For sure.
Arsenal are a shambles
- Thread starter Josep Dowling
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I'm sure they would have preferred to sign a player for 30 million (net), and have a valuable asset that they can re-sell, instead of losing a valuable asset for nothing.
Sell Van Persie and we get slaughtered for it
Resolve to keep Sanchez and we get slaughtered for it.
How do we find ourselves in these types of situations?
No back up right back at all, very little depth at center back and central midfield. What is Wenger going to do when injuries start to pile up and they will.
Unless the squad starts pulling together, then this could be a bumpy season.
Resolve to keep Sanchez and we get slaughtered for it.
How do we find ourselves in these types of situations?
No back up right back at all, very little depth at center back and central midfield. What is Wenger going to do when injuries start to pile up and they will.
Unless the squad starts pulling together, then this could be a bumpy season.
Never did understand why teams keep players who want to leave. Just Breeds discontent in the dressing room. I think this will be a really long season for asnl...
Where do you think you'll finish in the league with the squad as it is?
How much of the above do you put on Wenger's shoulders? I still find it hard to believe that he willingly sanctioned the move of RVP to United - regardless of what was printed in the media concerning the transfer. I find it even harder to believe that he's happy for Sanchez to join City, and Ox to join the dippers - both in the same transfer window no less. Wenger is no fool and he's certainly not in the business or strengthening his rivals whilst significantly weakening his own team. Something is amiss here.
Are you sure the board are not trumping his authority and sanctioning these move with or without his approval?
As I've said before, I think both are a result of you not selling the idea of success to your players. When Wenger's coming out and talking up finishing 4th as if it's a trophy, it's no wonder players start looking elsewhere.
In both situations you've ended up with key players reaching the final year of their contract, and inevitably find yourself fielding offers from domestic rivals. You could have sold van Persie with far less criticism had he gone abroad, but instead you sold him to us and we won the league almost as a result of how good he was for us. The criticism revolved entirely around how influential he was for us the season he signed.
With Sanchez, you're holding onto him almost solely because you failed to attract a suitable replacement. Again, you'd have received far less criticism if you'd kept him and brought in more quality to strengthen the squad during the window. Instead of it being a statement to other clubs about keeping your best players and aiming to become the best side in England, it's a case of "well we haven't got anyone else so you'll have to stay."
Had you scraped top 4 again last season I think the facade would have remained intact. As it is, everything's started to fall apart because you've spent far too long with far too little ambition, and have treated mediocre players as if they are worth more than they are.
Vieira wanted to leave for years, we kept him and won a bunch of trophies. Once the transfer window is shut and the football starts, then I trust Sanchez to be professional and get on with it.
On the one hand, people say that Wenger is like a dictator and its his fault that the club is riddled with such average players because he oversees every single aspect of the club and his word is law.
On the other hand there are rumors are that the likes of Gabriel, Elneny, Mustafi, Xhaka, Welbeck and Perez were signed without Wenger's approval and that is why he got rid of four of them, in some show of force.
Aside from hearsay, Nasri himself said that Wenger wanted to keep him, so the board clearly went over his head with that one. He's also come out and said that the club had to make a profit up to 2012/15, the year changes. There are also rumors that Kroenke is taking out loans using the club's assets as collateral.
There was also the time Park Chu Young came on at home against Man Utd at the same time that an Asian advertisement came up on the billboards.
Wenger himself constantly comes out with some cryptic messages at time to the effect that something happened behind the scenes and he will talk about it at one point.
I don't know what to make of it in all honesty but to my mind three things are possible. 1. Wenger is complicit with the board's actions, 2. They are going over his head but because of his love for the club he's decided to make the best of it and 3. Wenger has control of everything.
In a perfect world, third and above spurs. In reality 5th, 4th if we're lucky and don't have any major injuries. I want us to concentrate fully on Europa league but that won't happen and I can't see us getting past Ac Milan or Athletic Bilbao.
I think you're being wildly optimistic with those league finish predictions.
I think Arsenal should concentrate on the Europa. It fecks your league form up but I don't see Arsenal getting top 4 anyway, you've proved you're a very good cup side in recent years. I could see you doing well in it.
Yes we could have and should have sold Van Persie abroad, blame the board and Wenger for taking the money instead of accepting Juventus' lower offer. It was penny wise and pound foolish. Yes it was more cash upfront but with little regard for the optics of the situation in the eyes of our fans and the reputation of the club as a whole. Its one thing for Chelsea to sell Mata to Man Utd, an important player but not their most important and its another to sell your club captain and best player. Of course in hindsight its easy to say the criticism is because of how he played and the truth is, if Van Persie had suffered a serious injury on his first day at training, then everyone would have called it a Wenger masterstroke.
