Are there any City fans that accept it’s tainted?

They’ve won it and that’s that. It was always going to happen at some point. Now united as a club has to fight to stop this from becoming a regular thing.
 
Made the mistake and of turning on the news just now.
Sickening sycophantic coverage with no mention of the cheating.
They won’t settle until they win every single trophy every single year.
It’s only going to get worse from here on
 
Sky1981 said:
No we don't

Our financial muscle is close to maximized under Glazer, they're a shit footballer brain but marketing wise they're good.

So no, having Qatar doesn't make us suddenly double / triple our war kitty, nor somehow having extra cash to build a stadium. Accounting wise all those Qatari wealth should be injected to the club and be labelled as obligations, or income.

Yes, we are big, but not city war kitty big. Our books is not state secret everyone can see our turnover.

So if Qatar bought us and invest heavily we'll be cooking the books as well. Let's not kid ourselves, Newcastle, PSG, City etc doesnt suddely grows money out of thin air.
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I’m not an expert on our finances, so please do tell me where I’m mistaken. Newcastle,
PSG and city all had no global brand at all, or nothing close to what United brand is at. From what I understand, we have
Spent quite a ton of money and the glazers have taken over billion on top of that. Wasn’t that income all generated? And how does it compare to what other clubs in the pl generate?

Another aspect to it is actually having competent people in charge means whenever you do spend, it does tend to make you better. Because city have spent a lot, but the gap between the two clubs right now is bigger than the gap in spending.

The biggest issue would be the stadium and the infrastructure. Maybe this is where the investment from the owners would be needed?
 
Look mate football is and always was about investement. The 70s Ajax team, Uniteds 58/92 youngsters and the Xavi/Iniesta partnership is something that happens rearly and even then you need to buy top quality players to accompany your home grown. I have no problem with their success in that regard but giving the quality behind theirs and ours and and Inters team they sure were very nervous in both cup finals and didnt look convincing at all but nobody is going to remember that.
 
OldSchoolManc said:
Lovely story and it gives me hope that the other 19+ clubs won’t stand for it any longer.
How on earth can one inflated ‘club’ be allowed to hoover up all the competitions while the rest stick to the rules?
It makes the whole thing pointless and will end up with fans walking away from the EPL
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Two things will happen:

1. They'll get away with it, nothing will be done and it will give the green light to every other club that you can cheat/cook-the-books, and get away with it to. It will become a free for all and FFP will be abolished.

2. The Prem/FA will have the balls to penalise them, stick to the rules and show every other club that cheating isn't tolerated and send a clear message out that no matter how big you are, you aren't above the game/law.

I've been following Pro Cycling for 50yrs and the Tour de France and UCI didn't give a shjte when Lance Armstrong got done for cheating. They immediately banned him and put a red line straight through his Tour wins as if they had never happened. They didn't care and fans of the sport just accepted it. They had the balls to do it.

Same thing should happen with City. Put a line through all their achievements where they've cheated. Wether it's drug doping or financial doping, its the same thing. Its cheating, plain and simple.

What really annoys me are the constant double standards of journalism. The BBC banged on about human rights surrounding the Qatar World Cup for a month leading up to the first match and even during it. But come Match of the Day every week, you don't hear a squeak from them about City's FFP case, it's all City this, City that.

Fekin hypocrisy of the highest level.
 
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I don't suppose there were many complaints here in 1999 when Man Utd won a treble having gone round buying up other teams players for fees that most could not match or when Man Utd were buying the likes of Rio and Rooney for £30m apiece twenty plus years ago, which would be £100m+ now.

it isn't about money; it's about ability and reputation.

Man United spend as heavily as Man City - they just don't do it anywhere near as efficiently. How many bad signings have each of the two teams made in the last six/seven years?
 
DJBillRemfry said:
I don't suppose there were many complaints here in 1999 when Man Utd won a treble having gone round buying up other teams players for fees that most could not match or when Man Utd were buying the likes of Rio and Rooney for £30m apiece twenty plus years ago, which would be £100m+ now.

it isn't about money; it's about ability and reputation.

