Stop talking shite. Either you missed people calling it a foul on the day, or people simply disagree with your view of it. Don't play the 'only-because-it's-valencia' card as if no-one can have a different opinion on the incident.
Antonio Valencia... | Will wear #25 shirt from this point onwards by request
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So the referee was correct to give Nani a red and the millions who said otherwise were wrong?Can you not see Baines hand literally pulling Valencias arm? I remember it fairly well myself, the referee had a good enough view to decide and didn't whistle, no Everton players even appealed. Nobody thought it was a fouland I'll trust a referees opinion over Pletch from the Internet on most occasions. Especially when he has a clear view.
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that Plech is the first person to say it was a foul, by the way.
The gif is actually taken from page 33 of this thread. Nobody said it was a foul. A couple of mentions that it could have been a pen had Valencia gone to ground when Baines started pulling on him.
Obviously, the opinion of the great and good on redcafe are unlikely to be completely unbiased (especially when people are talking about a player that's klept one of their favourite players out of the team all season
) but I don't remember any of the pundits on telly saying it should have been a foul and none of the Everton players appealed. Read into that what you will.Then don't play the card of 'don't discredit my stupid muppet opinion because I clearly dislike Valencia'
It works both ways really.
What the feck are you on about?
So you're saying that every person who thinks that is a foul above, does so purely because they don't like Valencia?
Not only is that retarded, as was your initial suggestion, but I love Valencia.
In my capacity as Pletch from the Internet, I think you're talking quite oddly about this thing. You're making it sound like this is some famous bit of case law with a long-standing consensus view on it, but I'm reading it differently in defiance of precedent and all established norms, and the others are agreeing with me for personal reasons.Can you not see Baines hand literally pulling Valencias arm? I remember it fairly well myself, the referee had a good enough view to decide and didn't whistle, no Everton players even appealed. Nobody thought it was a foul
Whereas in fact Pogue's put up a dimly-remembered clip from a game as an example of good use of body strength, and most people are pointing out that it's not a great example... not because I said so, but because although it does involve body strength, it also involves a blatant foul!
In the Match day thread when I said I thought Valencia wasn't having a great first half, Ruud<WhateverThefeckHisNumberIs> accused me of hating him.
Seems in certain posters eyes, if you like Nani, you must hate Valencia.
Seems in certain posters eyes, if you like Nani, you must hate Valencia.
I thought it was a foul at the time. I still cheered like feck when he did it though. Great to watch him completely dominate a fully grown man only a little smaller than he is with one arm. It's a terrific stiff-arm.
I think he's been decent in the past 3 or 4 games. I dunno if people are just watching him with complete expectancy that he will be rubbish and just slag him regardless or what. Definitely a huge improvement on what he was offering around December/January time.
I think he's been decent in the past 3 or 4 games. I dunno if people are just watching him with complete expectancy that he will be rubbish and just slag him regardless or what. Definitely a huge improvement on what he was offering around December/January time.
I love Valencia and have a love-hate relationship with Nani... though from his POV it's a bit more indifferent than that.
I can still, somehow, admit that Valencia occasionally commits fouls though, without the cognitive dissonance boiling my brain.
I can still, somehow, admit that Valencia occasionally commits fouls though, without the cognitive dissonance boiling my brain.
They might not have done, but it's irrelevant isn't it. I'm sure there were people on the day who thought it was a foul, perhaps they didn't post at the time. Nobody is agreeing that the Gif above is a foul, because they don't like Valencia. They'd call it a foul because they think it's a foul. Likewise people who think it's a fair challenge aren't doing so because they have a weird bias over him, it's just a difference of opinion.The gif is actually taken from page 33 of this thread. Nobody said it was a foul. A couple of mentions that it could have been a pen had Valencia gone to ground when Baines started pulling on him.
Obviously, the opinion of the great and good on redcafe are unlikely to be completely unbiased (especially when people are talking about a player that's klept one of their favourite players out of the team all season
The problem is when people like PaceMe can't accept that not everyone is going to agree on the same thing. Why that suddenly automatically means they dislike Valencia is beyond me, and it's also really stupid and no doubt very innacurate.
I don't think that's a gif of Valencia.
Of course I'm not saying that.
However Cina and You seem to be regular contributors to this thread purely in a negative way. If I'm wrong then fair enough but there seems to be an inherent dislike of him. I'm sure neither of you actively and knowingly try to belittle his ability or performances but you both do it, seemingly without knowing it.
You seem to be misinformed and well very...wrong. Read my posts in this thread again if you're unsure because it's not the case and I don't really know what you're talking about. Valencia is one of my favourite players. I have no qualms calling his season poor though, if that's what you're referring too.
That is unfortunately true! I like both of them, but I still believe Nani is the superior player, when in form.
I will do when I'm free to browse.
Back to what I came in to say! I think it's unfair to deny him praise because he isn't up to our quality at this moment, he is improving and there's nothing wrong with people being excited at the idea of him being the beast he was again.
