Yes.Huge elephant in the room.It's them or the manager gone at the end of the season.Clear.
Are Bruno and Rashford a problem?
- Thread starter The Oracle
- Start date
Put Bruno in Citys team or Rashford in Liverpools/Reals team and you have a decent starter. Eth is the problem
I think we would be much better benching them. The fans wouldn’t care as we know how bad they are and they both offer absolutely nothing on this form.
they're 2 of the frauds favourites though so they’ll continue to stink up the place.
they're 2 of the frauds favourites though so they’ll continue to stink up the place.
A pretty big common denominator is that we’ve had a makeshift defence and a makeshift midfield. There’s no proper style of play that’s been embedded due to a need for constant rotation.
The club ridiculously bought (and put on higher wages) an aging and injury prone Varane and Casemiro to shore things up.
Has there been any standout players this season?
Rashford is about the streakiest player imaginable. Not a team player or intelligent decision maker and the epitome of the “moments” era at United and hence, utterly reliant on having bundles of confidence to be on one of his hot streaks. When he isn‘t he is appalling and if we had even the slightest hint of depth in this billion pound squad then he would be on the bench until he can demonstrate some hint that his next three month extravaganza is on the way.
I try to keep faith that the Bruno of a few years back will suddenly re-appear and never call for him to be dropped but am starting to lose hope. Maybe he still could be with a top class, high energy pair behind him leaving him to be a pure playmaker but that feels increasingly fanciful in any modern system. Or maybe if he didn’t have to play 70 games a season plus internationals…possibly not a coincidence that his best run of form came after a three month lockdown, after which he has basically never had a week off and got progressively worse.
I try to keep faith that the Bruno of a few years back will suddenly re-appear and never call for him to be dropped but am starting to lose hope. Maybe he still could be with a top class, high energy pair behind him leaving him to be a pure playmaker but that feels increasingly fanciful in any modern system. Or maybe if he didn’t have to play 70 games a season plus internationals…possibly not a coincidence that his best run of form came after a three month lockdown, after which he has basically never had a week off and got progressively worse.
100% this. last time rashford won an aerial battle he was on 25k a week
We didn’t watch the same game. He’s been almost always moved to the position he needed to occupy and I even remember he chased and combat Foden all the way to our end like a fullback.
I think they are the hill ETH will die on
If just one was woefully out of form, you could possibly carry them/ play them to spark them back into form but the rest of the team is poor at present, so there's no way we can possibly carry both. I'd argue we aren't even in the position to carry one of them.
Rashfords decision making is shocking, when you want him to pass he runs in to a blind alley, when you want him to be selfish he plays a poor pass. Bruno gives the ball away too often which plays us into trouble, and needs to at the very least be taken off free kicks
We always used to mock Ole for his "my Rashy shall always play" unfortunately it seems ETH is the same, and having made Bruno captain now can't drop him. Both are highly paid and big "names" so there's probably something in their contracts that they must always play (not that I agree with picking based on name!)
Sancho didn't help himself at all with his timid performances but maybe he had a point, However as he's now been ousted, there's one option gone, Antony will at least track back but again loses the ball at the crunch moment due to his weak foot, Garnacho is better used as a sub, Pellistri seems to have disappeared into thin air but wasn't amazing when given his chance, so it doesn't help there's no one clearly lighting a fire under them that absolutely must start in place of them - again an example of wasted money. Bruno is a bit easier as you could start Mount instead but then have the captaincy issue.
I will give Bruno credit in that he's always available to be chosen given we seem to have a squad of sicknotes.
I'd be interested in what coaching they are receiving - is Rashford being shown instances where he made the wrong decision so he can learn from it, is Bruno being coached on ball retention - again the question starts to come up of what do we do in training
Would either of them start for Liverpool, City or Arsenal? (All title contenders)
The other thing that annoys me about them is they're senior players so should be setting an example to the rest of the standards expected here. They don't
If just one was woefully out of form, you could possibly carry them/ play them to spark them back into form but the rest of the team is poor at present, so there's no way we can possibly carry both. I'd argue we aren't even in the position to carry one of them.
