Imagine Dortmund stop selling their best players especially Lewandowski, Gotze and Hummels to Bayern, keep the team steady and build from there. Do I need further explanation? I think it’s enough.
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I posted it earlier but I'm pretty sure Gotze had his release clause matched and that Lewandowski was signed on a bosman.
Man, you quoted me, and wondered why one would defend rival clubs in a forgein club's forum, not the other way round, so I told you what I am doing here.Why would I care about your reason to join the forum
Look, you are not the only one here a fans of bundesliga club and you weren’t the one I replied so I don’t know what your argument was, I was replying the Bayern fans called herrleinad who doesn’t understand what rival means. They don’t have rival apart from local derby match, they don’t dislike you lot, they love you because you are feeding them.
And no, they certainly don't like "us" and nobody likes Bayern fans. You're a fool if you believe that the Germans posting in this forum are even somehwat representative of the majority of supporters. Trust me: They're not.
The feeding part is dumb anyway. I can't even recall the last player Bayern directly signed from Dortmund, Leipzig or Leverkusen. the last one was probably Lewandowski on a free. None of your arguments is valid.
Well, I need further explanation. Dortmund hadn't much say in those transfers and besides that, they're like what, 6 years ago at least?
Most "top clubs" in the Bundesliga refuse to sell to Bayern if possible. Havertz is the latest example.
This may be the daftest post in this entire thread, which is no mean feat.
Who cares ? Did we miss Dortmund actually winning it or something? If not, they've done feck all worth bragging about. I mean qualifying is a given considering the lack of competition in your league
And even in our miserable years though we still managed to win the Europa League. That's what big clubs tend to do.
How do you need further explanation? Dortmund won the league back to back in 2010/2011 & 2011/2012, are you still struggling to see and understand that Dortmund has potential to keep winning it more since those years if they never sell/let go Lewandowski, Hummels, Gotze to Bayern and build the team around them?
And then, combine with Haaland, Sancho and other young players for their next generation, it's perfect timing when the likes of Lewandowski, Reus and others retired or past it or need to be replaced.
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I didn't quote you, you quoted me first. My argument is with HerrLeinad not with you, you were just jumping in so I explained it to you what's my argument with HerrLeinad's post. So I don't care what you are doing here because I never ask you in the first place.
It's called sarcastic when I said Bayern likes you, because you lot are their feeding clubs and not showing any threat for the league title. No wonder Bayern fans waste their time to big up other bundesliga teams because they don't see you as their rival.
The point is that if Dortmund keep those players, Dortmund has potential to keep winning more BundesLiga. They won it in 10/11 and 11/12 with Lewandowski, Gotze & Hummels, I could still see them winning it few more in 8 years after 2012 if keep them instead of letting them go to Bayern.
I would like to see teams being able to hold on to their players, and leagues in general being somewhat more balanced. I think sadly though for most teams it's just not that viable due to financial situations. The influx of money in the premiership has allowed greater agency for teams to hold on to the players they want to, but it wasn't that long ago that Manchester United would have their pick of the domestic talents, due to the prestige and power of the club, I think the effect was less pronounced because Chelsea and others had great pulling power too so there was more competition in that sense. It's allowed the likes of Tottenham to hold on to a core group of players, whereas in most other leagues outside of the super clubs they don't have the same capacity. Even a club like Villa which in the modern sense isn't a behemoth has managed to hold on to a talent like Grealish far longer than they would have been able to in the earlier premier league days.
I know it wasn't you who raised this point but I can understand why to a supporter of a club like United the idea of bringing in a player with an agreed release clause would be counter productive
I think from a Dortmund perspective it makes a lot of sense though. They are able to sign a player who is one of the top strikers in world football who probably wouldn't have joined otherwise, while ensuring that they make a good profit and it further cements the idea of Dortmund as a place for young talent to go, which then helps attract the next Haaland. I read that Manchester United opposed the release clause, which makes sense for a club of that kind of stature and prestige, where they're competing on a global stage to be the biggest footballing club in the world. Dortmund aren't though, they function under much greater restrictions and have to follow their own strategy to ensure the future of the club.
That's why I said ''potential''. Dortmund is one of those Bundesliga club that has potential to actually compete with Bayern for long years but unfortunately it never happen because they always end up become the feeding clubs, losing their best young players later on. I won’t be surprised if Upamecano end up joining Bayern.
