Anthony Martial and Willian swap?

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Mcking

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Despite apparently having a poor season Martial has a better goals/assists to minutes ratio than Willian.

I like Willian but he isn’t going to suddenly come here and become far more productive with goals and assists. Martial can do if we get the best out of him, he’s young and can improve. Willian is at his peak.
Tbh, looking beyond goals/assists and potential, Martial doesn't have much on Willian. Martial would even do well to better Willian's level on the long run as he kind of lacks the workrate and attitude needed to be truly worldclass.
His lack of dynamism means he's easily shackled and more often than not, he looks disinterested and struggle to impose himself in games.
If you take a look at the best players, even when they or their team are having a bad game, they still harry and huzzle to get more involved and to avoid anonymosity which is the worst - unlike Martial.
Willian offers far more than goals and assists; he runs all day, he's one of the best at transistions, very good at set pieces, one of the best ball carriers, he hardly loses the ball even under immense pressure and he more often than not, exerts big influence on the game.
He might not be the superstar type, but I can't help but think he's the final missing piece in our attacking jigsaw - unless there's a similar but better player.
Willian is the type of players you need to win immediate titles, Martial is the type you use to try and build teams. But considering the fact we have a very good Sanchez and Lukaku for the positions Martial excel in but a non-existent right side, we would actually be smart to make this deal.
Ranging from speed, movement, workrate, crossing, a right wing threat, transistions and to a lesser extent, width, Willian will offer us most of the skillsets the team needs and solution a few problems.
 

NikSab

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So people want Martial to stick but neither does he want to be here neither is he hitting the heights for 2 years.

Martial FC supporters disgust me.
 

Yagami

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Yep, Martial will score 20 goals while Sarri successfully takes Chelsea to another trophyless season of pretty football like he has done his entire career.
Yep, because if you haven't won anything by 2018 then that's it. Pack your bags and retire already.
 

roonster09

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Yep, Martial will score 20 goals while Sarri successfully takes Chelsea to another trophyless season of pretty football like he has done his entire career.
Yeah, because he managed clubs that was expected to win trophies isn't it? Maybe ManUtd should sack Jose and hire Di Matteo as he won CL in 2012 and Jose's last was in 2010.

Well, I think Chelsea should hire Di Matteo as he is their only manager to win CL and while we are at it, Liverpool and Spurs should sack their managers and hire Rafael Benitez.
 

Kapardin

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Yeah, because he managed clubs that was expected to win trophies isn't it? Maybe ManUtd should sack Jose and hire Di Matteo as he won CL in 2012 and Jose's last was in 2010.

Well, I think Chelsea should hire Di Matteo as he is their only manager to win CL and while we are at it, Liverpool and Spurs should sack their managers and hire Rafael Benitez.
Guy was buckling under the pressure from Juve even when Napoli were in the title race and claiming "our aim is 87 points not the Scudetto". Pretty lame comments. Imagine what he will undergo under Roman and Granovskaia.:lol:

He's got too many fans for no big reason. If Chelsea appoint him, expect 4th-5th position with the occasional 5-0 wins. I suppose that suits some though.
 

Mcking

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Yep, Martial will score 20 goals while Sarri successfully takes Chelsea to another trophyless season of pretty football like he has done his entire career.
That's if he even gets chances to play. Sarri is notoriously known for not rotating and he hardly trusts young players.
If Martial don't hit the ground running under Sarri, I can confirm he won't even get many chances to cement his place.
 

roonster09

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Guy was buckling under the pressure from Juve even when Napoli were in the title race and claiming "our aim is 87 points not the Scudetto". Pretty lame comments. Imagine what he will undergo under Roman and Granovskaia.:lol:

He's got too many fans for no big reason. If Chelsea appoint him, expect 4th-5th position with the occasional 5-0 wins. I suppose that suits some though.
They have weak squad.

Did you hear what Jose said when he was in title race in 2013014 season? He came with little horse bs and did find under Roman.

Chelsea had 75 points in 34 games, City 71 in 33 and Liverpool 77 in 34 games, even then he said how they are little horse and should not be contesting for title. He then lose at home to Sunderland and dropped points at home against Norwich.

So there is your "winner" who played down expectation, it's funny Jose fans talk about these interviews when Jose is master of playing down expectations.
 

Kapardin

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They have weak squad.

Did you hear what Jose said when he was in title race in 2013014 season? He came with little horse bs and did find under Roman.

