Which is why voting should be compulsory.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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Well indeed. If I was the EU, I would tell the UK to piss off if they tried to rejoin any time in the next decade or two. I wouldn’t want a country that is liable to try to leave again at the first sign of trouble, you need more stability than that.
You have completely misunderstood my posts. I didn't say I was leaving the thread. I said that post would be the last if there were only positive UK posts. Secondly there is absolutely zero chance that the UK will be rejoining the EU within my life time. The only solution is to get gradually closer not further away. The longer it takes to start reversing the process , the longer it will be before eventually there may be a reunification, decades in the future.
Sorry, but it will only get more painful the longer there is no appetite to do something about it. Brexit has only just started.
I haven’t misunderstood anything. I know you’re not leaving the thread, your post history suggests the exact opposite as I said. I just found it funny that you would even suggest that it was an option considering how often you post on this thread and based on a rule (this thread only being about positive news) that literally nobody has ever suggested.
This is exactly what we’re talking about……it feels like there’s a random phrase generator that churns out such phrases. I’m not really sure what your point is, other than a seeming glee at the situation. We know Brexit has only just started….
I'm amazed that the majority who voted for Brexit haven't changed their minds' and realised that "Project Fear" was actually Project Underestimating the Shitshow.
You have still misunderstood my post.
You wrote and I quote"
I think people who are technically on the same side of the argument as you are trying to explain why your at times almost gleeful posts about the various issues in the UK, with a solution of essentially immediately begging the EU to let us back in (while also acknowledging that the EU will in the short to medium term rightly say no) without realising that it would be electoral suicide and lead to just more of this same nonsense…..can get rather old at times for those of us who are still here living in this mess?
And that its a bit funny that you’re threatening to leave the thread
Have not said either of those - making it up as you go along?
Tell me what you want me to say. I was criticised for posting a positive Brexit outcome and then you come in and start counting my posts. What am I allowed to post? Please tell me.
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Is it that surprising though? It takes admitting a massive mistake and that you have also been duped. Human psychology suggests it is far more likely people will grasp at straws rather than admit the truth.
Is it too on the nose to reference how religious opponents of evolution come up with nonsensical explanations of fossils and scientific evidence rather than admit defeat?
Nope, & the nose is a toucan nose.
Perhaps it is the scientist in me expecting people to adjust their view as the data/evidence changes?
But sadly there seems to be no cure for stupid.
Yeah well, you are describing the polarization of today's society. The duality. Chosing an option as a football team and not changing it even if the refree blatantly helped you and you dont deserve to win
Brexit is no exception and yes, ideally remainers and brexiters should work with the cards that you (chose to) have.
And actually both sides are correct on their preferences. Brexitiers voted mainly for soverignty, control borders and nationalism and remainers voted for the economy. Then brexiteers should stop lying on the economic part. Great, you have more sovereignty, more saying in policies without external influence. Sell the brexit like that, you have it. But please dont sell it like a economic success because is BS. Politicians and brexiteers should say that it compensates them to win all this control over national matters losing a bit economically. Being honest about it because if not both parts will stay in their fecking bunker that brexit is better for everything and this is stupid. Economically is rubbish and instead of backtrack and get closer to the EU, they want to make it worse to proof that the more separate are in standards from the EU, the better economics results they will have. Utter madness
The difference is that those who voted remain have no reason to change their opinion. Anyone who thinks it has been anything other than a disaster is simply deluded.
Anyone who thinks the disaster is a price worth paying for "sovereignty" is .. well .... I'm not sure what the right term is.
Which is why voting should be limited to people that would have a notion of politics of all colours. Stupid people, leftist or rightist should not be allowed to vote
The one thing I find heartening from these latest posts is that a group of diverse people who seem to have a level of intellect are pretty much on the same side of the argument.
Brexit was and will continue to be a huge mistake.
And all of the people of the UK no matter which way they voted are paying the price.
