Boycott The Qatar World Cup?

Pintu

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People aren’t boycotting… Broadcasters are making money for FIFA…

 

maniak

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What the heck? That’s what you literally suggested will happen. I’m done myself this isn’t going anywhere.

Like I said different cultures and all. You see how you don’t give a feck about that but someone will with a different cultural background.
Please quote where I said iran would kill fans who protested in qatar when they return to iran.
 

Hanks

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Okay, so this is the source, if you understand Farsi, you'll know he's saying what is being said in the tweet. As a native Persian speaker and Iran lover, I confirm the voice.


On Friday, Black Reward hacking group hacked Fars News Agency (IRGC Media) and got access to many many documents and data which they've been slowly feeding to Iran International to release...The videos range from IR regime's special "Operation World Cup" plans on how to pit the team against the nation, intimidation tactics agreed to and okayed by Queiroz himself (I lost all respect for that POS), and of course lots of tactics how to manage the atmosphere in Qatar (they've sent 22,000 members of Basijis and their families to Qatar) and co-ordination with Qatari authorities to clamp down on any display of Iranian protests (Lion and Sun flag, Women Life Freedom, Mahsa Amini etc)....and to give detailed list of all Iranians who've travelled to Qatar (not clear is just from Iran or from diaspora too).

- There are many videos of Iranian protestors being harassed and kicked out of stadium simply because of the shirt they are wearing or the flag they are carrying. Qatar authorities temporarily have detained them before releasing them after a few hours.

- This is part of an intimidation tactics that goes to the players too. According to CNN and VOA, Iran players have been threatened that their families will be in trouble should they refuse to sing the anthem tomorrow or display any sort of solidarity with protests in the match vs. USA.



Also, after beating Wales, the security forces started dancing on the streets (many videos avaialble) and some even waving the flags from the tip of their guns. It's just the many ways the regime is using this team politically and have them by the balls one way or another.

That's why I don't know a single Iranian living now in Iran who's supporting the team tomorrow. I only know a few diaspora types that wish they beat USA tomorrow. Inside Iran, there is barely any enthusiasm for football, especially seeing how the regime is using this football team like a toy to achieve propaganda and strategic aims. Literal "OPERATION WORLD CUP".

so go USA !!!
 

MUnchies

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Please quote where I said iran would kill fans who protested in qatar when they return to iran.
“Nothing at all, I mean, it's not like the iranian regime has been killing people daily for the last few weeks. What could go wrong for people criticizing them abroad.”

Above was your sarcastic response to my quote “what do you think will happen?”

If your your reply isn’t suggesting they will be killed when they go back to Iran then what the feck are you insinuating?
 
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Synco

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Can't judge the validity of these particular tweets/leaks (and haven't yet gone through Hanks's post just posted above).

But there was a more general claim that the Iranian state has no realistic interest in obtaining information about dissidents in Qatar, because domestic ones will be known, and the regime has no reach beyond that. The latter part is not true.

Iranian intelligence agencies are known to monitor diaspora Iranians for oppositional activities. A main issue is that these people have friends, family, sometimes political associates in Iran, and may travel there themselves. I've been around Iranians quite a bit over the years, this general threat was something not just a few had at the back of their minds. It was a talking point that came up from time to time.

Excerpts from a German article from 2009:
"Especially the secret service VEVAK is focusing on surveillance and disruption of Iranian oppositional groups." (...) "Main focus of the Iranian intelligence apparatus is the intensive surveillance and combatting of oppositional groups inside and outside of the country. The MOIS [Ministry of Information and Security] has a legal residency in the embassy in Berlin, commissioned with the observation of opposition members living in Germany. Furthermore it provides logistic support for intelligence operations of the MOIS headquarter in Tehran." (2008 report of Hamburg's Verfassungsschutz [regional section of the German domestic intelligence agency])

"We know that the Iranian secret service has its people joining demonstrations," the deputy chief of [Hamburg's Verfassungsschutz] agency, Manfred Murk, said to the ARD magazine 'Panorama'. At protests against the government of Iranian president Mahmud Ahmadinejad, the secret service is trying to identify individual demonstrators. "We have proof that videos are taken, that they try to track down people."

Organizers of protests in Germany against the allegedly fraudulent reelection of Ahmadinejad told 'Panorama' of threatening phone calls and repressive actions against participants of demonstrations and their families in Iran. Murck confirmed that the Iranian secret service is using these methods against regime critics residing in Germany. On trips back home to Iran, the secret service has the opportunity to take massive action against them.

https://www.handelsblatt.com/politi...eheimdienst-in-deutschland-aktiv/3281192.html

There was also a streak of murders of Iranian dissidents and activists in the 80s and 90s. The Mykonos restaurant assassinations were a famous such incident in Germany. In that vein, a recent article from the Netherlands:
https://nltimes.nl/2022/11/01/dutch-police-ignored-iranian-activists-safety-concerns-murder-report
Ultimate confirmation is of course difficult or impossible in such cases, and Iran has always denied any involvement. Make of that what you will.
 
