Isn’t this precisely the problem? Eddie Fecking Howe? England need a top class attacking manager, not some dud who’s recent achievement is getting relegated. England may as well get a young German manager in who uses the gegenpress style because no English manager can actually manage.
Are English players overrated or is it Southgate ?
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This times a million. So lazy to say England fans overhype the team. It isn’t based in reality. We are hopeful because we are fans. That’s it.
perfect summary
Would be surprised given how his last job ended. Would Potter take it? Yes he has a job at present but most decent coaches will. Like how he gets his team playing.
Here's a prediction: england will look much better against higher quality of opposition and will make another deep run
I feel for Foden. He has played on the left wing all year and now has to play on the right, to accommodate Sterling. Now he isn’t setting the world alight, people are calling him massively overrated. He is probably a bit, if people were thinking he was the new Messi, but still he should be one of the best players of England.
England have 4 points from 2 games and are odds on to go through top of the group. They have the captains of Liverpool and United due to come back in the side and a stack of attacking talent fighting for places in the starting 11.
So what is the problem? The actual problem is that despite being in that position the fans' reaction is "why are we so shit and who's to blame"?
So what is the problem? The actual problem is that despite being in that position the fans' reaction is "why are we so shit and who's to blame"?
Some of the players he is selecting such as Sterling, Foden, Phillips even Kane this tournament are overhyped and there are better players left on the bench. The biggest issue is the manager though who is truly shocking.
Tend to agree
Rice is a very average DM. How you can talk about £90m for him is beyond me.
Thought a lot of the players looked nervous out there yesterday though, and I feel that's at least in part down to Southgate's random good lad based selection process. The likes of Grealish, Shaw, James felt massive pressure to perform or they might not play again for ages/ ever. Sancho would probably be the same if he was anywhere to be seen.
Thought a lot of the players looked nervous out there yesterday though, and I feel that's at least in part down to Southgate's random good lad based selection process. The likes of Grealish, Shaw, James felt massive pressure to perform or they might not play again for ages/ ever. Sancho would probably be the same if he was anywhere to be seen.
I forgot about Dias, I'll give you that. The others not so much. A couple of them might get in the squad but they aren't comprehensively better than what's already there.
Similar with most of those Germans, although I don't think much of Hummels these days.
They're not comprehensively worse, either. England's great strength is attacking depth. The starting XI isn't particularly better than Portugal or Belgium and not much better than Germany, Italy, Netherlands or Spain...
And certainly well below France
It depends on what happens from here. If England start playing better and win the tournament it won't matter. Right now they're doing the bare minimum and you could even argue they're not doing that either. It's a 1-0 win at home to a terrible Croatia team and a 0-0 at home to an average Scotland team. Now, should they crawl towards the trophy win your 0-0s and 1-0s then it will be fine. If they don't then it will simply be a very good team playing very bad football and winning nothing. As it is with most things in football, the end result writes/rewrites the narrative.
There are always wild overreactions to the England team, I don't think Southgate is amazing and some of the players are a little overrated. But also, a draw in one group game doesn't make them chumps. They're still going through comfortably. Their legacy won't be decided by a 0-0 against Scotland. It will be decided against France, Germany or Portugal or whoever they face in the knockout stages.
I think the biggest issue for England now and England over many years is just picking who they consider the best players, rather than in a functional system. Sancho should be playing right wing because he can play right wing. Foden is there at the moment but playing like Mata used to for United there, drifting into number 10 position and not offering an outball. The balance is off, it looks like 4-2-2-2, with Kane trying to play number 10, even though they already have two number 10s.
This is a common problem of England teams - Lampard and Gerrard must play in centre midfield. Beckham must play in a 4-4-2 even though the formation was dying out at the top level. Rooney and Owen must play together up front etc. The best England's midfield ever looked in the 2000s was with Butt and Scholes in 2002 World Cup who both knew each other and were balanced between attack and defence, but that was only because Steven Gerrard was injured.
I think the biggest issue for England now and England over many years is just picking who they consider the best players, rather than in a functional system. Sancho should be playing right wing because he can play right wing. Foden is there at the moment but playing like Mata used to for United there, drifting into number 10 position and not offering an outball. The balance is off, it looks like 4-2-2-2, with Kane trying to play number 10, even though they already have two number 10s.
This is a common problem of England teams - Lampard and Gerrard must play in centre midfield. Beckham must play in a 4-4-2 even though the formation was dying out at the top level. Rooney and Owen must play together up front etc. The best England's midfield ever looked in the 2000s was with Butt and Scholes in 2002 World Cup who both knew each other and were balanced between attack and defence, but that was only because Steven Gerrard was injured.
