I won't question your ratings but all I can say is you have very broad tiers if you think Sagnol is just below top tier. I don't even put Alves there
Auction Draft QF : EAP vs. Don Alfredo/Enigma
- Thread starter Indnyc
- Start date
I rate Chumpitaz higher. Especially considering both team set ups and how they will fare against the opposition.
That's a perfect front 4 for EAP. I'm not sure the rest of the team matches up and I'm a sucker for a Cruyff team. Can't quite make up my mind here.
Personally I think Chumpitaz had more things up his armor but Picchi, who organized probably one of the best defensive units of all times was the better pure defensive prowess wise.
Its a perfect team for Cruyff as well with the player types that would suit his game and much superior defensive unit that he used to play with (apart from Krol of course). He would relish playing alongside that core and is the best player on the park - likely the one to make the difference
Maybe it’s just me but I don’t really rate him that high. I’d give you the organisational skills but our front trio plus Iniesta is a terrible match up for his style and is bound to give him a torrid time. Especially with Edgar’s team being constantly on the back foot and with no DM there will be lots of pockets of space that Xaviesta are known to exploit best.
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Mackay is same mould of Keane and Blanchflower was a half back. Both are DMs.
I'd rather both ahead of Silva. Both tactically and player fit, Silva is the odd man out.
Re: Silva - he really isn’t. You haven’t watched him that much from what I gather.Mackay is same mould of Keane and Blanchflower was a half back. Both are DMs.
I'd rather both ahead of Silva. Both tactically and player fit, Silva is the odd man out.
Neither Mackay or Blanchflower we’re your typical DM’s.
My concerns with your team are mostly on the flanks. I'm not sure how well Rivaldo fits into this system as I just feel he's at his best when most of the play goes through him, which is exactly what Cruyff would want as well. Simonsen might work I guess. I think he just missed playing with Cruyff for Barcelona, but as a left footed forward I think he works fine here. The fullbacks fit the system but Best and Matthews are excellent wingers who can give even better fullbacks a torrid time.Its a perfect team for Cruyff as well with the player types that would suit his game and much superior defensive unit that he used to play with (apart from Krol of course). He would relish playing alongside that core and is the best player on the park - likely the one to make the difference
We will have the control of the game so there will be enough time on the ball for both Rivaldo and Cruyff. Rivaldo fits the style and also individually is surrounded with a lot of selfless players to provide the stage.
Edgar won’t have many opportunities here on the ball and we would have far more chances to win the game.
Also as mentioned our CB are well equipped to dealing with the wide threat of required.
@Edgar Allan Pillow i can see the comparison given the style of play its just that i rate Scholes as comfortably better in every segment of the game from the little we saw from Blanchflower.
I touched upon this before. Xaviesta's influence would be undeniable, but then having Rivaldo and Silva would not really enhance the good to great. Rivaldo would want the ball and is a very direct player. I just don't see him as complementary to Xaviesta/Cruyff. Same with Silva. They still will play good football, but nowhere near Barca/Spain level.
Charlton, Best and Matthews have the biggest advantage by facing weakest opponents and that is something even his good CB pair can't really account for.
A typical destroyer DM would struggle against Xaviesta. They'll just pass around him. But with the intelligent tactical DMs like Mackay/Blanchflower, I'm better placed to cut off passing avenues and try to stifle the passing game. Against your team, this is the best type of DM duo to have.
I'd say Blanchflower is definitely defensively better and a better tackler. Scholes is more likely to move further up the field and has a better shot. From a playmaking point of view, I'd say Scholes has the edge, but simply because of different in tactics.
That’s nonsense. As I said I think aren’t really familiar with Silva nd already addressed that.
You still haven’t answered how do you stop our attackers from running away with it.
Both aren’t the best of fits to do what you are expecting them to do. Mackay is better one but still you are looking exposed there.
Matthews and Best won’t provide anything in the defensive phase and Sagnol and Bossis will be overwhelmed.
Both Mackay and Blanchflower are on the slow side and probably my critique is that they lack agility. Your wingers won’t contribute anything and you will be outnumbered in the middle and on the flanks whilst defending deep.
I've seen enough of Silva to know for sure he doesn't fit the rest of that midfield.