Rashfords decision making is shocking, when you want him to pass he runs in to a blind alley, when you want him to be selfish he plays a poor pass. Bruno gives the ball away too often which plays us into trouble, and needs to at the very least be taken off free kicks
We always used to mock Ole for his "my Rashy shall always play" unfortunately it seems ETH is the same, and having made Bruno captain now can't drop him. Both are highly paid and big "names" so there's probably something in their contracts that they must always play (not that I agree with picking based on name!)
Sancho didn't help himself at all with his timid performances but maybe he had a point, However as he's now been ousted, there's one option gone, Antony will at least track back but again loses the ball at the crunch moment due to his weak foot, Garnacho is better used as a sub, Pellistri seems to have disappeared into thin air but wasn't amazing when given his chance, so it doesn't help there's no one clearly lighting a fire under them that absolutely must start in place of them - again an example of wasted money. Bruno is a bit easier as you could start Mount instead but then have the captaincy issue.
I will give Bruno credit in that he's always available to be chosen given we seem to have a squad of sicknotes.
I'd be interested in what coaching they are receiving - is Rashford being shown instances where he made the wrong decision so he can learn from it, is Bruno being coached on ball retention - again the question starts to come up of what do we do in training
Would either of them start for Liverpool, City or Arsenal? (All title contenders)
The other thing that annoys me about them is they're senior players so should be setting an example to the rest of the standards expected here. They don't
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Show me any performance from this season of Rashford giving even 50% let alone 100%.
He is arguably our laziest player in the entire squad.
Yes it's true we're working with most of our main players out of defence I agree on that. I should have clarified that you can't fully judge things until we have our full team available, especially ETH.
But what I would say we're not far off that now (we're missing Shaw/Martinez/Casemiro/AWB). And still, your senior players, which is what Rashford and Bruno are (one is literally the captain) should be standing out when the going gets tough. Both are amongst the highest paid players at the club, Rashford last year was being touted as world class. Bruno was talked about along with the likes of KDB. Not saying Bruno isn't a good captain and a good player, not saying Rashford isn't. As I acknowledged in my original post, I don't know the answer to the original question for the long term.
However, all I am saying is short term, it's clear we need a different approach/have to change something. We have tried chopping/changing the midfield: we went back to McTominay, introduced Hannibal, went back to Eriksen and hooked off Mount and now have got Amrabat into midfield past few games. Yet here we are, it hasn't worked but one player has continued to play. Tried different attackers (Antony/Pellistri/Martial/Hojlund/Garnacho) but one has continued to play. I am just saying it is something ETH should be considering changing.
We currently are not good enough to carry Rashford being lazy and in terrible form. Nor are we good enough to carry Bruno's consistent losses of possession.
Both need to ride the bench, Rashford especially so.
At this point Erik needs to try something else because the current system is not working. Yes we have major defensive injuries and Casemiro has dropped off a cliff but he needs to adapt something otherwise we'll keep producing the same shite until he gets sacked.
Both need to ride the bench, Rashford especially so.
At this point Erik needs to try something else because the current system is not working. Yes we have major defensive injuries and Casemiro has dropped off a cliff but he needs to adapt something otherwise we'll keep producing the same shite until he gets sacked.
Calling them a problem is a bit much, but Rashford needs to be benched until he gets better, and Bruno needs to stop playing every fecking game, especially considering that we have Mount for the same position and EtH struggles to use Mount now that it is clear Mount and Bruno can't play together in EPL.
It is also idiotic to play Bruno on the wing, he is clearly not a good winger.
It is also idiotic to play Bruno on the wing, he is clearly not a good winger.
For me Rashford had a great couple of months last season were he started to look like the player we hoped he could be, but that's a couple of months, a few months before that he was benched for being so out of form. He is 25 now, and has never shown more then patches of good form, his decision making in the final 3rd hasn't improved.
You expect young players like Garnacho to not quite know when to shoot, when to pass, when to take on a player, but when your 25 and still making those mistakes, you start to get into Wallcott territory, all the ability but just doesn't have the decision making to consistently deliver and its pot luck whether he makes the right decision.
You expect young players like Garnacho to not quite know when to shoot, when to pass, when to take on a player, but when your 25 and still making those mistakes, you start to get into Wallcott territory, all the ability but just doesn't have the decision making to consistently deliver and its pot luck whether he makes the right decision.
The only game we’ve played this season where we looked semi-good was without the both of them.
