arnie_ni
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- Apr 27, 2014
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Did he give any away this season for roma from shirt pulling?The shirt grabbing is just horrific. He would give too many penalties away.
Did he give any away this season for roma from shirt pulling?The shirt grabbing is just horrific. He would give too many penalties away.
You have genuinely watched football matches involving Lindelof and Smalling and managed to come to the conclusion that they're comparable aerially?We should return Smalling cause he is so dominant in the air. So dominant that last year he had a 64% win rate in aerial duels from 159 attempts. We should replace the very weak Lindelof whom this year had a 65.7% win rate from 146 attempts.
Yes, the numbers are not wrong:
Smalling: https://www.premierleague.com/players/3613/Chris-Smalling/stats?co=1&se=210
Lindelof: https://www.premierleague.com/players/5066/Victor-Lindelöf/stats?co=1&se=274
It is amazing how legends are created and then people repeat them, when there is no basis on reality. Smalling for some reasons has a reputation of being great in the air, Lindelof of being poor, when both of them are decent (and as good as each other) while not being great or poor.
feck know but he would have given away at least 10 per season if VAR existed around that timeDid he give any away this season for roma from shirt pulling?
Far too many people just look at stats and make assumptions about players. All these stats need to be taken in context.You have genuinely watched football matches involving Lindelof and Smalling and managed to come to the conclusion that they're comparable aerially?
You play to the rules at the time.feck know but he would have given away at least 10 per season if VAR existed around that time
And he got really lucky. End of the day there is a reason why he got loaned out.You play to the rules at the time.
24 apps (Smalling) vs 35 apps (Lindelof). Lindelof rarely attacks an aerial ball aggresively, he's much happier letting the ball bounce and defending 1v1 against a striker in the channel than going and challenging the first ball.We should return Smalling cause he is so dominant in the air. So dominant that last year he had a 64% win rate in aerial duels from 159 attempts. We should replace the very weak Lindelof whom this year had a 65.7% win rate from 146 attempts.
Yes, the numbers are not wrong:
Smalling: https://www.premierleague.com/players/3613/Chris-Smalling/stats?co=1&se=210
Lindelof: https://www.premierleague.com/players/5066/Victor-Lindelöf/stats?co=1&se=274
It is amazing how legends are created and then people repeat them, when there is no basis on reality. Smalling for some reasons has a reputation of being great in the air, Lindelof of being poor, when both of them are decent (and as good as each other) while not being great or poor.
And yet he plays in a league with VAR, and he doesn’t give away penalties in every game.And he got really lucky. End of the day there is a reason why he got loaned out.
Or that it wasn't ever really an issue. Defenders are still over attackers, it still never gets called. I think one of the bellend commentators made a bit of a fuss about Smalling doing it once and the idiots on here have hung onto it since.And yet he plays in a league with VAR, and he doesn’t give away penalties in every game.
It’s almost as if he’s adapted.
Hmmmmm.
In some cases, just watching players play is enough. No one who's watched them both play can say they are at par aerially.We should return Smalling cause he is so dominant in the air. So dominant that last year he had a 64% win rate in aerial duels from 159 attempts. We should replace the very weak Lindelof whom this year had a 65.7% win rate from 146 attempts.
Yes, the numbers are not wrong:
Smalling: https://www.premierleague.com/players/3613/Chris-Smalling/stats?co=1&se=210
Lindelof: https://www.premierleague.com/players/5066/Victor-Lindelöf/stats?co=1&se=274
It is amazing how legends are created and then people repeat them, when there is no basis on reality. Smalling for some reasons has a reputation of being great in the air, Lindelof of being poor, when both of them are decent (and as good as each other) while not being great or poor.
Yes, I guess. The fact that I looked for stats is probably cause I already thought that. However, the percentage do not lie, right? Neither the EPL had any reason to lie.You have genuinely watched football matches involving Lindelof and Smalling and managed to come to the conclusion that they're comparable aerially?
Smalling is more aggressive and makes more attempts that is true. But he is hardly a Maguire in that aspect (who has almost twice the attempts as Lindelof, while also being on seventies on win percentage).24 apps (Smalling) vs 35 apps (Lindelof). Lindelof rarely attacks an aerial ball aggresively, he's much happier letting the ball bounce and defending 1v1 against a striker in the channel than going and challenging the first ball.
If you want to compare, maybe pull up successful headers per 90.
And in some, it is not. It is actually pretty simple, they both had around as many attempts (Smalling slightly more) and had around same win percentage (Victor slightly higher).In some cases, just watching players play is enough. No one who's watched them both play can say they are at par aerially.
Lindelof was also a big part of last season shit show.Last season PL matches: Smalling 24 starts goals conceded 37. Without him 14 games 17 goals conceded
2017/8 PL season: Smalling 28 starts 24 goals conceded. Without him 10 games 4 goals conceded
2016/7 PL season: Smalling 13 starts 16 goals conceded. Without him (including a few late sub appearances) 25 games 13 goals conceded
2015/6 PL season: hard to do a comparison because Smalling started 35 matches 31 goals conceded. In this season we conceded fewer per game when he started. We conceded 4 goals in the 3 games he missed.
2014/5 PL season: Smalling 21 starts 23 goals conceded while he was on the pitch (a few games in which he got injured early on or came on as early sub). Without him 13 games 10 goals conceded. 4 goals conceded while he wasn't on the pitch but did appear at some stage, approx equivalent to 4 full matches
2013/4 PL season: another confused picture as Smalling played right back 50% of the time. Anyway, we conceded 25 goals with him on the pitch in about 21 games (plus a little bit). 18 conceded when he was missing, approx 17 games (slightly less).
