Arsenal's title credentials...

Grinner

Not fat gutted. Hirsuteness of shoulders TBD.
Staff
Joined
May 5, 2003
Messages
72,329
Location
I love free dirt and rocks!
Supports
Arsenal
I am well jealous of your new stadium JazzG. And now that you've nearly paid it all off, will be even more jealous as you will have pots and pots of money to spend within club budget. Wenger's done a sterling job of keeping Arsenal near the top, but not right up at the top (probably an impossible task for anyone bar Ferguson).

My 'concern' with Wenger is has he become too entrenched in that behaviour over the last ten years? Habits are a bitch to shake off sometimes. The signing of Ozil was a bit out of the blue admittedly but was it a one off (or 'panic buy' as I probably incorrectly called it earlier)?

Your opinion is wrong and daft. We've had tight money for years and as soon as we get some he splashes it. How hard is that for you to comprehend?
 

Gladiator

Full Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
2,586
Cesc I respect your opinion, I would expect him to make a difference when he plays. He is worth 40 million plus. I'm talking abut when I have sat down to watch, it is telling that I can come away with this opinion. Against us, City and Liverpool he was a passenger for the majority of the matches. He still has that ability to play a defence splitting pass out of nowhere, he has great movement but he isn't a good finisher. I rate Ozil these are just thongs I have noticed abut him. He looks like he can't be asked at times. For me Ramsey has been better, so has your back two. You don't pay 42 million for a player to see you through against West Ham, that is a given. He has only been here 6 months and I expect he will be a great signing, these are just things I have picked up on.

Jazz Scholes played a few roles in his career to a hgh level, early on he was a goal scoring midfielder. He was scoring in double figures every year and later on when he dropped deeper he became the player who ran the game for us. Scholes set the tempo for the whole attack, a deep lying playmaker in every sense. His whole career it has been very clear what Scholes has been been about. I agree he has made others better, the same way Van Persie did for us, quality players have that affect. He moves around well and gets into good positions, I agree he need to learn how to capitalise on them. If he improves his finishing and stamina he will go up a level.
I think the other problem is that fans have a tendency to follow the ball when watching play. What Ozil does off the ball is very interesting and just as important what he does on it.
 

Cal?

CR7 fan
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
34,977
Not quite sure how to respond to this....

Lets be honest Cal, Chelsea having your favourite manager Mourinho is the reason you want them to win.
I have preferred them to Arsenal for a while now, certainly before Mourinho's return.
 

Dumbstar

We got another woman hater here.
Joined
Jul 18, 2002
Messages
21,286
Location
Viva Karius!
Supports
Liverpool
Your opinion is wrong and daft. We've had tight money for years and as soon as we get some he splashes it. How hard is that for you to comprehend?
There had been claims of money being available from a few seasons (one season) back. Owners said one thing, manager said another. Not sure what the truth was. I guess this January and the summer will tell us more. My mind can be changed then. :)
 

JaffyJoe

Provides RedCafe with shit Twitter news
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Messages
5,329
I think the other problem is that fans have a tendency to follow the ball when watching play. What Ozil does off the ball is very interesting and just as important what he does on it.

True, his movement does create space like I have noted and he realises that. So he may take himself away from the ball but he is taking the attentions of one or two players with him. On the ball he has more to offer is just my opinion.k
 

Gladiator

Full Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
2,586
True, his movement does create space like I have noted and he realises that. So he may take himself away from the ball but he is taking the attentions of one or two players with him. On the ball he has more to offer is just my opinion.k
Ah yeah that's fair Joe. I was just trying to state the importance of what players do off the ball. Players like him, Kagawa, Mata, Cazorla, Silva all move very well off the ball. However it seems that people only pick this up when they perform well even though they're still making similar movements even if their performance was not that great. it's this absolutist, glorifying the end product sort of view that bothers me.

I've seen the same people pay lip service to Ozil's "phenomenal movement" where he sort of steals the show but in a quieter performance, he's just plain shit, even though he's pulling defenders left and right with his movements. I'm not saying these movements justify a great performance but the importance of these movements should not be discounted just because a player didn't perform all that well in terms of goals/assists/overall productivity.
 

JazzG

Resident Arse.
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
2,682
I am well jealous of your new stadium JazzG. And now that you've nearly paid it all off, will be even more jealous as you will have pots and pots of money to spend within club budget. Wenger's done a sterling job of keeping Arsenal near the top, but not right up at the top (probably an impossible task for anyone bar Ferguson).

My 'concern' with Wenger is has he become too entrenched in that behaviour over the last ten years? Habits are a bitch to shake off sometimes. The signing of Ozil was a bit out of the blue admittedly but was it a one off (or 'panic buy' as I probably incorrectly called it earlier)?
I'll have to correct you on the stadium finance because it isn't anywhere near paid off, I believe we took out a loan which is due to mature in 2031 so the stadium will be paid off bit by bit until then, think there is still currently over £200mill to be paid off yet. So we've got cash in the bank, a loan secured on the stadium and no other big borrowings that I'm aware of. I think 2014 was a big year for us because of the new shirt sponsors, Emirates already upped their sponsorship and the deal with Puma also will increase our income significantly. The original Nike & Emirates deal were front loaded, so a lot of the money was paid upfront back in ~2002 so we would use it to secure funding on the stadium.

