Anthony Martial and Willian swap?

[haram]

No we should support the club and watch out for its best interests?

Sometimes fans think they know too much.

 

[horsechoker]

I like Willian but selling Martial to Chelsea would be idiotic, I think he could be as good as Hazard and we'd be giving them a Hazard replacement.

 

[haram]

Any swap deal would include cash alongside Willian as well. If they are offering 40 million+ as well it's going to become difficult to keep him if he wants to leave. That would solve our RW and fund a move for a defender.

 

[Paxi]

No we should support the club and watch out for its best interests?

So just sack him then, since he's not in our best interests.

Seeing as that wont happen, the next best thing is to hope he can get the players he wants to challange for league and champions league.

 

[Bwuk]

In which world is Martial better than Willian?

Despite apparently having a poor season Martial has a better goals/assists to minutes ratio than Willian.

I like Willian but he isn’t going to suddenly come here and become far more productive with goals and assists. Martial can do if we get the best out of him, he’s young and can improve. Willian is at his peak.

 

[haram]

Despite apparently having a poor season Martial has a better goals/assists to minutes ratio than Willian.

Is this all it comes down to then? They are different types of players. Willian offers more than just goals and assists.

 

[Brwned]

Mourinho said it before - that he had no issues selling to other domestic rivals. In fact, he suggested; it should be done more frequently. The article also suggests that: Woody will back in whatever plans he has. This could actually happen imo.

Pure hubris. His judgment of Martial's ability and potential is so bulletproof that he can't see the possibility of him developing into an elite player elsewhere. Swapping him for William would be one of the most embarrassing decisions this club has made in years.

 

[Bwuk]

Is this all it comes down to then? They are different types of players. Willian offers more than just goals and assists.

No it’s not, but considering we’ve lacked a reliable goal scorer bar Lukaku this season I don’t really think adding another player who isn’t going to improve that will help, especially at the expense of someone who potentially can.

If we are getting another winger/forward in it has to be someone who can get us 15+ goals a season, otherwise we are praying relying heavily on Lukaku and hoping Sanchez improves.

 

[Castia]

I prefer Martial honestly but the fact we have 2 quality LW in Rashford and Alexis is kinda tempting, Willian would be great for us on the right side.

I’d do it.

 

[haram]

No it’s not, but considering we’ve lacked a reliable goal scorer bar Lukaku this season I don’t really think adding another player who isn’t going to improve that will help, especially at the expense of someone who potentially can.

If we are getting another winger/forward in it has to be someone who can get us 15+ goals a season, otherwise we are praying relying heavily on Lukaku and hoping Sanchez improves.

Sanchez will replace Martial's output. Willian can help us create more goals, help us gain more control, help us improve our transitions. Improve our chance creation next season and Lukaku could get 10 more goals.

 

[Bwuk]

Sanchez will replace Martial's output. Willian can help us create more goals, help us gain more control, help us improve our transitions.

Will he though? He hasn’t exactly set the world on fire.

Willian isn’t going to help us create/score more than Martial is based off this season.

We are slow to transition due to how we’re set up, not our personnel.

 

[duffer]

Chuck in De Gea and you've got a deal.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Will he though? He hasn’t exactly set the world on fire.

He’s been here for what? 12 games? And has been the best player on the park in our two biggest games during that period.

You’re a tough one to please for a January signing.

 

[haram]

Will he though? He hasn’t exactly set the world on fire.

Willian isn’t going to help us create/score more than Martial is based off this season.

We are slow to transition due to how we’re set up, not our personnel.

Yes, Sanchez will. Martial is being overrated again. Willian will help us create chances. He will help us with transitions. He will help us gain more control of games by being a genuine RW. He can stretch defences, he can come inside.

Our transitions are affected by our play in deeper areas. Willian is good at transitioning play.

 

[Paxi]

Pure hubris. His judgment of Martial's ability and potential is so bulletproof that he can't see the possibility of him developing into an elite player elsewhere. Swapping him for William would be one of the most embarrassing decisions this club has made in years.