Regarding Sanchez, we didn't improve by signing more quality but by keeping him we haven't made a rival stronger, nor have we weakened ourselves. Fan outrage would be 100 times worse if we had sold him today and brought in no one, but that's a moot point as, se queda.
I agree with that last paragraph. If we had spend our money before transfer prices got out of control, we would be in a much better place. The club has far too long been reactionary and not proactive. We waited for the bubble to burst when Abramovich came along, then City's owners and now look at us. It doesn't help that our commercial team is incompetent and our deals lag behind other top clubs.
Wenger in 2016: "Pogba fee is crazy"
Also Wenger in 2017: Bids £92M for Lemar
...people whined and cried about Pogba's transfer and clubs are now spending/offering up the same money on players with half his talent. It's ridiculous all a player needs to do is have a 1 great year in France and teams will be ready to splash big money on them. Pogba did infinitely more to prove his worth so feck off with anyone who's still bitter. Just look at these prices, absolutely mad. United signed Pogba, Lukaku, Matic at the right time. Even Martial people laughed at the £38M+£20M add ons and here people are ready to splash €100M+ on Lemar
José knows.
Also Wenger in 2017: Bids £92M for Lemar
...people whined and cried about Pogba's transfer and clubs are now spending/offering up the same money on players with half his talent. It's ridiculous all a player needs to do is have a 1 great year in France and teams will be ready to splash big money on them. Pogba did infinitely more to prove his worth so feck off with anyone who's still bitter. Just look at these prices, absolutely mad. United signed Pogba, Lukaku, Matic at the right time. Even Martial people laughed at the £38M+£20M add ons and here people are ready to splash €100M+ on Lemar
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José knows.
It's not that crazy to expect a club to go to lengths to keep their best player(s).
Plus he is a guarantee in the national starting eleven. I bet he feints a bunch of injuries in Feb onwards and miraculously recover by June next year.
Its all about Russia this season.
Hey no matter what we at least got rid of Ox, who is easily my most hated player in the whole of my football-proper life (2012-present).
I don't wanna embark on a giant TLDR missive here so I'll say that Ox is a playet with a £50mil football body and a 50p foot all brain. The absolute epitomes of all things Ox are twofold:
1) in one of the 2014 world cup tune-up games for England Ox had a majestic ~60-75yd run across the field where he blew past countless defenders and showed his truly world/class pace as he glided like a gazelle across the field..... Only to promptly get to the edge of the opponent's box and immediateky hoof a pass/cross/something out of bounds ~15+ ft in the air and another ~10+ft wide of goal.
Then appx ~15mins later ox pulled up lame and managed to pull a calf or hammy or something and promptly missed the entire World Cup tournament as a result! #ThatsMyOx!
2) A few years ago in Arsenal's CL RO16 1st leg against Monaco despite Arsenal stopping short of Martin Tyler christening them "the more deserving side" (being on a great run of form that started with Coquelin's recall + breakout alongside Santi Cazorla in the midfield) Arsenal was typically Arsenal in not being to convert any of the endless waves of attack that they crashed down upon Monaco whilst Monaco clinically converted two rare counters to make the score Arsenal 0-2 Monaco heading into ST.
In the first minute of ST the Ox managed to score a goal for Arsenal to make it 1-2, and this was a huge boost because the 2nd leg was in Monaco so only having a 1 goal deficit (especially with 2 Monaco away goals) was of paramount importance. Ox was so pleased with his 90+1' goal that a few mins later he made a lackadaisical awful super-long pass around midfield that was intercepted by Monaco, who immediately turned that wayward pass into a counter/break that they once again clinically converted to give Monaco a 1-3 lead in the final 5-15 seconds of ST.
Arsenal would go on to win the 2nd leg 2-0, meaning that Monaco advanced on away goals (more specifically that 3rd goal that Ox handed them) -- #RememberMonaco!
Ah well, I went more long-winded than I wanted to, and i still only scratched the surface on how many examples of Ox being a dumbarse I can give you. Hell, similar to the Monaco story in one of those Buyern CL beatdowns last season he even managed one of those egregious "Game's over / WGAF?" type turnovers to give Thomas Muller his first goal since the Third Reich. Seriously he was on a massive goal drought at the time and go figure it took "AOC"/Ox to get him out of it.
Bar none he's the most (football-)selfish player I've seen in my years watching football, and no matter how bad it gets for Arsenal this season I can always hold my head up high and smile knowing that on 30 August 2017 Arsenal dodged a massive bullet by not signing ox for 5+ years at 180k/week+ --- that would have been a huge step towards Arsenal [formally] pulling a Liverpool..... And look where Ox ended up FFS!