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frostbite

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People aren’t boycotting… Broadcasters are making money for FIFA…
Boycotting is meaningless anyway. My wife has been boycotting football games forever and had zero impact whatsoever!

It is better to be there and protest. Making noise might have some effect, at least for future decisions.
 

maniak

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“Nothing at all, I mean, it's not like the iranian regime has been killing people daily for the last few weeks. What could go wrong for people criticizing them abroad.”

Above was your response to my quote “what do you think will happen?”

If your your reply isn’t suggesting they will be killed when they go back to Iran then what the feck are you insinuating?
You suggested nothing would happen to these iranians if they were on said list. I pointed out that a regime that regularly kills its citizens would obviously do something to them. How you go from that to thinking I said they would all be killed... I've no idea.

I'm not insinuating anything, I'm saying it very directly. If such a list exists, those in there who return to iran will obviously face some kind of consequence. You already agreed to this, so at this point I'm not even sure what we're talking about.
 

RedStarUnited

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People aren’t boycotting… Broadcasters are making money for FIFA…

They are making money for themselves. They would have already agreed a price with FIFA a long time ago.

The same ITV who are talking negatively about Qatar are then running Qatar tourism ads multiple times during the game.
 

MUnchies

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You suggested nothing would happen to these iranians if they were on said list. I pointed out that a regime that regularly kills its citizens would obviously do something to them. How you go from that to thinking I said they would all be killed... I've no idea.

I'm not insinuating anything, I'm saying it very directly. If such a list exists, those in there who return to iran will obviously face some kind of consequence. You already agreed to this, so at this point I'm not even sure what we're talking about.
Did I suggest nothing will happen to them or you don’t know for a fact something will like you were suggesting.

Let’s end this here please. If I said something disrespectful I’m sorry, like you said people are losing their life’s for us to be even going back and forth about it.
 

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nice try but not everyone has engaged in chattel slavey colonialism and genocide!

there are the people who enjoy all the perks of colonialsm and imperialism and there are the people who suffer tremendously from these actions!

the typical western mental gymnastics:

westerners: we are by far the best

the global south: you've killed and enslaved millions. colonised 80% of the planet and amassed its resources.

westerners: hey, everyone has done bad things. we made mistakes yes but we admit it which by default makes us the best.
No idea who these Western supremacists are that say we are by far the best. I'd say we are largely shite, but I also think we give labourers and lgbt people a better chance at life than most middle eastern countries and I feel it's okay to say this witouth having to excuse myself for the fact that my car needs oil (not mine personally but eh) and that I cannot state with 100% certainty what the hourly rate of people who made my pants is.

Deflecting criticism by pointing at something else is weak. Especially when doing it in conjunction with a silly strawman like claiming that all westerners scream they are the best. I'd say at least some of us are very critical of both our current and past misdeeds. Especially people here on caf. If you're ever promoted and get access to the general, you will realise what a silly thing it is you're saying on here.
 
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MDFC Manager

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Boycotting is meaningless anyway. My wife has been boycotting football games forever and had zero impact whatsoever!

It is better to be there and protest. Making noise might have some effect, at least for future decisions.
Absolutely! Which is why I felt that the English, German, Danish etc FA's should have gone ahead with the One Love armband and taken the yellow card punishment, even if just for one game.
 

Foxbatt

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Absolutely! Which is why I felt that the English, German, Danish etc FA's should have gone ahead with the One Love armband and taken the yellow card punishment, even if just for one game.
And lose all the business? Privately the governments would put pressure.
 

shamans

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The Iran comparison is an interesting point. My question to the harshest critics of the Qatar world cup -- the way western media has talked about Qatar and it's possible boycott (slaves and killings) is it even different to what is happening in Iran?

That itself should be a red flag that there's some biased reporting going on here.
 

stevoc

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We see differently on a few things but I do want to correct you on the "rich since 70s".

I've lived in the middle east and Qatar was not rich until the late 90s. Nothing like the Saudis and UAE. The gas processing and export really started in the 90s when they signed deals with Japan and India I believe.

Don't take my word for it look it up yourself if you wish but Qatar is new money even by middle east standards.
No worries mate I acknowledged as much in my last post.

