Adisa
likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt
Always thought Brexit is a massive plot to make us subservient to the US. Each passing episode in this shambles has me more convinced.
No not from the UK stand point, you refer to origins, which I accept I did not convey correctly, however when the UK joined in the 1970's the customs union existed and the aim of striving towards achieving a single market was well known and talked about, even in the UK. I do not dispute that certain features were not adequately explained or made plain to the UK public at the time of the first UK vote on Europe and Tony Benn and some other UK politicians did offer warnings; also there is no doubt that lingering aspects of that played a role in the Brexit referendum.It wasn't incomplete but simply wrong and it's also one of the reasons why Brexit happened, that narrative has been used for decades with people even claiming that the UK only joined the EEC which is not the case.
Problem is that the UK think the USA is their best friend and will fall over backwards for them. The USA have always used the UK to their advantage and always will do.Always thought Brexit is a massive plot to make us subservient to the US. Each passing episode in this shambles has me more convinced.
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odds of a deal before 1st jan 2021There’s a tonne of posturing on both sides at the moment. I’d put my money on a deal being struck.
Actually, can you bet on this? Anyone offering odds?
Going into a no deal WTO trade rules Brexit would, in normal times be an economic disaster.Brexit will deliver double shock to UK economy, study finds
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...e-shock-to-uk-economy-study-finds-coronavirus
The last comment will always amaze me. Around 50% of english fishing companies are owned by foreigners mainly Dutch, Icelanders and Spanish. Unless Brexit also includes nationalizing these companies it's the same people who are going to sell those fishes and they will sell them to whoever they want, my guess will be the largest food market in the world, Rungis.Brexit is saved!
I think the trend now is for people to double down on their opinion.I wonder if public opinion on Brexit in the UK might’ve shifted a year from now, when people experience its reality.
People still think Brits are going to be lining up to pick fruit for minimum wage once workers from Eastern Europe stop coming to Britain. A year from now I suspect that there will be a struggle to find people to do that job.
Then you’ve got the NHS which looks like it’ll be scraped to get a trade deal with the US. A hard border in Ireland seems like a certainty and that lorry park in Kent looks like fun.
I’m feeling relieved that I moved to Canada.
Anyone feeling optimistic about the immediate future in the UK?
Britannia will always rule the waves in Little Englanders' eyes.The last tweet will always amaze me. Around 50% of english fishing companies are owned by foreigners mainly Dutch, Icelanders and Spanish. Unless Brexit also includes nationalizing these companies it's the same people who are going to sell those fishes and they will sell them to whoever they want, my guess will be the largest food market in the world, Rungis.
I suspect the last comment is sarcasm...prettyplease? or I expect too much?The last comment will always amaze me. Around 50% of english fishing companies are owned by foreigners mainly Dutch, Icelanders and Spanish. Unless Brexit also includes nationalizing these companies it's the same people who are going to sell those fishes and they will sell them to whoever they want, my guess will be the largest food market in the world, Rungis.
The one on the right is probably not sarcasm because it has been a brexiteer focus for a very long time.I suspect the last comment is sarcasm...prettyplease? or I expect too much?
And of course, Britannia is taking back control.Britannia will always rule the waves in Little Englanders' eyes.
This article explains the situation well and you can understand why they are going to be very disappointed. Essentially the UK would have to change their own laws and philosophies that created that situation, especially when it comes to inciting the trade of fishing licenses and quotas.Isn't fishing a very small part of the UK economyI So if 50% of that small percentage is foreign owned brexiteers will be very disappointed in the results no matter what.
I really don't understand why fishing became such a point of contention for so many Brexit voters. Or for that matter, why the EU particularly cares about it even now. It is such a tiny proportion of our economies and has taken such a disproportionate focus.Isn't fishing a very small part of the UK economyI So if 50% of that small percentage is foreign owned brexiteers will be very disappointed in the results no matter what.
The EU cares because while it is not the largest industry it still has a massive impact on environment and the economy of certain areas. Not everyone lives in London or Paris.I really don't understand why fishing became such a point of contention for so many Brexit voters. Or for that matter, why the EU particularly cares about it even now. It is such a tiny proportion of our economies and has taken such a disproportionate focus.
Had to laugh at the idea of the Japanese being so keen to buy our fish though . And I have to ask, even if they do want to buy our fish, who the hell cares? Is the Yen suddenly more valuable than the Euro to British fishermen? Is 127 million suddenly a bigger market than 445 million?
The point is that fishing is small fry (pun intended) to the point of irrelevance when discussing being in or out of the EU.This article explains the situation well and you can understand why they are going to be very disappointed. Essentially the UK would have to change their own laws and philosophies that created that situation, especially when it comes to inciting the trade of fishing licenses and quotas.
I understand but my point was that even if it was a larger industry the problem were caused by british politicians and the larger fishermen which would still make the discussion of being in or out of the EU highly questionable when it comes to fishing.The point is that fishing is small fry (pun intended) to the point of irrelevance when discussing being in or out of the EU.
