Anthony Martial and Willian swap?

[Rajma]

I was thinking this was a good idea, but I'm still not a fan of Jose.

Fair play, but I'm willing to bet correlation was huge between Jose ins and those wanting (don't minding) this deal to materialise.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Christ. The state of some of the posts in here. There was a time when Willian over a sulking, unproductive Martial would not have been insane. A motivated, in-form Martial is clearly a better bet. Neither saying it was a good move nor saying it was not make you a footballing genius.

Bang on @Still ill.

I'm proud of my 3 posts in here, which are clearly right down the middle regarding Martial, appreciating his immense talent but also frustrated by his form. Looking at him right now, it's absolutely unimaginable that he's produced some of the crap he has during spells these past few years. I've permanently maintained my stance on Martial, just as with other supremely talented player like Sanchez, they have the ability to pick themselves and only have themselves to blame for ever spending spells out on the sidelines. Everyone would have you believe that Mourinho despised Martial, but I'm willing to bet he's the first name on his teamsheet now, and all of the credit for that goes to the player for making it so.

 

[Posh Red]

So, our last game before Sanchez's arrival was Burnley away. We won that 1-0 with Martial scoring the winner.

After Sanchez's arrival, Martial started 6 games out of 21. Blaming him for us churning out performance after performance with practically zero contribution from out wide is so extremely unfair that it's hard to take it seriously.

I'm still trying to remember this alleged period where Martial was really lazy and a detriment to the team but can't for the life of me recall it.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Willian is rated higher on here than most Chelsea fans rate him, it's weird. So people trying to justify why they wanted this swap to happen are merely acting with self preservation here, and I'm guessing most are vocal 'Mourinho in' posters. It was always a hilariously bad idea and had it happened, we would have been a laughing stock.

 

[Kostov]

Can some of you imagine if we did indeed swap Martial for Willian? What a collateral feck up that would have been.

 

[Kostov]

I'm still trying to remember this alleged period where Martial was really lazy and a detriment to the team but can't for the life of me recall it.

It was cooked up somewhere in the Mourinho threads I imagine. It was laughable and to be frank pathetic from our own fans. Similar with the fat shaming of Shaw previously.

 

[bosnian_red]

Christ. The state of some of the posts in here. There was a time when Willian over a sulking, unproductive Martial would not have been insane. A motivated, in-form Martial is clearly a better bet. Neither saying it was a good move nor saying it was not make you a footballing genius.

Pretty much most people were comparing it to Mourinho losing De Bruyne and Salah. Countless posts on how Mourinho is wasting Martial and there are way more reasons than just Martial himself as for why he lost motivation.

Swapping a 29 year old Willian for a 23 year old Martial would never have been a good idea and would never have been good long term as he undoubtedly would fulfill the potential elsewhere, and it wouldve looked terribly on Mourinho as it does for De Bruyne and Salah.

 

[Siorac]

Willian is rated higher on here than most Chelsea fans rate him, it's weird. So people trying to justify why they wanted this swap to happen are merely acting with self preservation here, and I'm guessing most are vocal 'Mourinho in' posters. It was always a hilariously bad idea and had it happened, we would have been a laughing stock.

Yeah, that's the funniest part of the whole thing. He's really not that good; a decent player who is capable of great stuff on his day - but he's incredibly inconsistent and streaky. Which, at 30, is unlikely to change. And his productivity is really, really mediocre for an attacking midfielder.

 

[Siorac]

Pretty much most people were comparing it to Mourinho losing De Bruyne and Salah. Countless posts on how Mourinho is wasting Martial and there are way more reasons than just Martial himself as for why he lost motivation.

Swapping a 29 year old Willian for a 23 year old Martial would never have been a good idea and would never have been good long term as he undoubtedly would fulfill the potential elsewhere, and it wouldve looked terribly on Mourinho as it does for De Bruyne and Salah.

Just to nitpick: he turned 30 in August, before the season even began. And Martial is still a month away from 23.