Seriously? How "agile" was Carrick, Alonso, Busquets or Falcao? Agility is not a characteristic I'd associate with Registas. The importance of Busquets to Xaviesta or Alonso to that Liverpool team or even Carrick to United cannot be denied by "not agile".
Then you haven’t seen enough
How did the final will Carrick ended against Xaviesta?
It’s good if some of the neutrals that have put in votes to comment how they see the game will play out as it’s mostly me and Edgar so far.
I really fancy Edgar's wingers here they should roast Enigma's full backs, I also don't think Rivaldo is optimal playing with a false 9, you need the wide man to be a goal scoring wing-forward, while Rivaldo was more of a play-maker. I thought MJJ got it perfect in his team with Stoichkov and Rummenige and Pele in the false 9/9.5.
But on the other hand Cruyff is the best player on the pitch and can see him having a good game and obviously Xaviesta is always a great combo. Will try and decide later.
But on the other hand Cruyff is the best player on the pitch and can see him having a good game and obviously Xaviesta is always a great combo. Will try and decide later.
Thought the same in my game to be fair, how can you improve if you don’t know where it’s going wrong.
Looking at this, I just think eap defence is too weak to deal with your attack.
Your defence and midfield is stronger.
Just take a look at the individual battles.
George Best vs Dani Alves - Georgie Boy is clearly the better player and would get the upper hand.
Stanley Matthews vs Abidal - Matthews would roast Abidal with his pace and trickery. Again I have upper hand.
Bobby Charlton vs Mauro Silva - No question who is getting the upper hand here.
Except for his 2 CB's the rest of his defence is weaker than my attack. And both his CBs are not really the type to drift wide to support the fullbacks.
Cruyff may be the best forward in pitch, but the records of Trinity is the best goal threat there too. 365 goals in 293 matches is something that Ajax never achieved even at Cruyff's peak. If you are looking purely at goal threat, I have better threat against his weaker defence.
It doesn't really work like that.
Again the mechanics of the game are quite different - you won't get much time on the ball and our forwards will have much more chances here to convert.
Dani Alves is by far the best full back on the pitch. Both our CB's are better than yours. Our midfield is better, Cruyff is the best forward on the pitch - that an entire spine.
Your wingers won't help your midfield and it would be easily overloaded.
Dani Alves / Simonsen and Rivaldo / Abidal with the ball will stretch your defensive line opening spaces for Iniesta and Cruyff in the middle.
It really isn't 1 vs 1 like you try to present it.
Aye, thanks for your input mate. I'm a bit overloaded here and also with work etc, but will definitely look into your game as well!
I reckon people still confuse between Total Football vs Tiki Taka:
- Player vs Ball: Cruyff the player's peak was in Total Football which was all about movement of players whilst Cruyff the manager's peak was early version of tiki-taka which was about movement of the ball.
- Direct vs Possession: Cruyff's the players peak was surrounded by direct players like Neeskens & Van Hanegem, not possession players like Xaviesta.
We aren't playing either, but a style that suits both Xaviesta and Cruyff. Already explained in the OP. Also if you look at how Cruyff explains his tactics and his 4-3-3 (the dream team) his vision is exactly how the foundations of the modern day Barca teams were build.
Pep was his disciple in fact and followed his vision, unless we rewrite history here.
This is laughably funny when you assume that just by picking Xaviesta you'll get huge possession advantage and deny my team time on the ball. Even when playing against United in CL finals, the possession was spilt 53-47 or something like that. And you don't even has Busquets to complete that midfield. Possession will be split equally this match.
Will your CBs be facing my CBs? I just don't see the value in direct comparisons when vs opponents should be the ideal way to go.
Again, quite a bad attempt to distract. Sagnol will have influence similar to Alves. And Bossis is a far far better player than Abidal.
Not even close. This was Cruyff Barcelona 4-3-3. Guardiola was the brains that made the formation work. You have Mauro Silva there. Bull in a china shop!
And that midfield is nothing even remotely similar to modern Barca tiki-taka. It's just a tactical mish mash here. Only the intelligence of Cruyff and chemistry of Xaviesta will hold this together from descending into chaos.
Anyway, I'm done. Time for neutrals to take this forward.
Good debate both, I’ll read it more thorough when I get chance in hour or so.
You both seem rather convincing.
Now I’m edging towards the donigma team but EAP argument
You both seem rather convincing.
