Board vs Jose

[trafford1980]

Just on the Pereira point, he did nothing last season and a couple of decent games in these garbage matches against poor opposition in meaningless friendlies doesn't count for much, and I like the kid but he's yet to do anything in a competitive match for United, I remember on LvG's first tour Fletcher looked a million bucks, but once we started playing PL football instead of friendlies it was clear that his level had shifted quite a bit and he couldn't offer much.

Totally agree although I'm praying it's not the case.

 

[ash_86]

I feel that for the first time in his career, Jose is struggling with being in a genuine multi challenger title slog. His resume was built on him managing clubs that could blow the opposition away in terms in terms of resources (first Chelsea stint) or in two-team leagues where he inherited almost flawless squads - he took over Inter after they had just won three-titles on the bounce. Preparing for Juventus or Barcelona twice-a-season is different to fighting for a highly competitive champions league spot against City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal.

This is why I give Mourinho some leeway here. His United side have just finished second to a better-settled team who comfortably outspent us. It really is that simple. It would be hypercritical of us to throw decade-long accusations of buying the league at him and then at the same time criticise him for not winning it at United when he was comfortably outspent. We're all United supporters here, we should recognise this hypocrisy even if the general media don't.

I'm not knocking him or his resume - his Porto and Inter cup teams were mint, and it's admirable he took on the United challenge considering the circumstances, but a part of me feels that perhaps he thought Ed "We can do things in the transfer market that other clubs can only dream of" Woodward and the board were going to provide almost limitless backing to get our title back. We've spent heavily, but considering our commercial incomings (and revenue-to-wage numbers,) this isn't obviously the case.

If someone had told me back in early 2016 that we'd appoint Mourinho and spend almost 500 mill over the next two years I would have put money on us obtaining the likes of a Bale, Messi, Neymar or a returning Ronaldo. Maybe Jose had a similar thought.

Good Post!

 

[Rednotdead]

Is the Board trying to get him to walk out? Is that the reason for the ridiculous inactivity in the transfer market?

Something clearly isn't right about our club.

 

[Kapardin]

Is the Board trying to get him to walk out? Is that the reason for the ridiculous inactivity in the transfer market?

Something clearly isn't right about our club.

I think they told him to sell the deadwood before buying. And it might take till deadline day to get rid of the deadwood, which would make buying impossible.

Both at fault here. The Glazers for not releasing funds despite the state of our FB positions, and Jose's whose transfer activity has left much to be desired considering two major CB purchases (Bailly and Lindelof) are not even guaranteed starters.

If the board want to tread this cautious route from now on, better hire the likes of Sarri who might manage. When you hire the likes of Jose, Conte, Pep or Ancelotti, you have to back them with cash no matter what.

 

[haram]

I think they told him to sell the deadwood before buying. And it might take till deadline day to get rid of the deadwood, which would make buying impossible.

Both at fault here. The Glazers for not releasing funds despite the state of our FB positions, and Jose's whose transfer activity has left much to be desired considering two major CB purchases (Bailly and Lindelof) are not even guaranteed starters.

Who are the deadwood? Rojo and Darmian? We really need that extra 30 million before we can buy?

 

[Kapardin]

Who are the deadwood? Rojo and Darmian? We really need that extra 30 million before we can buy?

Took a long time for Blind to be offloaded and yes, those two as well.

We are holding out for close to 20 mil for each, that's 60 mil and freeing up wages. Not an insignificant amount.

 

[Patrick08]

Whoever I list it'll be "They've won nothing" so why even bother? I doubt we could get Zidane but you never know, Jardim won a Ligue 1 title against the odds with a vibrant young team and got to a CL semi, I wouldn't mind him, maybe one of the young coaches like Nagelsmann, we've went older and experienced for 4 seasons and it's been soul destroying dogshit to watch, so perhaps a different aproach might be the answer, maybe those that want the Class of '92 to get a shot would get their wish.

I think you are overreacting to the recent showing against Liverpool a way too much here, which coincidentally I dint watch, but pretty much expected how will it pan out.

Although, I don't like the idea of Playing without the ball and conservative and reactive against teams who want to keep the ball, I don't think any of those managers could have taken united to 81 points last season and could even qualify for Ucl again with the Broken squad we had.

