Yeah I agree. This will be like the season we came 2nd but Arsenal will do better than 74 pts (?) that we managed.
City will just runaway with it at 90+ unfortunately.
Arsenal 22/23 - go to new thread
- Thread starter horsechoker
- Start date
City will just runaway with it at 90+ unfortunately.
He redeemed himself both times. Against Fulham he scored the winner and against Liverpool yesterday he played a lovely dummy for Saka's first. Only a matter of time till it does cost you though.
Arsenals main problem is squad depth imo. The drop in quality from Jesus to Nketieh and Partey to Lokonga is a big problem.
Think Nketiah definitely improved the last 4 or 5 months of last season and became a better rounded player than I could ever see him being. Agreed, he's nowhere near Jesus level mind you.
Partey is the big one. Intrigued to see if the club see Danilo being his replacement, if so youd imagine January would be the perfect time to get him considering the Brazilian season ends in November.
Last edited:
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Arsenal will keep winning until people start to call them title contenders... Then they'll stumble all over the place like the regulars of Wetherspoons on a Friday night.
Football heritage.
Yeah but thats partly because of the quality of Jesus and Partey. Its also not Lokonga who is the direct back up for Partey, its Elneny. Plus we are probably going to push hard for Douglas Luiz or Danilo (Palmieras player in January. Partey will play week to week in the league, he wont play and Eurepa games and there are only about 7-8 games left until the window opens again.
Partey could play every game up until then and then the problem be addressed without any material impact. Elneny back form injury and an additional of Luiz/Danilo would give us much more quality and depth. But even still, Partey is one of only two world class holding midfielders in the PL, the other being Rodri. We are worse without him. But then if he were your player you would be much better with him, and therefore much worse without him. its a good problem to have
Last edited:
Think that's a bit more hyoerbole. So no Fabinho, no Casimero, the first 2 that come to my head?
No. Casemiro has been hot and cold and still not considered a regular. Fabinho isnt as good as Partey.
Partey is playing at a much higher level than Casemiro and Fabinho.
6 games played seems like a small sample size to declare Partey the best DM in the PL alongside Rodri.
What are you on about really?
There's a few pretty decent Arsenal posters on this forum, people like you really let the rest of them down.
They've been 2 of the best the past 5 years or so though. We struggle to get Partey to play 5 straight game.
This is why people don’t like Arsenal fans.
He hasn't said anything wrong to be fair. Partey has been better than both Casemiro and Fabinho this season, comfortably.This is why people don’t like Arsenal fans.
Yep, who exactly from that squad is going to get them through those rough patches later in the season? The squad is a combination of very young and inexperienced players (Ødegaard, Saka, Martinelli, White, Ramsdale), and players who have been shown to have dodgy attitudes previously (the likes of Xhaka). In that way, the squad is quite similar to their 2007-2008 squad. Jesus and Zinchenko have won titles with City, but mostly as supporting cast, not leading players.
Will be interesting to see. Even if they manage to keep up a high level of performances for the entire season, they are likely to be beaten by City to the title, though.
Just to play devils advocate, who was established as a winner before Liverpool pushed City in the league all the way?
He didn’t say this season though, unless I missed it somewhere. Both Casemiro and Fabinho are better than Partey on their day. Casemiro has had a slow start as he’s getting up to speed with the PL and a new system once he fully settles in I don’t think it will be even up for debate who’s the better of the two.
Oh no he did say " Partey is playing at a much higher level than Casemiro and Fabinho." --> so I took that as the current moment.
I don't even think the lunatics on AFTV would say Casemiro isn't on Partey's level in general. I hope
He said Partey is one of two world class DM's in the PL. Partey has played 6 games in the PL this season and missed an absolute boat load of games at the end of last season - so he's literally going off of six games. It's mental.
Haha I wouldn’t be too sure, I’m certain I seen a YouTube video just before they played us where big Robbie was trying to argue Partey was better than Casemiro when discussing a combined 11. Never underestimate their delusion, it knows no bounds.Oh no he did say " Partey is playing at a much higher level than Casemiro and Fabinho." --> so I took that as the current moment.
I don't even think the lunatics on AFTV would say Casemiro isn't on Partey's level in general. I hope
He labelled Partey world class, you'd imagine that label would extend beyond a run of about 5 games, and take into account recent seasons. In which case it's absolutely mental to put Partey above or even on level with Casemiro and Fabinho. You could even make a case for Rice having been a regular, solid and consistent fixture in the PL for a few seasons now.Oh no he did say " Partey is playing at a much higher level than Casemiro and Fabinho." --> so I took that as the current moment.
I don't even think the lunatics on AFTV would say Casemiro isn't on Partey's level in general. I hope
It's exactly the kind of Arsenal fan that makes a lot of people dislike them.
Think Rodri, Casemiro, Partey and Fabinho are in the same bracket.
Partey when fit that is..
Fabinho this season though looks very tired. Casemiro should come good, but I guess there's always a risk.
Partey when fit that is..
Fabinho this season though looks very tired. Casemiro should come good, but I guess there's always a risk.