I'd agree there would be a strong case for it being a labelled panic buy if we had not put in a £40mill bid for Suarez in July, it was clear early this summer that the club and Wenger was willing to spend big for the right talent. He's made a fair few mistakes in his time here but I think now we understand the constraints that were on him he kept (albeit barely last couple of seasons) us in the CL which has helped on the money side a lot.

With Ozil was up until the end of August I don't think anyone thought he would be leaving R.Madrid, IIRC a meeting in late August with the management he decided he wanted to leave. I believe the coach wanted to keep Di Maria instead, funnily enough plenty of rumours about him possibly leaving as well at the moment! The Suarez & Higuain thing were going on at the same time and we had to make a choice, Suarez clearly was the superior player so went all in for him but failed at that. I don't think we'll get any big name in January, more likely a loan deal and then make a move in the summer. Fans will be crying out for a big signing now but you can't force a club to sell and a player to leave when they don't want to!

FWIW, I appreciate someone replying without snidiness or a feeling of internet-superiority.
I like to think I'm superior to everyone in real life rather than the internet ;)
 

Rooney in Paris

Gerrard shirt..Anfield? You'll Never Live it Down
Scout
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
36,126
Location
In an elephant sanctuary
I agree with most of your quote Jazz, but just snorted at this part:
During this time you never heard Wenger complain,
That's all Wenger ever does! :lol: Maybe you meant 'didn't complain about his management/the owners', in which case it's fair as he was a model employee during those years (probably always keeping an eye on the endgame, ie when the new stadium would be built), but all Wenger does is moan about one thing or another.
 

M'n'M

"Keane will be awesome alongside Torres."
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
4,682
Nah, you've just been the biggest Mourinho cocksucker on here ever since he was appointed.
Without having read the whole thread am I the only one who thinks that Mourinho no longer has any of charm or charisma that they say he had in his first stint in English football? I have never liked him but I could see how some did, whereas now, he just comes across as a grumpy old man. The short grey hair has reduced him to looking, well, old.
 

JazzG

Resident Arse.
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
2,682
Hopefully he'll make the bench and get 20 minutes against the Villa.
That will be good for him, important to ease him in because with Theo out the last thing we want is to get another long term injury rushing anyone back. Some rumours yesterday or Ramsey possibly being fit

That's all Wenger ever does! :lol: Maybe you meant 'didn't complain about his management/the owners', in which case it's fair as he was a model employee during those years (probably always keeping an eye on the endgame, ie when the new stadium would be built), but all Wenger does is moan about one thing or another.
Yeah that was what I meant, he took a lot of stick but never went out and deflected the blame to the board or owners.
 

alastair

ignorant
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
16,310
Location
The Champions League
I'm taking solace in the fact it's at home.

The only team that will benefit from all of this is Chelsea. Yes, they've got City away, but if you compare the fixture lists of City and Arsenal to the one Chelsea have, they will be looking to get a 3-5 point lead over us both by mid-March.
 

Grinner

Not fat gutted. Hirsuteness of shoulders TBD.
Staff
Joined
May 5, 2003
Messages
72,329
Location
I love free dirt and rocks!
Supports
Arsenal
I'm taking solace in the fact it's at home.

The only team that will benefit from all of this is Chelsea. Yes, they've got City away, but if you compare the fixture lists of City and Arsenal to the one Chelsea have, they will be looking to get a 3-5 point lead over us both by mid-March.
It's going to be an expensive, exciting month for the fans though. I should take a vacation and finally get to the Emirates! Could you get me tickets?
 

Dumbstar

We got another woman hater here.
Joined
Jul 18, 2002
Messages
21,286
Location
Viva Karius!
Supports
Liverpool
So the fixture list now looks like:

Pool (A) PL, then 4 days later
Munich (?) CL, then 4 days later
Pool (H) FA Cup, then 4 days later
Man Utd (A?) PL

Maybe Arsenal fans will see some silverware next sesaon. I foretold Arsene should have treated the Carling Cup with more priority (against a weak, shit Chelsea 2nd XI at the time) earlier in this thread. Arsenal will have to send out their 3rd XI against us and I can't see us not putting out our strongest XI as we'll have our usual weekly rest.
 

peterstorey

Specialist In Failure
Joined
Nov 16, 2002
Messages
37,293
Location
'It's for the Arsenal and we're going to Wembley'
It's going to be an expensive, exciting month for the fans though. I should take a vacation and finally get to the Emirates! Could you get me tickets?
If you get red membership (£30 I think) you can get tix to most games - especially singles, though the seats can be a bit rough. If you're coming let us know and I'll see what I can do - a nice pint is yours at least.
 

Grinner

Not fat gutted. Hirsuteness of shoulders TBD.
Staff
Joined
May 5, 2003
Messages
72,329
Location
I love free dirt and rocks!
Supports
Arsenal
If you get red membership (£30 I think) you can get tix to most games - especially singles, though the seats can be a bit rough. If you're coming let us know and I'll see what I can do - a nice pint is yours at least.
Lovely, cheers! Can we bring Alastair along too?
 

Fortitude

TV/Monitor Expert
Scout
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
23,342
Location
Inside right
If Arsenal manage to win the league this season with the fixture list they have, you'd have to applaud them.
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
53,523
Location
Hope, We Lose
Holy shit has anyone seen his comments today refuting Mourinho's comments about Arsenal having an advantage because they had a day extra to rest? He went full Benitez on a fact base factual rant about facts and not opinions. If I recall Benitez' factual meltdown was when his team were finally around the top of the league and he took the chance to go on a rant while he could, is Wenger doing the same?