Nonsense, they only lost Kagawa in the summer 2012, those players were still in the team and didn't won any Bundesliga after that.
They didn't sold them on 1 transfer window, like Southampton did with their talents.
Goetze (2013), Leandowski (2014), Hummels (2016), and 2 of these 3 transfers were debatable. Goetze was overrated (Dortmund won the transfer), Hummels is a Bayern's youth product who was just improving at Dortmund then Bayern buy him back with a higher fee.
Anyway, they were not as dominant as Barcelona during that back to back titles, it was more a problem with Bayern than them being that great. Their team with Mkhytaryan and Aubameyang were also as good as 2010-2012 team, but failed to win any title because of Bayern were too great in Germany.
Even if Dortmund could keep Lewandowski, Bayern would still won the titles with bang average strikers like Olic or Mandzukic.
Read please!! I never say they would win it back to back every year or be dominant, I only said they could win it much more than just those two seasons.
I understand, that's why I bring Dortmund 2015-2016 with Auba-Mkhitaryan into this discussion. Because it's their highest points in the league since 2012.
They didn't need Lewandowski and Goetze to achieve that point but still 10 pts behind Bayern. They couldn't win the title as long as Bayern stick their heads together, even if the players you mentioned earlier were still playing for them.
Their only chance to win more title if Bayern got screwed like Van Gaal did in 2010-2011, not depend on their business in the transfer market.
Yeah but Bayern achieved higher points with ‘’Lewandowski‘’ as their top scorer in bundesliga with 30 league goals.
As others rightfully pointed out, Dortmund didn’t let Lewandowski and Götze go. They could not keep them since they cannot compete financially with Bayern. The gap is way too big and it will take many years of Bayern mismanagement to significantly close it.
Bayern‘s revenue is on United‘s level (even bigger 2019/2020) while the rest of the Bundesliga are minions.
Like I said before ‘’if they can keep’’ and ’’potential’’.
I’m also pretty sure United or Liverpool would never put themselves in situations where the other can pick up their players for free or cheap on release clauses.
The thick shits have done the same now, and I wouldn’t at all be surprised if Haaland seamlessly takes over from Lewa.
Well run clubs prevent the Götze & Lewa, Hummels situations from happening. Strengthening your closest competitors whilst weakening yourselves is the worst thing you can do in football; yet Dortmund let it happen without a fight. It also sets a horrific precedent and firmly cements you as a feeder club rather than a rival, all future players now know this, join Dortmund and you can go to Bayern later.
United were prepared to take Heinze to court ffs
They’d have sold him to Europe for a quid rather than see him at Liverpool.
Dortmund are as stupid as Arsenal and their situations as a side note in their leagues are no surprise.
Do any of you defending Dortmund on losing those players think there’s a cat in hells chance Pogba will be allowed to join Liverpool on a free?
Would Greenwood be allowed a low release clause so City can just nab him after he scores a WC winner?
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Astonishingly, you fail to mention that Dortmund have a lot less money than Bayern, United, Liverpool, City. And that's the answer to pretty much all your long posts in here. It's that simple.I’m also pretty sure United or Liverpool would never put themselves in situations where the other can pick up their players for free or cheap on release clauses.
The thick shits have done the same now, and I wouldn’t at all be surprised if Haaland seamlessly takes over from Lewa.
Well run clubs prevent the Götze & Lewa, Hummels situations from happening. Strengthening your closest competitors whilst weakening yourselves is the worst thing you can do in football; yet Dortmund let it happen without a fight. It also sets a horrific precedent and firmly cements you as a feeder club rather than a rival, all future players now know this, join Dortmund and you can go to Bayern later.
United were prepared to take Heinze to court ffs
They’d have sold him to Europe for a quid rather than see him at Liverpool.
Dortmund are as stupid as Arsenal and their situations as a side note in their leagues are no surprise.
Do any of you defending Dortmund on losing those players think there’s a cat in hells chance Pogba will be allowed to join Liverpool on a free?
Would Greenwood be allowed a low release clause so City can just nab him after he scores a WC winner?
I mean, one can't say I didn't try. Jesus, you lot really have a really special relationship with fats.