They discovered their Gas in 1971 but it's not an important point to debate. Maybe they weren't reaping the benefits of it until the 90's I wouldn't know without looking further into it.
 

Boavista

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The Iran comparison is an interesting point. My question to the harshest critics of the Qatar world cup -- the way western media has talked about Qatar and it's possible boycott (slaves and killings) is it even different to what is happening in Iran?

That itself should be a red flag that there's some biased reporting going on here.
Don't think I'd count myself among the harshest critics, but still interested. Can you clarify your question? Not sure I understand what you're asking. Difference in media coverage of what's happening in Iran now, and the criticism in Qatar?
 

DutchRed7

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Just so i have it right: Hassan al-Thawadi said to Piers Morgan that he thinks about 400 to 500 workers have died during the building of the Stadiums, and Infantino said about 3(!) workers died?
 

Pintu

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They are making money for themselves. They would have already agreed a price with FIFA a long time ago.

The same ITV who are talking negatively about Qatar are then running Qatar tourism ads multiple times during the game.
Are you sure absolut this? No viewership related bonuses?

Because I am certain I’ve read that FIFA always includes bonuses in their broadcasting rights (A World Cup with England and Wales is worth much more to British tv than one without them, it makes sense they pay less/more in different cases.. And there was a little controversy when they awarded the 2026 to the joint North American bid, as that decision was going to earn Fifa 100s of millions in bonuses. (A special bonus had been included in the tv rights with some broadcasters, that they’d pay much more if it took place there).
 

Pintu

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Don't think I'd count myself among the harshest critics, but still interested. Can you clarify your question? Not sure I understand what you're asking. Difference in media coverage of what's happening in Iran now, and the criticism in Qatar?
I got a feeling he is insinuating that things in Iran might not be as bad as we think they are…
 

Pintu

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And lose all the business? Privately the governments would put pressure.
Lose what business? If your engagement for LGBT rights is genuine, then a yellow card shouldn’t stand in the way… If it’s just a virtue signaling PR campaign on the other hand…
 

stevoc

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reading these posts was awkwardly painful. Regardless of where, people should not die doing their jobs. It’s not about who scores less.

i’m not aiming at the posters, but just upset by the fact that people’s lives have become so cheap.
Yeah that's a fair comment, it does feel a bit off discussing these things when you realize those numbers are people's lives.
 

Rood

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I got a feeling he is insinuating that things in Iran might not be as bad as we think they are…
I read it as saying things are much worse in Iran on a human rights level yet Qatar is getting more negative press - which is a valid point
 

Foxbatt

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Lose what business? If your engagement for LGBT rights is genuine, then a yellow card shouldn’t stand in the way… If it’s just a virtue signaling PR campaign on the other hand…
What are you on about? It's all a PR stunt by the governments. Do you want they care a feck about it? It's all about money. It's not the first time and it won't be the last time. I agree that the general public is genuine. But the governments are not.
 

Pickle85

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I read it as saying things are much worse in Iran on a human rights level yet Qatar is getting more negative press - which is a valid point
Well, yes, but that's not exactly surprising is it? One is currently hosting the biggest tournament in world football (the most popular game in the world) while the other is an oppressive regime without a free press that hasn't invited the world in while it hosts the aforementioned tournament.
 

shamans

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Don't think I'd count myself among the harshest critics, but still interested. Can you clarify your question? Not sure I understand what you're asking. Difference in media coverage of what's happening in Iran now, and the criticism in Qatar?

I got a feeling he is insinuating that things in Iran might not be as bad as we think they are…
No. More that Qatar is not as bad as (or frankly comparable to) Iran but they're put in the same bucket as per media reports

The average viewer probably cannot differentiate between Qatar and Iran at this moment due to the media coverage. Qatar has been labelled murderers, slave owners, dictators and so has Iran.

Unless you think both situations are the same, it should be a clear red flag of biased reporting when it comes to Qatar
 

Boavista

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What are you on about? It's all a PR stunt by the governments. Do you want they care a feck about it? It's all about money. It's not the first time and it won't be the last time. I agree that the general public is genuine. But the governments are not.
Neither Qatar nor EU countries would stop trading over the armband issue, no matter which way that goes.

Some teams and/or FAs wanted to do it, but in the end clearly not at all costs. Not much to do with governments really
 

Pickle85

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No. More that Qatar is not as bad as (or frankly comparable to) Iran but they're put in the same bucket as per media reports

The average viewer probably cannot differentiate between Qatar and Iran at this moment due to the media coverage. Qatar has been labelled murderers, slave owners, dictators and so has Iran.