Chelsea had 75 points in 34 games, City 71 in 33 and Liverpool 77 in 34 games, even then he said how they are little horse and should not be contesting for title. He then lose at home to Sunderland and dropped points at home against Norwich.

So there is your "winner" who played down expectation, it's funny Jose fans talk about these interviews when Jose is master of playing down expectations.
Weak squad or not, Napoli were in the title race and Sarri basically buckled. Jose won the title the next season with Chelsea, so no point using "" to refer to him as a winner, because he actually is one. Apples and Oranges.

FYI, I am not a Jose fan boy. I like him, but I don't find him faultless for sure.

Anyway, let's see for ourselves if Sarri finally gets a major PL job.
 

roonster09

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Weak squad or not, Napoli were in the title race and Sarri basically buckled. Jose won the title the next season with Chelsea, so no point using "" to refer to him as a winner, because he actually is one. Apples and Oranges.

FYI, I am not a Jose fan boy. I like him, but I don't find him faultless for sure.

Anyway, let's see for ourselves if Sarri finally gets a major PL job.
You need to understand context before checking coach's wiki page for honours. Chelsea are a big team that spends big and expects to win trophies. Napoli on the other hand don't spend big money and are up against Juventus who are just winning machine. Napoli have 85 points from 36 games, that's a very good record for any top team.
 

Kapardin

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You need to understand context before checking coach's wiki page for honours. Chelsea are a big team that spends big and expects to win trophies. Napoli on the other hand don't spend big money and are up against Juventus who are just winning machine. Napoli have 85 points from 36 games, that's a very good record for any top team.
Same excuse being floated for Poch as well. Just because Poch and Sarri maximize resources doesn't excuse their bottling when they actually get there. Sarri's excuse when he dropped out of EL - "we want to win the league". When Juve showed signs of catching them - "87 points is our aim".

You can argue Jose made similar excuses for Sevilla loss. Yes, that's why we are criticising him. But overall, I'd back Jose over Sarri as a manager anyday. Sarri can't handle pressure for sure.

And you need to understand the difference between a true winner and an average manager before using "" to denote a multiple European cup and league winning manager and comparing him unfavorably to someone like Sarri. Honestly, is there a dispute that Jose is a winner to use "", 'cause I don't get that logic.
 

roonster09

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Same excuse being flouted for Poch as well. Just because Poch and Sarri maximize resources doesn't excuse their bottling when they actually get there. Sarri's excuse when he dropped out of EL - "we want to win the league". When Juve showed signs of catching them - "87 points is our aim".

You can argue Jose made similar excuses for Sevilla loss. Yes, that's why we are criticising him. But overall, I'd back Jose over Sarri as a manager anyday.

And you need to understand the difference between a true winner and an average manager before using "" to denote a mulitple European cup and league winning manager to someone like Sarri. Honestly, is there a dispute that Jose is a winner to use "", 'cause I don't get that logic.
When you manager big clubs, you win trophies. Luis Enrique won loads at Barca, Di Matteo won few and Rafael Benitez in 6 months won 2 trophies at Chelsea. Blanc won loads of trophies too, so will Kovac next season at Bayern.

The fact that they even got so many points should prove how good work Sarri did. All these "multiple league winner, Champions league winner", well Van Gaal was all that plus he took his National team to 3rd place in 2014 world cup. So what?

Spurs and Napoli have limited resources and they are doing well for that. If they sign for bigger clubs then they will have even bigger resources to win and compete. Luis Enrique all of a sudden didn't become "winner" when he joined Barca from Celta and Roma. He just had a better team and more resources to win. Same for any manager. right now Sarri is up against a club that has infinite resources compared to Napoli and very strong hold of Italian market. It's not easy to win the league. Like I said, context is very important before checking wiki and label someone as winner or bottler.
 

Kapardin

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When you manager big clubs, you win trophies. Luis Enrique won loads at Barca, Di Matteo won few and Rafael Benitez in 6 months won 2 trophies at Chelsea. Blanc won loads of trophies too, so will Kovac next season at Bayern.

The fact that they even got so many points should prove how good work Sarri did
. All these "multiple league winner, Champions league winner", well Van Gaal was all that plus he took his National team to 3rd place in 2014 world cup. So what?