Whats Mourinho got to do with this? Martial got offered an extension, yet he wants to leave. So isn't it a bit of a hyperbole, in saying Martial for Willian would one of the most embarrassing decisions we made in years? We would be getting a player who Mourinho wants to work with and vice versa whilst getting rid of a player who's got two years on his contract.

Oh and I don't really know what Mourinho thinks of Martial but I'm sure he's more in the know than most people seeing as he's his manager.

 

[bebeanderson]

Are people here really thinking it would be a straight swap? Lmao..

 

[Von Mistelroum]

I don't understand this thread if I'm honest. Martial isn't close to the top level of youngster out there. He's stagnated and doesn't look bothered either. Willian is a much better player who will give his all and we'd get money purely because he's 29 which could go towards bringing in other players who actually put in the effort and care enough. Sounds fine to me.

When Martial first signed I was over the moon. He had looked amazing at Monaco and was clearly blessed with a huge talent. It became clear a couple of seasons ago that he's not going to fulfill that talent anytime soon though and certainly not here as his heart clearly isn't in it. He could go and do great at Chelsea but so what? He wouldn't have done that here I'm fairly sure because if he was going to then he wouldn't be meandering back when we need him to help defend. He wouldn't be looking like he just can't really be bothered when he comes on to change things up in a game.

I'd be happy with the deal purely for the fact that Martial is going nowhere here and seems completely devoid of motivation. Get the player who wants to come and play. Regardless of age. Then use the cash to help fund a new full back.

Edit: just to add that Willian plays in a position we need to fill, while Martial plays in a position we have covered and then some.

 

[Silas]

I don't understand this thread if I'm honest. Martial isn't close to the top level of youngster out there. He's stagnated and doesn't look bothered either. Willian is a much better player who will give his all and we'd get money purely because he's 29 which could go towards bringing in other players who actually put in the effort and care enough. Sounds fine to me.

When Martial first signed I was over the moon. He had looked amazing at Monaco and was clearly blessed with a huge talent. It became clear a couple of seasons ago that he's not going to fulfill that talent anytime soon though and certainly not here as his heart clearly isn't in it. He could go and do great at Chelsea but so what? He wouldn't have done that here I'm fairly sure because if he was going to then he wouldn't be meandering back when we need him to help defend. He wouldn't be looking like he just can't really be bothered when he comes on to change things up in a game.

I'd be happy with the deal purely for the fact that Martial is going nowhere here and seems completely devoid of motivation. Get the player who wants to come and play. Regardless of age. Then use the cash to help fund a new full back.

Edit: just to add that Willian plays in a position we need to fill, while Martial plays in a position we have covered and then some.

Could've simplified this down to, "doesn't run around or look happy enough."

People complain about his tracking back, but I'm fairly sure there haven't been many instances at all where him not tracking back has been big problem, or where Mourinho has actually complained about it. Just last game he made a pretty important tackle in our box on Knockhaert. His impact as a sub definitely isn't an issue either. As far as I'm aware, he's been our best substitute this season, output-wise.

 

[haram]

Could've simplified this down to, "doesn't run around or look happy enough."

People complain about his tracking back, but I'm fairly sure there haven't been many instances at all where him not tracking back has been big problem, or where Mourinho has actually complained about it. Just last game he made a pretty important tackle in our box on Knockhaert. His impact as a sub definitely isn't an issue either. As far as I'm aware, he's been our best substitute this season, output-wise.

Work rate is not just about defending, you can have work rate in an attacking sense as well. Martial does lack that.

 

[Devil may care]

In which world is Martial better than Willian?

The one where he's already scored as many PL goals in half as many games as Willian, he's a better dribbler, a better passer and has the ability to produce some magic. Willian is a solid winger who works very hard, kinda like Lingard, I know you will probably scoff at the comparison as well but this season Lingard has been the better player, has produced more and unlike Willian wont be 30 when the season starts, Mourinho's love of Lingard over Rashford and Martial is down to him having the same kind of dog soldier mentality and work ethic as Willian, where as Martial and Rashford have looked fed up with their lot at times. I'm not going to get into another Mourinho debate but if he must get rid of Martial I'd like to see us aim higher, and more long term than a run of the mill wide man like Willian who'll be 30 and has never even scored double figures in the PL.

