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2019-20 Performances


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romufc

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Ole says we won't see Axel until September. Must be an opportunity for Mengi now.

What's this injury he's picked up? Have high hopes but this is killing his opportunities at the moment. I often feel like making it can all be about timing and with Maguire looking for a solid, long term partner now is no better to stand out above Lindelof/Baily or at least run them close.
We never get information about his injuries. He has been injured for such a long time.

I fear injuries might spell the end of him at United. If Ole wants him to be challenging Lindelof, he will not want someone he cannot trust to be fit ever.
 

Dante

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Shit.

The only 4 players I've ever thought were certain to make it from the Academy were Ravel, Pogba, Greenwood and Tuanzebe. That's how highly I rate him.

But the longer his injuries troubles go on, the less optimistic I become.
 

rotherham_red

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Think last summer, we could have gotten about £25m for him. This summer i’d be surprised if it was more than £15m. We could do with raising some funds, and can’t see anything more than sentimental reason for keeping Axel, and wanting an academy player in the team. Even if that were the case, he’s far away, and Mengi is rapidly closing in on the first team squad too.

If we weren’t so polite, we could probably raise some good money this summer by selling Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Lingard, Pereira and Tuanzebe. That’s probably close to £75m I’d imagine, for players who have contributed little to nothing of value. As it is, I’d expect us to try and keep Lingard, Pereira and Tuanzebe to the point where nobody will pay more than £5m at most for any of them.
Lingard is probably on the way out. Especially since he hired Raiola. Pereira I'm going back and forth on. I think he could be ok as a squad player, with the time to become better at the roles he's assigned.

Axel should stay. He has all the talent in the world, and his leadership qualities have always stood out. If he can get over his injuries (a big if, I know), I'd back him to be first choice alongside Maguire. He was never this badly injury-prone when he was younger. It's only started happening since the last year or so, and it could be growing pains for all we know. I'd give him another year to 18 months, and if he's still picking these injuries up, then we should look to move him on.
 

Robin Your Persie

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Has anyone heard what injury he currently has? Ole never gives much away he just states when he’s expected back.
 

bdecuc

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It'd be an absolute shame if injuries wrecked Tuanzebe's prospects. What a classy, talented cb he was in the u-18s/u-23s.
 

Van Piorsing

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This is Luke Shaw situation all over again. Prepare yourselves for a long wait till he finally be ready to step up, full season.

22 years of age... Seriously, what is wrong with some our players and these butchering phases of not being able to play even half a bloody season.
 

AaronRedDevil

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This is Luke Shaw situation all over again. Prepare yourselves for a long wait till he finally be ready to step up, full season.

22 years of age... Seriously, what is wrong with some our players and these butchering phases of not being able to play even half a bloody season.
Especially with the lack of quality in certain positions.
 

Rozay

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Lingard is probably on the way out. Especially since he hired Raiola. Pereira I'm going back and forth on. I think he could be ok as a squad player, with the time to become better at the roles he's assigned.

Axel should stay. He has all the talent in the world, and his leadership qualities have always stood out. If he can get over his injuries (a big if, I know), I'd back him to be first choice alongside Maguire. He was never this badly injury-prone when he was younger. It's only started happening since the last year or so, and it could be growing pains for all we know. I'd give him another year to 18 months, and if he's still picking these injuries up, then we should look to move him on.
Yea, in reality, I think Lingard is done here.

I also think Axel is overrated. Not sure he has ‘all the talent in the world’ either. Seen little from him outside of academy football that has made me objectively think this is a central defensive talent from the highest tier. He’s looked a decent player, nothing special. There are a raft of younger centre halves than him in the game who have looked much better.

I will echo though, that I felt he was fantastic in academy football. That, and the few games he had at right-back and defensive midfield under Mourinho, was the last time he’s really impressed me to the level where I think he’s a United level player. And it was all too long ago to me. Some people think I’m ‘harsh on our kids’, but they aren’t babies, and the bast majority of them do not turn out to be good enough. They need to be held to the same standard as any other footballer who wants to play for Manchester United, but in my opinion, many people seem to struggle to do that and make countless excuses for them. All that will happen if we take such an approach is we will have a weaker team, but full of players people ‘like’ and can identify with. That’s not something I’m willing to see happen. And the reality is, once they are out of the door, nobody cares anymore. Nobody cares what Blackett or McNair are doing now, or Tom Thorpe or Pearson who they begged to be given games. And nobody will care about Axel it he left I suspect. Harsh, but we need to maintain the standard, which is above whatever I’ve seen from Axel, before we even get into his injury problems.
 