Spurs and Napoli have limited resources and they are doing well for that. If they sign for bigger clubs then they will have even bigger resources to win and compete. Luis Enrique all of a sudden didn't become "winner" when he joined Barca from Celta and Roma. He just had a better team and more resources to win. Same for any manager. right now Sarri is up against a club that has infinite resources compared to Napoli and very strong hold of Italian market. It's not easy to win the league. Like I said, context is very important before checking wiki and label someone as winner or bottler.
Sarri has been around for 28 years. Either big clubs didn't fancy him until his recent stint with Napoli or he himself had no ambition. The managers you state got themselves big clubs fairly quickly in contrast.

Di Matteo was an outlier. Enrique managed a phenomenal Barca team with MSN at its' peak -- was unlikely not to win. Blanc again managed the best team in France by a country mile -- winning domestic trophies is guaranteed. Benitez is a genuinely good manager anyway.

van Gaal too was a genuine winner, we just hired him long after his expiration date.

For sure, if Sarri, Poch or Kovac managed MSN-Barca or PSG or even Bayern, they would likely win. Most anybody would. We are talking about Sarri and Chelsea though.

Anyway, all this is irrelevant. The point is, if Poch gets Spurs to top 4 and Sarri gets Napoli in EL/Top 4, then atleast a domestic trophy is possible if they are winners. That they haven't yet won suggests they lack something.
 

roonster09

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Sarri has been around for 28 years. Either big clubs didn't fancy him until his recent stint with Napoli or he himself had no ambition. The managers you state got themselves big clubs fairly quickly in contrast.

Di Matteo was an outlier. Enrique managed a phenomenal Barca team with MSN at its' peak -- was unlikely not to win. Blanc again managed the best team in France by a country mile -- winning domestic trophies is guaranteed. Benitez is a genuinely good manager anyway.

van Gaal too was a genuine winner, we just hired him long after his expiration date.

For sure, if Sarri, Poch or Kovac managed MSN-Barca or PSG or even Bayern, they would likely win. Most anybody would. We are talking about Sarri and Chelsea though.

Anyway, all this is irrelevant. The point is, if Poch gets Spurs to top 4 and Sarri gets Napoli in EL/Top 4, then atleast a domestic trophy is possible if they are winners. That they haven't yet won suggests they lack something.
Yeah, a guy who is managing at highest level and managed to win so many games for Napoli is not a winner. If only, winning few domestic titles in easy leagues makes someone winner. Someone should hire de Boer, he is a winner, won 4 league titles in a row and probably few more domestic trophies.

If only everyone judged whether coach is a winner or a bottler based on their wiki page without any context.

Funny how Valverde all of a sudden became winner too after bottling for years. Pellegrini who never won anything in Europe became winner when he started to manage ManCity.
 

Greck

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Yes, we need to strike a balance that's why we need to replace Valencia and Young right now. Matic and Sanchez have at least 3-4 years. The rest of the team and squad are relatively young and we have good youngsters coming through as well. And yes, we can afford to replace these key players because that's simply what we have to do if we want to keep competing. Martial clearly isn't working for us and he seems to have no desire to fight for a place - I'd rather we sell him and replace him with a more experienced player (Willan or otherwise) and then work in younger players like Gomes and Chong.
Even Madrid can't afford that. That's why they're pushing for FFP measures to help ease their rebuild. If we want experience we should look in the 26yr old range. That way we have some gap between the time of replacement of senior players. There are reports the club already told Jose he needs to sell to buy, whether it's true or not we don't have a bottomless pit of cash
 

Kapardin

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Yeah, a guy who is managing at highest level and managed to win so many games for Napoli is not a winner. If only, winning few domestic titles in easy leagues makes someone winner. Someone should hire de Boer, he is a winner, won 4 league titles in a row and probably few more domestic trophies.

If only everyone judged whether coach is a winner or a bottler based on their wiki page without any context.

Funny how Valverde all of a sudden became winner too after bottling for years. Pellegrini who never won anything in Europe became winner when he started to manage ManCity.
Skirting my point that winning trophies with middling clubs is more difficult than in weak leagues or those with one overwhelmingly dominant team which I made earlier.

Valverde took over a Barca team when Real were at their weakest. Atletico too had a slow start with Griezmann's bad form and lack of a killer striker (till they signed Costa). He certainly bottled in Europe to Roma, let us see what happens when Real get stronger.

Pellegrini? He won things before City as well.