Yes, Mourinho's football is too much dependent on the individualistic qualities of the team to solve the problems on the pitch rather than a collective strategy focussed on attacking with structure and Fluidity, No manager you Mentioned or did not Mention would even have the experience and quality to compete with the current batch of Opposition top 5 we would face specially

Our problem steams from Wide Areas for ages and the Board should take equal Blame for the Dross transfer strategy we have implemented all these years in those areas waiting for pipe dreams of Resigning Ronaldo and Signing Bale for years when they have Zero intention to come and not planning for the Managers suitability way much In advance hoping for him to identify targets and loose precious time and thus also suitable targets to competition even our rivals without any competiton.The manager and play a double Role as Manager cum Footballing coach at united and its a incredibly tough job for any manager coming in and deliver because the competition are planning their windows much in advance and the way we go on about business would require any manager lots of time which is not available is modern footballing Senario.

Constantly changing the play style with every manager with our club functioning policy will be even more counter productive than productive.

 

[haram]

Took a long time for Blind to be offloaded and yes, those two as well.

We are holding out for close to 20 mil for each, that's 60 mil and freeing up wages. Not an insignificant amount.

We sold Blind already. It’s a shit reason to halt the squad building.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

The board aren’t backing him anymore and I don’t blame them.

 

[Rednotdead]

Took a long time for Blind to be offloaded and yes, those two as well.

We are holding out for close to 20 mil for each, that's 60 mil and freeing up wages. Not an insignificant amount.

Agreed, but selling them isn't Jose's job - it's Ed's i.e. the Board's. If they set the condition that players have to be sold before others can be bought it's up to them to get the job done in plenty of time to get new recruits in. So far there's no sign of that.

 

[Raoul]

The board aren’t backing him anymore and I don’t blame them.

Why wouldn't they back him, given his success is ours and their success as well.

 

[Patrick08]

No more than the pressure at Barca or any of the other big clubs and they've covered the bases under more than one manager, right now any manager that could deliver top 4 for the money men and entertaining football for the fans would get plenty of time given the utter dross we've had for half a decade now.

Barcelona never change their playing Philosophy. We have changed the way we play 3 times in last 5years that's the difference.

 

[bosnian_red]

Who are the deadwood? Rojo and Darmian? We really need that extra 30 million before we can buy?

I agree but from their perspective (probably):
Why buy a left back and/or centerback who will further bloat the squad and leave basically 2 left backs and 2 centerbcks who wont play a single game but have a combined like 500k a week wages being wasted. Can't just loan them because we'll still pay the wages, or part of them. So they need to make space from a business perspective otherwise we're just wasting others. Also devalues them as others would know we are desperate to get rid.
Also maybe they doubt itll actually change much for us. Will signing a CB win the title? Left back? Unlikely so spending 100m combined without selling what we have and ultimately achieving the same position is a bit... shit, from a business point of view.

 

[Rednotdead]

Why wouldn't they back him, given his success is ours and their success as well.

Well, the next 11 days will tell the tale. At 5.01pm on 9th August we can draw our own conclusions.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Barcelona never change their playing Philosophy. We have changed the way we play 3 times in last 5years that's the difference.

Barcelona don't adhere to Cruyff's values anymore.

Valverde is a very pragmatic manager.

 

[devilish]

I agree but from their perspective (probably):
Why buy a left back and/or centerback who will further bloat the squad and leave basically 2 left backs and 2 centerbcks who wont play a single game but have a combined like 500k a week wages being wasted. Can't just loan them because we'll still pay the wages, or part of them. So they need to make space from a business perspective otherwise we're just wasting others. Also devalues them as others would know we are desperate to get rid.
Also maybe they doubt itll actually change much for us. Will signing a CB win the title? Left back? Unlikely so spending 100m combined without selling what we have and ultimately achieving the same position is a bit... shit, from a business point of view.

So instead of biting the bullet as really top clubs do, we stick to this tripe for yet another season even though we know that they will let us down. No wonder Anderson stayed at United for 8 long years.

We claim to be the biggest and the richest club in the world. At least that's what we say when we charge premium for sleeve sponsors and meaningless pre season games which are becoming fertile ground for injuries. Maybe, just maybe, its time we start acting like one.

 

[Rednotdead]

So instead of biting the bullet as really top clubs do, we stick to this tripe for yet another season even though we know that they will let us down. No wonder Anderson stayed at United for 8 long years.

We claim to be the biggest and the richest club in the world. At least that's what we say when we charge premium for sleeve sponsors and meaningless pre season games which are becoming fertile ground for injuries. Maybe, just maybe, its time we start acting like one.