I think its because for the French particularly the prospect of fishermen blockading harbours and generally fecking about in the channel for the next year isnt one that helps macron electorally in France as it will help push the nationalist / anti eu agendaI really don't understand why fishing became such a point of contention for so many Brexit voters. Or for that matter, why the EU particularly cares about it even now. It is such a tiny proportion of our economies and has taken such a disproportionate focus.
Fair enough.I understand but my point was that even if it was a larger industry the problem were caused by british politicians and the larger fishermen which would still make the discussion of being in or out of the EU highly questionable when it comes to fishing.
Brexit doesn't make the news around here and has no weight in future elections. France is also not the country that has the most to lose, I get that the press in the UK loves to mention France but in that particular case the UK should focus on Spain, Netherland, Belgium and Denmark, in particular Netherlands and in general the European Fisheries Alliance.I think its because for the French particularly the prospect of fishermen blockading harbours and generally fecking about in the channel for the next year isnt one that helps macron electorally in France as it will help push the nationalist / anti eu agenda
I believe the uk sees this as a way to get other potential concessions... in truth not the worst negotiating tactic but I think the uk has probably overplayed its hand and is bricking it incase macron calls rather than folds as I believe cv19 will probably at least in the short term help pro eu sentiment more than a hard brexit will hurt it
But not enough in my opinion for it to be a supposed red line in negotiations for both sides.The EU cares because while it is not the largest industry it still has a massive impact on environment and the economy of certain areas. Not everyone lives in London or Paris.
I don't think that it's actually a red line for the EU and I'm not sure if it's one for the UK either. It's more a matter of grandstanding but at the end of day, they are going to have an agreement that will most likely be close to what currently exists, the other issues such as protecting the integrity of the EU market are far larger than that.But not enough in my opinion for it to be a supposed red line in negotiations for both sides.
Why is it so important to the British insert some insult about their stupidity. Why is it then so important for the EU insert a statement like this. The bias on this thread about this issue is unbelievable.The EU cares because while it is not the largest industry it still has a massive impact on environment and the economy of certain areas. Not everyone lives in London or Paris.
That's the thing that does my head in. Ignoring the part where you pretend that UK fisheries issues come from the EU, the man who is leading the fishing lobby is Gerard Van Balsfoort, he isn't french, he has nothing to do with Macron and he represents the foreign nation that has by far the biggest stake in UKs fishing industry. That type of narratives particularly aimed at France and Germany are nasty, they create bitterness for no good reason, there is no french intransigence, it's not a french problem, France aren't the ones that are going to fix or block things, it's a problem that concerns the fishing lobby at a continental level and while France are around the table, they aren't the larger player in itWhy is it so important to the British insert some insult about their stupidity. Why is it then so important for the EU insert a statement like this. The bias on this thread about this issue is unbelievable.
Granting access to UK waters was a demand made on the UK by the French when the UK joined the common market. The UK now has a chance to undo that because we are not in the EU anymore. It is important to both sides that is why the EU make it a prerequisite for any trade deal and the UK won't budge. The EU is not entitled to any say in UK EEZ post Brexit. Will EU countries who fish in the north sea be allowed some access post a trade deal, probably yes. Will the UK remain in the common fisheries policy probably not. Remember though its the EU that is demanding no change post Brexit which clearly has to happen as the UK is currently in the EU common fisheries policy having left The EU.
The UK is looking to address the imbalance which sees UK fishermen taking 35% of their own countries stocks and most fish stocks in the current EU waters are not at optimum sustainable take because the stocks can't grow due to over fishing. The EU fishing policy has been a disaster for UK fishermen and fish stocks and the marine environment. Hopefully we do a better job at it in the future.Either way it is the UK's EEZ to exploit under UN law.
The UK might capitulate on the principle yet and if so, so be it, but it seems unlikely at the moment. If the EU bans us from selling fish in to the EU then we can always leave them in the sea for a few years and harvest the long term greater bounty or try again when calmer heads return. Macron's problem is that all the EU countries benefit from a trade deal with the UK while only a small number benefit from over fishing British waters. If French intransigence blows the trade deal they probably won't be pleased but who knows its the EU and at least we don't have to get involved in those internal machinations anymore.
Fishing is a tiny practically irrelevant part of our economy and giving up the chances of a deal over it is stupid as feck. It's a nationalist issue and nothing more. If we want stuff from the EU (and we obviously do) then we have to offer things in return.Why is it so important to the British insert some insult about their stupidity. Why is it then so important for the EU insert a statement like this. The bias on this thread about this issue is unbelievable.