Maybe we should give it a try again to see how playing with 11 men can work.
Maybe we should give it a try again to see how playing with 11 men can work.
If you're asking the question, you know the answer already.
Everyone can see they're a massive problem.
Both seem to exist solely to cede possession.
Both seem to exist solely to cede possession.
As we want to be the best transition team in world according to ETH, it is clear we have to play these two as our key players.
I mean it isn't at all. The best transition team is something like peak Liverpool under Klopp.
Rashford and Bruno are counterattack players. Rashford can only score goals from long punts up the pitch by Bruno or Lindelof. Majority of his goals come from deep counter attacks against high lines.
Rashford will be 26 on the 31st October, been with the club since he was 7 years old, How much coaching does he need to improve his game, he should have known himself long ago his weak points and worked on them in training. His all round game is poor and if you look back over his previous seasons there is little if no improvement in his general play. Fernandes again has been playing football from a early age, again how much coaching should he require at this stage in his playing career. With both players a coach/manager should be able to layout what he expects of them in a game and they should be able to carry out those instructions within the flow of the game. If these 2 players given the years they have have been coached cannot adapt to the playing style of a new manager, I would say yes they are a problem.
Our next manager needs to not be afraid to drop them for constant shoddy performances which Erik clearly is,if they aren't willing to work then wouldn’t be disappointed to see them leave
Yes they are.
You cannot play front foot possession football with key players as poor as them in the buildup. Replace them with Odegaard and Saka and the difference would be huge. Our best players being so tactically probematic is a huge issue as it holds us back from playing any other way other than on the counter / direct footy.
You cannot play front foot possession football with key players as poor as them in the buildup. Replace them with Odegaard and Saka and the difference would be huge. Our best players being so tactically probematic is a huge issue as it holds us back from playing any other way other than on the counter / direct footy.
I don’t understand how ETH has had the balls to drop players like Ronaldo, Sancho, Maguire but is so afraid to drop these two.
They are the System and the whole house of cards is falling because they aren't that good or consistent on regular basis .
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If majority of the fans who have never managed a club can see these two are the problem then why cannot the manager see that? Are they undroppable. Its not like there isnt a proper replacement if these two are dropped.
But on current form they aren't are they? they're massively underperforming ,that's the point, its not really about scapegoats. What harm will it do to try something/someone else, because what we're doing isn't working.
Simple answer is no.
Arteta purged the Arsenal dressing room of the primadonnas which was questioned at the time, particularly when results didn't immediately improve. He's since been proved right, EtH, or whoever replaces him will have to be brave enough to take the same stance.
"Scapegoats".
A claim with no basis whatsoever. It may or may not be true, but it is unknown at this moment. No one else has been allowed to play in their positions for any extended period of time to make a comparison and draw such a conclusion. And besides, we should be looking whether or not the entire team improves, not just Individuals FC.
Garnacho started a couple of games and didn't perform well, so he promptly got dropped. Rashford has been shite for a lot longer by this point, but he is somehow protected from getting the same treatment? Curious. As for Bruno, it's even more ridiculous, because no one ever starts ahead of him. We have no idea at all what a team without him looks like. Well, besides the EFL game against Crystal Palace. But we do know what a team with him looks like - no control and Hollywood passes. Why not start Mount, or Mejbri, or maybe even Donny in that position? I would be very interested to see how a midfield of Amrabat - Mejbri looks like, with Mount in front of them. Or perhaps Casemiro - Amrabat - Mount. Or some other permutation. But no, it's always Bruno Fernandes when it has become crystal clear he doesn't suit the supposed style of play. Same as Rashford.
By sticking with these two Ten Hag is sleepwalking into a sack. That's all there is to it.
They are somewhat the problem but you look at our whole front line and no one is scoring goals because of the way we're setting up in games. It's on the manager to get the best out of these players and his tactics seem to be on par with Ole's "do something brilliant lads" approach for the forwards. Most of the time our only outlet is Rashford who's on the half way line, 40 yards away from goal, or Antony on the other side in the same situation. There's no patterns of play and no build up play apart from sideways and backwards.
We're falling into the same old trap of scapegoating individuals and believing one or two players are the cause of all of our problems.
You don't need to look far into my post history to see I think Rashford is very average, but he's not the reason we're struggling. A side doesn't look completely dysfunctional because the AMLF is out of form - and he's in great form for England.