 

[Silas]

Work rate is not just about defending, you can have work rate in an attacking sense as well. Martial does lack that.

Yeah, I was specifically addressing his issues with his defence. In attack, I'd say it's more an issue with movement than workrate, although they are related. I don't really get the feeling that he can't be arsed to attack, considering how often he drops deep to pick up the ball and linkup with Pogba. It's more like he doesn't want/like to make runs specifically just to stretch the play rather than get him into a good position to score or assist. I'd say that's a product of him being closer to a striker than winger.

 

[haram]

Yeah, I was specifically addressing his issues with his defence. In attack, I'd say it's more an issue with movement than workrate, although they are related. I don't really get the feeling that he can't be arsed to attack, considering how often he drops deep to pick up the ball and linkup with Pogba. It's more like he doesn't want/like to make runs specifically just to stretch the play rather than get him into a good position to score or assist. I'd say that's a product of him being closer to a striker than winger.

He likes to play with the ball when attacking. His movement without it really isn't great, which is more of a problem than the defending stuff. I dont think the defending stuff is a problem.

 

[Frank Grimes]

I really like Willian and think Martial is a bit hyped up but this would be a dreadful deal for United(if it was a straight swap).

 

[Silas]

He likes to play with the ball when attacking. His movement without it really isn't great, which is more of a problem than the defending stuff. I dont think the defending stuff is a problem.

We're more or less in agreement.

 

[AR87]

He likes to play with the ball when attacking. His movement without it really isn't great, which is more of a problem than the defending stuff. I dont think the defending stuff is a problem.

I think Martial, Mata, Sanchez and at times Rashford have this issue which I like to call a "hero complex". They don't trust the CMs to find them if/when they make runs in behind and are easily frustrated if it doesn't happen after a few instances.

Rather than continuing to run in behind, a necessity against the deep lying defenses we have struggled with more than anything this season, they check towards the ball and drift inside. Essentially they become like moths to the flame with the ball in this instance being the flame. This results in us ending up extremely congested in certain areas and makes us very stagnant.

We can argue that Mourinho should coach this out of them, but we know he likes his attackers to have freedom to improvise on a whim. There are advantages to that, but this is one of the downsides which is compounded by the tendencies of our "wingers" who show they're playing often out of their comfort zone when they get frustrated and start to drift towards the ball instead of stretching defenses wide and in behind.

 

[Listar]

Are we certain that Mourinho don't rate Martial? I think he does and he has started in front of Rashford in our second half of the campaign if he was not injured. I always think that Sanchez arrival is more of a threat to Lingard at the no 10 role.

 

[Green_Red]

For Hazard? Yes.

Willian? No way Jose!

 

[VanHaal'sRedArmy]

Chuck in De Gea and you've got a deal.

Sure thing. <prints 'De Gea' on the back of Romero's jersey>
... and done.

 

[RedPnutz]

I believe we have offered Martial a new deal and Mourinho has said he wants to keep Martial but it the PLAYER himself that is currently refusing.

But Mourinho gets blamed for somehow wanting to kick Martial out of the club.

Believe this thread was a presenting a hypothetical scenario given supposed Chelsea interest in Martial.

But the posters here are working themselves into a frenzy. Making up bullshit point like Mourinho will kick out Martial for older Willian and that Mourinho is brainless to consider this swap.

In the first place, who said Mourinho is considering this swap? All in the fervent imagination of posters. Anything to bash the manager with.

 

[NK86]

The problem is, we are not Real. And we never will be. We can't have the same transfer policy as them for various reasons.

I know it has been disastrous for Chelsea, but I feel Willian is also a key player for Chelsea. So losing him to us will also hurt Chelsea.

