Say that to the 50 people who are all making a living off the back of John's hard work, risk and entrepreneurship.
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Say that to the 50 people who are all making a living off the back of John's hard work, risk and entrepreneurship.
We have a press that carries water for the government, and have been villainising the EU since we joined, ans well as a public that are infantilised, and lack personal responsibility and critical thinking skills.
As shit as it sounds, the public have been groomed for manipulation and have been sold a con.
Are we claiming anyone knows anything about anything?
I don't get your point. I'm sure that you know a lot about your field, politicians have staffs that are specialized in all fields, they have the benefit of being briefed and informed if they need to. These people have no excuse to not do their job properly which is to take informed decisions.
Say that to the 50 people who are all making a living off the back of John's hard work, risk and entrepreneurship.
We've reached the point in history where we're taking ethics lessons from Communists. The people supporting a system that impoverished every nation it was adopted in, without fail. Oh the irony.
If you earn £123k shouldn't you be taking home about £75k or 61% - shedding about £42k in tax and 6k in NI contributions? The marginal tax on income between £100k and £123k is greater than 50%, but not overall.
Oh god please tell me you didn't go through all the trouble of reading those awful Ayn Rand books to come with this conclusion.
Making informed decisions is political suicide in brexit politics, even if they know the facts it is more expedient to state what people want to hear unless you have to stand by it. Look at what the response to Theresa May trying to bring reality to the idea of leaving the EU this week.
After 2 years she has accepted the pragmatic reality of leaving, but she is being teed off on by cretins who have no sense of responsibility over the decision. If the UK leaves the EU with no deal, people could actually die, but instead of accepting that it was the no deal brexit that caused it they will parade around like a fecking pigeon saying that they would have got a better deal or would have reduced tariffs to 0% or whatever bullshit talking point to deflect from their own responsibility..
New Labour did quite well in the early days because they were centrist and business friendly. To win power they needed to move that way. In so doing they lost touch with the traditional Labour base. With Corbyn there has been something of a resurgence. All the good that New Labour did was undone by Blair with Iraq and Brown with the crash and subsequent deficit. Now centrists in the labour ranks are consigned the back benches in fear of de-selection. I think the best of the Labour politicians are among those.
Whereas Labours current policies are popular and very honourable in many ways, they very are nanny and they ultimately ignore one important factor, as left wing regimes have done from time immemorial. Human nature, which for the most part is aspirational. Such regimes often need to resort to strict (bordering on brutal) measures to keep the people who put their heads over the parapet in line. Governments become more controlling and before you know it unremovable. Then the regime itself becomes more elitist and bourgeois than the bourgeoisie they ousted to get into power in the first place.
Momentum are doing a very good impression of laying the foundations for that.
Come on, you can't make a statement as extreme as this and then go all moderate about it here:
So what's the ideal system that you're working towards? Do you have a particular model society that you base it on?
Agree with this.
There really is no other way to put this but - this is batshit bollocks of the highest order. You sound like your talking about some 20th century communist regime and not the actual reality that is the todays Labour Party is offering basic social democratic policies. I would somewhat understand your position if there was even a hint of truth to want you are saying but what you are describing is in another reality. So I guessing there's not a lot I can say that will change your mind but honestly just do some research on labour policies(I can even give you some links if you want).[/QUOTE]
The 123k is total earnings including BIK's. I take home exactly 4k a month. But i have a fully expensed company car which obviously has a monetary value. It is a deisel though and on on top of the 29% x Purchase price BIK there is a 4% deisel surcharge making 33%. This makes the car benefit 13k for which I pay an additional 5k+ tax and they hit the fuel too. I took the car on contract hire in May 2016 before diesel became the fuel of the devil. I am looking to move to a petrol hybrid next May to try and alleviate things.
Exactly, impoverishing people is the hallmark of a failed system.
When we start having soup kitchens or food banks feeding thousands upon thousands of people in this country, we'll know we have problems.
It's not for me to write the recipes for the cook-shops of the future
The short term - Radical social democracy such as the Preston Model and Labour alternative models of ownership
https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/preston-model-modern-politics-municipal-socialism/
The long term - To put it simply a new form of Communism.