Likewise Bruno is frustrating and wasteful, but he's one of Portugal's best players, produces insane numbers each season for chances created and works very hard.
The problems we have are tactical. There's nobody to blame for this but the manager. Again, I never advocated for LvG, Jose or OGS to be sacked, but I've been very vocal about my feeling that ETH needs to go - because I have seen absolutely zero evidence in 18-months that he can organise and coach this team to an elite level.
You don't need to look far into my post history to see I think Rashford is very average, but he's not the reason we're struggling. A side doesn't look completely dysfunctional because the AMLF is out of form - and he's in great form for England.
Likewise Bruno is frustrating and wasteful, but he's one of Portugal's best players, produces insane numbers each season for chances created and works very hard.
The problems we have are tactical. There's nobody to blame for this but the manager. Again, I never advocated for LvG, Jose or OGS to be sacked, but I've been very vocal about my feeling that ETH needs to go - because I have seen absolutely zero evidence in 18-months that he can organise and coach this team to an elite level.
I'd presume Bruno and Rashford are popular and well liked in the dressing room, therefore he doesn't want to risk upsetting them. Ronaldo and Sancho alienated themselves with their poor behaviour so it was easy to drop them
Pep would never go after a type like Bruno. he is way to erratic in his play.
At the moment they are, neither of them are playing well and both of them are starting every game. Ten Hag should use the Newcastle game as an opportunity to experiment because he's sleepwalking his way to the sack doing what he is currently.
Agreed. Bruno and Rashford do not perform basics well enough consistently. They may conjure up a magical goal or assist but that is not Pep wants.
As a fan, I was sad and same time awed by the smoothness of city's play. The players are all proficient in receiving balls on half turn and quickly make the correct decision to pass or dribble. They were almost muscle memory which are results of proper coaching and practices. Conversely our players need few seconds to decide what to do with the ball and often end up with the wrong decision (probably only Eriksen from the squad can do these basics instinctively with relatively good success rates)
I seriously don't know if the main problem is coaching or limitation of our players nowadays.
<insert AlwaysHaveBeen meme>
Bruno wouldn’t get in city’s team because he he has no discipline and can’t keep the ball . . I’m sure that he’d have got a berth in their squad 5 years ago, when he was young enough to be trained into pep’s system, but he‘s too old for that now and he wouldn’t even get on their bench nowadays because they have academy kids who can hold possession better.
Which means that Bruno IS a problem because he doesn’t have the basic skills to play at a good level in the system that TH is implementing.
And you think the Rashford works hard enough to play under klop? Really?
If he worked hard enough to play for the dippers then he’d be working hard enough to play under TH too. . . but he doesn’t so he’s a problem.
Both good / great players if not asked to work like trojans and keep possession against a high press.
IMO TH is taking you through a difficult transition in playing styles and you need to have the balls to trust the man.
We deffo should try something else in the league. We got nothing to play for anymore anyway. No way we make top four so why not start Garnacho more and give Mainoo a chance. And we could give that Mount guy a bit of a run out. I mean we paid 50 mill for the guy.
This season, our poor form and there's have exacerbated their issues.
Both Bruno and Rashford are the types of players who want to put "the team on their backs." They do this by trying to create themselves.
Rashford by dribbling and shooting, Bruno by trying to create from all over the pitch. Problem is, they've both been frenetic.
Rashford is running down blind alleys again, and Bruno is giving the ball away more then 90% of the league.
They are part of the problem. Because they are supposed to be the main two areas of chance creation.
Both Bruno and Rashford are the types of players who want to put "the team on their backs." They do this by trying to create themselves.
Rashford by dribbling and shooting, Bruno by trying to create from all over the pitch. Problem is, they've both been frenetic.
Rashford is running down blind alleys again, and Bruno is giving the ball away more then 90% of the league.
They are part of the problem. Because they are supposed to be the main two areas of chance creation.
As individuals they are good footballers but probably not good enough to get a whole team built around them.
Rashford definitely gives his 100%, but it's over a span of several games. 10% here, a 7% there and so on.. And Bruno definitely tries; he tries some hopeful passes and flicks that usually reaches the opposition. Their intentions may be pure, but its' definitely hurting the team.