Meh.
Television Better Call Saul | Includes Breaking Bad Spoilers
- Thread starter Kinky Melinky
- Start date
Just watched the finale, surely up there with the very best of all time. Pitch-perfect.
Ending was a bit of a let-down. Felt like he got the deal really easily & then gave it away equally easily. Not as good as BB's ending.
Lalo was the highlight of the season for me, great character.
Lalo was the highlight of the season for me, great character.
Wasn't blown away by the ending but wasn't disappointed either. It was good.
In the end, he got what he deserved.
In the end, he got what he deserved.
Agreed.
2/3 of the finale was a trip down memory lane to show us how different characters thought he was money grabbing cnut(which we already knew, we didn't need Walt or Mike pointing it to us), and the rest of the episode was to show us he still has some good ideas(reducing the sentence to 7 years), only to finish it with him doing something really stupid only to show Kim that her opinion of him is the most important thing for him. Which is fine, because he always cared about Kim, he was always quite selfish cnut to anyone except her.
I liked the finale, even though it's maybe not the best writing you'll see, it's much better episode than the two before these.
I liked the finale, even though it's maybe not the best writing you'll see, it's much better episode than the two before these.
I enjoyed the episode and the final scene was fantastic. I’m not sure it will hold up to much scrutiny though. Did he have to confess all the rest to save Kim? Not really.
The truly heartbreaking scene for me was
the flashback with Chuck, presumably one of the first times he did the delivery. It seemed clear as day that Chuck was genuinely interested in Jimmy’s work, but it was Jimmy’s own lack of self esteem that made him think he wasn’t worth Chuck’s time. Thus began the antagonism which was, in reality, born out of his own insecurities.
But it wasn't just about doing it for Kim.... he did for himself, or at least the genuine human part of himself, as in, Jimmy... both of the finales of these two series were exceptionally satisfying to me. They worked, they did, albeit very quickly, a redemptive angle for both leads, despite both of them being pretty bad, especially when laid bare like Saul's involvement in it all was... yet we're still there, wanting him to walk out after 5 years with good behaviour and Kim waiting for him as the final scene 
I also, oddly felt the finale had similar vibes to The X-Files finale... I'm not sure if that's just me with mad absurdity going on... but lead character in custody quickly, old faces and suprises returns, nice little scene at the end with romantic pairing.... I'm not sure Gilligan was still in the writers room at that point in X-Files, but maybe? I don't know
I also, oddly felt the finale had similar vibes to The X-Files finale... I'm not sure if that's just me with mad absurdity going on... but lead character in custody quickly, old faces and suprises returns, nice little scene at the end with romantic pairing.... I'm not sure Gilligan was still in the writers room at that point in X-Files, but maybe? I don't know
No, but it wasn't just about getting Kim off, it was about salvaging a trace of respect from her (and himself), which, as evidenced by the final scene, succeeded. The whole episode wrestled with the question of whether, deep down, he was more Jimmy McGill or Saul Goodman. This was his way of showing, at least to Kim and himself, that he was the former. He couldn't have done it half. It was also implied that it was his plan all along rather than a change of heart in the plane.
That is not in keeping with the character at all. Jimmy or Saul. Just felt like a way to manipulate the ending they wanted. For me it would have had more impact if he’d just said what he needed to say to get Kim off the hook and leave the possibility they re-connect when he’s released.
Why is it not? Been the arc of the whole series.
Not sure on that plan all along thing, it was the fact it was revealed to him that she had confessed that shook him... and made him realize he'd have to do something to allow her to live a more free life. Had she not confessed, he's doing 7 years... and likely trying to chase her back later one(maybe, maybe not, maye she continues her normal opinionless life instead). The revelation that her life is likely over because she confessed pushed to give up his freedom for hers.
His character throughout has been one happy to swerve the law to serve his own purposes. To the point where Kim followed his ways.
On deeper thought it also makes zero sense for Kim. The reason she confessed was so she could assuage her guilt. Saul taking sole blame doesn’t do that.
The elegant thing about the ending, for me, is that it doesn't necessarily mean that deep down, he was in fact Jimmy McGill more than he was Saul. It might just mean that that was the impression he wanted to leave Kim with, and that he wanted it enough to sell his own freedom. Was that courtroom confession genuine or a performance, or a bit of both?
Yeah, I think you're right actually.
Possibly. Though as I said in my edited post above, it makes no sense for Kim to allow him to do that. She was the driving force behind the plot. Her confession now means nothing other than the man she loved serving the rest of his life in prison. In part because of something she was massively responsible for.
I take your point. Though I think emotionally, by confessing to Cheryl, she felt she had come clean and confronted her guilt, while Jimmy seemed to always compartmentalize. The actual sentencing, evidently, mattered less than facing what they had done.
Not sure how i feel about that finale, in a way I understand the inner struggle between Jimmy/Saul and why they chose to end it that way. However, the whole redemption thing has become a bit of a predicable cliché in television which devalues the show imo. But overall a very good series.
It's much slower paced than BB but the characters are so well written and acted.
Good conclusion. I liked that it showed that he still had the touch to win but decided to take one for the Kim. Also didn’t finish as dark as it was hinting at which is more like Jimmy’s real character.
Never got why so many people think this about Mike. Imo he is the worse because he talks about a so-called code but he regularly breaks it or carries on when those around him break it and for what ? No, the bs about doing it for his grand daughter I’m not buying he had millions, so mostly he did for the same reason as Walter. He liked it.