Pickford - Unproven
James - CL winner this season
Shaw - One of the best LBs in the world
Mings - Unproven
Stones - CL finalist this season
Phillips - Unproven
Rice - Unproven
Mount - CL winner this season
Sterling - CL finalist this season
Foden - CL finalist this season
Kane - Arguably the best CF in the world and CL finalist two seasons ago
There are only 4 unproven players in the starting XI. But 3 of them (Pickford, Mings, Rice) are defensive players who have helped to keep two clean sheets in two games. And the other 1 (Phillips) has been our Man of The Tournament so far.
I get that the usual England haters are getting moist at the opportunity to twist the knife. But the issue is clearly not the quality of the players. It's the manager failing to get the best out of them. Southgate is the problem.
James - CL winner this season
Shaw - One of the best LBs in the world
Mings - Unproven
Stones - CL finalist this season
Phillips - Unproven
Rice - Unproven
Mount - CL winner this season
Sterling - CL finalist this season
Foden - CL finalist this season
Kane - Arguably the best CF in the world and CL finalist two seasons ago
There are only 4 unproven players in the starting XI. But 3 of them (Pickford, Mings, Rice) are defensive players who have helped to keep two clean sheets in two games. And the other 1 (Phillips) has been our Man of The Tournament so far.
I get that the usual England haters are getting moist at the opportunity to twist the knife. But the issue is clearly not the quality of the players. It's the manager failing to get the best out of them. Southgate is the problem.
I wouldn’t say England XI is better then Italy or Spain. I wouldn’t start any of the England’s defenders or midfielders over the Italian ones. And in attack Insigne would hold his place at left wing too.
That's the point I was making. The initial post said Germany, Portugal and Italy had better starting teams than England. There's not much in it but England are certainly up there with them, and probably have better attacking options than most.
It took Klopp three seasons of week-in-week-out training to get Liverpool to that point. International management doesn't afford coaches that luxury.
At national level it's most about player selection, man management, and picking tactics that the squad is familiar with at club level.
This definitely on the manager, we may not be blessed in every position of the team but most of the attacking players we have would walk in to many of the top international sides like Bellingham, foden, mount, grealish, Sancho or kane.
It wouldn't have been a shocker if this england side were struggling defensively but in no way should it be this blunt in attack.
It wouldn't have been a shocker if this england side were struggling defensively but in no way should it be this blunt in attack.
I don't think unproven is the right word here, Pickford was one of the best goalkeepers at the last World Cup. Arguably second best keeper in the tournament. How else do you prove yourself at international level, other than play well at an international tournament? I'm not saying he's really good or anything, in fact his form has been shit enough for Everton, but you're putting him in with 3 players who have never even played in a tournament or CL level before, when he's played at that level in a World Cup.
At least three or four of England's full-backs would start for Italy or Spain. Locatelli is playing very well in this tournament, but it's hard to say based on CL that Mancini wouldn't have played Foden or Mount over Locatelli.
Mostly Southgate but to be honest English players are just a tad overrated.
You'd think Kane was a 35 yo striker the way he's playing.
Sterling . . . I just don't know how he seems to one of the first on the team sheet.
Grealish and Sancho two of the most in form England players barely get a look in.
Our squad isn't great but it's a hell of a lot better than it looks at the moment under Southgate.
Grealish, DCL, Sancho, would be a better front three than hes currently going with but the established stars must start as always.
Sterling . . . I just don't know how he seems to one of the first on the team sheet.
Grealish and Sancho two of the most in form England players barely get a look in.
Our squad isn't great but it's a hell of a lot better than it looks at the moment under Southgate.
Grealish, DCL, Sancho, would be a better front three than hes currently going with but the established stars must start as always.
All the talk before the game was Scotland are a championship side and England would trash them.
Grealish (8 caps, captain of Villa, fans favourite) and Sancho (19 caps) are more of established stars than Foden (8 caps but only half a season of football) and Mount (18 caps).
We have a talented squad of players. They are not at the level of France but they are talented and have proven that in Europe and the PL. The performances and selection particularly yesterday were shocking but my god no one knows how raise up then bash players like this country.
Just watch them more mate so you can make your own assumptions as you will get opinions on here that may have bias.
All the talk before the game was that England were shit and that Scotland were underrated.
Now Billy Gilmour is the second coming of Jesus.
I was referring to Kane and Sterling the two worst performers.
Grealish is in no way an established star, he's barely played for England.
The squad is great, and Southgate seems to be very uninspiring and mediocre.
But then, as @Dante says, there's only so much time a NT manager has anyway.
Therefore, another problem I'd attest the English team apart from their manager is that they have no real block, of players from a top team that are used to playing together and might form some sort of spine.
The starters are from Everton, City, Chelsea, West Ham, Man United, Aston Villa, Leeds, and Spurs.
Only City have a block of three starters, but then these three are not really what you would call leadership players in terms of mentality and experience. And they're also not connected on the pitch.
It's a result, partly, of the PL's specific quality, with top players in many teams, and especially the English top players evenly distributed since most of the best players in the best teams are stars from abroad.
And it's ironic that circumstances have made it so that the most "English" top team of recent years, that could have served as a base for a team with a spine, and that is very well drilled - Liverpool - has no starter at all.
