[zaafi]

You don't remember the game well then, go to post match discussion in his thread. It was full of praise, which brings back to other point. People remember him for his goals and assists and forget all the good things he does, while highlighting the bad stuff all the time.

One more goal post movement, you talked about finals and playing not so strong opponents.

People praise Bruno after having awful performances because he managed an assist in the 85th minute, it really doesn't say anything. Only lately people have come around to realise Bruno may not be all that to our general play.

You're the one that keeps talking about finals only. I'm talking about big games. Finals are big games as well, which is why they're mentioned, but semi final against Bayern München is arguably a bigger game than the final when you know you'll face Inter.

So you managed to think of two big games that Bruno have performed well in, and he's been here since 2020. If that doesn't tell you enough about Bruno, then nothing will.

 

[roonster09]

People praise Bruno after having awful performances because he managed an assist in the 85th minute, it really doesn't say anything. Only lately people have come around to realise Bruno may not be all that to our general play.

You're the one that keeps talking about finals only. I'm talking about big games. Finals are big games as well, which is why they're mentioned, but semi final against Bayern München is arguably a bigger game than the final when you know you'll face Inter.

So you managed to think of two big games that Bruno have performed well in, and he's been here since 2020. If that doesn't tell you enough about Bruno, then nothing will.

Semi finals was not against Bayern, It was against Madrid and Haaland didn't score any goal or assisted a single goal.

No, I can easily name more games but there is no point which is clearly proven by this same post. "he didn't play well, bla bla bla, just moments bla bla bla".

 

[zaafi]

He is at 97 percentile for progressive passes, even leaving stats aside, he is the one who usually releases Rashford and other wingers by playing quick passes from central position.

Unless we have a player who can progress the ball from deeper areas, Bruno is our best bet in central position. Now that we have signed Amrabat, things might change a bit.

Eriksen progresses the ball forward more than Bruno, by the way.

 

[zaafi]

Semi finals was not against Bayern, It was against Madrid and Haaland didn't score any goal or assisted a single goal.

No, I can easily name more games but there is no point which is clearly proven by this same post. "he didn't play well, bla bla bla, just moments bla bla bla".

He scored against Bayern and he was top scorer of CL. They thrashed Real Madrid 4-0, so what does it matter? He is a constant threat with his movement and opens up space for his team mates.

And no, you can't easily name more big games he's performed in, because if you did you would, and wouldn't mention Roma over two years ago.

 

[JPRouve]

He is at 97 percentile for progressive passes, even leaving stats aside, he is the one who usually releases Rashford and other wingers by playing quick passes from central position.

Unless we have a player who can progress the ball from deeper areas, Bruno is our best bet in central position. Now that we have signed Amrabat, things might change a bit.

Among AMs he is also in the 41st percentile in pass completions, 16th percentiles in progressive carries, 15th percentiles in take ons, 59th percentile in touches in the box and most importantly 33rd percentile in progressive passes receptions. The latter point is important because it is one of the biggest reason behind his disappearance against good teams, he doesn't know how to exploit pockets of space and he is not good at receiving the ball in traffic.

I think that Bruno is a good player but he is a niche player and he isn't someone that can or will lead your team to success as the main central attacking midfielder because he is very good at only thing progressive passes in the final third. His skillset is way too limited and unless you don't really care about the team as a whole, you will have to create an atypical role for him.

 

[roonster09]

He scored against Bayern and he was top scorer of CL. They thrashed Real Madrid 4-0, so what does it matter? He is a constant threat with his movement and opens up space for his team mates.

And no, you can't easily name more big games he's performed in, because if you did you would, and wouldn't mention Roma over two years ago.

Bayern was not Semi finals, so they trashed Madrid 4-0 without Haaland showing up, yeah thanks for proving the point and understanding what team means.

I can but I'm not going to waste any time on that because you will just move the goal posts and I have no interest for all that nonsense again and again.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Read it from the first if you want to understand.

People arguing about trophies as if trophies are won by individual players

Thats what you said originally? A silly statement to me. Best players make a difference, Messi was the biggest reason Argentina won the world cup.

