Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Balljy]

how do you explain the fact that you get no roaming crafted in many non EU countries?

The backstop forcing the companies to make your contract apply in EU countries has now gone and before that was done roaming was an issue in those countries so there's nothing stopping them removing that now. I know the government have put a £45 limit on excess roaming charges (mirroring the EU's out of contract charge) to stop excessive amounts being charged in the future,

Having said that, I agree that it's not as black and white as a re-introduction. Some of the operators offer non-EU countries and they tend to be the countries that either the operators themselves exist in or have deals with the same overseas operator globally.

Some of those deals are offered only on the higher value contracts though and there will be a time when those deals have to be renegotiated. We'll see what happens, but I can see a gradual move to only the higher contracts including free roaming so they can make some money out of it now it's not forced on them.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Why not? You can argue people may have changed their mind since then and you can argue about the quirks of the FPTP system which allow results like this to happen but we had an election since where one party promised very clearly to 'get Brexit done', even on a no deal basis if necessary, while the others offered, at the very least, to run a 2nd referendum. And those other parties got trounced.

'The people' voted for it in 2016 and again in 2019 and now they must live with the consequences.

Blaming the other side of the channel is a bit like blaming your gym when you used to have an all inclusive membership at a David Lloyds, decide to downgrade it to a gym only membership so you can use that extra money elsewhere and then act surprised when you aren't allowed to use the pool, the steam room or the tennis courts afterwards.

to be honest, I think we need to get over the blame game. It’s happened.

perhaps I wasn’t clear, I’m not blaming anyone, but the issues we have at the moment are due to the implementation being last minute - and that’s down to both sides of the negotiation table.

If we continue down this route of remainders and leavers, blaming those who voted to leave, saying that the need to ‘live with the consequences’ then Noone is ever going to move forward.

quite frankly we have bigger issues to deal with these days.

stop blaming other people, and get on with it. Start a campaign to rejoin. But stop harping on about the past.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

The backstop forcing the companies to make your contract apply in EU countries has now gone and before that was done roaming was an issue in those countries so there's nothing stopping them removing that now. I know the government have put a £45 limit on excess roaming charges (mirroring the EU's out of contract charge) to stop excessive amounts being charged in the future,

Having said that, I agree that it's not as black and white as a re-introduction. Some of the operators offer non-EU countries and they tend to be the countries that either the operators themselves exist in or have deals with the same overseas operator globally.

Some of those deals are offered only on the higher value contracts though and there will be a time when those deals have to be renegotiated. We'll see what happens, but I can see a gradual move to only the higher contracts including free roaming so they can make some money out of it now it's not forced on them.

it certainly used to be a big issue, and it was really punitive - I’m not sure when they were actually scrapped? But also technology has moved on significantly, I don’t know whether it will become a thing again. Clearly we all hope it doesn’t.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

how do you explain the fact that you get no roaming crafted in many non EU countries?

With which UK operators @ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg? In which countries?

 

[africanspur]

With which UK operators @ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg? In which countries?

I'm with 3 and I can use my sim card, with my normal monthly allowance, in over 70 countries worldwide, including in South America and East Asia.

Admittedly I'm not a business traveller though so not sure how much you can push your luck with calls and texts etc.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

With which UK operators @ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg? In which countries?

the US. With Three you have access to free roaming in lots of non EU countries. I don’t know which ones without looking. Last time I went to the US with Vodafone (end of 2019) it was free internet and calls.

 

[africanspur]

to be honest, I think we need to get over the blame game. It’s happened.

perhaps I wasn’t clear, I’m not blaming anyone, but the issues we have at the moment are due to the implementation being last minute - and that’s down to both sides of the negotiation table.

If we continue down this route of remainders and leavers, blaming those who voted to leave, saying that the need to ‘live with the consequences’ then Noone is ever going to move forward.

quite frankly we have bigger issues to deal with these days.

stop blaming other people, and get on with it. Start a campaign to rejoin. But stop harping on about the past.