Beginning to think top 4 is the Board's aim. It still brings the money rolling in and the brand is untarnished.

 

[Coops73]

I don’t know who’s to blame for lack of signings or transfer strategy or the signings that have failed/succeeded but the one common denominator in all of this since Fergie and Gill left is Woodward.

 

[devilish]

Beginning to think top 4 is the Board's aim. It still brings the money rolling in and the brand is untarnished.

I doubt we can keep saying we're the biggest club in the world if we can't even top the EPL table.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I don’t know who’s to blame for lack of signings or transfer strategy or the signings that have failed/succeeded but the one common denominator in all of this since Fergie and Gill left is Woodward.

He definitely has some blame.

He's brilliant on the commercial side of things, but we need someone running the football side of things and clearly Woodward isn't fit for that.

 

[devilish]

I don’t know who’s to blame for lack of signings or transfer strategy or the signings that have failed/succeeded but the one common denominator in all of this since Fergie and Gill left is Woodward.

things turned nasty long before that. After all it was during Gill's administration that top talent like Scholes, Giggs, Rio, Vidic and Ronaldo were being succeeded/replaced with the likes of Cleverley, Young, Smalling, Jones and Valencia.

 

[Rednotdead]

I doubt we can keep saying we're the biggest club in the world if we can't even top the EPL table.

Ed/the Board will just point to revenue figures.

 

[devilish]

Ed/the Board will just point to revenue figures.

Good luck convincing sponsors to keeping paying premium for that.

 

[Rednotdead]

Good luck convincing sponsors to keeping paying premium for that.

Well, no harm so far. When was the last time we won the league?

 

[Coops73]

things turned nasty long before that. After all it was during Gill's administration that top talent like Scholes, Giggs, Rio, Vidic and Ronaldo were being succeeded/replaced with the likes of Cleverley, Young, Smalling, Jones and Valencia.

I kind of agree with you there, I think it goes back further than that but that’s a whole other discussion but if you believe what’s written in the press and on social media something stinks at United and whole I try not to take notice of that I’m finding it hard not believe something just ain’t quite right.

 

[iKeano]

Just on the Pereira point, he did nothing last season and a couple of decent games in these garbage matches against poor opposition in meaningless friendlies doesn't count for much, and I like the kid but he's yet to do anything in a competitive match for United, I remember on LvG's first tour Fletcher looked a million bucks, but once we started playing PL football instead of friendlies it was clear that his level had shifted quite a bit and he couldn't offer much.

Same return as Fellaini, did nothing last year but a few (very few) half acceptable performances. Yet Pereira gets shipped out on loan and Fellaini holds the club to ransom. I'd rather take a punt on a long term investment than on an utterly useless short term.

The board are business men now, not football men and that's the crux of it. They'd rather sign new sponsors than players. Happy to finish top 4, CL qualification and the financial trimmings they bring. Ed was at centre court Wimbledon when the World Cup Final was on.... How do you not watch the World Cup Final?!?!

Much as it pains me, I think we've lived through the crazy glory days and we're now bedding in to reality as Manchester United Business Club where financial ambitions far outweigh the drive for footballing success. Only hope that the board learn they go hand in hand before it's too late.

 

[el3mel]

I doubt we can keep saying we're the biggest club in the world if we can't even top the EPL table.

Umm, we were never really the biggest club in the world unless the talk is about money value and sponsors. Trophies wise we're 4th best behind Barca, Madrid and Bayern. Still great but not the "biggest". It's just the club's way of marketing.

 

[devilish]

Well, no harm so far. When was the last time we won the league?

Top brands pay premium because they want to be associated with those who share their same mentality. That's why billionaires drive/are driven around in Bentleys and Ferraris not Ladas and Skodas despite the latter probably waste far less fuel.

So shit will hit fan. Its a matter of when rather then if.

 

[oz insomniac]

Trying to draw a line in the sand on this issue, could it be that it's all about receiving a somewhat bloated figure for players that are moved on. The board have extended players purely and simply to sell them on and recoup funds, no wonder the manager is ticked off.

If a player isn't in the clubs plans, trying to screw unrealistic dollars to fund signings seem foolish. All in all it seems the balance sheet takes preference over team building. You get what you get when progress is overseen by a sponsorship guru who is also the owners lackey.

 

[Rednotdead]

Top brands pay premium because they want to be associated with those who share their same mentality. So shit will hit fan. Its a matter of when rather then if.