 

[bosnian_red]

Just to nitpick: he turned 30 in August, before the season even began. And Martial is still a month away from 23.

Even worse! Thank God Woody has a woody for Martial. Mourinho can criticize him all he wants for transfers, but if he had it all his way we would have 29 year old (turning 30 in a few months) Perisic on the left, 30 year old Willian on the right, 29 turning 30 year old Sanchez in behind, 30 year old Matic in midfield and Alderweireld who is turning 30 at center back, all being his signings (ignoring him bringing in 35 year old Ibra). Regardless of the quality of some of these players, that's not a sustainable form of recruitment, nor is it anything but a 2 year approach.

 

[Siorac]

Even worse! Thank God Woody has a woody for Martial. Mourinho can criticize him all he wants for transfers, but if he had it all his way we would have 29 year old (turning 30 in a few months) Perisic on the left, 30 year old Willian on the right, 29 turning 30 year old Sanchez in behind, 30 year old Matic in midfield and Alderweireld who is turning 30 at center back, all being his signings (ignoring him bringing in 35 year old Ibra). Regardless of the quality of some of these players, that's not a sustainable form of recruitment, nor is it anything but a 2 year approach.

And it's been more or less clear that Woody and the Glazers have no problem with paying big money for younger players who can either give us a lot of years or would have decent resale value. See the money splashed on Lukaku, Pogba, Fred etc.

 

[Red_toad]

Take it you were one of the haters. No worries pal, no-one gets it right every time

You take it wrong. I hate neither Jose nor Martial. So yep you’re not right again.

 

[MJJ]

Who's still up for this piece of genius business?

Quote all the martial fc tards as well, bunch of idiots.

 

[Damien]

Quote all the Martial fc tards as well, bunch of idiots.

So people want Martial to stick but neither does he want to be here neither is he hitting the heights for 2 years.

Martial FC supporters disgust me.

I almost miss NikSab.

Woah woah woah, hold your horses there keyboard warrior. I know its upsetting for you and the rest of the fans of Martial United FC that your favourite boy may be about to be shown the door but, the age of Uniteds players are less important to me than what our players do on the pitch. Correct me if I'm wrong but Bayern have been doing considerably better than us in terms of trophies, football quality & entertainment levels with their ancient wingers than we have with our young Nani protege. Martial may end up being a decent player, but you and many others on here truly love to elevate a young player to levels they are not at and will in all likelihood never reach (think TFM, Tuanzebe, Januzaj, Martial) it happens all the fecking time and is becoming tedious.

For me, i'd rather we got in a player who will consistently fulfill the role the manager asks of him; i.e. puts in a shift whilst at the same time showing class, skills and graft regardless of what is going on around him. All things Willian would almost definitely deliver for at least 3 years, maybe 4. None of which Martial seems able or willing to do on anything near a consistent basis. Feck it if we have to replace him in 3 years, its not my money and its not yours either, unless you are saying that Martial is the last great young player the world is ever likely to see and there's no chance we'll ever be able to find another player like him? Which would be a little weird given there are three or four players in the French team already who are similar in what they bring and do?

I see where you’re coming from but Douglas Costa whilst skillfull and quick has a tendency to overelaborate or disappear. Two issues I have with Martial. He also has no proven experience in the Premier League. He’s just as likely to flop as he is be a world beater. As for Mahrez, I like him although once again he can disappear for long periods. Not as much as a grafter as Willian either although probably a bit more skilful. The people on here who don’t think Willian is special enough were probably the ones saying the Matic signing last year was unambitious, he was too old and not what we should have been going for. He was our 2nd best player of the season after Dave.

Matic hasn't been good enough for a long while and that has barely been a year after he signed and was only a few games ago that Luke Shaw kept Willian quiet.

 

[Raw]

Oh my god I forgot all about this. I dread to think what would have happened had we gave Chelsea our Martial for fecking Willian.

 

[JPRouve]

I almost miss NikSab.