Also, hypothetically speaking, if Martial is a success at Chelsea next season, then it's reasonable to assume that he will be a successful player at most clubs. Why sell him in the first place? If he hasn't got Jose's backing, then I'm fine with him leaving as I know there isn't much wd can do about it. Yes it could be another Salah, KdB situation but if you rate him that highly, then - it's already going to be. What I'm saying is; at least get a player that Jose likes in return, instead of being left with a wad of cash, that we might spend on Pulisic who might be another dud from Dortmund.

I don't want Martial sold. Let me clear that first. I think he will be a huge success wherever he goes. Selling him to a PL rival should never happen. If he does want to leave, he should be sold outside the PL.

 

[beingshe7don]

What we should do perhaps is send Rashford out on loan to Dortmund. Let Martial and Sanchez compete for the left wing and buy Willian to compete with Mata and Lingard for the RW. That would make everyone happy.

Although, if Martial really wants to leave, I would use him in a deal to get Pulisic to United. He'll definitely be a superstar in the future. The guy is already at Martial's level at the age of 19. I would like to see him in the No. 10 shirt.

 

[Greck]

God no. Don't let Mourinho recreate his Inter team where the team wins and has nowhere to go but down after. We could essentially have Matic, Sanchez, Young, Valencia, Willian all needing world class replacements within such a short span. Carrick's replacement is looking to cost 80mil and replacing Zlatan cost however much we paid for Lukaku.

Maybe he wants to make it up to Chelsea for selling KDB

 

[haram]

God no. Don't let Mourinho recreate his Inter team where the team wins and has nowhere to go but down after. We could essentially have Matic, Sanchez, Young, Valencia, Willian all needing world class replacements within such a short span. Carrick's replacement is looking to cost 80mil and replacing Zlatan cost however much we paid for Lukaku.

Maybe he wants to make it up to Chelsea for selling KDB

It’s as if Young and Valencia might not be replaced this summer and that he hasn’t signed Bailly, Pogba, Lukaku and Lindelof already.

 

[Greck]

It’s as if Young and Valencia might not be replaced this summer and that he hasn’t signed Bailly, Pogba, Lukaku and Lindelof already.

It's as if I didn't already factor Young and Valencia's replacement within the short span I referred to

 

[haram]

It's as if I didn't already factor Young and Valencia's replacement within the short span I referred to

Still doesn’t mean this side will be like the Inter one. You are being dramatic and negative as usual. You’re acting like he is the one that purchased Young and Valencia. He has to replace them.

 

[Amadaeus]

It would give our team a better balance. I would do it if we implement a buy back clause. Willian is the better player and what we need at the moment in this team. Martial has the potential and I believe three or two years at a club with regular football will make him worth £100m.

 

[Greck]

Still doesn’t mean this side will be like the Inter one. You are being dramatic and negative as usual. You’re acting like he is the one that purchased Young and Valencia. He has to replace them.

On the contrary you're the one being overly defensive for Jose as usual, hence why the point has flown over your head. The point here is we should strike a balance between veterans and younger players because we can't afford to replace so many key players within a short period. The market is too crazy for that.

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

The deal would significantly improve our first 11 and provide cash for our CM and FB signings, while doing nothing for Chelsea.

No way Chelsea would even consider this.

 

[Silver]

On the contrary you're the one being overly defensive for Jose as usual, hence why the point has flown over your head. The point here is we should strike a balance between veterans and younger players because we can't afford to replace so many key players within a short period. The market is too crazy for that.

Yes, we need to strike a balance that's why we need to replace Valencia and Young right now. Matic and Sanchez have at least 3-4 years. The rest of the team and squad are relatively young and we have good youngsters coming through as well. And yes, we can afford to replace these key players because that's simply what we have to do if we want to keep competing. Martial clearly isn't working for us and he seems to have no desire to fight for a place - I'd rather we sell him and replace him with a more experienced player (Willan or otherwise) and then work in younger players like Gomes and Chong.

 

[theralyst]

I'd do it. Willian is a better player and Martial hasn't shown any significant improvement in his time here. I don't think we're losing a future world beater in Martial.