Talking of wiki pages, seems like you didn't even check Jose's before saying he was a winner in "". Even his worst detractors don't use sarcasm to deny Jose is a winner. Comparing him to Poch or Sarri is laughable. Neither have the bottle to succeed at a club like Chelsea on present evidence.
 

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I think we should keep Martial and see how this whole José saga turns out this year. Another manager could fulfill his potential and we have yet to try him on the left and Sanchez on the right
 

roonster09

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Skirting my point that winning trophies with middling clubs is more difficult than in weak leagues or those with one overwhelmingly dominant team which I made earlier.

Valverde took over a Barca team when Real were at their weakest. Atletico too had a slow start with Griezmann's bad form and lack of a killer striker (till they signed Costa). He certainly bottled in Europe to Roma, let us see what happens when Real get stronger.

Pellegrini? He won things before City as well.

Talking of wiki pages, seems like you didn't even check Jose's before saying he was a winner in "". Even his worst detractors don't use sarcasm to deny Jose is a winner. Comparing him to Poch or Sarri is laughable. Neither have the bottle to succeed at a club like Chelsea on present evidence.
I don't have to check Jose's wiki page to know he has won lot of titles.

I said in Europe for Pelligrini, he won what some Intertoto cup? That makes him or made him winner before joining City?

So Valverde took over Barca at the right moment when Madrid were at their weakest? This was the Madrid team that won CL and La Liga last season and everyone's favourite for this season. Why stop just there, lets analyze Jose's career too,

he took over Chelsea when Manutd were at their weakest and Wenger started declining. Chelsea also blew everyone away with their spending.
He took over Inter during the scandal when Juventus were relegated and Inter were by far the best team in Italy.
He took over Madrid when they started to accumulate hottest talent in the world.
He took over Chelsea when league was in shambles with no SAF.

Go on and make excuses.

Saying X coach is a winner or a bottler is just laughable, so if Jose starts to manage Sunderland and fails to win, will he be bottler? What about Frank de Boer, is he a winner for winning 4 league titles or a bottler for not winning a game in PL?

You need to watch the teams to know how good some managers have done, not just honours list in wiki page.

Clubs that has stronger squad and spends big usually wins. That's how Chelsea won before, Madrid and Barca wins La Liga, Bayern wins Bundesliga, Juventus wins Serie Aand PSG won french league. There are exceptions like Monaco, Atletico and Leicester but that's how it is.
 

MUFC OK

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Simply no, this would be a disasterous deal for united and one that Chelsea would be licking their lips at. Losing a 22 yo potentially World Class player for a 30 year old who despite being good, will never be that, is a terrible deal for the club in the mid to long term and even arguably the short term too. Would make me physically sick seeing AM tear it up as a striker for Chelsea, surely we can't be that stupid.
 

Kapardin

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I don't have to check Jose's wiki page to know he has won lot of titles.

I said in Europe for Pelligrini, he won what some Intertoto cup? That makes him or made him winner before joining City?
Tbh, City had Mancini's core and Pellegrini was a good manager. Hardly comparable to Sarri and the situation at Chelsea with 5 other competitive teams.

So Valverde took over Barca at the right moment when Madrid were at their weakest? This was the Madrid team that won CL and La Liga last season and everyone's favourite for this season.
And as everyone and his dog knows, Madrid have greatly declined this season compared to the last. Their old guard are on their last legs.

Why stop just there, lets analyze Jose's career too,
Sure, why not.

he took over Chelsea when Manutd were at their weakest and Wenger started declining. Chelsea also blew everyone away with their spending.
He took over Inter during the scandal when Juventus were relegated and Inter were by far the best team in Italy.
He took over Madrid when they started to accumulate hottest talent in the world.
He took over Chelsea when league was in shambles with no SAF.
He also won the CL with Porto and was clearly a master tactician. He also won against Pep's Barca who were certainly levels above his Inter team. He was able to win the league against Pep's Barca as well with Real.

Revisionism about Real btw. They were up against the best Barca team in the world and Jose had his task cut out for him. Yet he won a league. While Sarri makes excuses.

But let's ignore the facts, shall we?

Saying X coach is a winner or a bottler is just laughable, so if Jose starts to manage Sunderland and fails to win, will he be bottler? What about Frank de Boer, is he a winner for winning 4 league titles or a bottler for not winning a game in PL?
Napoli and Spurs aren't at Sunderland's level. Heck for that matter, Wigan have won an FA Cup, but Poch or Sarri are yet to win domestic trophies.:lol:

You need to watch the teams to know how good some managers have done, not just honours list in wiki page.
And you need to start giving top class managers like Jose some credit rather than waffling on about how some lower level managers are better.