Van Piorsing

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Especially with the lack of quality in certain positions.
Yup, and people still acting surprised that we're still being forced to spend when good part of our team is a sports medical centre.

If this goes for any longer we might have to recall Smalling as he'll be one of the few fit defenders ready to play majority of season.
 

croadyman

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I really feel for Axel as last October against Liverpool it looked like he had won Ole's trust to start regularly.

Unfortunately he got injured in the warmup and just hasn't been fit since then.
 

A-man

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I really feel for Axel as last October against Liverpool it looked like he had won Ole's trust to start regularly.

Unfortunately he got injured in the warmup and just hasn't been fit since then.
He hasn’t showed much yet. He’s played starting CB in 1 PL match against Newcastle and then starting LB against Arsenal. Then a few tactical subs in the last minutes of 3 matches(1 min+ 1 min + 5 min).
In EL he played 2 x Astana and 1 match against Alkmaar, all as CB.
He played EFL 90 min against Rochdale and 65 min against Colchester
It’s not much for a season.
 
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RDCR07

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Did he ever show such potential at Villa?
You could have all the potential in the world but if you can’t overcome your injury issues then you won’t get anywhere. Honestly I thought this season we could really embedded him into the starting XI and he could have pushed Lindelof for that starting spot but it hasn’t happened.
 

Strelok

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And the reality is, once they are out of the door, nobody cares anymore. Nobody cares what Blackett or McNair are doing now, or Tom Thorpe or Pearson who they begged to be given games. And nobody will care about Axel it he left I suspect.
Sad but true.
 

SAFMUTD

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You could have all the potential in the world but if you can’t overcome your injury issues then you won’t get anywhere. Honestly I thought this season we could really embedded him into the starting XI and he could have pushed Lindelof for that starting spot but it hasn’t happened.
Agree, we should ship him out in the next window. The reality is injury prone players dont add anything to the squad, can't be trusted to be starters and cant be trusted to be squad players, we've had so many injury prone defenders over the years with Jones, Rojo, Bailly and Tuanzabe that we ended up with 6 CBs in the squad, thats insane. We should have 4 tops, and as you said a potentially good player is worthless if he can't stay fit.
 

Shiva87

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Agree, we should ship him out in the next window. The reality is injury prone players dont add anything to the squad, can't be trusted to be starters and cant be trusted to be squad players, we've had so many injury prone defenders over the years with Jones, Rojo, Bailly and Tuanzabe that we ended up with 6 CBs in the squad, thats insane. We should have 4 tops, and as you said a potentially good player is worthless if he can't stay fit.
There is a difference between being "injury prone" and dealing with a serious injury. Lots of players have a bad injury which recurs because rehab didn't happen properly, or the first treatment didn't work. Pogba's ankle issues this season is case in point. The medical team thought that there should be one treatment (avoiding surgery). He did the recovery and built strength, but 90 mins of football and he was on the operation table. It's the same injury but kept him out for a year. (Would have been much lesser if the first diagnosis was clear that a surgery is needed, but these things aren't that straight forward).

Until we get more details on what his issue is, it's unfair to call him injury prone. Phil Jones and Bailly - now they are injury prone!
 

Glorio

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He hasn’t showed much yet. He’s played starting CB in 1 PL match against Newcastle and then starting LB against Arsenal. Then a few tactical subs in the last minutes of 3 matches(1 min+ 1 min + 5 min).
In EL he played 2 x Astana and 1 match against Alkmaar, all as CB.
He played EFL 90 min against Rochdale and 65 min against Colchester
It’s not much for a season.
So ... How did he fare in those games?
 