Fair enough I would still disagree that the changes being last minute are due to 'both sides' but let's leave it there anyway.

I'm not quite sure what moving forward looks like but frankly, the last 10 years of British politics and the face its shown of its people has really bothered me. If I were a betting man, I'd already bet for another Tory win in 4 years as well, almost regardless of what happens in the next 4 years. So better men and women than me can try to wrest back power from the Tories or try to convince this population away from its ridiculous exceptionalism and towards a closer relationship with the EU. But frankly I don't have the stomach or will to do it.

These people are adults. Brexit will affect me far less than it affects most of them so its not really mine (or others') jobs to hold their hands through the voting process if they wish to vote in certain ways.

One small thing I do agree with Johnson on is that I can't see another referendum on joining happening for a long time, for reasons on both sides of the channel. So its a bit of a meh, suck it up, get on with my life, try to mitigate the effects on those around me as best as I can, hope that better men and women than me manage to forge a better and closer relationship with the EU over time while lending them my vote but with a new undercurrent of resentment towards the ruling party, the media and the people who voted to put us in this mess. I may well leave the country too. I know it isn't healthy and I'm sure it will pass with time but such is life.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

considering how left wing the forum is, it won’t be many...

However, in all seriousness, the referendum was 4.5 years ago. It’s not the people who voted for it you channel your frustration at, it’s those who implemented that direction, and the parting of ways. On both sides of the channel.

I don't think you understand that the UK left the EU Custom's Union which is what was voted for. Therefore the problems that are being faced now were known before the referendum. The UK voluntarily left the Customs Union and the problems are entirely and solely down to them. The Customs Union is still there ,thus between EU/EEA countries there are no such problems.

The trade deal has little to do with it.

People have no idea what they voted for.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Belarussia

One thing that puzzles is me why Brexiteers think they will suddenly penetrate markets they struggled to reach before.

The other point is that they also don't seem to understand that to whichever country they export to, the products they sell must comply with the regulations of the country they are exporting to. So whether the UK is in or out of the EU makes no difference in that respect.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

I don't think he's lying, I think he is genuinely extremely thick.

It's the impression I've had all along, Brexiters actually believe that they couldn't export outside the EU.

In Gerald's case there I think so. It's the people pulling the strings of Gerald and his ilk that will make money off the whole charade who are the liars here.

I would like to see more of these people coming forward now we're out to pull down the curtain but don't particularly expect the likes of the BBC to cover it.

 

[Massive Spanner]

stop blaming other people, and get on with it. Start a campaign to rejoin. But stop harping on about the past.

Yeah bloody GERRONWIVVIT!

 

[Paul the Wolf]

In Gerald's case there I think so. It's the people pulling the strings of Gerald and his ilk that will make money off the whole charade who are the liars here.

I would like to see more of these people coming forward now we're out to pull down the curtain but don't particularly expect the likes of the BBC to cover it.

I think all the lies will be exposed gradually by the people themselves - we're only just over week into it and with Covid actually masking some of the problems that would have been there had traffic /trade/tourism been at pre-Covid levels.
People will gradually realise, some quicker than others, that they've been completely hoodwinked.

People believed what they wanted to hear, as reality gradually hits them they will resent it, even the ardent believers.

 

[Snowjoe]

Same. I run an export transport company and the work is relentless, it’s caused absolute chaos for us and every one of our customers like we knew it would.

A lot of companies will lose huge business because of this.

I still can’t believe it was voted for and actually happened, it’s benefited the UK in no way and caused massive disruption to trade and business relations between the UK and European companies.

All for what? It’s not like we make billions more as a country as the tariffs are zero rated on the whole. Just so we can tell foreign fisherman what to do? Or change our laws when we want? I don’t remember there being any issues getting fish & chips or the judicial system previously.