"It's like poetry; it rhymes!" - George Lucas
I don't wanna embark on a giant TLDR missive here so I'll say that Ox is a playet with a £50mil football body and a 50p foot all brain. The absolute epitomes of all things Ox are twofold:
1) in one of the 2014 world cup tune-up games for England Ox had a majestic ~60-75yd run across the field where he blew past countless defenders and showed his truly world/class pace as he glided like a gazelle across the field..... Only to promptly get to the edge of the opponent's box and immediateky hoof a pass/cross/something out of bounds ~15+ ft in the air and another ~10+ft wide of goal.
Then appx ~15mins later ox pulled up lame and managed to pull a calf or hammy or something and promptly missed the entire World Cup tournament as a result! #ThatsMyOx!
2) A few years ago in Arsenal's CL RO16 1st leg against Monaco despite Arsenal stopping short of Martin Tyler christening them "the more deserving side" (being on a great run of form that started with Coquelin's recall + breakout alongside Santi Cazorla in the midfield) Arsenal was typically Arsenal in not being to convert any of the endless waves of attack that they crashed down upon Monaco whilst Monaco clinically converted two rare counters to make the score Arsenal 0-2 Monaco heading into ST.
In the first minute of ST the Ox managed to score a goal for Arsenal to make it 1-2, and this was a huge boost because the 2nd leg was in Monaco so only having a 1 goal deficit (especially with 2 Monaco away goals) was of paramount importance. Ox was so pleased with his 90+1' goal that a few mins later he made a lackadaisical awful super-long pass around midfield that was intercepted by Monaco, who immediately turned that wayward pass into a counter/break that they once again clinically converted to give Monaco a 1-3 lead in the final 5-15 seconds of ST.
Arsenal would go on to win the 2nd leg 2-0, meaning that Monaco advanced on away goals (more specifically that 3rd goal that Ox handed them) -- #RememberMonaco!
Ah well, I went more long-winded than I wanted to, and i still only scratched the surface on how many examples of Ox being a dumbarse I can give you. Hell, similar to the Monaco story in one of those Buyern CL beatdowns last season he even managed one of those egregious "Game's over / WGAF?" type turnovers to give Thomas Muller his first goal since the Third Reich. Seriously he was on a massive goal drought at the time and go figure it took "AOC"/Ox to get him out of it.
Bar none he's the most (football-)selfish player I've seen in my years watching football, and no matter how bad it gets for Arsenal this season I can always hold my head up high and smile knowing that on 30 August 2017 Arsenal dodged a massive bullet by not signing ox for 5+ years at 180k/week+ --- that would have been a huge step towards Arsenal [formally] pulling a Liverpool..... And look where Ox ended up FFS!
"It's like poetry; it rhymes!" - George Lucas
Err... we kept Ronaldo longer than he would have liked.
Everton will finish ahead of Arsenal this season.
Agree but Arsenal's problem is that you have the perfect storm brewing in the near horizon:
1) A waning manager who has two year contract and chances that he will leave -- what player wants to come into a squad that he has no idea who the next manager will be and could be played out of position or not played at all.
2) There are four players who contracts are running out in a year's time.
3) Out of the CL -- tougher to attract top tier players unless you pay through your teeth
4) It's the WC year. Players can go missing saving themselves up for the summer.
How do you buy new players or rebuild under those conditions in the next two years or Post-Wenger? You cant hire from within (so as to reduce any player upheavals or similar playing styles, see United) because Wenger just doesnt do succession planning as in name one ex-Arsenal manager out there?
In other words, you will be making less money going forward in an ever increasingly hyper-inflationary transfer market. How do you prepare for a Post-Wenger Arsenal?
They are missing a striker or two.
I don't know how Arsenal fans can cope with this. I'd have to separate myself from football for a while. This is not the first time they've come to deadline day looking disorganised. And frankly, I can't imagine this season will go any different for Arsenal than the last 6 or 7. Signs of life by late September/October, looking seriously good by November, only to be followed by a post-Christmas collapse. Groundhog day.
Dunno man.... That one season of Moyes was like highly concentrated soul sapping pill.
Wenger is just lik watching slow death on TV but at least it gives you time to prepare for the inevitable.
"That money was just resting in my account."
Post 4-0 Liverpool, Henry has been saying that match was a culmination of 10 years of decline etc, but I remember him defending Cazorla and Coquelin as potential title winning centre midfielders. Gaz has been talking about Arsenal not being contenders for a few years now. He's been calling it since before it's in vogue.
