Bundesliga 19/20

Bebestation

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That's why I said the bundesliga has no idea what fullbacks is and players press like battery ridden bunny rabbits.

Just because players find space there doesn't mean space is found as easily in other leagues - not a chance.

Don't get defensive now.
 

Rozay

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This might sound like an odd question but is that good quality or bad quality? I have no idea.

Seems a commitment to entertainment I can get behind though.
Well you would have to say it’s more bad than good. Football isn’t solely played in Germany, it isn’t like that anywhere else. If of course, the German teams were simply better than everyone else, then perhaps it would be fair to say it’s simply down to the quality. But they aren’t, so I’m inclined to say that teams set up naively when it comes to defending. Most teams are full of young players and they don’t set up with much sense.
 

do.ob

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Can't win/challenge for a title if you concede 3 goals a game. It's easy to point at the defenders now and of course they also deserve blame (sometimes a lot!) - but while I think goal 1 and 4 were a bit, random goal 2 and 3 have in common that one of Leverkusen's CMs can receive the ball between the lines and with enough space/time to turn and pick a pass and send one of the attackers through behind the backline. Bremen's third was a similar goal. I think Favre's unwillingness to fully commit to an intensive (gegen)pressing scheme is a big part in these persistent problems.
 

Rozay

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Can't win/challenge for a title if you concede 3 goals a game. It's easy to point at the defenders now and of course they also deserve blame (sometimes a lot!) - but while I think goal 1 and 4 were a bit, random goal 2 and 3 have in common that one of Leverkusen's CMs can receive the ball between the lines and with enough space/time to turn and pick a pass and send one of the attackers through behind the backline. Bremen's third was a similar goal. I think Favre's unwillingness to fully commit to an intensive (gegen)pressing scheme is a big part in these persistent problems.
That and lining up Mats Hummels 50 yards away from his own goal, which is asking for trouble.
 

giorno

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Defensive shape seems to be less involved with some teams ,it seems.
Like, they have a solid idea of how to set-up without the ball but their main tactical focus is always with it (ball).

Its entertaining for while but then it has the danger of appearing noncompetitive.
Not entirely, the main defensive set-up seems to be the pressing, and they do it well. They're just hopeless when it comes to 1vs1 defending(,both on the ball and off of it) and tracking back. Dortmund at least weren't even bad in terms of positional defending - just too many individual mistakes
 

do.ob

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That and lining up Mats Hummels 50 yards away from his own goal, which is asking for trouble.
Hummels' lack of pace is well known, but if you allow the opposition to send "free" through ball behind your high line no CB will really look good.
 

hasanejaz88

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Can't win/challenge for a title if you concede 3 goals a game. It's easy to point at the defenders now and of course they also deserve blame (sometimes a lot!) - but while I think goal 1 and 4 were a bit, random goal 2 and 3 have in common that one of Leverkusen's CMs can receive the ball between the lines and with enough space/time to turn and pick a pass and send one of the attackers through behind the backline. Bremen's third was a similar goal. I think Favre's unwillingness to fully commit to an intensive (gegen)pressing scheme is a big part in these persistent problems.
I agree with this, it seems the opposition midfield have too much space to go forward and between the lines and run at the defence. For the first goal, Havertz did really well to evade the pressure from Sancho and Witsel and then play a pass to Amiri, who had a lot of open space to drive at the defence (as Can was in no mans land defensively and wasn't marking anyone). Ofcourse Akanji should've done a better job at marking Volland as well but you also have to ask why Amiri had so much space to run at the Dortmund defense. For the 3rd goal again Havertz was able to find space in the final third, with no one near him, and be able to play a pass to Volland.

I think there is a gap between the midfield and defence that is being caught out by the opposition too much. There seems to be too much of a gap between the press made by the midfield and the 3 man defence staying back. And when you have your wing backs so far forward it can be hell for the 3 man defence to try and mark so much space with players running at them. The solution would be that you have your defense also step up far forward to try and close down the space, but then with your wing backs acting like wingers, there will be acres to space out wide for the opposition to play a long pass.

The 3-4-3 is surely creating a lot of offensive opportunities given to the sheer number of men forward they have but then again the space left behind is too much for them to contain.
 