You mean in the 2018/19 season? Arguably none of them, but they had a bunch of players in their prime. I would guess that Salah, Mane, Firmino, van Dijk, Allison, Henderson, Wijnaldum and Fabinho were all in that 26-29 age range at the start of that season.
If you look at Arsenal's current squad none of Gabriel, Saka, Martinelli, Ødegaard, Saliba, White, Ramsdale, Jesus or Tierney are more than 25 years old - a handful them are 20-22. Xhaka and Partey are the only core players in the traditional 'prime' of their careers - one is a tosspot, and the other is an injury waiting to happen.
This might be a meaningless observation - I don't know. It just seems that their squad is not mature enough to really challenge for the title yet.
Rodri and Casemiro are clear in terms of consistently being WC for their positions.
Fabinho, Rice are a tier below - both are WC on their day, but have don’t have the consistency the top two have.
I’d say Hojbjerg is next, and I’d have Partey in this tier. However, if Partey can show his form consistently over a couple of seasons then he would obviously move up.
Fabinho, Rice are a tier below - both are WC on their day, but have don’t have the consistency the top two have.
I’d say Hojbjerg is next, and I’d have Partey in this tier. However, if Partey can show his form consistently over a couple of seasons then he would obviously move up.
We aren't challenging for the title for precisely that reason. You are correct in your assessment of the squad make up, the aim for this squad was always top 4 and just because we've had a good start, let's not get ahead of ourselves here.
To challenge City for the title you likely need a 90+ point team. As far as I'm aware, we've never had a 90+ point team, and I can't see this squad being one yet either. We aren't jumping 20+ points from last season, that's just not realistic for us.
And to be fair, I haven't seen a lot of the resident Arsenal fans on here saying you will win the league, but on the broader interwebz, I'm beginning to see a lot of "Should Arsenal be taken seriously as title contenders?" articles and videos.
You look good value for top four, though. With this start, it would be a massive disappointment not to get it.
Yeah, I've noticed a few myself and just shake my head. I've said a few times now, City are the score I look for last, they aren't even in my thoughts right now.
We've had a good start and I'm happy with it, but we've still got lots to prove. Can we cope with injuries, can we cope with the latter stages of Europa where we will have to play more of our first team, can we avoid defeats at top 6 rivals regularly? None of these have been answered yet
6 points from United (A), Spurs (H) and Liverpool (H) is a great start, even if I think you've had the rub of the green with penalty decisions against Liverpool and the red card for Spurs.
This seems accurate to me as a backward looking assessment - essentially, how good players have been in their careers. Partey has played at a very high level in spurts but never had the consistency and ability to stay healthy to be ranked in a higher tier. I don't see him getting healthier at this point in his career and he obviously has another issue not to be talked about in this thread that could impact his availability as well.
But I don't think I would bet on Casemiro or Fabinho to be better than him going forward (assuming he stays unsuspended for the moment). As the PL became a press heavy, higher tempo league in the last 7-8 years, it has been a complete graveyard for top level central midfielders past 30 - Cazorla was done at 31, Schweinsteiger done at 31, Dembele done at 31, Fabregas done at 31, Matic done as a top level player at 31, Kante seems done as a top level player at 31, same with Jorginho, Thiago is still tidy at 31 but can't really keep up physically, Henderson looks totally cooked having just hit 32, etc. The game is just so physically demanding now for CMs, guys just don't have the legs to keep up past 30 and often their bodies break down as they try. The only real exception during this period was Fernandinho and, likely not coincidentally, he played for a side that other teams gave up trying to press and spends 80% of the game camped in one half of the field rather than going end-to-end all match.
Casemiro is 31 in four months. Until proven otherwise, the safe bet is that he goes on the trajectory of these other CMs and struggles mightily with the physical strains of the PL, never playing at a consistent elite level again. Fabinho will only turn 29 later this month, but he has played an unusually massive number of first team minutes in his career (more than older players like Casemiro, Thiago, or Kante for example) so he seems a likely candidate for an early decline.
The best bets to play at a top level in the PL over the next couple years are Rodri, Guimaraes, and Rice. Hojbjerg is not close to them IMO.
Last edited:
Partey was very consistent at Atletico and hardly ever got injured. I remember reading a stat that said before moving to Arsenal, he had only missed 6 games in Spain or playing for Ghana, in over 200 games. Unfortunately that all changed when he came to us. Perhaps it’s because he’s older, or could be the greater physicality of the PL.
Casemiro is a Ballon d’Orr nominee this year
So you ignore all the top DMs who played well into their 30s to fit your argument
Sounds legit
From Arsenal fans or from neutral sources? I'm sure we have some deluded fans who think we'll challenge but I think most know that our squad is no match for City's. They're going to walk the league
Other than Fernandinho, who are the DMs or true CMs that played at an elite level well into their 30s in the last 7-8 years of PL football (ie, once the league changed quite a lot in terms of the intensity and frequency of pressing by sides up and down the table)?
Yes only include the last 8 years and only include the PL.
Perhaps add a few more filters so you can support your argument?
Another day, another case of Arsenal fans giving it the big un in terms of all their players being the best.
Childlike.
Childlike.
Milner, possibly Can or Wijnaldum