Back to what I came in to say! I think it's unfair to deny him praise because he isn't up to our quality at this moment, he is improving and there's nothing wrong with people being excited at the idea of him being the beast he was again.
It's a stupid discussion, but Baines started fouling Valencia in first place by grabbing his hand. It's either foul for both of them(that means for Valencia) or for neither of them.
Yeah, I am completely negative.
Look at all this negative tripe last season.
Are we really debating whether or not it's a foul, from nearly 3 seasons ago?!
Who cares?! Valencia stiff-arms him NFL style, and it's brilliant. If it had happened yesterday then perhaps a discussion would be appropriate, but it happened years ago, so it just doesn't matter. Just enjoy the pace and power on show.
Who cares?! Valencia stiff-arms him NFL style, and it's brilliant. If it had happened yesterday then perhaps a discussion would be appropriate, but it happened years ago, so it just doesn't matter. Just enjoy the pace and power on show.
Learn to use his fecking left foot!
Baines is a slight foul that will only be given if it causes Valencia to go down or something. Valencia's is a clear push more likely to be given
Thought he had a good game, his best of the season. Made me laugh though when the commentator said he was playing excellent as usual, classic example of people in football describing players based on set notions rather than the current reality.
But either way hopefully we'll see him play like this for the rest of the season as much as I prefer nani and would like to see him with the same front 3 I think Valencia with rvp, kagawa and roo would be good when they get the understanding. Him always being wide gives us an out ball and makes it hard for the opposition to set themselves. If they go to narrow we can ping it to Valencia in space, if they open up the likes of kagawa will get space.
But either way hopefully we'll see him play like this for the rest of the season as much as I prefer nani and would like to see him with the same front 3 I think Valencia with rvp, kagawa and roo would be good when they get the understanding. Him always being wide gives us an out ball and makes it hard for the opposition to set themselves. If they go to narrow we can ping it to Valencia in space, if they open up the likes of kagawa will get space.
Yeah, that was baffling. Someone can actually go a full season of playing at about 10% of what they're capable of and a professional commentator paid to talk/know about the game will still think they've been putting in excellent performances every week. Amazing.
Where as Nani can be player of the season, but still be "inconsistent, and struggling to reach his potential"
Nani was fittingly acknowledged by commentators when he was on fire (10/11). Same for Berbatov. Nothing wrong with suggesting he didn't reach his potential/isn't consistent enough in general.
Yeah, Valencia has been shite this season but are you really that touched by undeserved Valencia's praising as to jump in and mourn about Nani not getting one? They are different players, does Valencia make Nani play poorly or something? It's Fergie's call.
Yeah, Valencia has been shite this season but are you really that touched by undeserved Valencia's praising as to jump in and mourn about Nani not getting one? They are different players, does Valencia make Nani play poorly or something? It's Fergie's call.
fantastic last nite and has progressively improved over the last couple of weeks
lets hope winning the title back and a few good performances the rest of the season will have him firing on all cylinders next season
lets hope winning the title back and a few good performances the rest of the season will have him firing on all cylinders next season
blatant foul!!I am genuinely really shocked at how bad Valencia has been this season. I mean Nani has been dodgy at times, Young has been a bit meek but not too far below par, but Valencia is a shadow of the player from last year.
He's not been too shabby tonight, still ball greedy but he makes things happen. In a different league quite frankly.
Of coure he is, it was a really weird comparison to make in the first place.
He is getting worse and worse
He'll be back to his best next season. He's already admitted having trouble coming back from his leg break.
I thought he looked pretty good the other night, no coincidence that we were playing with confidence. I've always suspected his dip has been more due to confidence than ability, hopefully coming back as a champion next season restores that.
I thought he looked pretty good the other night, no coincidence that we were playing with confidence. I've always suspected his dip has been more due to confidence than ability, hopefully coming back as a champion next season restores that.
Still using Valencia from this season as a comparison. I've already said, pretty clearly, that I was talking about Valencias form last season compared to Robben last season. It's really not difficult to comprehend.
Compilation and analysis of Valencia's second half vs Aston Villa by newbie MoneyMay:
What happened the first half? 
Valencia will never hit the heights of a world class winger i.e. a Robben or Ribery. In fact, none of our wingers will.. which for a club of our stature is below standard. The problem I have is Nani clearly has the ability to do this but he is so inconsistent that it practically makes no sense to keep him and sell our other wingers, based on this fact alone. It's a shame really, I guess it goes back to the saying that you know what you get when you play Valencia, although even this has not been the case this season. I'd be content with having the old Valencia back although I really don't think his playing style is suited for the more free flowing style we seem to be aiming for.
Puzzling time for that comment. He was good the other day.
I was defending him in the previous match but in this one I honestly can't.He was at his frustrating best
My god Valencia, that was really depressing.
Crossing was diabolical, but he was at least taking on and beating players again.
Complete shit again.
Back to his worst again.
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