 

[roonster09]

Among AMs he is also in the 41st percentile in pass completions, 16th percentiles in progressive carries, 15th percentiles in take ons, 59th percentile in touches in the box and most importantly 33rd percentile in progressive passes receptions. The latter point is important because it is one of the biggest reason behind his disappearance against good teams, he doesn't know how to exploit pockets of space and he is not good at receiving the ball in traffic.

I think that Bruno is a good player but he is a niche player and he isn't someone that can or will lead your team to success as the main central attacking midfielder because he is very good at only thing progressive passes in the final third. His skillset is way too limited and unless you don't really care about the team as a whole, you will have to create an atypical role for him.

You can read the progressive passes received as Bruno's incapability to find the pocket of space or our players incapability to play progressive passes to central areas. Our go-to tactic is moving the ball wide .

He is poor at taking on players, there is no argument on that from my side. One of the most irritating thing for me in general when it comes to quality in the team, lack of ball carriers. Bruno, Casemiro, Eriksen all are poor at it. Mount looks best at that when it comes to central position.

Also the skillset part you are talking about, I see the same point repeated in most threads. Not that I disagree but it's interesting that its repeated everywhere.

 

[JPRouve]

You can read the progressive passes received as Bruno's incapability to find the pocket of space or our players incapability to play progressive passes to central areas. Our go-to tactic is moving the ball wide .

He is poor at taking on players, there is no argument on that from my side. One of the most irritating thing for me in general when it comes to quality in the team, lack of ball carriers. Bruno, Casemiro, Eriksen all are poor at it. Mount looks best at that when it comes to central position.

I don't think I can because he registered the least receptions among his linemates even though he has the most freedom when it comes to movements. I don't really see how I can blame his teammates for his 33rd percentile while Antony was in the 76 percentile. I also can't use that as an argument when the eye test makes it fairly obvious.

 

[roonster09]

I don't think I can because he registered the least receptions among his linemates even though he has the most freedom when it comes to movements. I don't really see how I can blame his teammates for his 33rd percentile while Antony was in the 76 percentile. I also can't use that as an argument when the eye test makes it fairly obvious.

Antony part is the one I mentioned, our go-to tactic is playing the ball wide. Would have been surprised if Antony and Rashford weren't at very high level considering they are the attacking outlets for the quick passes and the players who gets into good positions/1v1 situation because of fast breaks.

Edit: I checked Odegaard and KdB's numbers, they are lower than Bruno's. Only reason their percentile is better is because for some reason fbref consider them as midfielders only.

 

[zaafi]

Bayern was not Semi finals, so they trashed Madrid 4-0 without Haaland showing up, yeah thanks for proving the point and understanding what team means.

I can but I'm not going to waste any time on that because you will just move the goal posts and I have no interest for all that nonsense again and again.

Again, facing Bayern Munchen is a big game, even if it's not a semi final. And every time a striker doesn't score goals, it means he didn't show up? Following that logic, you admit to Bruno not showing up nearly every game.

No, you can't. One particular noticeable thing with you is that everytime you see something you disagree with (and not just me), it's nonsense and wrong. You've been watching Bruno consistently for three years watching him be appalling in nearly every big game, yet you somehow think he is the answer going forward to be a successful team. I mean.. what?

 

[roonster09]

Again, facing Bayern Munchen is a big game, even if it's not a semi final. And every time a striker doesn't score goals, it means he didn't show up? Following that logic, you admit to Bruno not showing up nearly every game.

No, you can't. One particular noticeable thing with you is that everytime you see something you disagree with (and not just me), it's nonsense and wrong. You've been watching Bruno consistently for three years watching him be appalling in nearly every big game, yet you somehow think he is the answer going forward to be a successful team. I mean.. what?

And you keep proving the point, again not my mistake. You asked me to name one game, I named 2. You disagreed with Arsenal game and then came up with more nonsense like "only 2 games"

Maybe you should read the posts you post (it's hard I know) and then understand the replies.