Trent, Henderson, Gomez are injured, Milner has grown too old.
But then, as @Dante says, there's only so much time a NT manager has anyway.
Therefore, another problem I'd attest the English team apart from their manager is that they have no real block, of players from a top team that are used to playing together and might form some sort of spine.
The starters are from Everton, City, Chelsea, West Ham, Man United, Aston Villa, Leeds, and Spurs.
Only City have a block of three starters, but then these three are not really what you would call leadership players in terms of mentality and experience. And they're also not connected on the pitch.
It's a result, partly, of the PL's specific quality, with top players in many teams, and especially the English top players evenly distributed since most of the best players in the best teams are stars from abroad.
And it's ironic that circumstances have made it so that the most "English" top team of recent years, that could have served as a base for a team with a spine, and that is very well drilled - Liverpool - has no starter at all.
Trent, Henderson, Gomez are injured, Milner has grown too old.
Even though they were playing players from Chelsea, Man United, Arsenal and Liverpool, while McGinn 'only' plays for Aston Villa yet by the end of the game England were playing two Aston Villa players. Scotland have really nothing up front, but defence and midfield would be pushing Europa League level in the PL.
They are extremely overrated. The fact there are people who believe Kane is worth over 100 million is scary.
I felt this current English team is one of the worst English teams i have witnessed yet some posters were saying they were the best chance of winning in decades.
There are so many poor or average players in this English set up
Pickford
Mings
Stones
Phillips
Grealish
Rice
All starters yet hand on heart which of them would the top clubs in Europe pay big money for?
Then you got your Kanes, Foden Mounts Rashfords etc who are all massively over hyped and ask the same question would Barcelona or Real look to pay over 100 million for any of them ?
I felt this current English team is one of the worst English teams i have witnessed yet some posters were saying they were the best chance of winning in decades.
There are so many poor or average players in this English set up
Pickford
Mings
Stones
Phillips
Grealish
Rice
All starters yet hand on heart which of them would the top clubs in Europe pay big money for?
Then you got your Kanes, Foden Mounts Rashfords etc who are all massively over hyped and ask the same question would Barcelona or Real look to pay over 100 million for any of them ?
More on point, none of them bar Kane (and Sterling, sometimes) is the leader or the main act of their superteams. So you have mostly rotational players, used to wait for others make things happen. Add Southgate to this, even less used to the highest levels, both as a player and a manager. Then……. Give it to Conte until WC 22.
I do find England's fans/pundits obsession/focus with this teams pace to be quite humorous. Its all the pundits go on about the majority of time.
I wouldn't say Italy are particularly fast but they're quick in thought and game intelligence.
Like SAF has said in the past. To quicken a teams tempo you don't necessarily need pace in the team, just less touches, composure and incisive passing. England had none of that last night.
Having a disjointed set-up also doesn't exactly help.
I wouldn't say Italy are particularly fast but they're quick in thought and game intelligence.
Like SAF has said in the past. To quicken a teams tempo you don't necessarily need pace in the team, just less touches, composure and incisive passing. England had none of that last night.
Having a disjointed set-up also doesn't exactly help.
This current England team is one of the worst you've witnessed? You really can't have watched much of us over the years then. Every squad has some filler in it and we are certainly not the best in the competition but we should be Inthe conversation for top three or five going on the players we have. Also, using Stones and Grealish as examples of poor or average players is just wrong.
There's never any nuance where England are concerned - we're either the greatest side in the world or overrated trash. Fact is we are a side that is playing well below the sum of its parts at the moment. That's largely on Southgate.
England are always overrated. I thought they were terrible against Croatia and worse against Scotland. Scotland, even though they lost, were good against the Czech Rep.
Individually, though, England do have one of the best squads in the tournament. They lack solid central midfield options (Bellingham is only 17) which is what is killing them and has been since before 2008 when Gerrard/Lampard unbalanced the team and Scholes had retired because he was sick of being pushed out to the wing.
It's easy to revise how good England are now, but none of these players look this shit playing for their clubs. It's mostly a mix of Southgate being completely wank and the international setup being very disjointed. How can he think that is his best team after years of scouting? Everyone in the world knows it isn't.
Mainly, Phillips shouldn't be anywhere near the team and England will never win a thing if Rice is one of their most important midfielders.
Individually, though, England do have one of the best squads in the tournament. They lack solid central midfield options (Bellingham is only 17) which is what is killing them and has been since before 2008 when Gerrard/Lampard unbalanced the team and Scholes had retired because he was sick of being pushed out to the wing.
It's easy to revise how good England are now, but none of these players look this shit playing for their clubs. It's mostly a mix of Southgate being completely wank and the international setup being very disjointed. How can he think that is his best team after years of scouting? Everyone in the world knows it isn't.
Mainly, Phillips shouldn't be anywhere near the team and England will never win a thing if Rice is one of their most important midfielders.