Not really. Top brands go by the level of exposure of their brand globally. In that respect Utd are right up there and top 4 maintains the hope of supporters that something better may be just around the corner. Is Utd losing fans because we haven't won the league for a while?

 

[vanderpants]

Two men to blame here, Jose for his style of football and a few dodgy signings and Woodward for his lack of football insight, he's just a numbers man, unlike David Gill. The quicker they both leave the better for me

 

[el3mel]

Two men to blame here, Jose for his style of football and a few dodgy signings and Woodward for his lack of football insight, he's just a numbers man, unlike David Gill. The quicker they both leave the better for me

Ed shouldn't be sacked. We should just get a DOF and keep Ed for the sponsorship job.

 

[devilish]

Not really. Top brands go by the level of exposure of their brand globally. In that respect Utd are right up there and top 4 maintains the hope of supporters that something better may be just around the corner. Is Utd losing fans because we haven't won the league for a while?

We might lose as many fans as our league table suggests but we are certainly not making as many new supporters as we do. The young generation tend to follow clubs who are successful

 

[vanderpants]

Ed shouldn't be sacked. We should just get a DOF and keep Ed for the sponsorship job.

Exactly, he's good at getting money in for shafting sponsors, when it comes to football matters he is obviously out of his depth

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

Who are the deadwood? Rojo and Darmian? We really need that extra 30 million before we can buy?

It’s not the transfer fee,it’s the wages that we need to knock off before we sign someone else.But I agree,even if we fail to offload them,United should be big enough to sign the players that the manager wants...We have to give the manager what he wants before the start of the season,else things could get ugly...

 

[dangler]

Not really. Top brands go by the level of exposure of their brand globally. In that respect Utd are right up there and top 4 maintains the hope of supporters that something better may be just around the corner. Is Utd losing fans because we haven't won the league for a while?

Maybe not losing fans at the moment but undoubtedly will if mediocrity continues. United were always buying the best guy around no matter the fee - Ferdinand, Nistelrooy etc. Probably doubled the fan base with Ronaldo in the team. Those players also wanted to join and chose united over other top teams.

Nowadays players that join are outcasts from top clubs and supposed to be top talent that only United are in for, which subsequently fail to make it here.

 

[K2K]

Same return as Fellaini, did nothing last year but a few (very few) half acceptable performances. Yet Pereira gets shipped out on loan and Fellaini holds the club to ransom. I'd rather take a punt on a long term investment than on an utterly useless short term.

The board are business men now, not football men and that's the crux of it. They'd rather sign new sponsors than players. Happy to finish top 4, CL qualification and the financial trimmings they bring. Ed was at centre court Wimbledon when the World Cup Final was on.... How do you not watch the World Cup Final?!?!

Much as it pains me, I think we've lived through the crazy glory days and we're now bedding in to reality as Manchester United Business Club where financial ambitions far outweigh the drive for footballing success. Only hope that the board learn they go hand in hand before it's too late.

Neither of those things are true.

 

[parkthebuslads]

First and foremost MUFC is a business now, run to make money. Nothing more, nothing less.

Like any business of such size, actions aren't taken lightly, considerable research and thought will be behind any choice that is made. Unfortunately, I suspect that they have looked at the investment needed to truly compete at the highest level, calculated the likely resulting profit and found that it did not make business sense to pursue such ambitions.

On occasion we will still spend big, certain players like Pogba are worth their weight in gold and the board will accept that some investment is necessary to maintain the facade/reap the CL money. But sadly I believe that in many respects we now mirror Arsenal.

With that said, I believe the club would be more than satisfied with Jose, providing he maintains a top 4 finish. It would likely take the press whipping up an incredible sh*t storm around him and the club for them to be inclined to sack him.

 

[thegregster]

On the capital side of things they are spending virtually nothing.

So where is all the money going?

 

[We need an rvn]

Exactly, he's good at getting money in for shafting sponsors, when it comes to football matters he is obviously out of his depth

You are forgetting that the transfers would still need to be signed off by the Glaziers. I personally don't think it matters if we have a DOF or if Woody handles the matter. When United come calling a club will know how much they want to charge us for a player, then this goes back to the Glaziers for approval.

We're all stipulating and have no idea what's going on behind the scenes (although Jose's constant transfer moans / putting down the squad via the media can't help but be taken he's not happy with the board). Perhaps the Glaziers don't want to spend the stupid amounts of money and players and hence one of the reasons for the academy overhaul, which goes completely against Jose's buy the trophy policy over the years.