Carries on working for Gus despite Gus screwing over Nacho, carries on working for Gus after killing the German (I understand why it had to be done, but Mike was against it) , carries on working for Gus even after Gus’ foot soldiers uses kids, and doesn’t object when they execute the kid, doesn’t leave when the kid is killed after the train robbery, but does kinda leave after because he can make £5m by selling his share of methlamynn
The only criminals with honour, despite their flaws and sometimes callous acts were Jesse and Nacho. Neither really spoke about it or image crafted it like Mike did so viewers don’t associate it with them. But they were the only two who when their values were challenged they’d actually react, no matter who it was against and what they had to lose.
I didn't really get the turn in character for a lifelong con man capable of comitting a murder to save his own arse to accepting lifelong imprisonment to impress his ex.
How exactly does his confession help Kim?
I liked most of the episode and it had the best WW cameo, but the ending was unrealistic.
How exactly does his confession help Kim?
I liked most of the episode and it had the best WW cameo, but the ending was unrealistic.
I am not saying I agree that this motif fits his character arc but that is what he thinks about himself and hence why he at least attempts to follow it first, for example stopping Gus from kidnapping Nacho's father. Or trying to save the German at first. But the show also eventually makes the same argument you do that for all of Mike's proclamations, he is a bog standard amoral criminal, as expressed by Nacho's father in Mike's last scene on the show (discounting flashbacks).
Weak finish to a good but not great series. For me, it was all about the villains, especially Salamanca.
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Her life, while free, was likely to be over due to the civil suits. He took the flak to allow her freedom instead of him…. I mean she still had her issues we’ve kinda got suspend belief a bit over… but that’s the general idea.
Almost everything he does in BCS that ends up badly for him is actually, at the root of it, for Kim… Chuck took Mesa off her which started the events leading to that, Hamlin he went through with despite not wanting to because she insisted … and now he’s serving 87 years instead of 7 for her to be free.
I mean, he ain’t perfect obviously… but those things are what he’s mostly running away from by being Saul.
That's me. I watched about 3-4 episodes of BB before deciding it wasn't for me. It was too relentlessly grim at that stage and I knew it was only going to become more so. I chose to watch BCS because I am a fan of Bob Odenkirk. I've been watching his stuff since I first saw him as Larry Sanders' slimeball agent Stevie Grant in the mid 90s.
The only bit of the series that I didn't really understand the context of was in this final episode, where he was in some kind of bunker with Walter White I didn't know when or where that was supposed to be taking place.
They overlapped when they called the vacuum repair guy and were together when they were waiting for their new identities.
What about things like the aforementioned German lab building plot? Do you know what that ultimately is, or do you care? What about the fates of Gus and Mike? Does it bother you that they aren’t really resolved in this? Or the backstory of why Gus hates the Cartel? Etc…. I can get basically following the plot, but is it as rich? Genuinely quite interested.
And do you intend to watch BB now? Or just look up the relevant scenes…
(Also, as @RacingClub says, it’s from the second to last episode, when Saul & Walt are waiting at Robert Foster’s hideout to be given new identities - essentially just before he becomes Gene)
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I feel enough was expalined. They were building a secret lab, that's as much as I needed to know and it's obviously going to feature in BB. I found it rewarding enough on its own, but I may give Breaking Bad another go at some point. I don't feel like it's necessary though.
There were plenty of self-contained threads and character arcs in this for it to work on its own merits up until the last few episodes. I was invested in Nacho just as much as I was in Jimmy, for example.
Thanks for the context.
I feel like that scene detracts from the present day black and white Gene scenes now I've seen it though. Kind of fan-servicey.
DEA claims to have a mountain of evidence against Saul, but how?
There is no proof that Saul was laundering money.
There is no evidence that he was directly connected with Hank and Gomey's murder.
Jesse's confession is the only other proof of his involvement. But that was taken and possibly destroyed by Nazis.
Sure, he is person of interest for questioning. But, it would have been nice if they went into what exact evidence they had on him for RICO.
There is no proof that Saul was laundering money.
There is no evidence that he was directly connected with Hank and Gomey's murder.
Jesse's confession is the only other proof of his involvement. But that was taken and possibly destroyed by Nazis.
Sure, he is person of interest for questioning. But, it would have been nice if they went into what exact evidence they had on him for RICO.
Didn't he have a call with his former assistant where she said they had found all his accounts and shell companies?
I have not yet decided what I think of finale, but just wanted to comment on the amazing attention to detail this series had. Did anyone else notice the closeup of the exit sign and the specific electrical buzzing, the moment Chuck's name was mentioned in the court room?
Also timeline wise, did the authors had a change of heart when the Gene timeline actually is? I thought it was 2015, now it is late 2010 (due to the football references).
Also timeline wise, did the authors had a change of heart when the Gene timeline actually is? I thought it was 2015, now it is late 2010 (due to the football references).
Didnt they imply a couple of episodes ago (when Gene phoned his former secretary) that the authorities uncovered pretty much everything in the aftermath of BB?
How does his confession stop Kim from being liable to civil suits?
Did I miss something or this is just assumed?
I understood the ending as Jimmy wanting to show Kim he wasnt a cnut after hearing she'd confessed.
It doesn't.
It was just him trying to show Kim he can have a guilty conscience as well.
I agree. I always felt like there wasn’t much on Saul and at best he was just running away out of fear, or to avoid a few years.
When they read the charges I was like damn, but then you’re right it’s very hard to prove those things no actual physical evidence apart from the accounts which he can say were for other things and just tax evasion etc and no witnesses
Even Walter wasn’t directly responsible for their deaths. Saul would’ve had zero responsibility.
That doesn’t explain why he then tried to take the blame for Walter White and things he played zero part in. He wasn’t even laundering money for him in the end. That was Skylar.
His assistant said that Skyler took a deal and I'd imagine she gave them a lot on Saul.