You are just all over the place, constant moving goal posts and in general just poor debating skills as you have 0 recollection of what you post.

 

[NZT-One]

@zaafi
@roonster09

You're close to coming full circle now. You should restart by discussing what a big game is and what is needed to be considered good. Maybe we will find out that one of you thinks, that creation is the highest measure while the other thinks more is needed. Who knows, lets go down this road.

 

[zaafi]

And you keep proving the point, again not my mistake. You asked me to name one game, I named 2. You disagreed with Arsenal game and then came up with more nonsense like "only 2 games"

Maybe you should read the posts you post (it's hard I know) and then understand the replies.

You are just all over the place, constant moving goal posts and in general just poor debating skills as you have 0 recollection of what you post.

Half of the content in your posts are insults and comments like "I know it's a hard concept for you to grasp, but.." "Go take some fresh air", "Read the posts (it's hard, I know).

How you became a scout on this forum is actually absurd. You're one to talk with poor debating skills

I've explained in many posts why I don't think Bruno is good enough, and then you have the likes of yourself who respond with Statman Dave tweets of Bruno's stats during a game against Nottingham.

 

[JPRouve]

Antony part is the one I mentioned, our go-to tactic is playing the ball wide. Would have been surprised if Antony and Rashford weren't at very high level considering they are the attacking outlets for the quick passes and the players who gets into good positions/1v1 situation because of fast breaks.

Rashford and Antony are supposed to get more but your AM isn't supposed to be in the 33rd percentile. You are basically putting all blames on his teammates even when his own production is completely out of the norm for the roles he plays. And it's a trend since his Sporting days, while overall the stats in terms of volume were better, you can clearly see the same weaknesses in his game, the same applies to his stats during the World Cup, 28th percentile in terms of progressive passes receptions. It would be an unfortunate coincidence that he invariably ends up with teammates that are incapable of finding him with progressive passes.

 

[roonster09]

Rashford and Antony are supposed to get more but your AM isn't supposed to be in the 33rd percentile. You are basically putting all blames on his teammates even when his own production is completely out of the norm for the role he plays. And it's a trend since his Sporting days, while overall the stats in terms of volume were better, you can clearly see the same weaknesses in his game, the same applies to his stats during the World Cup, 28th percentile in terms of progressive passes receptions. It would be an unfortunate coincidence that he invariably ends up with teammates that are incapable of finding him with progressive passes.

Edit: I checked Odegaard and KdB's numbers, they are lower than Bruno's. Only reason their percentile is better is because for some reason fbref consider them as midfielders only.

Looks like Bruno numbers are not bad at all when it comes to receiving progressive passes.

 

[roonster09]

Half of the content in your posts are insults and comments like "I know it's a hard concept for you to grasp, but.." "Go take some fresh air", "Read the posts (it's hard, I know).

How you became a scout on this forum is actually absurd. You're one to talk with poor debating skills

I've explained in many posts why I don't think Bruno is good enough, and then you have the likes of yourself who respond with Statman Dave tweets of Bruno's stats during a game against Nottingham.

One more random post

 

[zaafi]

One more random post

You're so fecking weird

 

[roonster09]

You're so fecking weird

It's ironic you say this when you ignore all the posts and just comes up with some random posts again and again.

You are more likely a troll and for your sake i hope you are

 

[zaafi]

It's ironic you say this when you ignore all the posts and just comes up with some random posts again and again.

You are more likely a troll and for your sake i hope you are

What did I ignore? You're the one who never respond to actual posts (mine and JPRouve among some) and start getting personal because I disagree with you.

Things are never Bruno's fault, it's the team or the manager. Every time. You're so blind it's not even funny.

 

[JPRouve]

Looks like Bruno numbers are not bad at all when it comes to receiving progressive passes.

That's true, as I said earlier you could claim that De Bruyne and Bruno are similar players but as I also said earlier in that case you end up having to accept that De Bruyne and Odegaard are more complete and reliable versions, they provide more progressive carries and more progressive passes per 90 and have been more consistent against top oppositions likely because they can rely on a larger bag of skills. You will also have to accept that he isn't in 97 percentile when it comes to progressive passes but 84 percentile.