Unless you think both situations are the same, it should be a clear red flag of biased reporting when it comes to Qatar
Why? See my post above - the discrepancy between the extent to which each are reported on is easily explained. You even acknowledge that the context within which Qatar is reported on isn't comparable to Iran but then go on to use it as an example of the way in which reporting is biased when directly compared to Qatar. You can't have it both ways.
 

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Well, yes, but that's not exactly surprising is it? One is currently hosting the biggest tournament in world football (the most popular game in the world) while the other is an oppressive regime without a free press that hasn't invited the world in while it hosts the aforementioned tournament.
Well no it's not surprising because I see bias and hypocrisy at every level of the media reporting about this World Cup
 

Pickle85

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Well no it's not surprising because I see bias and hypocrisy at every level of the media reporting about this World Cup
But do you fundamentally see why one is more widely reported on than the other? Surely you don't believe that it's exclusively bias and hypocrisy? I totally agree that the situation in Iran (and many, many other places) should be more widely reported on but it's disingenuous to use the press coverage of Qatar (a country that's hosting the most widely reported on sporting event in the world) as a reference point against which coverage of all other human rights crises should be measured.
 

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But do you fundamentally see why one is more widely reported on than the other? Surely you don't believe that it's exclusively bias and hypocrisy? I totally agree that the situation in Iran (and many, many other places) should be more widely reported on but it's disingenuous to use the press coverage of Qatar (a country that's hosting the most widely reported on sporting event in the world) as a reference point against which coverage of all other human rights crises should be measured.
Yes and no I don't

Sure Qatar deserves criticism and some negative press, but it's all gone too far IMO
 

Pickle85

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Yes and no I don't

Sure Qatar deserves criticism and some negative press, but it's all gone too far IMO
Fair play, I can understand that. I wonder if the Qatari bid could have magically seen into the future during the bid process to how it would all turn out, whether they'd have still gone ahead with it. Hypothetical to which we'll never know the answer, of course!
 

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Fair play, I can understand that. I wonder if the Qatari bid could have magically seen into the future during the bid process to how it would all turn out, whether they'd have still gone ahead with it. Hypothetical to which we'll never know the answer, of course!
I think they will probably still see it as a net positive - a decade ago half the planet had never even heard of Qatar

I wouldnt assume that all press around the world have been as negative as the UK media either
 

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I'm pretty sure that if the World Cup was being held in Iran right now there would be more boycotting/uproar than what we've seen recently.

I don't think it's strange that a country comes under more scrutiny/attention after being awarded an international event, inviting 31 other countries and their media inside said country and then broadcasting to billions of people daily.
 

shamans

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Why? See my post above - the discrepancy between the extent to which each are reported on is easily explained. You even acknowledge that the context within which Qatar is reported on isn't comparable to Iran but then go on to use it as an example of the way in which reporting is biased when directly compared to Qatar. You can't have it both ways.
I'm not just talking about context. Water and Qatari government have done nothing comparable to Iran and that's my point. It's not two issues of the same general thing but one more severe than the other. It's completely different.

Yet media berates Qatar in the same breath as Iran.
 

maniak

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but it's all gone too far IMO
That's the nature of the beast though, everything about major events goes too far. We've had body language experts on tv checking if there was something wrong between ronaldo and bruno.
 

shamans

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Fair play, I can understand that. I wonder if the Qatari bid could have magically seen into the future during the bid process to how it would all turn out, whether they'd have still gone ahead with it. Hypothetical to which we'll never know the answer, of course!
The online/BBC hysteria is hardly relevant to them. The event has attracted investors like no other. Any business person or entity worth attracting has turned their head so I doubt they'll care.

So far the event organization has been really good so unless something goes wrong by the end, this will be a success for them.
 

Pickle85

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I'm not just talking about context. Water and Qatari government have done nothing comparable to Iran and that's my point. It's not two issues of the same general thing but one more severe than the other. It's completely different.

Yet media berates Qatar in the same breath as Iran.
I'm not quite sure what your point is here. That criticism of Qatar should be separated from criticism of Iran by a certain arbitrary amount of time? Ironically, the only people I've seen comparing the two contexts are the people arguing that Qatar are being treated unfairly by the media. I've yet to see anyone else look to claim that the two situations are remotely comparable.

I'm pretty sure that if the World Cup was being held in Iran right now there would be more boycotting/uproar than what we've seen recently.

I don't think it's strange that a country comes under more scrutiny/attention after being awarded an international event, inviting 31 other countries and their media inside said country and then broadcasting to billions of people daily.
Exactly this.
 

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so the on field enjoyment comes at the cost of at least 400 if not 500 lives

ah well at least its not your family