Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[EwanI Ted]

I think the key will be to try and keep it off the conference agenda - not sure if they will be successful in that but i suspect that will be the aim

Free votes makes some sense (though it will also make the party seem disunited but thats probably the trade off for the party not tearing its self apart) - But I think the problem is that 99% of labour MPs will be arguig for remain or leave in that free vote if corbyn tries to hold a neutral position I think hes ' feked (presubably I will deliver whatever the people want is in his mind how it will go - in truth he will be attached as gutless and not prepared to tell us what he thinks on the biggest issue of the day - he will be destroyed in every interview and hes not the best interviewee anyway but seeing him trying to avoid giving an opinion... well its not exactly straight talking politics is it)

i'm not sure spending the next two years refusing to have a (public) view on Brexit is doable for Corbyn. At the moment he can brush it off by focussing on the Tories and their deal, or on avoiding no deal, which after all is the priority. But going through a general election and then an entire renegotiation process with the EU while refusing to ever say if he thinks his deal is better or worse than remaining? That's a tough ask.

Its also unclear what would happen to the Government duing that period. Would ministers also be expected to stay neutral during that process if the Prime Minister was? I dont see how he can maintain party discipline now when most of the senior (shadow) ministers have already said they'd back Remain, that cats out of the bag. But if he doesnt at least try to maintain discipline and pretty much every senior minister goes around saying that Remain is the best option for the next couple of years, well, that'll destroy any semblence of leadership.

 

[Dobba]

Who do you think will suffer the most in this country because of a mess made seismically worse by Corbyns career-serving ambivalence?

It wouldn't happen to be the same people who were specifically targeted with cuts and racist policy, with the complete backing of the person who you claims genuinely cares about the interests of this country would it?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

So he's not just any Brexiteer, but a 'No Deal' Brexiteer who keeps requesting it be taken off the table.

He's fighting the Tories - if he was a true remainer he'd be fighting to stay in the EU .
No Deal can't be taken off the table no more than being in a customs union and doing your own deals nor having the same benefits as the EU without being in it nor stopping FoM but having the same access to the SM - none of this is possible.

 

[Honest John]

It wouldn't happen to be the same people who were specifically targeted with cuts and racist policy, with the complete backing of the person who you claims genuinely cares about the interests of this country would it?

Yeah, you're already in pain but I'll make sure that you're beaten up even more so that when I come along with my socialist sticking plaster you think I'm a Saviour.

 

[Dobba]

Yeah, you're already in pain but I'll make sure that you're beaten up even more so that when I come along with my socialist sticking plaster you think I'm a Saviour.

You're concerned about people 'already in pain' now? Has Boris really dragged politics down that much since taking over from the person who genuinely cares about this country's interests?

 

[sun_tzu]

i'm not sure spending the next two years refusing to have a (public) view on Brexit is doable for Corbyn. At the moment he can brush it off by focussing on the Tories and their deal, or on avoiding no deal, which after all is the priority. But going through a general election and then an entire renegotiation process with the EU while refusing to ever say if he thinks his deal is better or worse than remaining? That's a tough ask.

Its also unclear what would happen to the Government duing that period. Would ministers also be expected to stay neutral during that process if the Prime Minister was? I dont see how he can maintain party discipline now when most of the senior (shadow) ministers have already said they'd back Remain, that cats out of the bag. But if he doesnt at least try to maintain discipline and pretty much every senior minister goes around saying that Remain is the best option for the next couple of years, well, that'll destroy any semblence of leadership.

tbf I dont think its manageble over an election cycle even so id not even considered the remote possibility that standing on that platform labour could win power... i think thornberry, mcdonald, and starmer have already come out and said they would campaign for remain - I suspect probably 80%+ perhaps even 90%+ of labour MP's would so its going to look very strange if corbyn does not pick a side... one narative will be your a leaver your just too scared to come out against the majority of your party... the other narative will be your a remainer but trying to win remainer votes - he will bleed support on both sides I think.

 

[711]

Corbyn may have not announced it as official policy but this approach of free votes has been discussed for most of the last year in public by key figures. I wouldn't immediately presume a lack of support for campaigns from Labour.

It would be incredible to suggest that the result will rely on the funding of either campaign though. We're already 3 years into an anti-brexit campaign that has taken up 95% of news coverage in that time frame.

I was always of the opinion that the main parties and especially the government should have been neutral in the original campaign. We might not be in this mess if they had.

I think they both allowed their own MPs to campaign either way originally, where they cocked up was after the referendum, in the votes for May's deal etc. Then they should have recognised their own MPs were still split and allowed them a free vote. If Corbyn had done that it could well have forced May to follow suit, and we might have ended up with May's deal or a second referendum quite a while ago, given the majority of MPs are supposedly Remain. I'm not casting blame on Corbyn on this occasion though, I can understand him seeing the opportunity for an election, but in hindsight it was an opportunity missed, for him too the way it's going.