SAFMUTD

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There is a difference between being "injury prone" and dealing with a serious injury. Lots of players have a bad injury which recurs because rehab didn't happen properly, or the first treatment didn't work. Pogba's ankle issues this season is case in point. The medical team thought that there should be one treatment (avoiding surgery). He did the recovery and built strength, but 90 mins of football and he was on the operation table. It's the same injury but kept him out for a year. (Would have been much lesser if the first diagnosis was clear that a surgery is needed, but these things aren't that straight forward).

Until we get more details on what his issue is, it's unfair to call him injury prone. Phil Jones and Bailly - now they are injury prone!
Well Tuanzabe had 3 injuries between december 2018 and december 2019, missing a grand total 197 days on the year. 97 days for Metatarsal Fracture, 29 days hip injury, 71 days hamstring injury.

All that before the current injury, so I think its pretty safe to call a player injury prone when he has has 4 different injuries in a 18 month span, and being available for less than 40% of the time.
 

A-man

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So ... How did he fare in those games?
I think he has only been tested at high level in two matches really this season.
Arsenal- was ok for a developing player but then he did a crucial mistake that cost the game.
Newcastle- If I remember correctly he was ok even though we lost that match.
All together I think he hasn’t really shown much at high level yet and when he’s had the chance he hasn’t been anything spectacular.
 

Glorio

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I think he has only been tested at high level in two matches really this season.
Arsenal- was ok for a developing player but then he did a crucial mistake that cost the game.
Newcastle- If I remember correctly he was ok even though we lost that match.
All together I think he hasn’t really shown much at high level yet and when he’s had the chance he hasn’t been anything spectacular.
That's the point though right? You want your central defender to be unspectacular - composed, calm, steady. If your central defender is doing spectacular things (apart from scoring), he's probably in the wrong position. If spectacular = consistent last ditch tackles, again, not great for a central defender as it calls their anticipation into question.

He's seemed very mature and assured every time I've seen him play for us (apart from the one incident) - yeah it's not that many, but he's given a good account of himself, and never looks flustered. I remember some talk about Rio taking pride when he went into half time with his shorts still clean because of his ability to read the game and his composure.

I really hope he can get over these injury issues because at least, a heathy Axel could be a good backup, and at best, maybe a starter.
 

A-man

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That's the point though right? You want your central defender to be unspectacular - composed, calm, steady. If your central defender is doing spectacular things (apart from scoring), he's probably in the wrong position. If spectacular = consistent last ditch tackles, again, not great for a central defender as it calls their anticipation into question.

He's seemed very mature and assured every time I've seen him play for us (apart from the one incident) - yeah it's not that many, but he's given a good account of himself, and never looks flustered. I remember some talk about Rio taking pride when he went into half time with his shorts still clean because of his ability to read the game and his composure.

I really hope he can get over these injury issues because at least, a heathy Axel could be a good backup, and at best, maybe a starter.
Agree and I personally value unspectacular CBs higher than last ditch tacklers.

My view is however he has played very little matches at relevant level for his age. And the few matches he’s played have looked somewhat ok but not super promising. I would definitely send him on a loan as he needs to play consecutive matches and he will not be able to at United. After a PL season with 25-30 matches he can be evaluated.

At the same time we must understand that the coaches see him every day and we only on match days. They know better than us.
 
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dalriada

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He is at risk of being bypassed by Mengi, on paper we have 7 CBs but in reality we have 3. As to whether he's unlucky or perennially injury-prone, or whether we should keep him, we just have to leave that to the judgment of the manager and coaching and medical staff, who are best placed to know what's happening with him. But some players' careers end this way because someone else seizes the opportunity, so that could happen with Tuanzebe and Mengi.
A shame if it does, he looks to have great potential, although in the matches he has played recently, he's been extremely cautious (probably because of lack of game time) to the extent that Romero was becoming clearly frustrated with him passing back so often. From his interviews on MUTV, he's also a strong and mature character, not surprised people have talked about leader and captain qualities.
I wish him well and hope he overcomes his injuries.
 

pratyush_utd

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Do we know what kind of injury he is suffering from?

I remember him playing at DM under Mourinho and he looked quite good. It's a shame that he has been injured for almost entire season.
 

Bastian

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Do we know what kind of injury he is suffering from?