Matic hasn't been good enough for a long while and that has barely been a year after he signed and was only a few games ago that Luke Shaw kept Willian quiet.

The formerly overweight and overrated Luke Shaw.

 

[Apokalips]

Can some of you imagine if we did indeed swap Martial for Willian? What a collateral feck up that would have been.

I'd also wager the same weirdos that wanted this would then turn on Ed once it was clear Chelsea bent us over, which frankly would be before as the ink dried on the contracts.

I could understand a team like City or Barca buying Willian as a squad player but not a team that actually need match winners. My Chelsea mates think he's garbage too and continually used to pray they'd mug us for Martial.

I don't care how sulky Martial appears to the body language experts, he's a genuine talent with up side, the type that United are supposed to traditionally nurture.

 

[Greck]

Yeah, that's the funniest part of the whole thing. He's really not that good; a decent player who is capable of great stuff on his day - but he's incredibly inconsistent and streaky. Which, at 30, is unlikely to change. And his productivity is really, really mediocre for an attacking midfielder.

This is it. The fans that overrate him really started watching him closely when we started getting linked with him halfway through last season. And tbf he was in blistering form and almost seemed to be carrying Chelsea at certain points. But that's not how Willian plays every game or even every half-season or Chelsea fans would never have been happy to swap him

 

[redIndianDevil]

fecking hell. Imagine this had happened and Sarri had Martial playing as a striker and Hazard as LW. Would destroy the PL.

I honestly don't know how Willian gets rated so highly, even Sarri keeps rotating him, Conte benched him and preferred Pedro. Willian is pretty good when he has space to run ahead and against a packed or a dogged defence, crossing is his only weapon (which is not even that accurate). He still is the Brazilian Ashley Young for me.

 

[breakout67]

Matic hasn't been good enough for a long while and that has barely been a year after he signed and was only a few games ago that Luke Shaw kept Willian quiet.

Luke Shaw has been getting worse game by game since he got his new contract. This is coming from someone that was very impressed by his early season form. Gave Juve a free run at his flank in both games. Ronaldo made the same run in Turin that he made at OT for the Dybala goal and he was lucky that Khedira messed up the shot.

I don't get what the point is in using players to make some over arching theory about the manager, because it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. You're trying to compare Matic being bad in 2018 to Luke Shaw having a good 2 months. That sort of point doesnt make sense until Luke Shaw performs over a whole season.

 

[Santoryo]

The Williams overrating reminds me of Morata. As soon as he was linked with us we had all these talks about these supposedly world class qualities he had.

And it especially became clear in Williams case that some people were rating him that highly to begin with because he appeared to be a Jose's target and some felt compelled to justify his preference of him over Martial.

Funny how the bloke is rated way highly by some United fans than Chelsea fans themselves. With that guy's end product how were people even exited about getting him and thinking that he'd have fixed our problems.

We brought in players with brilliant end products prior to joining us and turned them completely unproductive, what would have happened to someone like William who doesn't even have much end product from where he came from to begin with.

 

[JPRouve]

The Williams overrating reminds me of Morata. As soon as he was linked with us we had all these talks about these supposedly world class qualities he had.

And it especially became clear in Williams case that some people were rating him that highly to begin with because he appeared to be a Jose's target and some felt compelled to justify his preference of him over Martial.

Funny how the bloke is rated way highly by some United fans than Chelsea fans themselves. With that guy's end product how were people even exited about getting him and thinking that he'd have fixed our problems.

We brought in players with brilliant end products prior to joining us and turned them completely unproductive, what would have happened to someone like William who doesn't even have much end product from where he came from to begin with.

I like Willian but you are right that people went over the top. Now to be fair, it's a regular theme people seem to think that every other players are better than ours.

 

[Baxter]

Funny how the bloke is rated way highly by some United fans than Chelsea fans themselves. With that guy's end product how were people even exited about getting him and thinking that he'd have fixed our problems.