Dortmund has been acquiring, nurturing and selling players for profit. A classic feeder club who make money in transfers while pretending to be fighting for titles during the season. What is there to argue about? There is nothing to be ashamed of being part of an ecosystem.
Dortmund are a fantastic club who continually impress in Europe and do a admirable job competing domestically against a superpower. They are hardly a feeder club.
From the fact that you didn’t know you are the one who quoted first, didn’t know what was the argument and telling about your reason you joined the forum which no one asked and up to the very last post of yours, to be fair mate, that’s enough to sums it up about you and I don’t expect you trying to understand anything in discussion.
Is Reus any good these days?
Is feeder club the right term? Stepping stone maybe more apt. Young talents like Sancho, Haaland and Bellingham go there knowing they’ll get plenty of game time to showcase themselves and after a couple of years, if they’ve been successful, they’ll move on.
Sancho, most likely to end up at Utd I imagine, Haaland, probably most likely Man City/Real to replace Aguero/Benzema, Bellingham, we’ll wait and see how he develops.
Never seen Bellingham play. What’s the general thoughts on him?
Sancho, most likely to end up at Utd I imagine, Haaland, probably most likely Man City/Real to replace Aguero/Benzema, Bellingham, we’ll wait and see how he develops.
Never seen Bellingham play. What’s the general thoughts on him?
One could argue that Dortmund are also a superpower to the majority of German clubs, just not Bayern.
Anyone think sanchos lack of form in the early season was due to him not getting the kobe he wanted?
They are a feeder club or a stepping stone club as someone stated above, the club themselves denying the obvious or the bundesliga defence alliance denying it doesn't make it less so.
As the bundesliga fans themselves have said they do not have the financial weight to compete with the big boys, so them suddenly finding a backbone in the Sancho saga last summer and acting like they where competing for their league year in year out compared to the lowly Man United was delusional
Exactly. It is elitist to label a team a "feeder club" because they are not one of the richest clubs in the world.
The world needs the Southamptons, the Ajaxs and the Dortmunds. No shame in it. The Bundesliga defenders overthinking this.
I am pretty certain they buy more players from their competitors (Gladbach, Leverkusen et al.) than Bayern does.
When was the last time they impressed in Europe? Last time they got past the R16 was in 16/17
16 /17 - 18 points behind Bayern
17/18 - 29 points off Bayern
18/19 - 2 points of Bayern
19/20 - 13 points of Bayern
They are 100% a feeder club, if you are competing against someone in your own league, you don't gift wrap your best players to them.
Made a headline/statement. “We’re not a selling club”
contrary to previous comments, United have never had the pick, domestically. Other clubs routinely did business but as soon as United had the temerity to enquire or bid, it was met with the usual “ who do they think they are”. Maybe that was the media doing their duty. Otherwise, we paid the “United tax”.
They sold 1 player to Bayern over the last probably 15 years: Hummels. Hummels being from Bayern’s academy and wanting to go „home“.
Götze? Plus they let Lewas contract run down as he wanted to play for a club that actually wins things. They are a feeder club. Not just for Bayern mind.
11th richest club in Europe, stop making them out to be a poor club.
And if they’d continued their success rather than fecking up and making Bayern stronger, they’d be even richer.
Also... City are miles richer than United.
Also, it was widely reported that Sancho wanted to go home back to England... instead they kept him, didn't see that kind of determination when Bayern come knocking...
Going from Hakimi to Meunier has been a horrible downgrade for them though. He's just bad at crossing and his offensive contribution has been more on the losing possession side than anything else. They have lost a wingback with 9 goals and 10 assists in 45 games (goalcontribution every 188 minutes) last season and replaced him with a 1 goal and 2 assists in 21 games (goalcontribution every 546 minutes) this season player. Meunier is not filling that hole at all.
Their goal seems to be developing talent and sell with profit. To me it seems like they are happy with being number 2 in Germany and get out of their group in the CL. If they had ambitions of winning anything they should and would have invested more in their weak areas like their GK, defence and central midfield.
That said, they play a very entertaining brand of football, they play 4/5 of the most exciting young talents in the world and I love watching them. Haaland is world class, Sancho is close to world class and Reina, Bellingham and Moukoko could very well end up world class eventually too. (none of them will play there in 5 years though)
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How did they sell Lewa? It was a Bosman signing! Gotze had his release clause activated