FootballHQ

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Surely Dortmund fans must be getting frustrated?

World class attack and attacking midfield constantly let down by mediocre organisation and concentration, they let in so many soft goals. It will be the same in CL.

Can't even say they just ignore the defensive midfield area as Witsel and Can should be an o.k combination.
 

NoLogo

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Hummels' lack of pace is well known, but if you allow the opposition to send "free" through ball behind your high line no CB will really look good.
I think this is a major problem right now your pressing isn't working properly. Another thing is that Dortmund seems to lose the ball an awful lot in bad situations when you just started your offensive transition which is the worst time to lose the ball and it makes your defenders probably look worse than they are is often the cause for the complete defensive chaos.
 

giorno

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I think this is a major problem right now your pressing isn't working properly.
It is. The problem is the very few times it's beaten, they're hopeless at the back
 

NoLogo

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It is. The problem is the very few times it's beaten, they're hopeless at the back
The turnovers are actually a much bigger problem imo. Dortmund lose the ball too often in bad situations but of course it's not just Dortmund that seems to be the trend for almost any Bundesliga team, Leverkusen had their fair share of them as well yesterday.

Granted it doesn't help when on top of that Akanji, Hummels and Zagadou all seem to be prone in lapses of concentration and making a lot of unforced errors.
 

do.ob

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I think this is a major problem right now your pressing isn't working properly. Another thing is that Dortmund seems to lose the ball an awful lot in bad situations when you just started your offensive transition which is the worst time to lose the ball and it makes your defenders probably look worse than they are is often the cause for the complete defensive chaos.
Against Leverkusen turnovers were a problem for sure, but in other games not so much imho.


It is. The problem is the very few times it's beaten, they're hopeless at the back
Two of Leverkusen's goals were textbook examples in what happens if you have no cohesive pressing.

this one in particular:


Free pass for Tah, like a three meter safety radius for Havertz to receive, turn and pick the pass. Hummels tries to step out of the backline into the gaping midfield hole, just ends up conceding even more space though, because the gap is just too big. Can almost repairs it with an insanely good tackle, but with some luck and ball watching by Akanji Bailey gets his free goal. Hummels made the wrong call, Akanji is sleeping on the job, but Havertz freedom between the lines is a structural problem that just can't be allowed to happen. Once opposition is allowed to attack your backline with pace mistakes will happen.
 

Andersons Dietician

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I don’t recall the defending being as bad as it has been recently in the Bundesliga. Watched pretty much all of Dortmunds games recently and I know Haaland has been scoring for fun but given the space provided to just play around teams I would wager even Lingard would probably fill his boots.

Its great entertainment, but it does make you wonder if a lot of these people we are drooling over are as really good as the League is currently making them seem.
 

giorno

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The turnovers are actually a much bigger problem imo. Dortmund lose the ball too often in bad situations
That falls on the attacking phase though. Every team ever is defensively weak when they lose the ball in bad situations
Two of Leverkusen's goals were textbook examples in what happens if you have no cohesive pressing.

this one in particular:
They're not pressing in that situation, they're in positional defence and the midfielders fall asleep plus Hummels makes a big mistake
 

do.ob

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They're not pressing in that situation, they're in positional defence and the midfielders fall asleep plus Hummels makes a big mistake
I mean they are positioned like they want (more like need) to press. But they behave like they have a compact formation and can get away with passivity. It just makes no sense.
 

giorno

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I mean they are positioned like they want (more like need) to press. But they behave like they have a compact formation and can get away with passivity. It just makes no sense.
Nah, they're positioned normally, but the left-sided midfielder doesn't track Havertz, Zagadou doesn't close him out and Hummels sees it and tries to come out himself( :houllier: ) only he's obviously late so the only result is that he's out of position and leaves a giant hole for Volland to run into after an easy pass

It might be as you say that they don't know whether they should press or keep the positions, but if so, that's a mental mistake(also there's zero chance to press in that situation)
 

GhastlyHun

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Davies just casually passing the ball into the box for himself and actually getting it
 

Synco

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Davies again. Only the final ball is (narrowly) missing so far.
 

FrankDrebin

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I know he's not playing but I think Poulsen could be a interesting option for us in the summer for a forward role.