Granting access to UK waters was a demand made on the UK by the French when the UK joined the common market. The UK now has a chance to undo that because we are not in the EU anymore. It is important to both sides that is why the EU make it a prerequisite for any trade deal and the UK won't budge. The EU is not entitled to any say in UK EEZ post Brexit. Will EU countries who fish in the north sea be allowed some access post a trade deal, probably yes. Will the UK remain in the common fisheries policy probably not. Remember though its the EU that is demanding no change post Brexit which clearly has to happen as the UK is currently in the EU common fisheries policy having left The EU.
The UK is looking to address the imbalance which sees UK fishermen taking 35% of their own countries stocks and most fish stocks in the current EU waters are not at optimum sustainable take because the stocks can't grow due to over fishing. The EU fishing policy has been a disaster for UK fishermen and fish stocks and the marine environment. Hopefully we do a better job at it in the future.Either way it is the UK's EEZ to exploit under UN law.
The UK might capitulate on the principle yet and if so, so be it, but it seems unlikely at the moment. If the EU bans us from selling fish in to the EU then we can always leave them in the sea for a few years and harvest the long term greater bounty or try again when calmer heads return. Macron's problem is that all the EU countries benefit from a trade deal with the UK while only a small number benefit from over fishing British waters. If French intransigence blows the trade deal they probably won't be pleased but who knows its the EU and at least we don't have to get involved in those internal machinations anymore.
The UK has withdrawn many of its demands from its current negotiating position precisely to avoid that prid quo pro. The EU chief negotiator has said as much. The current EU position that the UK has to give access on the current basis to UK EEZ before any deal can go ahead is an attempt to hold on to the price tolled for UK entry post its exit. Most people would see that as unreasonable if they could bring themselves a little distance from the matter.Fishing is a tiny practically irrelevant part of our economy and giving up the chances of a deal over it is stupid as feck. It's a nationalist issue and nothing more. If we want stuff from the EU (and we obviously do) then we have to offer things in return.
As said so many times, apart from a few angry fishermen , nobody gives a toss and what is caught in UK waters is sold into Europe, if there's no agreement there's no point in the UK having the fish as they can't sell it and don't eat it.
Red herrings everywhere!
Putting to one side of the question whether or not the UK and its fishermen have a real grievance, how can it be sensible policy to risk significant disruption to the manufacturing and services sector in the hope of benefiting a tiny industry which contributes a fraction of 1% of GDP? It is just cynically playing to the gallery of ill-informed, knuckled-headed nationalism.Why is it so important to the British insert some insult about their stupidity. Why is it then so important for the EU insert a statement like this. The bias on this thread about this issue is unbelievable.
Granting access to UK waters was a demand made on the UK by the French when the UK joined the common market. The UK now has a chance to undo that because we are not in the EU anymore. It is important to both sides that is why the EU make it a prerequisite for any trade deal and the UK won't budge. The EU is not entitled to any say in UK EEZ post Brexit. Will EU countries who fish in the north sea be allowed some access post a trade deal, probably yes. Will the UK remain in the common fisheries policy probably not. Remember though its the EU that is demanding no change post Brexit which clearly has to happen as the UK is currently in the EU common fisheries policy having left The EU.
The UK is looking to address the imbalance which sees UK fishermen taking 35% of their own countries stocks and most fish stocks in the current EU waters are not at optimum sustainable take because the stocks can't grow due to over fishing. The EU fishing policy has been a disaster for UK fishermen and fish stocks and the marine environment. Hopefully we do a better job at it in the future.Either way it is the UK's EEZ to exploit under UN law.
The UK might capitulate on the principle yet and if so, so be it, but it seems unlikely at the moment. If the EU bans us from selling fish in to the EU then we can always leave them in the sea for a few years and harvest the long term greater bounty or try again when calmer heads return. Macron's problem is that all the EU countries benefit from a trade deal with the UK while only a small number benefit from over fishing British waters. If French intransigence blows the trade deal they probably won't be pleased but who knows its the EU and at least we don't have to get involved in those internal machinations anymore.
You're the one not looking at it with some distance. Try and remember that finding a deal is beneficial to both sides. Yes the EU will try and extract as many benefits as they can from the deal, and why wouldn't they? They're negotiating for their citizens and their industries and economies. If the EU are refusing to sign a deal though, then its because the proposed deal isn't good enough to warrant the sacrifices it will cost them. At that point it doesn't matter what the UK think is fair or want, if the EU doesn't gain enough to benefit then they won't sign up to a deal, its very simple.The UK has withdrawn many of its demands from its current negotiating position precisely to avoid that prid quo pro. The EU chief negotiator has said as much. The current EU position that the UK has to give access on the current basis to UK EEZ before any deal can go ahead is an attempt to hold on to the price tolled for UK entry post its exit. Most people would see that as unreasonable if they could bring themselves a little distance from the matter.
And it is Macron who is leading the fight, up to the point of no deal, to hold the EU position because the fury of French fishermen when they can only catch fish in EU waters which will be half of its current size because the UK provides 50% of the current EU EEZ will be like that of a woman scorned.