Notwithstanding that. I don't believe that the UK will never recover from that. It will adjust to the new norm and it will gradually grow its economy outside the EU.
Because one thing I have learnt over my 70+ years is never to write the UK off. And I certainly don't.
Brexit was and will continue to be a huge mistake.
And all of the people of the UK no matter which way they voted are paying the price.
Notwithstanding that. I don't believe that the UK will never recover from that. It will adjust to the new norm and it will gradually grow its economy outside the EU.
Because one thing I have learnt over my 70+ years is never to write the UK off. And I certainly don't.
Stupid. Also likely racist.
Mostly I suspect.
The point is - what is the vision for the next say 12 years? - almost 20 years after the referendum.
Until the next GE - you have the Brexit Bill - will the UK leave the ECHR, the EES system being implemented in the EU, whether the NIP will be implemented. And to top the lot the Uk will be changing standards.
Starmer may get elected. Eighteen months before he's even elected, his missions are doomed because he's trying to cuddle up to the Brexiters. Why say we will be the leading growth nation in the G7, why say we will lead the world in zero emissions, why say he's going to make Brexit work. Why talk about immigration and concentrate on the asylum seekers who, with a max of 15000 claims refused make up 3% of immigration. And he thinks he's renegotiating the deal with the EU. He didn't say which deal - Withdrawal agreement's not going to be changed - the NIP has to be implemented and only affects Ireland unless they decide not to implement it which will cancel the other deals. The remaining deal is the trade agreement which could have minor amendments in 2026.
The problems of not being in the CU and SM are not going away and the Uk are diversifying even more with standards etc. What are Starmer's views? Will he continue to diversify further to suck up to the Brexiters? Will he leave the ECHR? Will he go ahead with the new standards? Will he continue with the Brexit bill or scrap it if it becomes law? Will he continue to try to send refugees to Rwanda?
So we then come to 2029 - if he gets in and his legacy is whether he has succeeded in his missions. Not optimistic , so he gets voted out again and another five years of Tories and the cycle recommences blaming everyone and everything.
In the meantime the UK are at the back of the queue for everything, food, investment, parts for industry and sales abroad to earn their growth.
Slogans and wild optimism ignoring all the problems the country has brought on itself are not going to help the UK.
Maybe someone could explain how this will work.
Paul used to be the voice of reason in here against the brexiteers. Now the brexiteers are all gone on he looks a bit mad.
Why? The country's still being brainwashed and lied to. The papers including the more reasonable ones are still trotting out the weather excuse/ government propaganda for the fruit/veg - even you fell for it.
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It isn't always about the government. Or the EU for that matter.
It is far more about the businessess and the people of the country.
Just because we have left the EU doesn't mean that those businessess and those people are going to do what they have always done.
Work, create, innovate, forge new relationships and grow.
That is happening now. Not because of government but in spite of it.
Harsh on @esmufc07
Yes, of course, but it doesn't remove the shackles and constraints that have been self implemented. As you say it's despite of the government. It's like trying to work in quicksand.
I know it's going to take a few more years before the country realises what it has done to itself. I can't get my point over.
You have got your point over Paul. Loudly and clearly. Albeit many of us including me don't profess to understand it as well as you.
And I do think that increasing numbers of people are beginning to realise that things have not worked out as they were led to believe.
But the point I am trying to get over is that things happen and you just have to accept it and move on. We can not keep trying to re-run the past. You can not change that.
But you most certainly can change the future.
And even at my age, I am looking to the future.
Quite honestly, it is not Brexit that I worry about.
It is the far more significant challenges of man made climate change. And those affect all of us.
Brexit was obviously going to be a disaster before the referendum. You cannot re-run the past but you can do something about what's the next step. It's the future I'm talking about, particularly the next few years. The Uk doesn't have to drift further away from the EU but both the Tories and Starmer seem intent on doing just that.