This was truly bizarre in the summer. Then again Jose has a magical talent for turning supporters against players.

 

[Santoryo]

I like Willian but you are right that people went over the top. Now to be fair, it's a regular theme people seem to think that every other players are better than ours.

Caf favorite pass time.

Also the way opposition players are overrated, especially in attempt to make ours seems average is astounding.

Just a recent example is the Juventus game. Don't get me wrong Juventus are a better team than us and have quality but the way people talked about their squad especially in respect to ours was some truly baffling stuff.

Seen people claim that hardly 2 or 3 players in our team will make the Juventus squad. The same Juventus that has cuadrado and Khedira as starters.

Not gonna claim that we have world class players all over the park by neither do Juventus, yet their squad is spoken in hyperbolic terms.

 

[meninred]

A very useful player for any team.
But we dont need him.

 

[Kag]

Caf favorite pass time.

Also the way opposition players are overrated, especially in attempt to make ours seems average is astounding.

Just a recent example is the Juventus game. Don't get me wrong Juventus are a better team than us and have quality but the way people talked about their squad especially in respect to ours was some truly baffling stuff.

Seen people claim that hardly 2 or 3 players in our team will make the Juventus squad. The same Juventus that has cuadrado and Khedira as starters.

Not gonna claim that we have world class players all over the park by neither do Juventus, yet their squad is spoken in hyperbolic terms.

So true. Imagine the uproar if Khedira was in our midfield? Our players are hugely and regularly underestimated by the shiny transfer mob.

This proposed deal would have been farcical. Thank feck our board didn’t entertain it.

 

[Canagel]

A real blessing for us this move never happened. All the thanks to Ed

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

The worst rumour that was ever made. It was never on the cards. Can't thank Woodward for rejecting something thay didnt exist

 

[Damien]

Luke Shaw has been getting worse game by game since he got his new contract. This is coming from someone that was very impressed by his early season form. Gave Juve a free run at his flank in both games. Ronaldo made the same run in Turin that he made at OT for the Dybala goal and he was lucky that Khedira messed up the shot.

I don't get what the point is in using players to make some over arching theory about the manager, because it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. You're trying to compare Matic being bad in 2018 to Luke Shaw having a good 2 months. That sort of point doesnt make sense until Luke Shaw performs over a whole season.

No I'm not. I'm saying Matic has been bad in 2018, and on a separate note that one of our players kept Willian quiet. If Shaw can keep Willian quiet then plenty of other LBs can - and have done as Willian's only scored/assisted in a small number of games so far this season. I'm not linking Shaw's performances to Matic at all.

 

[Gopher Brown]

Even worse! Thank God Woody has a woody for Martial. Mourinho can criticize him all he wants for transfers, but if he had it all his way we would have 29 year old (turning 30 in a few months) Perisic on the left, 30 year old Willian on the right, 29 turning 30 year old Sanchez in behind, 30 year old Matic in midfield and Alderweireld who is turning 30 at center back, all being his signings (ignoring him bringing in 35 year old Ibra). Regardless of the quality of some of these players, that's not a sustainable form of recruitment, nor is it anything but a 2 year approach.

You can see Mourinho’s point though. We might never win anything again, and young players are more inconsistent and there’s nothing worse than a player not reaching their potential when you’ve invested so much time in him.

If you had to assemble a team to win the league this year, I doubt there would be too many 22 year olds in there.

I’m playing devils advocate here, for the record.

 

[ivaldo]

The worst rumour that was ever made. It was never on the cards. Can't thank Woodward for rejecting something thay didnt exist

What do you mean it wasn't on the cards? It's a swap detail. They always happen.

 

[Catt]

Willian is rated higher on here than most Chelsea fans rate him, it's weird. So people trying to justify why they wanted this swap to happen are merely acting with self preservation here, and I'm guessing most are vocal 'Mourinho in' posters. It was always a hilariously bad idea and had it happened, we would have been a laughing stock.

It's not weird. Many posters tend to overrate oppo players to no end.