Clubs that has stronger squad and spends big usually wins. That's how Chelsea won before, Madrid and Barca wins La Liga, Bayern wins Bundesliga, Juventus wins Serie Aand PSG won french league. There are exceptions like Monaco, Atletico and Leicester but that's how it is.
Maybe Ligue 1 is a difficult place for any team other than PSG to win domestic cups, but certainly not the other leagues. Bayern and Juve have been beaten in the German Cup and Coppa Italia by other managers.

The simple point is this - Sarri and Poch have consistently failed to win trophies. This doesn't make them bad managers - I'd rank them in the third tier below Jardim, Tuchel etc who have won things and are in 2nd tier - below Mourinho, Guardiola, etc who are at the top. And 3rd tier ain't enough for clubs like United or Chelsea.
 

roonster09

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long post.
Sigh. You really don't know any other way to rate coaches, do you?

Just big up Jose's achievements and make endless excuses for others. Valverde was up against back to back CL winners and La Liga winners too, but hey lets ignore that and make up few more excuses.

Btw coming to Sarri.

2013-14: Napoli finished 3rd, 24 points behind Juventus
2014-15: Napoli finished 5th behind Juvemtus, Roma, Lazio, Fiorentina and 24 points behind Juvenuts.

Sarri was appointed in 2015:
2015-16: Napoli finished 2nd with 82 points and 9 points behind Juventus
2016-17: Napoli finished 3rd with 86 points and 5 points behind Juventus
2017-18: Napoli are in 2nd place with 85 points and 6 points behind Juventus.

And this is the side that lost their best player and top scorer (Higuain) to Juventus. They signed Milik to replace him and he was out injured after just a month or 2 and was out for the season.
Sarri then played Mertens as CF and since then Mertens never looked back scoring for fun.

That's called progress and that itself shows how good Sarri is for Napoli, this is after losing their best player and scorer. Winning a tin pot cup here and there won't make anyone winner or bottler. You have to be blind not to see the work of Sarri. All this is by playing very dominant style too.

If only football was such a black and white game where win = winner, lose = bottler.
 

Trizy

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You need to watch the teams to know how good some managers have done, not just honours list in wiki page.
.
That's not a true measure of skill though, is it? Look at the average at best managers Barcelona have had since Pep. One of them won a treble. All average or shite and about to be found out when they move on.

Zidane is another. He's not shown enough tactically to prove he's a great manager yet. To be he just looks to be a good motivator, who got landed with the worlds best squad while other top teams had declined (Bayern, Barcelona, England's teams).

Celtic with Rodgers.

Anyone with PSG, Bayern and to a lesser extent Juventus.
 

devil in me

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Wilian would be brilliant for us. We know what we'd be getting from him and there is a pre-established relationship with Mourinho.

We'd probably get 2 years of his peak and Martial's quality isn't as rare as some would suggest. I'd be gutted to see Martial go but I wouldn't be as bothered if we get a player of Wilian's calibre in a much needed position.
This.
 

Kapardin

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Sigh. You really don't know any other way to rate coaches, do you?

Just big up Jose's achievements and make endless excuses for others. Valverde was up against back to back CL winners and La Liga winners too, but hey lets ignore that and make up few more excuses.
Ignore vast chunks of your own revisionism and come back with replies like "you don't know other way to rate coaches". Sorry, I don't consider coaches who don't win even domestic cups as good enough even if they play decent football.

Take one look at the Real thread and you will see even Real fans admitting their team has declined this season. But hey, you won't admit that, will you?

And you talk as though I am one of those blind Jose supporters. I am furious with him for Sevilla and the Martial situation (though not a Martial fanboy either). But I know when to give him his due credit rather than bigging up Poch or Sarri over him.:lol:

Btw coming to Sarri.

2013-14: Napoli finished 3rd, 24 points behind Juventus
2014-15: Napoli finished 5th behind Juvemtus, Roma, Lazio, Fiorentina and 24 points behind Juvenuts.

Sarri was appointed in 2015:
2015-16: Napoli finished 2nd with 82 points and 9 points behind Juventus
2016-17: Napoli finished 3rd with 86 points and 5 points behind Juventus
2017-18: Napoli are in 2nd place with 85 points and 6 points behind Juventu
s.