It’s an absolute joke, waste of time and money.

oh Jesus I feel for you for sure! I’m in insurance so we are relatively unscathed but it has doubled our workflow and caused a 2.75% extra charge on processing all EEA premium so that’s great

what’s the most infuriating is the whole “project fear” bullshit, this wasn’t a surprise but so many people didn’t want to hear it

 

[DavelinaJolie]

I voted remain, I stand by my decision. Just to preface my question.

Obviously there are going to be issues in the shorter term, is it possible though that stuff will get ironed out and some of the problems will disappear?

 

[MikeUpNorth]

I voted remain, I stand by my decision. Just to preface my question.

Obviously there are going to be issues in the shorter term, is it possible though that stuff will get ironed out and some of the problems will disappear?

It will get 'ironed out' over time by businesses changing supply chains, relocating and systemic changes to the economy. If that counts as ironing out...

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I voted remain, I stand by my decision. Just to preface my question.

Obviously there are going to be issues in the shorter term, is it possible though that stuff will get ironed out and some of the problems will disappear?

Companies will get used to dealing with the extra bureaucracy, those who have experience of trading with companies outside the EU should have more knowledge of what to do.

Nevertheless the bureaucracy will always be there because the UK left the EU Custom's Union.

It will never be close to how easy things were before the UK left the EU.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I’m beginning to think this might not have been a good idea after all.

People with opinions like yours are exactly why this has been a terrible idea.

Can't you survive off the smell of false sovereignty in the morning?

 

[JPRouve]

I voted remain, I stand by my decision. Just to preface my question.

Obviously there are going to be issues in the shorter term, is it possible though that stuff will get ironed out and some of the problems will disappear?

What are the problems that you have in mind? Some problems can't be ironed out outside of a deep custom agreement.

 

[Maticmaker]

People believed what they wanted to hear, as reality gradually hits them they will resent it, even the ardent believers.

Isn't that what they call an 'Epiphany'? ... thought it was due to happen on 6th Jan?... Delays already through Brexit!

 

[RUCK4444]

oh Jesus I feel for you for sure! I’m in insurance so we are relatively unscathed but it has doubled our workflow and caused a 2.75% extra charge on processing all EEA premium so that’s great

what’s the most infuriating is the whole “project fear” bullshit, this wasn’t a surprise but so many people didn’t want to hear it

Yeah the 'deal' hasn't made it any easier to physically move goods back and forth between the UK and Europe. You still need exactly the same amount of paperwork and the customs entries / clearances as we would have under no-deal.

The 'deal' just means there is no vat/duty calculated, but the sheer amount of extra work is still required for customs. Absolute nightmare.

Dover - Calais is struggling and this is currently nowhere near the amount of trucks they will see in a few weeks time as the vast majority of businesses planned to avoid this first week for moving goods back and forth to Europe. In a week or so it will be carnage and hauliers on the continent that we rely upon are already looking to avoid travelling the UK, which means EVERYBODY will pay more for transport as we are seeing now with M&S struggling to manage the costs to move goods to their sites in France.

Basically any business that trades with the EU is considerably worse off because of Brexit. Which was painfully feckin obvious at the beginning.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Isn't that what they call an 'Epiphany'? ... thought it was due to happen on 6th Jan?... Delays already through Brexit!

It will be a long drawn out epiphany.

 

[Maticmaker]

It will be a long drawn out epiphany.

 

[RUCK4444]

I voted remain, I stand by my decision. Just to preface my question.

Obviously there are going to be issues in the shorter term, is it possible though that stuff will get ironed out and some of the problems will disappear?

Trade is physically MUCH more difficult from a logistics standpoint, and that won't change because there are standard requirements customs now have for us as a non-EU country.

It will settle into some form of normality but not without a lot of businesses closing and margins being squeezed more and more, people don't realise the sheer impact the cost of transportation has on a business/manufacturer. Not to mention businesses on the continent will find it much easier to purchase from other EU-based countries and avoid any customs formalities and the paperwork requirements that go along with it.