Now while I like Odegaard I wouldn't gush on him and claim that he is the best thing since sliced bread. Arsenal system does hide his weaknesses and elevate his strength which is the point that I tried to make about Bruno and is seemingly a point of contention.

 

[roonster09]

What did I ignore? You're the one who never respond to actual posts and start getting personal because I disagree with you.

Things are never Bruno's fault, it's the team or the manager. Every time. You're so blind it's not even funny.

Nice try, i responded to every reply I got and with reasoning, as usual ignorance, goal posts moving and all that.

More lies, more random posts.

 

[roonster09]

That's true, as I said earlier you could claim that De Bruyne and Bruno are similar players but as I also said earlier in that case you end up having to accept that De Bruyne and Odegaard are more complete and reliable versions, they provide more progressive carries and more progressive passes per 90 and have been more consistent against top oppositions likely because they can rely on a larger bag of skills. You will also have to accept that he isn't in 97 percentile when it comes to progressive passes but 84 percentile.

Now while I like Odegaard I wouldn't gush on him and claim that he is the best thing since sliced bread. Arsenal system does hide his weaknesses and elevate his strength which is the point that I tried to make about Bruno and is seemingly a point of contention.

Fair enough, that's a fair take tbh.

 

[zaafi]

Nive try, i responded to every reply I got and with reasoning, as usual ignorance, goal posts moving and all that.

More lies, more random posts.

You don't reason for shit, come on I asked you why you thought Bruno, as a midfielder, does not perform in big games and your response was basically "but Arsenal and Roma almost 3 years ago". Very good debating skills.

 

[roonster09]

You don't reason for shit, come on I asked you why you thought Bruno, as a midfielder, does not perform in big games and your response was basically "but Arsenal and Roma almost 3 years ago". Very good debating skills.

One more lie, ffs you asked me to name even single big game where he played well.

Like I said from random posts to liar

 

[zaafi]

One more lie, ffs you asked me to name even single big game where he played well.

Like I said from random posts to liar

It's a lot of back and forth here, so I've got a simple question for you. Why do you think Bruno, as a midfielder, has never performed well in a big game?

This is just embarrassing from you. The quote is literally right there, so how is that a lie? fecking hell dude

 

[roonster09]

This is just embarrassing from you. The quote is literally right there, so how is that a lie? fecking hell dude

Conveniently deleting part of your post

Also I replied to that post saying

No, I'm saying your logic is flawed and gave a simple example of player you always use to play down other players.

Your statement itself is wrong, that Bruno never performed well in big game. Played consistently well in big games? No. Didn't have a single good performance in big game like you mentioned? Not even close.

if you had ability to read, you wouldn't have posted half of the shit you did

 

[zaafi]

Conveniently deleting part of your post

Also I replied to that post saying



if you had ability to read, you wouldn't have posted half of the shit you did

What is the relevance of the other part in that post? Are you seriously that dense? You claimed I never asked that question and called me a liar, so I quoted the part of the post where it shows I asked that exact question. At this point, you're just saying things that don't make sense.

You said you replied with reasoning and this shows you don't. I asked you why you think Bruno doesn't perform in big games, not how consistently well he plays. Learn to read a post before replying.

 

[JPRouve]

Fair enough, that's a fair take tbh.

Thanks but I really need to make that point since you brought up De Bruyne. De Bruyne is a niche player, most teams including top teams couldn't use him the way Guardiola does, he is elite at all aspects of moving the ball but he is a risk taker. I think I remember a conversation that we had a few months ago about individual possession stats being team and role driven, De Bruyne is an example of that, he is the risk taker in City's possession schemes and it only works because he is really good at moving the ball regardless of what the opposition tries to deny AND the rest of the team is extremely good when it comes to possession and ball recycling, in order to nullify him you generally have to take everything away at once which is unlikely. For Bruno you just have to make him carry the ball and he is largely out of the game.