And this is the side that lost their best player and top scorer (Higuain) to Juventus. They signed Milik to replace him and he was out injured after just a month or 2 and was out for the season.
Sarri then played Mertens as CF and since then Mertens never looked back scoring for fun.

That's called progress and that itself shows how good Sarri is for Napoli, this is after losing their best player and scorer. Winning a tin pot cup here and there won't make anyone winner or bottler. You have to be blind not to see the work of Sarri. All this is by playing very dominant style too.

If only football was such a black and white game where win = winner, lose = bottler.
Yep, makes him a decent manager like Poch. Maximizes resources. And like Poch hehasn't even won a domestic trophy once he has actually got to that level and thus should not be considered for Chelsea or United. But let Chelsea hire him, no complaints of course.

Its' like saying Poch should only be praised for developing Kane and maximizing resources with the Spurs squad and should not be criticized if he fails to win a trophy with Kane, Eriksen and co in his squad. The idea is, once you get there, you must go the whole way, or you are a nearly man which is good but not enough. The Napoli squad is not exactly poverty and Sarri has only managed to be the nearly man despite his good work with them.
 

roonster09

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That's not a true measure of skill though, is it? Look at the average at best managers Barcelona have had since Pep. One of them won a treble. All average or shite and about to be found out when they move on.

Zidane is another. He's not shown enough tactically to prove he's a great manager yet. To be he just looks to be a good motivator, who got landed with the worlds best squad while other top teams had declined (Bayern, Barcelona, England's teams).

Celtic with Rodgers.

Anyone with PSG, Bayern and to a lesser extent Juventus.
Not sure whether you are agreeing or not as it's more or less what I said. These managers honours list if very much full but you need to understand the context to rate the coach, not just trophies. So many managers have won few trophies but were never impressive, Luis Enrique was one of them.
 

Trizy

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Not sure whether you are agreeing or not as it's more or less what I said. These managers honours list if very much full but you need to understand the context to rate the coach, not just trophies. So many managers have won few trophies but were never impressive, Luis Enrique was one of them.
Funnily enough (haven't had my coffee yet) I agreed with your post while trying to disagree with you. I misread the part I quoted :lol:.

So ya, I agree 100%
 

roonster09

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Ignore vast chunks of your own revisionism and come back with replies like "you don't know other way to rate coaches". Sorry, I don't consider coaches who don't win even domestic cups as good enough even if they play decent football.

Take one look at the Real thread and you will see even Real fans admitting their team has declined this season. But hey, you won't admit that, will you?

And you talk as though I am one of those blind Jose supporters. I am furious with him for Sevilla and the Martial situation (though not a Martial fanboy either). But I know when to give him his due credit rather than bigging up Poch or Sarri over him.:lol:



Yep, makes him a decent manager like Poch. And like Poch He hasn't even won a domestic trophy and thus should not be considered for Chelsea or United. But let Chelsea hire him, no complaints of course.
I ignored your list of excuses for other managers and bigging up Jose when you can make similar excuses for Jose.

Take a look at Madrid thread? Why not, check the posts at the start of the season, not now when everyone changed their arguments to suit what is going on now.

btw, look at Jose thread too, ManUtd fans call him coward and shit and many of them wants him out too.

Eh? So praising Sarri and Poch means playing down Jose? This is the problem with Jose fan boys. Any praise for any other managers like Sarri or Poch means they gets so defensive. There are more way to judge a manager, for jose fan boys it's just trophies. FYI, I have given credit to Jose and unlike you I can praise other managers too for their work.

Here is one more example, one of the best in the business Allegri, he won feck all before managing Milan where he won league, then lost Ibra and Thiago Silva so didn't win anything. He moved to Juventus and he has won everything there is to win multiple times except CL.

Yeah, Chelsea should hire Van Gaal or Di Matteo, serial winners and winning mentality :lol:
 

Kapardin

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I ignored your list of excuses for other managers and bigging up Jose when you can make similar excuses for Jose.
This makes no sense whatsover.

Eh? So praising Sarri and Poch means playing down Jose? This is the problem with Jose fan boys. Any praise for any other managers like Sarri or Poch means they gets so defensive. There are more way to judge a manager, for jose fan boys it's just trophies. FYI, I have given credit to Jose and unlike you I can praise other managers too for their work.
The idea that Sarri or Poch can just waltz in and do a better job than Jose at Chelsea or United is what I am criticizing. Napoli and Spurs are their level at the moment and neither of them have shown the aptitude for managing a pressure cooker club like Chelsea.