Climate change for one. Brexit has put the mockers on the development of new industry like battery factories in the UK. They are already far behind most of Europe. The Uk has to attract investment and research and development to develop this and then have the ability to buy the materials and then be able to sell the products. Having different standards and making selling even more difficult than it is now if they continue on the same trajectory.
No I haven’t. You wrote and I quote
‘If we're only going to post things that the UK will benefit from Brexit, this will be the last entry in this thread.’
Except nobody said we’re only going to post things that the UK will benefit from Brexit and, having made nearly 1 in 10 of the posts on this thread, many of the recent ones quoting people who were also remainers and saying pretty much the same thing over and over again (the UK is crap, the UK is doomed, you don’t even understand yet the consequences of Brexit, Brexit is only just starting, I can’t make my point etc), there is absolutely no risk of it being your last post on this thread. Again your very latest post is you telling Buster, a poster who probably agrees with you on 99% of the debate, in a thread where no Brexiteer posts anymore…..that you can’t get your point over, as if there are scores of people talking about how great Brexit is on here and disagreeing with you.
My understanding of your solution is
A) All political parties to outline how much of a disaster Brexit is and will remain to be, consistently and persistently
B) Immediate and complete realignment with the EU on almost every single aspect, with the aim of eventually (ie in decades) convicing them to let the UK back in
Is it not? If not, perhaps you could enlighten us?
You can of course post whatever you want to, whenever you want to, just as I can post what I want to and am within my rights to say that your posts approach gleefulness (strange for someone who pretends they are so happy to have left and have no skin in the game anymore) and it gets tiring at a certain point. You can’t seem to get why even posters like Buster/MS/myself have responded as we have.
But as you rightly said, you can post what you like and I’m sure that in one week, one month, one year and probably 10 years, you’ll still be posting essentially some variant of the same phrases.
In summary - You still have not understood my post - keep digging.
I'm having a perfectly reasonable conversation with Buster. No my point is that the further the Uk drift away from the EU the worse it will get - if that's what you want so be it.
I don't think that Brexit is primarily the cause of failure to develop new EV battery production in the UK.
It is more about the shitty government policy that is putting off financial investors.
Intact you would have thought the opposite. Free from the EU, the government should have been able to give whatever inducements it wanted to attract them.
You have to remember that there are lots of vehicle manufacturers in Europe and most of them based in those countries. So they are much more likely to invest there.
That is not the case for UK and economics of scale suggest that, Nissan apart, investment is going to go closer to where the cars are made.
Oh, that is good!
The investors will look at what the future holds. Will the car manufacturers stay in the Uk.? They're all foreign owned. Even Nissan are making noises they may leave. Supply chains - different standards. The factories will have to comply with EU standards if they are going to sell to the EU or to the standards of whichever other country. You must remember the problems selling cars to the USA even before the UK joined the EC back in the 60s. There are many more factors to be taken into consideration.
That’s a silly thing to say. I quoted an article from Irish media about it, not English.
How is that what I want? Keep on making up silly straw men so that you can come in and post pithy one liners about how nobody other than you gets it.
What is your plan then? I saw JPR asked you a few days ago and your response was essentially that the opposition is shit. As I said, please do enlighten us as to what your plan would be as a UK politician at present in the short, medium and long term. A plan that can actually be enacted by getting voted in.
You told me I was wrong and then the next day you said I was right. And I explained as did others on here why Ireland had suffered some shortages as well.
Voted remain and think that Brexit was the biggest economic self own in history but do agree with this.
I am really grateful to have lived in the UK which has a unique culture of innovation and risk taking that doesn’t exist in certain parts of Europe. Certainly not where I live now in Spain.
Also it is a place where if you have the will to work you can achieve anything. Unemployment is so low that those who aren’t working aren’t because they choose not too.
In Spain there are people with 2 degrees working in bars because of lack of opportunities.
Overall it is a great country that will overcome this in time. Just a real shame the Conservative government and media consistently lie and manipulate the population.