Yeah what happened to him? Him, a non whiny bitching Sanchez, Ozil covering more than 6kms a match, that new beefy cnut in midfield properly putting himself about, Lackazet on fire, drop Xhaka NOW, Cech roasting the defence regularly, Ramsey not being gash, a team bonding 4 day bender in which they laugh cry and go for each other's throats, and Arsenal could yet do some damage in the league.
Reading this reminded me of Chunk confessing 'everything' to the Fratellis.
It's a bit different, isn't it? Ronaldo wanted to leave but he agreed to stay and kept his standards and didn't play like he wanted to leave. Ozil and Sanchez play like they don't care.
Sanchez scored 20 plus league goals and helped win a cup.
He's still performed even though he's wanted out.
The biggest problem is still Arsene Wenger staying in the club for I don't know how longer. Like I don't know what is he waiting or trying to achieve in his last years, rebuild yet again another team, winning a league or waiting to be kicked. Normally it would be a good thing to keep Alexis but with him ahead don't think he's signing a new contract so it's really pointless and it would have been better if both Alexis and Arsene had left the club already.
Fair enough, he's performed. But he doesn't care. He hasn't since the middle of last season. His attitude has been rotten and you can sense it in the squad and the whole club. It's not the same as Ronaldo.
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Not if they want to challenge for the title or even get back in the CL. Arsenal want him to perform and he'll do that but they need him to want to perform for the club and the team. Success is not built on successful stats on an individual player. His attitude is a problem. How can you expect a team to succeed when one of the biggest players in it clearly doesn't believe in the team. That's the difference between Sanchez and Ronaldo.
They've somehow gotten out of this transfer window with their squad strenghtened. Ox is not a big loss for them but they've managed to keep Ozil and Sanchez too. If Wenger gets his tactics right, they could still be dangerous.
This.
On paper Arsenal still have a very good side. Remains to be seen whether Wenger can keep them motivated throughout the season.
You're being too kind on us saying 4th and 5th, we'd be lucky to finish 6th. It was only a matter of time before Wenger's strange 3 at the back, with playing wrong people at the wrong wings, got found out by a solid team.
Also its obvious Wenger is complicit in the board's actions and I'll give you two reasons why:
-he interviewed Gazidis himself, someone who he shouldn't have interviewed as Gazidis is above his level. So the person who can sack Wenger was hired by Wenger
-Even if the board went over his head he's not staying for the 'love of club to make the best of it', he's getting £8 million a year (one of the highest salaries in the world for any manager) and he is getting salughtered now for years while taking the club backwards by every passing month. Every 5 year old can see he's past it now and if every 5 year old can see he's past it then a 3 time PL winning Manager surely know his time is up as well. So what is he making the best of? Me and you can set up our team better and get better results than some of the basic mistakes he's been making
As for Europa, a past-it AC Milan killed us off a few years back. So did Monaco, any team with a semi-competent plan will slaughter us. Never mind properly set up teams in Europe.
My post is not a pop at you, you're a good poster, but Wenger is complicit in it all. The best way he can make the best of it is by resigning and telling everyone the truth that hey the board is running it all and I don't have a say. Not only will he get immense respect but the board will come under the cosh because Wenger is saying it. But not only is he not doing that but him and the board publicly back each other and say dear Arsene runs it all. Which really is the case.
It's still going to benefit them more than £60m in the bank would because he will provide goals and assists, something money wouldn't have done. If they could replace him, even with someone inferior but still good, they'd have done well but this wasn't an option when Lemar turned them down.
I agree I expect them to challenge for top 4.
They're in a crisis at the moment but the crisis is somewhat artificial.
In reality, their squad is no weaker than it was at the start of the window.
They're in a crisis at the moment but the crisis is somewhat artificial.
In reality, their squad is no weaker than it was at the start of the window.
All depends if Arsenal get his tactics right, they needed a DM badly I reckon. If they started with this team against Liverpool(i know it's all useless now but still)
Cech
Bellerin-Kosclieny-Mustafi/Chambers/Monreal-Kolasinac
Coquelin/Elneny-Xhaka
Ramsey-Ozil-Sanchez
Lacazette
then they might have stood a better chance. However Wenger has lost it and still to arrogant to change. His interview the other day where he said that he'll use 2nd team in Europa League just proved his wrong mentality.
Maybe on paper, with the additions of Kolasinic and Lacazette, but I don't think it's ideal for a team that is routinely questioned about their mental strength to be stuck with Sanchez, who clearly wanted out, Mustafi, who Wenger was happy to sell, and with Ozil (and Sanchez again) in the last year of their contract.
Both Ozil and Sanchez could sign for other clubs in January too.
They might be stronger on paper, but I think they may well struggle this year to turn that into points.
Losing Ox isn't a loss whatsoever so I think they have had an ok transfer window given that they managed to hold onto both Ozil and Sanchez.