What do you think will happen to your local shop when it costs 30-40% more to bring goods into the UK? The prices will go up, smaller businesses will struggle compared to the 'big boys' who import in bulk for cheaper, it all has a direct knock on effect.
They will require customs brokers to handle the customs requirements or employ extra to handle the requirements, all extra costs with zero benefit.

The transport sector have warned about this from the start, Boris and co have ignored it and we will see the impact.

 

[Balljy]

oh Jesus I feel for you for sure! I’m in insurance so we are relatively unscathed but it has doubled our workflow and caused a 2.75% extra charge on processing all EEA premium so that’s great

what’s the most infuriating is the whole “project fear” bullshit, this wasn’t a surprise but so many people didn’t want to hear it

I work for a company which provides an IT system which manufacturers use. The amount of work for our development teams has been crazy, getting the documentation so that our customers can continue trading and changing the VAT rules in the system to make sure it applies the new rules correctly. It's all last minute as well with HMRC still providing guidance now.

Some of our customers are having nightmares getting their stock in on time so they can actually keep producing and a couple have had to limit production for this week.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...orry-drivers-calais-effects-brexit-eurotunnel

On the other side of the channel, the UK has delayed the imposition of Brexit checks for six months: the lorry parks are not ready, nor is business, as the Brexit deal was only sealed on Christmas Eve.

This is one of the most infuriating comments.

The referendum to leave the EU was in June 2016 - unless leaving the Customs Union was going to be reversed then they had four and a half years to be ready and a minimum of eleven months to be ready as it was certain the UK were leaving the Customs Union when the WA was signed. Christmas Eve and the trade deal has nothing at all to do with it.

 

[Jippy]

So John Lewis, Fortnum & Masons and Asos have all scrapped international deliveries, possibly only temporarily in the latter two's case, but either way, it's all indicative of overseas trade facing much higher hurdles to profitability.

 

[DavelinaJolie]

Trade is physically MUCH more difficult from a logistics standpoint, and that won't change because there are standard requirements customs now have for us as a non-EU country.

It will settle into some form of normality but not without a lot of businesses closing and margins being squeezed more and more, people don't realise the sheer impact the cost of transportation has on a business/manufacturer. Not to mention businesses on the continent will find it much easier to purchase from other EU-based countries and avoid any customs formalities and the paperwork requirements that go along with it.

What do you think will happen to your local shop when it costs 30-40% more to bring goods into the UK? The prices will go up, smaller businesses will struggle compared to the 'big boys' who import in bulk for cheaper, it all has a direct knock on effect.
They will require customs brokers to handle the customs requirements or employ extra to handle the requirements, all extra costs with zero benefit.

The transport sector have warned about this from the start, Boris and co have ignored it and we will see the impact.

Thanks for that. I'm not in any way knowledgeable about the customs process, I suspected it would result in haulage costs, but I suppose I was wondering about the paperwork and the delays, if those could be done more effectively over time to reduce some of the burden. Alas it would appear only minimal gains could be made in that area.

 

[RUCK4444]

Thanks for that. I'm not in any way knowledgeable about the customs process, I suspected it would result in haulage costs, but I suppose I was wondering about the paperwork and the delays, if those could be done more effectively over time to reduce some of the burden. Alas it would appear only minimal gains could be made in that area.

Yes I think with time people will know what is required and will be used to the paperwork and customs element however it still doesn't change the fact that the EU based businesses will find it easier to avoid these additional requirements by dealing with companies on the continent.

I can only see the negatives, nothing about Brexit improves our ability to trade in my opinion, we've just made it a hell of a lot harder for ourselves.

 

[Massive Spanner]

So John Lewis, Fortnum & Masons and Asos have all scrapped international deliveries, possibly only temporarily in the latter two's case, but either way, it's all indicative of overseas trade facing much higher hurdles to profitability.