What are you so upset about. Three times you've misunderstood my post.
Then I post an article from a British newspaper without me even making a comment and that upset you. I told JPR that the UK needs a decent politician with a backbone to stand up to the Brexiters. Caving into them will solve nothing.
Other posters have said that the mood is changing in the UK and that the majority are against Brexit but apparently it's political suicide to even suggest that it's not a good thing. So to get elected you have to pretend and lie. Haven't you had enough of that?
In the long term , however long it takes, the Uk will rejoin the EU. I won't live to see it.
In the short to medium term is not to drift too far away from the EU. The actions of the next few years could see irreparable damage or at least put the process back ten to twenty years.
Nissan and any other manufacturer will always say that they are going to leave for the simple reason that governments of whichever country will always try to induce them to stay by offering them whatever they want.
And the EV transition with batteries as a key ingredient is likely to centralise manufacturing.
And inside or outside the EU, the UK is an outlier, physically.
If you don't mind me saying, you seem to have an idealistic view of politicians. As if they can operate in a vacuum.
Even Margaret Thatcher came to realise that.
To be in a position of power you first have to attain that position of power. And surrounded yourself with a strong power base.
The whole subject of Brexit is highly toxic here. And that is why politicians have to skirt round the edges. Starmer understands that.
Now is not the right time.
I'm not upset, I find the strawmen you build to be funny though. Saying I misunderstand your post and then suggesting that I want divergence from the EU, based on nothing....
You still haven't really given anything of substance. Don't drift too far away from the EU, what does that mean in practice?
It's also arguably just what ' make brexit work', a phrase that seems to infuriate you, means, only presented in a slightly more electorally palatable way.
Because ultimately whether the UK decide they're going to be dicks and turn everything into a race to the bottom standards wise, or decide from very early on that it needs to align fully again with the EU and becomes the most Europhilic country on the continent....there will still be brexit and there will still be brexit for decades, as we are all pretty much in agreement on.
So constant self flagellation, at least electorally, is neither appropriate nor helpful. There has to be an attempt to make the best of a bad situation in the meantime.
Physical position is not the problem. The UK have been making vehicles for many years with the supply chains but not with different standards, not with customs checks and paperwork etc. When a gearbox for a Mini crosses the customs border five times, it becomes no longer viable to make the car in the UK. If a car is built to UK standards in the UK it is not sellable elsewhere and cars are the largest export of the UK at the moment. What happens now is not what was happening even three years ago. And the Uk government have announced that they are going to change the laws and standards - this is still to come.
Politicians only work for their personal ambition, I have no illusion. Starmer wants to get elected and he may spend five years as PM if he survives that long and then he's gone for good. No benefit whatsoever for the long term outlook for the UK other than short term getting rid of the lunatics currently in charge.
You say that now is not the right time . At what point does it become the right time - how bad does it have to get?
Notwithstanding that if Starmer gets elected and it all goes t!ts up , guess who's getting the blame for not implementing Brexit properly.
You seem to have selective reading problems; I have explained at length and yet you still want me to explain. When I say Brexit has only just begun, I don't just mean that it's only two years, I mean that full Brexit is far from being fully implemented. Starmer could stop part of that but he won't.
Four times and counting.
Actually, EV batteries because of their mass and the obvious safety issues with transporting batteries does bring it's own problems. Quite unlike those of a Mini gearbox.
And I am sure you understand that.
Anyway. As I have said before. we are both largely on the same side of the argument. Despite having differing views.
I would love things to be different. Really I would.
And I would love politicians to act on principles as opposed to populism.
But as an ex engineer, I have always dealt with the facts and not the emotions. Boring as that may seem.
Yes of course. We do share the same views in the main. In my job as well it was not based on emotion, not even this , although it is sad to see. The last thing you do in trade is put up barriers - there are more and more going up still. I am so sick of the lies and the gullibility of people. But hoping that all these problems are going to go away on their own, it's not happening.