I remember him playing at DM under Mourinho and he looked quite good. It's a shame that he has been injured for almost entire season.
I'd like to know this too. I remember after that one or two games he featured in he picked up a hip injury. Hasn't been available all season. There is no way we can go into next season with Bailly as the third choice, given his injury proneness too.

Would also be pretty mad to expect Maguire to play every minute again, given that there is almost no holiday and then when the season finishes he's with England in the Euros.

Having Lindelof as third choice and Tuanzebe/Bailly fourth (whoever is not injured) would be healthy.
 

jesperjaap

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I'd like to know this too. I remember after that one or two games he featured in he picked up a hip injury. Hasn't been available all season. There is no way we can go into next season with Bailly as the third choice, given his injury proneness too.

Would also be pretty mad to expect Maguire to play every minute again, given that there is almost no holiday and then when the season finishes he's with England in the Euros.

Having Lindelof as third choice and Tuanzebe/Bailly fourth (whoever is not injured) would be healthy.
I think the hopes we had for Tuanzabe were perhaps why we didnt invest in two centre backs last year and allowed Smalling for example to go on loan, we were looking to bring on Tuanzabe.

With his and Baillys injuries (and Jones who hopefully goes) it is paramount for me we invest in a new centre back. Lindelof has pretty much been our only option as a partner most of this season and irrespective of whether you think he is good enough which I ceregtainly dont, that isnt good. We cant risk that for another season especially with the lack of a break as you mentioned. There is Mengi but he is very young.

We have so many areas need improving and centre back we have more players than any for the position, but half of them are injured and most the other half arent good enough for me
 

Bastian

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I think the hopes we had for Tuanzabe were perhaps why we didnt invest in two centre backs last year and allowed Smalling for example to go on loan, we were looking to bring on Tuanzabe.

With his and Baillys injuries (and Jones who hopefully goes) it is paramount for me we invest in a new centre back. Lindelof has pretty much been our only option as a partner most of this season and irrespective of whether you think he is good enough which I ceregtainly dont, that isnt good. We cant risk that for another season especially with the lack of a break as you mentioned. There is Mengi but he is very young.

We have so many areas need improving and centre back we have more players than any for the position, but half of them are injured and most the other half arent good enough for me
Yeah, it's the big one. We need to shift 3-4 centre backs this summer. I'd actually sell Bailly too, along with Jones, Smalling and Rojo. I think Lindelof could be a very good squad player to have. But he doesn't really suit Maguire. Having Tuanzebe drop to 4th choice, if he can get over his injuries and Lindelof 3rd would be excellent.
 

lex talionis

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Despite his injuries this season, I wouldn't give up on Tuanzebe. I'm sold on bringing in a new CB during the transfer window, but let's definitely keep Tuanzebe as one for the squad and push our starting CBs to improve their own game.

The CBs we need to say goodbye to are Jones and Rojo. It's a close call on Smalling, but I think he needs to move on too. Bailly and Tuanzebe supporting Maguire, Lindelof and a new CB would be fine with me.
 

jesperjaap

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Yeah, it's the big one. We need to shift 3-4 centre backs this summer. I'd actually sell Bailly too, along with Jones, Smalling and Rojo. I think Lindelof could be a very good squad player to have. But he doesn't really suit Maguire. Having Tuanzebe drop to 4th choice, if he can get over his injuries and Lindelof 3rd would be excellent.
Yes I pretty much agree on Bailly. I actually like him, but he has had so many injury problems and with that he hasnt developed beying reckless, first season was the best and we cant have so many permanently crocked centre backs.
 

Bastian

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Yes I pretty much agree on Bailly. I actually like him, but he has had so many injury problems and with that he hasnt developed beying reckless, first season was the best and we cant have so many permanently crocked centre backs.
Yeah. We'd be lucky to break even getting Rojo out, I don't know, maybe Jones could fetch 5-10m if that West Ham link is authentic. Smalling 15-20m it seems. I could see a team offering 20m for Bailly. Give Tuanzebe another season to prove his fitness and ability, as fourth choice so we're not dependent upon him being fit all the time. And we can sign a suitable partner for Maguire.

I hope there has been work on progressing sales for the last few months.