From an Irish person's perspective, this sums up my biggest grievances pretty well

Spoiler

 

[MikeUpNorth]

From an Irish person's perspective, this sums up my biggest grievances pretty well

Spoiler

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...y-brexit-red-tape-as-m-and-s-warns-of-tariffs

 

[Massive Spanner]

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...y-brexit-red-tape-as-m-and-s-warns-of-tariffs

Well now I'm really mad.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Well now I'm really mad.

Contact the German manufacturer direct and cut out the middle man - no tariffs, no duties, no hassle.

 

[sullydnl]

 

[Maticmaker]

What do you think will happen to your local shop when it costs 30-40% more to bring goods into the UK?

If you look at the areas that voted heavily for Brexit most of the shops, especially on the high streets, were closing down and disappearing back then, although we were still in the EU; some of them were/are still, becoming like ghost towns.

It is one of my pet theories, of why few of the remainer warnings were heeded in these areas.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

The first part is funny - weeks years/forever ?
Second part of that Tweet is hilarious.
"But he said that if the government does everything it can, working with businesses, “then we can make sure that we do get to a new normal where trade flows more freely than ever before.”

Is someone going to ask him how the Customs checks and bureaucracy will stop. Doubt it.
Compulsive liar syndrome.

 

[africanspur]

If you look at the areas that voted heavily for Brexit most of the shops, especially on the high streets, were closing down and disappearing back then, although we were still in the EU; some of them were/are still, becoming like ghost towns.

It is one of my pet theories, of why few of the remainer warnings were heeded in these areas.

This is true to some extent. Many of these people thought I might as well give Westminster a bloody nose, not like life can get any worse. Quite a sheltered view unfortunately.

Just about one of the very few benefits I can see of Brexit is that (hopefully) the EU can no longer act as the bogeyman, the pancea for all our ills in this country. The people can't blame it, the media can't blame it and the Tories/UKIP can't blame it. They're going to actually have to answer for what they do.

Though I'm probably being naive and the EU bogeyman will continue regardless.

@ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg apologies for a slightly snappy reply this morning. Things at work not helping as you can imagine. I actually fundamentally agree with what you said wrt that for now we just have to make the best of the situation and try to shape the ongoing future relationship with the EU in a positive way.

But I stand by what I said in terms of the bitterness I personally will carry for what's happened. It will just have to be something I work on I guess.

 

[Fully Fledged]

considering how left wing the forum is, it won’t be many...

However, in all seriousness, the referendum was 4.5 years ago. It’s not the people who voted for it you channel your frustration at, it’s those who implemented that direction, and the parting of ways. On both sides of the channel.

I couldn't disagree more. We voted to leave the EU(not me personally) the EU didn't vote to leave us. They would have let us leave in name only if we had been willing to do so.
We wanted this. We pushed for this to be a hard line exit. Now that we see how fecked up it is we can't lay any of the blame on the EU who never wanted us to leave and was willing to do a soft Brexit right up until the final agreement for the mess we have made.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

@africanspur no problem. I appreciate there a lot of emotions and stress involves for a lot of people and a lot of businesses at the moment.

there was always going be be friction in terms of ability to trade, no matter What the agreement and when it happened. Clearly this and Covid at the same time doesn’t help. Hopefully it’s teething issues, that will be largely resolved in the next few months.

businesses have had close to zero time to implement any changes to processes, and that’s a fault of the timeframes and negotiation teams. Unfortunately these types of negotiations always seem to be at the last minute.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

@africanspur no problem. I appreciate there a lot of emotions and stress involves for a lot of people and a lot of businesses at the moment.

there was always going be be friction in terms of ability to trade, no matter What the agreement and when it happened. Clearly this and Covid at the same time doesn’t help. Hopefully it’s teething issues, that will be largely resolved in the next few months.

businesses have had close to zero time to implement any changes to processes, and that’s a fault of the timeframes and negotiation teams. Unfortunately these types of negotiations always seem to be at the last minute.

You still have not understood a thing.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...or-to-investigate-leaveeus-irish-registration