Ignoring the fact I have criticized Jose a lot, still calling me a fanboy. But ok. Better than being fanboys of third tier managers.:)

Here is one more example, one of the best in the business Allegri, he won feck all before managing Milan where he won league, then lost Ibra and Thiago Silva so didn't win anything. He moved to Juventus and he has won everything there is to win multiple times except CL.
Erm, every manager fails before he eventually succeeds. Allegri did not take 28 years to make it to a decent sized club, and he did not remain trophyless after that.

Yeah, Chelsea should hire Van Gaal or Di Matteo, serial winners and winning mentality :lol:
Already addressed van Gaal and Di Matteo but keep ignoring it.
 

roonster09

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This makes no sense whatsover.
So its like reading your posts?


The idea that Sarri or Poch can just waltz in and do a better job than Jose at Chelsea or United is what I am criticizing. Napoli and Spurs are their level at the moment and neither of them have shown the aptitude for managing a pressure cooker club like Chelsea.

Ignoring the fact I have criticized Jose a lot, still calling me a fanboy. But ok.
Not sure where you got that from, this is what I called as "defensive mentality". Anyone praising any other coach, Jose fans starts with their BS. I said Sarri did a very good job at Napoli, not a word on how he will do better than Jose at Chelsea and all that.

Easy to add "at the moment". It's laughable to even say that's their level when they have showed so much potential in the clubs they have taken over and improving almost every aspect of the team.


Erm, every manager fails before he eventually succeeds. Allegri did not take 28 years to make it to a decent sized club, and he did not remain trophyless after that.
yeah, if only everyone had the same career path and same chances. Sarri wasn't a footballer, he was a banker and entered very late into coaching. It's like criticizing Jose for not winning Treble in his first season as Pep did it, or Zidane won 2 CLs already in his career and Jose took years to win his second. Like I said, you missed context from the very beginning and now just typing randomly whatever comes to your mind.

Not even sure where you got this "28 years" from, according to his profile he started to manage armature club in 1999 or 2000.


Already addressed van Gaal and Di Matteo but keep ignoring it.
You addressed nothing, they are winners and should be hired by biggest clubs.
 

roonster09

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Funnily enough (haven't had my coffee yet) I agreed with your post while trying to disagree with you. I misread the part I quoted :lol:.

So ya, I agree 100%
:D Glad we are on the same page then.
 

Kapardin

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So its like reading your posts?
Funny, it was your post which made no sense.

Not sure where you got that from, this is what I called as "defensive mentality". Anyone praising any other coach, Jose fans starts with their BS.
As I said before, what you think of others' opinions really is not gospel. Neither am I a Jose fan, I am actually on the fence regarding his third season here.

I said Sarri did a very good job at Napoli, not a word on how he will do better than Jose at Chelsea and all that.
And what Sarri has done at Napoli is not enough to say he is a top manager who will win loads at Chelsea or United. Simple as that. Its not about giving someone 500 million and then saying, "yeah you can win now". Winning is a special mentality which both Sarri and Poch haven't demonstrated yet.

Easy to add "at the moment". It's laughable to even say that's their level when they have showed so much potential in the clubs they have taken over and improving almost every aspect of the team.
Its' easy to add "at the moment" because its' the truth. Every time they come close to a trophy, they bottle it.

OK, give Poch credit for developing Kane, and getting the best out of Eriksen, Alli, etc. Now, you agree he has a squad capable of winning atleast the FA Cup? So basically, the development part is over, and now we have to judge if he can deliver with the squad. Then why can't he do that? So basically, a guy who does all the hard work and yet cannot go that final distance has not yet shown he is capable of handling pressure at a top club like United or Chelsea. Maybe a one club league like Bundesliga or Ligue 1 but even at Bayern or PSG, there is a pressure now to win the CL.


yeah, if only everyone had the same career path and same chances. Sarri wasn't a footballer, he was a banker and entered very late into coaching. It's like criticizing Jose for not winning Treble in his first season as Pep did it, or Zidane won 2 CLs already in his career and Jose took years to win his second. Like I said, you missed context from the very beginning and now just typing randomly whatever comes to your mind.
Sarri spent 28 years, doesn't matter how late he came into coaching. And he has more than enough resources at Napoli to win a domestic cup. He gets credit for maximizing resource, but ultimately Top 4 or Top 2 means feck all without a trophy, and that squad is capable of it.