Now I’m edging towards the donigma team but EAP argument
Not in terms of personnel and we're not doing an exact replica as already said.Not even close. This was Cruyff Barcelona 4-3-3. Guardiola was the brains that made the formation work. You have Mauro Silva there. Bull in a china shop!
And that midfield is nothing even remotely similar to modern Barca tiki-taka. It's just a tactical mish mash here. Only the intelligence of Cruyff and chemistry of Xaviesta will hold this together from descending into chaos.
You keep banging on Silva which is your only point so far and you haven't really watched the guy considering all your claims...
I'm yet to hear how Edgar's team will cope with the movement of our forwards or generally how he will cope in the defensive phase. So far there is zero plan for that. His formation is even close to 4-2-4 and will be pinned down defending most of the time.
Best and Matthews offer little to nothing tracking the full backs and protecting the flanks.
It's not total football. It's not tiki-taka. You've just put some players from both styles together with others who don't fit either style.
- Alves peak was in high line defence, whilst Figueroa/Chumpitaz have no exposure to that.
- Xaviesta & Alves played possession football, but none others in team have. Silva and Rivaldo are direct misfits to the rest of the team.
- Cruyff's peak was in Total Football and direct game play which suits Rivaldo, but not Xaviesta.
There is no synergy to your team. As you say, you must be playing some revolutionary tactics that none of us have ever seen before.
No really rocket science there. You have a lot of players who like to drift/operate centrally. Alves is probably your only 'true' source of width.
You have a back 4 and 2 DMs ahead. Be it advancing Xaviesta or withdrawing Cruyff, they are facing a already packed midfield. Kohler/Bossis will try to handle whoever has the ball whilst Picchi will sweep behind. Kohler's is a good fit for Rivaldo whilst Picchi's defensive intelligence will be good fit against Cruyff's offensive game.
Enigma's players are all in the right position, the question I think is how good is Mauro Silva as a DLP? And if this is more direct, than the Barca side which I think it is, how will Iniesta fair? Xavi has worked in more direct setups before. I don't see Chumpitaz and Figueroa having much of a problem in a high-line given their pace. I don't know of intelligent readers of the game with pace who have failed in a high line.
With respect to EAP, I really think he could do with a B2B alongside Mackay or Blanchflower. Like with Stiles and Xabi there seems to be a big gap between them and Charlton. So Charlton could be forced deeper leaving the front three without the central guile to create chances.
With respect to EAP, I really think he could do with a B2B alongside Mackay or Blanchflower. Like with Stiles and Xabi there seems to be a big gap between them and Charlton. So Charlton could be forced deeper leaving the front three without the central guile to create chances.
Mackay is mould of Billy Bremer and Keane. He was one man midfield moster for the most successful Spurs team. Just take a look at Gio's post earlier that I quoted:
They have the workrate, passing and steel to run this game from the deep. And they did that in a back 3 WM. In a modern back 4 they have relatively safer backline and so can run the midfield better.
So instead of focusing on your team and tactics your angle is try to dismiss our team?
Pretty much every poster that commented so far have no problems with the set up.
I guess negative tactics are working for some of the voters given you don't really want to engage with how your defensive plan is and how you are going to stop our forwards from deciding the game when it's blatantly obvious that we will have the majority of chances and possession...
Thanks for your input mate, finally some questions in regards to Edgar's set up.
I'd also like to add how his wingers will provide no defensive cover creating lots of space for our forwards. Neither Best nor, Matthews were known for tracking back and their defensive contribution. He's trying to depict the game as a static one, but in transitions he's lacking both in central midfield and at the flanks!
I have to showcase flaws in your team. Surely that's part having a match thread?
The gap between my wingers vs your fullbacks it THE BIGGEST margin in our favour. Picchi/Kohler is both tactically and physically a good match for Cruyff/Rivaldo. Cruyff is the best player, but as a unit, my defence stacks up better to your attack than vice versa.
You have no interest in discussing the actual flow of the game, just to bang on 1vs1, despite we will control most of the game, which makes the discussion void.
The gap between both midfields is the biggest mismatch on the pitch, Rivaldo vs Sagnol is another mismatch. Dani Alves and Simonsen vs Bossis alone is another mismatch.
You have no protection for your full backs on the flanks, no game plan of how you are defending against our attack, just presenting some fantasy matchups like the game is isolated in 1 vs 1's...