I used to like Smalling a lot but at what point does it become obvious that the team tends to concede more goals when he plays compared to when he doesn't ?
Or as if he is in a different league where it’s different to his previous one. Odd isn’t it?And yet he plays in a league with VAR, and he doesn’t give away penalties in every game.
It’s almost as if he’s adapted.
Hmmmmm.
I really cannot fathom how someone can watch our games weak in and weak out yet not see how good Maguire is on the ball. His mistakes/short comings aside, he's obviously very good on the ball.He can get a bit handsy, but it looks like Maguire has him beat there. He's definitely the grabbiest defender we've had now.
Lindelof and Maguire are regarded as ball players, somehow. I don't think they're doing anything particularly impressive with the ball, and we're lousy at playing out from the back. Smalling's issue for me was more about control of the ball, and perhaps his comfort with it at his feet. His passing was fine, but he'd often take an extra touch, or he'd generally just looks a little cumbersome when opening his body up to play the ball, which would slow down play somewhat. But we're certainly not any better at it without him.
He would improve the depth we have if he came back, but he doesn't improve the quality. Each of our defenders have qualities and flaws, and Smalling would be more of the same. He would at least be much more reliable in terms of availability than anyone who isn't Maguire and Lindelof. I think he'd be a reasonable 3rd choice, but I also don't think he wants to come back and play that role, which is fair enough.
Ideally I'd like Tuanzebe to be the 3rd centre back, in hope that he becomes a starter, but I fear he is going to be ruined by injuries. I hope I'm wrong, but generally I'd like to see us move on. 99.9% of the time, you don't loan out a 29/30 year old with the intention of bringing them back.
True. Different League has different rules.Or as if he is in a different league where it’s different to his previous one. Odd isn’t it?
This alone makes your whole point a bit hard to accept....
Also, shock horror, when they played together last year Lindelof made 40 tackles (win rate 68%) while Smalling made 30 (win rate 57%). Lindelof also had more clearances, almost double of recoveries (though played 6 more matches), a better duel won rate (65%) vs 62% for Smalling (though Smalling had 20 more attempts), Lindelof had 8 successful 50/50 compared to Smalling's 1. And this is not counting their playmaking (Lindelof averaged 10 more passes than Smalling per game).
So, even in pure defending skills, Lindelof did better than Smalling, but somehow Smalling is the better defender according to Caf. It doesn't matter than any United manager had him initially in bench until other defenders got injured, that Southgate does not call him, that Ole had him like 5th choice or so in the preseason, and that statistically, Lindelof crushes him, that during years we conceded more when he starts than when he doesn't. Somehow, there has been a fetish going on for years on a decent but hardly great player.
This is hardly Lindelof vs Maguire, where I said that they are the same level. Statistically that is not the case, Maguire seems quite better. Actually, just looking at matches, you can get to the same conclusion. Maguire is a better defender. Just that he fecks up far more often than Lindelof, which is why I put them at around the same level. Smalling as a total package is nowhere close. He might be third choice if we don't sign anyone, but he won't ever start ahead of those two when everyone fit. Simply, cause he is nowhere as good.
I didn't say he was trash.Centerback pairing alongside Virgil van Dijk? I think he would. He wasn't as trash as people made him out to be. I rated him. Far better than Lindelöf.
But the defense was our strongest department. We did decently on defense, second-lowest goals conceded. Sure, Lindelof is upgradeable (as is Maguire), but IMO there are many more positions that need upgrading before him.Truth is we finished a fortunate third, we should be looking at a clear upgrade on Lindelof not questioning if Smalling is better or worse than him. The apathy with guys like Smalling and Jones is the reason the club's been lurking in the doldrums since Fergie left.
That's that decided then. Those 3 or 4 examples over a 7-8 year career with usWe all have short memories. Let’s remind ourselves.
How was it fortunate out of interest?Truth is we finished a fortunate third, we should be looking at a clear upgrade on Lindelof not questioning if Smalling is better or worse than him. The apathy with guys like Smalling and Jones is the reason the club's been lurking in the doldrums since Fergie left.
Its amazing how much favour bailly is still held in by some. He terrible.I would have had him as a starter next to Maguire this season, and if we're unable to bring in an improvement on Lindelof would do the same next.
But then I don't rate Lindelof very highly at all. At best he's decent, but still passive, weak in the air and not physical enough to make up for Maguires deficiencies.
Smalling or a fit Bailly would make a far better partner to Maguire in my opinion.
Bolded bitHe'd have games where his brain would just seem to shut down and go home. Like that one at Leicester where we conceded at the end because he couldn't decide if he was injured or not and then forgot he was playing centreback. He also for someone so big was pretty poor on defending set pieces. It took a long while but we are finally better at that now with Maguire, and in general our defence even though it's still not great (imo) looks less likely to crumble completely, and that's despite our goalkeeper turning into David James.
I think his on the ball problems were always overstated. He isn't great on the ball but to be frank neither are Maguire and Lindelof. Maguire in particular is infuriating and plays us into trouble far more often than his dallying is actually of any use. All a centrback needs to do is get the ball and pass it to a midfielder with minimal time involved and Smalling is capable of doing that. I mean Southgate made a big point of not picking him due to him not being good enough on the ball, but then picks people like Tyrone Mings. That's like not picking Balotelli because you don't want trouble and then replacing him with a drunk Joe Barton.
I'd have him back but I'm not sure if he'd be an improvement on Lindelof. He'd definitely be a better back up option if not but being a back up is the reason he wanted to leave in the first place.
Pep will never play a defender that's so bad in his passing and building up from the back. Will feck up his system.He'd get into city and Chelsea easily imo.
Hes better than otamendi and whoever Chelsea throw out.
Doesn't mean theyd be content with him however