The impression I've had since the start of this farce is that a lot of the UK, both Remain and Leavers, expect to have a FTA as part of the deal. A FTA is not a given because the UK will have left, will no longer be part of the EU and further more will not be the solution to the damage Brexit will cause and is also dependent on the EU agreeing to that FTA. Nor can you stop no deal which would be dependent on the EU continuing to give extensions.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
for feck sake man, all you can find me is an article from a pro-leave website?
I'd look at the content rather than the author (plus I spec. I've changed my views based on remain viewpoints so I'm unsure why the opposite couldn't be the case. For example I didn't realise that the way the UK apply EU Health and Safety laws is more to blame than the laws themselves. So whilst I believe that the EU laws are far too onerous, if the UK applied and policed them in a more relaxed way as many other EU countries do, then they would not be an issue. A few more succinct articles as below.
https://capx.co/the-cap-doesnt-fit-why-the-eus-farm-subsidies-are-ripe-for-reform/
https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news...-to-our-continent-african-farmers-to-eu-63989
https://euobserver.com/environment/137407
https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/05/17/how-the-eu-hurts-the-worlds-poorest/
Essentially the CAP and general trade policy has been responsible for:
- Subsidising EU farmers giving them an unfair advantage over African competitors, providing finance for EU companies to invest in new technologies to increase productivity at the expense of African farmers who should have had this opportunity
- Historic subsidising of the exporting of food to African countries, meaning the indigenous population were unable to compete and therefore EU food reliant, rather than self reliant. The EU systematically used taxpayer monies to put African farmers out of business at a time when the latter were competitive.
- Cynical and exploitative trade policies whereby cheap and unprofitable non value added goods are subject to no tariff barriers (to the benefit of EU large business who require the cheap labour), but processed goods are subject to high tariffs. This means the raw materials are bought in cheap with little margin for the African producer, but then processed in the EU allowing large manufacturers with powerful lobbyists to profiteer. This exploitative trade policy is disguised as "free trade", when it is anything but.
- General import tariffs and regulations lobbied by large EU companies to create a financial barrier and financial disparity for trade
If the best response to this is "Britain would be just as bad if not worse", then I disagree simply because of the composition of the UK economy (we don't process raw materials like many of our EU neighbours... We buy them pre-processed from the EU). Not only that but the more local and therefore accountable the government is the easier it is for people to effect change.
I can see this stemming into hours of back and forth though since this forum seems to believe that the EU is without reproach. However I'd implore anyone to look at the damage caused to particularly African industry over the last 55+ years by EU policy on subsidies/tariffs and the countless lives and livelihoods ruined as a result to the benefit of mostly wealthy white Europeans. However EU trade and agriculture policy and its repercussions on the third world are off topic so any further debate should occur via PM.
Will the EU grant the extension as requested though? If they do not then that entails negotiation which the PM has ruled out. The the only option would be to revoke and considering the timetable for parliament is full until the 31st they wont have time. If they do accept as given, the Government will play for an election and i'm not sure how labour could avoid if delay has been achieved. Then the Brexit parties get in anyway. The torie's have played an exceptional hand here, they are going to somehow come out looking like the people's champions and their biggest threat could well be the brexit party and their simple 'clean break' strategy. The big mistake remainer's have made is to go the deplorable (demonize) route on leavers to make it practically impossible for leavers to consider labour or lib dems in any way. A lot of people to throw under the bus......
You did just claim that the Nazis were socialist which is about as sensible as claiming the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic.That's rich coming from you
And who doesn't love the Marx brothers. Just to avoid confusion Karl Marx wasn't one and Zeppo had nothing to do with lighters.
Why are some douchbag Labour MPs not supporting Comrade Corbyn on his wish to vote down the 2nd reading of the bill?! Pftt.
Last edited:
If your interestedThat's rich coming from you
and
Capitalism and Nazism - https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/04/capitalism-and-nazism
What happened to the fixed parliament act?
Nothing, it's still there.
Suspect its because a number of douchbag Labour MPs, Brexit not withstanding, have been living under the threat of deselection anyway, even before this latest charade. So now the gloves are off and they can vote as their constituents did on Brexit, presumably believing they will at least have a chance of getting back in at the next GE as 'Labour for Leave' or even perhaps Brexit Party MP's.
In essence they will now see themselves as being 'fire proof; hence' no whips threats can affect them now, they are already beyond that effectively as Labour PMs they are now on 'death row', at least as far as certain sections of the Labour party is concerned.
Jeremy has been repeatedly warning his party not to shoot themselves in the foot and now he's so close to a GE, he must be tearing his hair out!
Do tell which MPs that are supporting the bill have had their selection processes triggered?
Are we absolutely sure of that?
What if the EU offer of an extension is not negotiable? Boris has his first excuse to refuse, or to get into a time consuming discussions which have the effect of delaying until after the deadline. Or he can then do as he said he would and fall on his sword in a ditch, just as the clock strikes midnight on the 31st October!
That's the point no one knows for sure, numbers calculations on the upcoming votes in Parliament are 'up in the air' and as I said, I suspected this was the case, and which is adding to Jeremy's worries, somewhat unnecessarily!
Mann, Hoey and Fitzpatrick are not standing so don’t care. However someone posted Fitzpatricks constitutency voted remain?
There's no point engaging with someone who links National Socialism with the present policies of the Labour party
it's beyond parody. Either he's on the wind up or his knowledge of both ideologies is derisory. I suspect it's a combination of the two.Thanks for your response, and thank you for not aligning yourself with these small minded idiots who's only modus operandi is to get away with insulting as many people who disagree with their point of view as they can get away with.
This is exactly how Sassy Colin started.
You smell.
What about the AP - of NSDAP - Arbeiterpartei - Worker's Party - sounds a bit like ....
Massive Remain. Poplar Limehouse (includes Mile End) has huge Polish and East European population too). So I don't understand his stance at all.
Wonderful. You smell wonderful.
Well said.
Starmer clashes with shadow cabinet over second referendum
Shadow Brexit secretary faces backlash from Labour colleagues over party’s stance
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/22/starmer-clashes-shadow-cabinet-over-second-referendum-labour-brexit
The name, like their 25 point plan, was from 1919/1920, by the time they gained power in 1933 they were a completely different entity funded by big business. It's worth noting that most of their 'unalterable' 25 point plan was quietly forgotten once power was gained.
They changed but they appealed to business by dropping part of their anti-captilalist stance. However in 1934 - Hitler responded that Nazism was not exclusively for any class and indicated that it favoured neither the left nor the right, but preserved "pure" elements from both "camps" by stating: "From the camp of bourgeois tradition, it takes national resolve, and from the materialism of the Marxist dogma, living, creative Socialism"
Basically conning stupid people from all walks of life with nationalistic, xenophobic rhetoric.
Brilliant wonderful speech by Lammy!
Hitler's rhetoric is exactly that, rhetoric, the policies he enacted were to aid the businesses who funded the party not the workers.
How have we got to Hitler and Nazi Germany ?
Well, there was a vote in 2016 and everyone went mad.
Yes, certainly after the Strasserites were defeated internally, which happened well before 1934.
What’s expected? Is it that the government loses tonight’s vote as well?
Colin took a massive brain shit two pages back and Paul decided to roll in it.
I dislike Bill Cash more than any other person I have ever seen
This is exactly how a discussion on Nazi Germany started.
You are an obnoxious poster and all your posts are rubbish.
Yes with heavy borrowing which inevitably led to war with the workers convenient for cannon fodder and building the war machine.
Anyway, one would hope lessons have been learned. No way.