If Bruno was a bit more careful with the ball, he could emulate Kroos in a 433 with a pivot which is something that I really want to see but after several years I don't think that he is wired like that. Kroos can't really carry the ball with any sort of consistency and he isn't really good at finding space in the final third even though he played as an AM earlier in his career. So to me there are too options, you either use him a bit like De Bruyne which means that he is largely operating in widish areas and provides lots of crosses or you use him deeper in a more traditional 433 but as a 10 he is an issue for this team because his skillset doesn't match with the role.

And I could make a similar point about Rashford, you will have issues if your left winger, can't consistently beat his man through carries and can't consistently pass the ball with accuracy. Rashford is essentially a second striker playing very wide which is a fairly difficult role to implement in a normal 4231.

 

[roonster09]

What is the relevance of the other part in that post? Are you seriously that dense? You claimed I never asked that question and called me a liar, so I quoted the part of the post where it shows I asked that exact question. At this point, you're just saying things that don't make sense.

You said you replied with reasoning and this shows you don't. I asked you why you think Bruno doesn't perform in big games, not how consistently well he plays. Learn to read a post before replying.

You don't reason for shit, come on I asked you why you thought Bruno, as a midfielder, does not perform in big games and your response was basically "but Arsenal and Roma almost 3 years ago". Very good debating skills.

FFS you are as usual all over the place and mixing up things.

When I said "Arsenal and Roma" you didn't ask me why he doesn't perform in big games. You question was name at least one big game and I mentioned Arsenal and Roma, as usual you moved goal posts with usual "only 2" and more irrelevant posts. Now you are either confused or just lying by saying "Arsenal and Roma" was the response to your question that why he doesn't perform in big games.

Before that you asked a question which was just wrong. You said he never performed well in big game, I said that's wrong. He isn't consistently good in big games but he had good games.

This is how it went in the order.

It's a lot of back and forth here, so I've got a simple question for you. Why do you think Bruno, as a midfielder, has never performed well in a big game?

No, I'm saying your logic is flawed and gave a simple example of player you always use to play down other players.

Your statement itself is wrong, that Bruno never performed well in big game. Played consistently well in big games? No. Didn't have a single good performance in big game like you mentioned? Not even close.

Tell me one big game he has played well in. And don't say Tottenham.

Arsenal last season.

I remember you mentioning latter stages of CL and Europa as big games IIRC, his game vs Roma.

They played against Sevilla, Inter and ManUtd.

After few more posts you came up with this gem.

So you managed to think of two big games that Bruno have performed well in, and he's been here since 2020. If that doesn't tell you enough about Bruno, then nothing will.

That's why I said you have no clue on what you post and end up posting randomly and all over the place.

 

[roonster09]

Thanks but I really need to make that point since you brought up De Bruyne. De Bruyne is a niche player, most teams including top teams couldn't use him the way Guardiola does, he is elite at all aspects of moving the ball but he is a risk taker. I think I remember a conversation that we had a few months ago about individual possession stats being team and role driven, De Bruyne is an example of that, he is the risk taker in City's possession schemes and it only works because he is really good at moving the ball regardless of what the opposition tries to deny AND the rest of the team is extremely good when it comes to possession and ball recycling, in order to nullify him you generally have to take everything away at once which is unlikely. For Bruno you just have to make him carry the ball and he is largely out of the game.

If Bruno was a bit more careful with the ball, he could emulate Kroos in a 433 with a pivot which is something that I really want to see but after several years I don't think that he is wired like that. Kroos can't really carry the ball with any sort of consistency and he isn't really good at finding space in the final third even though he played as an AM earlier in his career. So to me there are too options, you either use him a bit like De Bruyne which means that he is largely operating in widish areas and provides lots of crosses or you use him deeper in a more traditional 433 but as a 10 he is an issue for this team because his skillset doesn't match with the role.

And I could make a similar point about Rashford, you will have issues if your left winger, can't consistently beat his man through carries and can't consistently pass the ball with accuracy. Rashford is essentially a second striker playing very wide which is a fairly difficult role to implement in a normal 4231.