Man United spend as heavily as Man City - they just don't do it anywhere near as efficiently. How many bad signings have each of the two teams made in the last six/seven years?
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Two players that weren’t in the treble team haha.

Trivia question: in twenty six years of Alex Ferguson, how many times do you think united spent the most in the league?
 
DJBillRemfry said:
I don't suppose there were many complaints here in 1999 when Man Utd won a treble having gone round buying up other teams players for fees that most could not match or when Man Utd were buying the likes of Rio and Rooney for £30m apiece twenty plus years ago, which would be £100m+ now.

it isn't about money; it's about ability and reputation.

Man United spend as heavily as Man City - they just don't do it anywhere near as efficiently. How many bad signings have each of the two teams made in the last six/seven years?
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Nonsense.
You’re assuming what city announce as transfer fees are what they actually pay.

They’ve got history of lying through their teeth and have been charged 115 times. They’re players are on or have been on massively inflated salaries whilst they claim they pay them moderate wages. Haaland for 52m…. Course he was

there is no comparison between 1999 and city.
 
it’s only tainted because you scraped your way to the first one. for me, this is the only true treble. one where we were clearly the best team in europe. we’ve had to beat the best of the best. you got to rest keane and scholes in the 99 final because the level of competition was so poor.
 
Don't think many people outside their rivals care honestly. I hardly ever hear the term plastic about Chelsea anymore. They're just there now, at the top of the football world (especially this season). Same will happen to City within the next decade.

If they are convicted and lose their trophies that's obviously a different (and very funny) story.

Having said that, I am entirely indifferent to the club Manchester City. They exist and they have a lot of good players. Whoopy.
 
It feels different to the Liverpool wins. Those hurt far, far more. This is annoying but I'm not jealous. It's hard to explain. It's almost as if this win doesn't mean as much to anyone. To rivals, to football or - going by their own celebrations - to Citys own fanbase.

I dunno I don't have the "I hate football, everyone can feck off" feel I got when Liverpool won the league or had European success. Almost as if this doesn't matter nearly as much.
 
DJBillRemfry said:
I don't suppose there were many complaints here in 1999 when Man Utd won a treble having gone round buying up other teams players for fees that most could not match or when Man Utd were buying the likes of Rio and Rooney for £30m apiece twenty plus years ago, which would be £100m+ now.

it isn't about money; it's about ability and reputation.

Man United spend as heavily as Man City - they just don't do it anywhere near as efficiently. How many bad signings have each of the two teams made in the last six/seven years?
Click to expand...

How many charges have been listed against United?
 
They’re a soulless hollow club that is relevant due to a sugar daddy and still needed to commit financial frauds to reach where they have. I really thought I’d be badly affected by their success but it feels too shallow and meaningless to care about. It’s odd how Liverpool nearly winning the quadruple or winning the CL / PL felt excruciating in comparison. Probably because that was a genuinely great accomplishment worth praising and lauding, and I hated that.
 
There are even supposed United fan who didn't think it's tainted, for example:

dal said:
For me Pep is the best, city are incredible we have to admit that. Never have I seen a united team this good. 99 was brilliant but if Pep does this it eclipses what we achieved.

Financial doping and using that as a claim that they are cheats makes me cringe. It's not even been proven yet. Everyone now spends a shed load of money, we have also just very very badly. You have to spend money to buy good players to win leagues.
I've no problem with rich people injecting money into the beautiful game in England, obviously within the rules.
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rimaldo said:
it’s only tainted because you scraped your way to the first one. for me, this is the only true treble. one where we were clearly the biggest cheats in europe. we’ve had to beat the best of the best. you got to rest keane and scholes in the 99 final because the level of competition was so poor.
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Fixed
 
Wumminator said:
City broke the structure themselves! They led to it being broken.

Tottenham would have leagues and FA Cups if it wasn’t for City! Maybe a few CLs. Brighton could be a CL a club this year if it wasn’t for nation states owning football.

How can you possibly look at leagues with City and PSG in and think - ah yes, smaller clubs must rejoice.
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Eh? That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying we need to revamp football, but it's not a question of just stopping state ownership.