I'm in Preston and I can tell you that 99% of the population here have never heard of the 'Preston Model', I mean literally they are completely unaware of it's existence. Maybe that's part of the plan, who knows.It's not for me to write the recipes for the cook-shops of the future
The short term - Radical social democracy such as the Preston Model and Labour alternative models of ownership
https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/preston-model-modern-politics-municipal-socialism/
The long term - To put it simply a new form of Communism.
Thanks. Speaking as someone with no particularly strong views on favoured economic models, I find the moral certitude expressed by you and your ideological fellow-travellers on these issues here a bit fascinating and arrogant in some cases, especially given the historical record of the old (?) forms of Communism.
Modern communism... Erm
Employing teams of corbynistas to photoshop Blair from history rather than airbrushing Trotsky from photos?
A carbon fibre icepick?
Well that all sounds quite the bummer and it seems you've hit the sweet spot for getting a taxman tonking but I'm still a bit confused. This is obviously off topic, but this seems like you're paying 20% on <£35k, 40% on >£35k and 33% on benefits in kind and then some NI. None of these sound like they're greater than 50%.
What is the matter with you?
I'm far from arrogant as I couldn't tell you want this new form of communism would really be but capitalism is causing global warming and that is like really really bad.
As for the new form of communism will have to something completely different, it wouldn't be recreating of 20th century communism, although even in the 20th century were different forms of Communism. One party state Communism such as Cuban or the Soviet Union wasn't the same Communism envisioned by people like Rosa Luxembourg for example. Again(Because it's rather important) we are actually going to need a alternative to capitalism if we are going to survive climate without millions if not billions of people dying.
As for the historical record stuff yeah of course its really bad but meh I mean people love capitalism and it's historical records is shite Joking well actually not joking.
Well since you can't actually offer anything specific in regards to the economic model you claim you're working toward, maybe a little humility might be in order when assessing the endeavors of someone like @Honest John who seems to be making the best he can out of the system he actually finds himself in?
What ?
I said in one of my posts that todays labour party offer a different economic model and you moaned to me about being too moderate. So then I went for the future goal of communism and you moan that I'm not being specific enough.
Maybe a little humility might be in order when assessing the endeavors of someone having to answer shite questions.
50% is net pay but in reality you have to add the BIK net of tax because it has monetary value which would take me to about 58%
Doesn't it defeat the purpose if it isn't made of out ice ? I image a couple packs of glacier mints glued together would do the trick. Although I image just having to live as Tony Blair is punishment enough.
I didn't moan at you for being moderate, I just noted the discrepancy between your actual goal (which turns out to be "a new form of Communism") and your complaint with regards to the amount of tax John pays ("I'm not asking John to given all power to the workers(Although that would be great)just that he pays some more in tax."). You've noted yourself that today's Labour Party proposals don't (in your opinion) go nearly as far down this road as you'd like, so why bring them up at all in response to a question concerning your own preferred economic model?
And I've asked you just one question really, which may or may not be shite; but seriously, "a new form of Communism" that "I couldn't tell you want this new form of communism would be really" is supposed to be specific?
Fully-automated luxury communism, with real icepicks made of ice.
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It worries me that Momentum are reforming selection and deselection rules basically to get rid of moderates. It swings things wholly in favour of the party activists. And activists do not necessarily represent the views of the electorate.
Can't half this shit go in the general Westminster politics thread? This is for Brexit discussion only.
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which thread was that?
Imagine going through life believing that hard work, risk and entrepreneurship shouldn't be rewarded in any way whatsoever.
Hardly worth getting out of bed in the morning and when you do, why bother doing a decent days work, you won't be rewarded any better than someone doing the bare minimum.
Hardly worth getting out of bed in the morning and when you do, why bother doing a decent days work, you won't be rewarded any better than someone doing the bare minimum.
ok great let's pay accountants a teachers wage and teachers and accountants a teachers wage to better represent how hard they work
waste workers and fruit pickers deserve way more pay than bankers
= empty shops, black market economy paying shed loads for western goods because they are better and more reliable than the ones made in your country
It does, but the argument can be made that in the past, selections have largely been made in favour of the party machine and against activist voices. Of course, now the party machine is basically made up of activist voices. Can't blame them for wanting to seize the chance presented.
window cleaners and brick layers work harder than estate lawyers
border collies should get a better wage than food critics
the shitteist laziest doctor works more and harder in a week than most ceos do in their life
apart from gps, that one seems really easy