 

[WensleyMU]

What an idiotic response.

There is always something worse going on around the world.

In any situation you do what is right. Its not complicated.

Clearly you are one of those hysterical types, so lets leave it there, less you feel the need to lie again.

 

[Fully Fledged]

1) They will obviously say that given the circumstances in attempting to protect her legacy
2) I'm not obligated to do as her husband says if I think that a sitting MP being murdered is a relevant fact in forming an opinion
3) The incident could be considered indicative of how the racist hate mob react so in my view it is relevant when identifying the threat of one side using violent rhetoric and threats

Yep.

 

[Raulduke]

This is appalling, the implication is clear and insidious, that this man's action may not have been motivated by genuine concern for the conditions in which his very young child is being treated simply because of his party affiliation.

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Then she practically invites Boris trolls to pile on.

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[Red Dreams]

Clearly you are one of those hysterical types, so lets leave it there, less you feel the need to lie again.

Clearly you are a dishonest person.

Lets leave it at that.

Please continue to lie again.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

This is appalling, the implication is clear and insidious, that this man's action may not have been motivated by genuine concern for the conditions in which his very young child is being treated simply because of his party affiliation.

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Then she practically invites Boris trolls to pile on.

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God she's pathetic.

 

[sammsky1]

This is appalling, the implication is clear and insidious, that this man's action may not have been motivated by genuine concern for the conditions in which his very young child is being treated simply because of his party affiliation.

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Then she practically invites Boris trolls to pile on.

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I'm writing an official complaint to BBC on this. http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/

Normally you dont need too many for some form of recognition or action to be taken.

If all who sympathise on this thread send a complaint, will probably make a difference

 

[Grinner]

I complained. It's a bit of a shag but worth it for that woman.

 

[Adisa]

Kuenssberg is a rat.

 

[Maticmaker]

I think they both allowed their own MPs to campaign either way originally,

That was because they all thought (Farage included) the vote would be for remain and MPs would be swayed by whichever way the majority of their constituents voted.

The problem is traceable back to the fact that from the late 80's and throughout the 90's whenever the UK signed another treaty without reference to the people, the anti-EU feeling started to build in the UK, fuelled by the Press. Remember Jacques Delore and his comments about reference to the British people, and them not being 'good Europeans' the press had him on toast. Jeremy Corbyn was in the thick of it and it is somewhat ironic (at least to my way of thinking) the fact a hard-leftie like Corbyn was anti-EU, seem to persuade many middle of the road voters and even some traditional Labour voters if Jeremy was against the EU, they should be for it!

The main Tory Party anti EU feeling came to the fore when there was talk of monetary union and before that Delores insistence on moving the EU towards further integration. Of course Blair put the tin lid on it with his implementation of FoM policies, and finally Cameron, buoyed by his success in the Scottish Referendum, thought he would go for the 'double' and put the EU question to bed once a for all, he saw his legacy looming as the man who saved the Union and confirmed the UK's European epiphany... boy did he get that last one wrong!

 

[BobbyManc]

I'm writing an official complaint to BBC on this. http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/

Normally you dont need too many for some form of recognition or action to be taken.

If all who sympathise on this thread send a complaint, will probably make a difference

They don't half make the whole process of filing a complaint a tortuous process. Clearly designed to try and hope people lose the will to bother with it.

 

[Hammerfell]

This is appalling, the implication is clear and insidious, that this man's action may not have been motivated by genuine concern for the conditions in which his very young child is being treated simply because of his party affiliation.

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Then she practically invites Boris trolls to pile on.

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Hey look @nickm, more people are being nasty about Laura!

 

[sammsky1]

They don't half make the whole process of filing a complaint a tortuous process. Clearly designed to try and hope people lose the will to bother with it.

I complained. It's a bit of a shag but worth it for that woman.

Yeah I noticed that too! But only takes 90 secs if you persevere!

I normally dont bother, but Im quite outraged by Kuenessberg abuse of power here.

State media is acting as the Government's thought patrol. This is getting very weird.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

I'm writing an official complaint to BBC on this. http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/

Normally you dont need too many for some form of recognition or action to be taken.

If all who sympathise on this thread send a complaint, will probably make a difference

Done here as well. Revolting.

 

[Buster15]

I'm not sure that the accusation of hypocrisy stands.
I full agree that he doesn't especially care whether we're in the EU or not and considers it an irritating distraction from more critical issues.
Clearly the chaos in the Tories being maximised suits him.
However, I don't think you can claim that not backing May's deal means that engineering even more chaos for political gain is more plausible than him genuinely not agreeing with it. It could just as easily be argued that this demonstrates he's working in the country's interests.
Corbyn is not the cause of this issue and I'm not sure a committed remainer at the head of Labour would have resulted in less chaos.

Exactly. It is quite incredible that some people think that it was only Corbyn and the Labour party that voted against the WA.
It was nothing of the sort so let's get real.