Yeah, biggest difference between KdB and Bruno is their dribbling ability, KdB is a powerful runner, it's really hard to stop him. Also he has more moments of magic, something we don't see from Bruno now a days, his shooting from distance has become average whereas KdB is always a threat if he gets space.

For me Bruno should be used as attacking midfielder, for me he has the best off the ball movement in our squad. If we want to become more controlled team then I think moving him bit wide should be good idea but I always prefer players with pace in the wide areas. Bruno as a deeper player isn't bad but for me his best asset is his instincts in final third and off the ball movement, one of the reason why he ghosts a lot in the box and ends up with chances.

Problem with him playing deeper role is his physicality, especially in transition. He doesn't offer much resistance and also like you said after years of playing like this, it would very difficult for him to change playing style to be so efficient. I mean he can improve for sure but as a deep player we should expect players to be super efficient, with a mindset that losing possession is a crime type.

To put it short, for me Bruno should be attacking mid or like you said wide right AM. If not he can be on the bench assuming we will have better CMs signed or players like Mainoo step up and be integral part of the team.

 

[Teja]

I don't think I can because he registered the least receptions among his linemates even though he has the most freedom when it comes to movements. I don't really see how I can blame his teammates for his 33rd percentile while Antony was in the 76 percentile. I also can't use that as an argument when the eye test makes it fairly obvious.

Much much easier to find the wide player than someone in the middle.

 

[Cassidy]

What?

Check his goal scoring record for the past 7 years. Its better than some stikers.

 

[zaafi]

Check his goal scoring record for the past 7 years. Its better than some stikers.

It is okay if you exclude his penalties. Over the last 7 years, 26 of his league goals are penalties. Midfielders don't often take penalties, which explains why he has scored more goals than some strikers. On another note, though: I don't know why, but he has become a worse goal threat than he used to be. He scored some absolute screamers when he joined.

 

[Godfather]

Opposite of a big game player. Bit of a worry considering he's our captain. Seems to go completely hysterical everytime we face one of the big teams

 

[JuriM]

It is okay if you exclude his penalties. Over the last 7 years, 26 of his league goals are penalties. Midfielders don't often take penalties, which explains why he has scored more goals than some strikers. On another note, though: I don't know why, but he has become a worse goal threat than he used to be. He scored some absolute screamers when he joined.

What kind of made up Copium is that "midfielders don't take penalties" to make his goal contribution less significant. Team's best penalty taker should take pens, not dependant of their playing position.

 

[zaafi]

What kind of made up Copium is that "midfielders don't take penalties" to make his goal contribution less significant. Team's best penalty taker should take pens, not dependant of their playing position.

I just don't think penalties should be considered when judging a midfielder's (or a forward) general ability to score goals. If you're going to do that, you may as well call James Milner a goal scoring midfielder.

 

[Cassidy]

It is okay if you exclude his penalties. Over the last 7 years, 26 of his league goals are penalties. Midfielders don't often take penalties, which explains why he has scored more goals than some strikers. On another note, though: I don't know why, but he has become a worse goal threat than he used to be. He scored some absolute screamers when he joined.

Minus penalties his goal record is still very impressive for a midfielder.

Agree his scoring less than before, however I think that is coming with adapting his role and trying to be more disciplined in midfield and focus on creating.

I think with the new additions in midfield and also a proper striker Bruno will get more space and you’ll probably see more goals from him

 

[JPRouve]

Minus penalties his goal record is still very impressive for a midfielder.

Agree his scoring less than before, however I think that is coming with adapting his role and trying to be more disciplined in midfield and focus on creating.

I think with the new additions in midfield and also a proper striker Bruno will get more space and you’ll probably see more goals from him

For an attacking midfielder is it that impressive to score 10 goals or less in the PL?

 

[Cassidy]

For an attacking midfielder is it that impressive to score 10 goals or less in the PL?

I think averaging double figures a season in all competitions is impressive.

In comparison to other attacking mids, and I am not including wide forwards.