You're deluded if you think that's the only thing wrong with modern football. The moment Brighton becomes remotely successful one of the historically bigger teams would've raided them. See Germany, for instance, where nation-states cannot own clubs.
 
DJBillRemfry said:
I don't suppose there were many complaints here in 1999 when Man Utd won a treble having gone round buying up other teams players for fees that most could not match or when Man Utd were buying the likes of Rio and Rooney for £30m apiece twenty plus years ago, which would be £100m+ now.

it isn't about money; it's about ability and reputation.

Man United spend as heavily as Man City - they just don't do it anywhere near as efficiently. How many bad signings have each of the two teams made in the last six/seven years?
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Rio and Rooney were both signed after '99 so not the best argument, we were outspent by Liverpool, Newcastle and Blackburn in the 90s so I don't know where you get the idea we were paying fees that others couldn't match.
As for the money we've wasted in the last 6/7 years that doesn't justify City cheating the FFP rules since 2009 to be in this position
 
Edwards6 said:
Rio and Rooney were both signed after '99 so not the best argument, we were outspent by Liverpool, Newcastle and Blackburn in the 90s so I don't know where you get the idea we were paying fees that others couldn't match.
As for the money we've wasted in the last 6/7 years that doesn't justify City cheating the FFP rules since 2009 to be in this position
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What a lot of these City apologists are not understanding is that it's not about the money spent, it's about how they were able to breach FFP regulations through their shady finances. A club like City could never generate that type of income organically and that's where the issue is.
 
To answer your question: from a football perspective no, Pep has them playing unbelievably brilliant football, changing the way it’s thought of by many a manager from the top right down to the grass roots and academies.

But to get there he needed money and the city owners has provided that.

We can go on and on about would Pep do it at Fulham or West Ham etc without money, he would prob get others close he’s that good but the game needs money for the best players and for developing the best young players through club academies. It’s what we need at United. It’s a sorry state of affairs but it’s a reality.
 
Any complaint coming from a United fan sounds bitter but feck it. City are cheats and they won’t be punished for it.

But that’s not the only factor, where is the competition?

Real are entering a transition, Bayern too, Barca were in the UEL, the Italian teams are just making a comeback after years of being shit. PSG were PSG. One of the lowest quality CLs I’ve ever seen.

In the PL all the big teams bar Arsenal aren’t at their best. The PL is so mediocre this year that Longstaff in the CL.

Congratulations on the treble but you got it by cheating and capitalising on being the only big team performing currently because of that cheating.
 
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DJBillRemfry said:
I don't suppose there were many complaints here in 1999 when Man Utd won a treble having gone round buying up other teams players for fees that most could not match or when Man Utd were buying the likes of Rio and Rooney for £30m apiece twenty plus years ago, which would be £100m+ now.

it isn't about money; it's about ability and reputation.

Man United spend as heavily as Man City - they just don't do it anywhere near as efficiently. How many bad signings have each of the two teams made in the last six/seven years?
Click to expand...
There's missing the point and then there's this
 
I think what we can see with City is, in addition to some other factors obviously, a monumental failure of sports journalism. The absence of steady and serious criticism, the sycophantic coverage they received, the experts coming from within the game refusing to criticise them, the lack of investigative research within sports journalism (most findings came from journalists usually not involved with sports if I remember correctly) and so on are infuriating. And it shows how sports journalism works. They are doing PR but not journalism. They are marketing a product instead of looking behind how it’s being made. And instead of being critical towards City, they are just happy that they can write their little but simple transfer stories.
In regards to City, sports journalism has failed miserably. They have exposed themselves as unwilling and incapable of understanding and portraying the mechanisms behind City’s ascend. They left behind any shred of journalistic integrity. They just pretend that everything is normal.
From time to time when watching games with City taking part, they shortly mention the accusations. They will then proclaim to ignore them for the rest of the game. Because they want to concentrate on football, not politics. They openly admit to their failures without noticing.
I don’t know if that’s always been the case with sports journalism. But it’s not a good situation. It allows these criminals to keep stealing this game from us. And while they pretend to be indifferent, they are actually helping them going forward.
Any journalist writing stories on City’s success without making serious mention of the reasons for it, has failed their profession.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Don't think many people outside their rivals care honestly. I hardly ever hear the term plastic about Chelsea anymore. They're just there now, at the top of the football world (especially this season). Same will happen to City within the next decade.