 

[BobbyManc]

Yeah I noticed that too! But only takes 90 secs if you persevere!

I normally dont bother, but Im quite outraged by Kuenessberg abuse of power here.

State media is acting as the Government's thought patrol. This is getting very weird.

Unfortunately it's past the stage of being weird anymore. It's completely normal and to be expected at this stage. I was amazed that Kuennsberg drew attention to the incident in the first place and actually framed it in a way that could not be accused of being sympathetic to Johnson. Yet fast forward a couple of hours and you can sense her glee at the latest development. If you have a young daughter who is not receiving adequate treatment at the NHS because of government neglect, your sense of injustice is rendered null and void if you are left-wing, apparently.

 

[sammsky1]

Unfortunately it's past the stage of being weird anymore. It's completely normal and to be expected at this stage. I was amazed that Kuennsberg drew attention to the incident in the first place and actually framed it in a way that could not be accused of being sympathetic to Johnson. Yet fast forward a couple of hours and you can sense her glee at the latest development. If you have a young daughter who is not receiving adequate treatment at the NHS because of government neglect, your sense of injustice is rendered null and void if you are left-wing, apparently.

Yes! Don't think she has throught this one through, couldn't resist her FOMO urges, and tweeted in the heat of the moment.

If Labour puts its entire machinery behind exposing this as an abuse of power, I think she'll come to regret. Am sure the chap involved is considering his options as we speak.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

I complained. It's a bit of a shag but worth it for that woman.

I daren't. She'll out me on Twitter and I'll get bombarded with DM's from furious old men on the cusp of Type 2 diabetes.

Also these threads (Brexit, Westminster, Brexit court case) are a feckin mess at the moment with conversations on the same topics bleeding into them all.

 

[WensleyMU]

Not sure what the big deal is over him being a Labour activist. Sounded like a dad in hospital because his daughter is ill who happened to come across one of the few people who can do something about the issues in the NHS.

 

[MadMike]

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I liked the bit about his girlfriend's flat

EDIT: Also this

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[SteveJ]

I daren't. She'll out me on Twitter and I'll get bombarded with DM's from furious old men on the cusp of Type 2 diabetes.

 

[Grinner]

That's a good line.

 

[Dobba]

Not sure what the big deal is over him being a Labour activist. Sounded like a dad in hospital because his daughter is ill who happened to come across one of the few people who can do something about the issues in the NHS.

Because if you focus on that you don't have to talk about how the Prime Minister lied directly into his face about the press not being there or the substance of the guy's claims about the hospital being overstretched and how government policy has affected that.

 

[horsechoker]

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heh!

 

[BobbyManc]

Not sure what the big deal is over him being a Labour activist. Sounded like a dad in hospital because his daughter is ill who happened to come across one of the few people who can do something about the issues in the NHS.

The only reason it should "matter" is if you believe that his political activism means that he is being disingenuous. So why on earth the BBC seem so desperate to draw attention to his Labour affiliation is beyond comprehension. Especially the way that they are framing it as a "Gotcha!" moment. It's quite frankly a damning indictment of the state of the BBC at the moment. It's the sort of framing that the editor at The Sun would be proud of.

 

[Dobba]

The only reason it should "matter" is if you believe that his political activism means that he is being disingenuous. So why on earth the BBC seem so desperate to draw attention to his Labour affiliation is beyond comprehension. Especially the way that they are framing it as a "Gotcha!" moment. It's quite frankly a damning indictment of the state of the BBC at the moment. It's the sort of framing that the editor at The Sun would be proud of.

Frequent BBC guest Tom Newton Dunn or the one that looks like his own melting waxwork?

 

[SteveJ]

The BBC has been terrified of displeasing the Conservatives ever since Cameron threatened to end tv licensing.

 

[WensleyMU]

To be fair to the BBC, ITV are also reporting it.

Any idea how they found out?

 

[Damien]

To be fair to the BBC, ITV are also reporting it.

Any idea how they found out?

Found out that he's an activist? Probably because it says clearly on his twitter account.

and Guido noticed it and spread it

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[WensleyMU]

Found out that he's an activist? Probably because it says clearly on his twitter account.

Ah. I was thinking about how they found out his name, which led them to his Twitter.

 

[Damien]

Ah. I was thinking about how they found out his name, which led them to his Twitter.

Oh. Might have just been someone doing a search on twitter and found his posts as he tagged the hospital a few times.

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[4bars]

So when a Labour activist tells the truth about the NHS they are lies because he is a Labour activist?

 

[BobbyManc]

The BBC has been terrified of displeasing the Conservatives ever since Cameron threatened to end tv licensing.

Terrified implies that it's a decision of expediency and not one of ideological congruity. I think there's definitely an aspect of the former but I'd attribute it by and large to the latter.

 

[SteveJ]

Terrified implies that it's a decision of expediency and not one of ideological congruity. I think there's definitely an aspect of the former but I'd attribute it by and large to the latter.

Agreed.