Jardim won the league with Monaco and got the best out of his squad. Now he is a genuine winner as well as builder. Poch and Sarri are builders but not winners.

You addressed nothing, they are winners and should be hired by biggest clubs.
LOL, thankfully you don't run the biggest clubs. Or rather, better our rivals have your mentality and hire them. No complaints from me as I said.
 

Von Mistelroum

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Could've simplified this down to, "doesn't run around or look happy enough."

People complain about his tracking back, but I'm fairly sure there haven't been many instances at all where him not tracking back has been big problem, or where Mourinho has actually complained about it. Just last game he made a pretty important tackle in our box on Knockhaert. His impact as a sub definitely isn't an issue either. As far as I'm aware, he's been our best substitute this season, output-wise.
I don't care if he looks happy. He has a naturally miserable face so it's not an issue. You can see by his body language and lack of commitment as soon as things don't go his way that his heart isn't in it. That, or he's just a coward with no stomach for a fight which would mean that he'd be the same anywhere.
 

roonster09

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And what Sarri has done at Napoli is not enough to say he is a top manager who will win loads at Chelsea or United. Simple as that.
How do you know that? He took Napoli who were 20 plus points behind Juventus to single digit and that too after losing their best player. Like I said, watch or read about the coach instead of just checking honours list. Funnily enough, this is the only defense for Jose fans for everything.

Its' easy to add "at the moment" because its' the truth. Every time they come close to a trophy, they bottle it.

OK, give Poch credit for developing Kane, and getting the best out of Eriksen, Alli, etc. Now, you agree he has a squad capable of winning atleast the FA Cup? So basically, the development part is over, and now we have to judge if he can deliver with the squad. Then why can't he do that? So basically, a guy who does all the hard work and yet cannot go that final distance has not yet shown he is capable of handling pressure at a top club like United or Chelsea. Maybe a one club league like Bundesliga or Ligue 1 but even at Bayern or PSG, there is a pressure now to win the CL.
Again bottling argument. Sigh. Frank de Boer, Rodgers, Martinez, Di Matteo is the way to go then, they are all proper winners.



Sarri spent 28 years, doesn't matter how late he came into coaching. And he has more than enough resources at Napoli to win a domestic cup.
Again how is it 28 years when he was banker in 1999? :lol: This is tiresome, you have no clue on what went on, just use the numbers and spout bs. He got a break very late in his career and he is doing very good job in making full use of it.


LOL, thankfully you don't run the biggest clubs. Or rather, better our rivals have your mentality and hire them. No complaints from me as I said.
Of course, but thank fully you don't too otherwise you might end up hiring Lippi looking at his honours list in Wiki page.
 

Jeffthered

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Willian is a super player, and would like him at the club. But £40m for a player nearly 30 years of age... and releasing a 22 year old with a lot of potential. Not sure about that. Why not get more out of Martial???
 

JPRouve

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Sarri took an average Serie B team that was on the verge of relegation to the top third of league in one season, then he led them to promotion and finally he maintained them. That is worth a lot of trophies.
 

Silver

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Even Madrid can't afford that. That's why they're pushing for FFP measures to help ease their rebuild.
Well, firstly, we have far more financial clout that Real Madrid at the moment. Regardless, you're talking as if we need an immediate overhaul of all our older players which is not the case as has been stated.

If we want experience we should look in the 26yr old range.
It's not just about a number is it? Which 26 year olds are available in the premier league that have the ability and the know how to win the league? Not many. Yes, we don't have bottomless pit of cash but you're also assuming that we're just going to buy to replace. We have Rashford who's competing with Martial and that's probably stunting his growth. We also have some great youth prospects in Gomes, Chong, and also Peirera coming back from loan. I'd rather we bring an older experienced player who can help bring us success in the short term and also allow more chances for our homegrown talent to grow in to the team instead of keeping a player who doesn't seem motivated to play for us or spend millions of pounds on 26 year olds who have no proven winning history and might end up preventing our youth players from realizing their potential.
 

roonster09

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Sarri took an average Serie B team that was on the verge of relegation to the top third of league in one season, then he led them to promotion and finally he maintened them. That is worth a lot of trophies.
Who cares though. He didn't win domestic cup so Martinez > Sarri, at least by @Kapardin logic.

Thats the only way to judge, at least a domestic trophy.
 
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