If they are convicted and lose their trophies that's obviously a different (and very funny) story.

Having said that, I am entirely indifferent to the club Manchester City. They exist and they have a lot of good players. Whoopy.
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The next generation of fans simply don’t care about these issues anymore. They grew up in a football environment where this was heavily normalised, never followed by consequences and it where it simply worked quite well. So where should their criticism come from?
 
rimaldo said:
it’s only tainted because you scraped your way to the first one. for me, this is the only true treble. one where we were clearly the best team in europe. we’ve had to beat the best of the best. you got to rest keane and scholes in the 99 final because the level of competition was so poor.
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Yes, a treble team that consistently went round pinching other clubs' players for about a decade before with record fees (Keane, Ince, Yorke, Cole) , that was subsequently followed by what where then considered obscene amounts for the likes of Rooney and Rio. Ferguson's last title was all about pinching Van Persie off Arsenal.

No complaints about buying success then.
 
Bar United supporters I don't think anyone actually cares about the way they done it, just got to face facts and realise that they're better than us at the moment.

We might close the gap next season or year after that or it might go on for another 10 years, just have to deal with it.
 
Edwards6 said:
They've got a great manager and team but do you think they'd have either if they didn't cheat the FFP system for years? It's like saying Lance Armstrong just rode his bike faster than everyone else so it doesn't matter that he was doping for years
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Exactly. Lance Armstrong still trained hard and rode like a madman, which takes massive mental fortitude. But it’s quite rightly called out and he even he had the humility to admit he fecked up.
 
They don’t care

They see the team playing great football and winning week in week out and that’s enough for them
 
DJBillRemfry said:
Yes, a treble team that consistently went round pinching other clubs' players for about a decade before with record fees (Keane, Ince, Yorke, Cole) , that was subsequently followed by what where then considered obscene amounts for the likes of Rooney and Rio. Ferguson's last title was all about pinching Van Persie off Arsenal.

No complaints about buying success then.
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How were the players pinched? Are all others transfers by other teams "pinched" too?
 
Castia said:
They don’t care

They see the team playing great football and winning week in week out and that’s enough for them
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Yeah, a complete lack of morale convictions will do that to you.
 
DJBillRemfry said:
Yes, a treble team that consistently went round pinching other clubs' players for about a decade before with record fees (Keane, Ince, Yorke, Cole) , that was subsequently followed by what where then considered obscene amounts for the likes of Rooney and Rio. Ferguson's last title was all about pinching Van Persie off Arsenal.

No complaints about buying success then.
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Ince wasn't a record fee. Nor was Yorke. Also the summer we bought Rio Lazio spent around £80m. Ferries only spent peanuts compared to other European clubs.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/lazio-rom/transfers/verein/398/saison_id/2001
 
Doubt it.

The media barely mention it.

The coverage behind City all season has been a disgrace. I truly don't understand how it's never ever mentioned. You've got commentators talking about how their treble success was a fairy tale ending. The commentators on CBS sports were salivating over a City victory all game. Like feck off.
 
DJBillRemfry said:
Yes, a treble team that consistently went round pinching other clubs' players for about a decade before with record fees (Keane, Ince, Yorke, Cole) , that was subsequently followed by what where then considered obscene amounts for the likes of Rooney and Rio. Ferguson's last title was all about pinching Van Persie off Arsenal.

No complaints about buying success then.
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Cool so when Qatar buy United and United blow everyone out of the water, I don't want to hear any complaining
 
DJBillRemfry said:
Yes, a treble team that consistently went round pinching other clubs' players for about a decade before with record fees (Keane, Ince, Yorke, Cole) , that was subsequently followed by what where then considered obscene amounts for the likes of Rooney and Rio. Ferguson's last title was all about pinching Van Persie off Arsenal.

No complaints about buying success then.
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As you seem to know so much about transfers and finances, could you please tell us how much United‘s 99 team cost and how much City‘s 2023?
Obviously taking inflation into account.
You can ignore City‘s cheating for your calculations.
 
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