Cüneyt Çakır

[Cevno]

Rio kicked Joe Cole in the head from a similar situation in Moscow and nothing was given.

They happen all the time - I can kind of see how you could make a case for it being a red with the letter of the law, but certainly not with the spirit of such a big game.

The "harsh Euro red".

There are very less decisions that are not justifiable with some technicality or the other.

A referee can give like 20 penalties many games for pushing and shoving in the box. The van Persie red card against barca was technically justifiable.

The referee could send off Lopez and Arbeloa in the same match against madrid and technically justify it . But then you know a wrong decision is wrong based on set patterns of implementation.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

The way the game is going, it wont be long before a player is sent off for showboating... Unless you play for a Spanish team of course.

 

[Liam147]

Thing is, Nani is neither tackling or challenging for the ball, he's trying to control the bloody thing.

Similar to this:

A player should never ever ever be sent off for trying to control a football, it's fecking ludicrous.

Utter nonsense. Who is Zidane endangering there? I still think the sending off was due to Nani kicking out afterwards. His leg is stretched, then not, then stretched again.

 

[Cevno]

The way the game is going, it wont be long before a player is sent off for showboating... Unless you play for a Spanish team of course.

And then people will point to blah blah rule 2.3.4.44.5.5.3.4.3.34. and justify it.

 

[I'm always right]

Utter nonsense. Who is Zidane endangering there? I still think the sending off was due to Nani kicking out afterwards. His leg is stretched, then not, then stretched again.

Nani doesn't kick out you, his leg hits something that he didn't see coming, he's taken by complete surprise.

Zidande is endangering nothing, and Nani thought the same, he was simply trying to perform the same skill as Zidande and control a ball out of the sky. Arbeloa endangers himself, because he is the only one of the two of them that can see what is about to happen. Nani shouldn't be red carded but Arbeloa decided to put his body on the line, the same way a guy doing an overhead kick shouldn't be red carded if a defender sticks his body on the line.

You should only be shown red for putting a player in danger, and as mentioned Arbeloa is the one that puts himself in danger.

Which part of that is "utter nonsense" Liam

 

[I'm always right]

You have to know you're committing a tackle (i.e., planning to dispossess a player) when you are doing it for it to actually be a tackle. In the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter. But I really think this is one of the reasons why "kicks or attempts to kick" an opponent is one of the penal fouls. I really don't think this counts as a "tackle."

If this is a tackle then why do we have penal fouls like, "striking," "tripping," "charging," "holding," "kicking," "pushing," and... "tackling?" If tackling actually encompassed all the things you say it does, then there should only be the need for 3 or 4 penal fouls.

Totally Cevno, it'd be like a defender coming in from the blindside on the famous Zidane CL final volley and nicking the ball only for Zidane to unknowingly volley the player in the stomach. Should Zidane then be sent off for that?

 

[Liam147]

Nani doesn't kick out you, his leg hits something that he didn't see coming, he's taken by complete surprise.

Zidande is endangering nothing, and Nani thought the same, he was simply trying to perform the same skill as Zidande and control a ball out of the sky.

Which part of that is "utter nonsense" Liam

The part where you compared Zidane controlling a ball, seemingly endangering no one, to Nani studding someone in the ribs!

Zidane, not endangering anyone, doesn't commit a foul. Nani, endangering Arbeloa, gets a booking. I don't make the rules.

 

[kouroux]

The more I watch the replay and the more my blood boils as to how ridiculous the red card was.

 

[I'm always right]

The part where you compared Zidane controlling a ball, seemingly endangering no one, to Nani studding someone in the ribs!

Zidane, not endangering anyone, doesn't commit a foul. Nani, endangering Arbeloa, gets a booking. I don't make the rules.

Are you playing stupid?

I said, "Nani is just trying to do the same as Zidane here", which was control a ball out of the sky. That's just factually undisputedly the truth.

So which part of that is utter nonsense? or have you just gone and ran 50 steps ahead of yourself?

 

[Liam147]

Are you playing stupid?

I said, "Nani is just trying to do the same as Zidane here", which was control a ball out of the sky. That's just factually undisputedly the truth.

So which part of that is utter nonsense? or have you just gone and ran 50 steps ahead of yourself?

It doesn't matter what he's trying to do. Zidane and Nani were in totally different situations, whereas you seemed to be drawing a facile comparison between the two with the picture of Zidane.

 

[paceme]

Are you playing stupid?

I said, "Nani is just trying to do the same as Zidane here", which was control a ball out of the sky. That's just factually undisputedly the truth.

So which part of that is utter nonsense? or have you just gone and ran 50 steps ahead of yourself?

You realize who you are arguing with?

 

[I'm always right]

It doesn't matter what he's trying to do. Zidane and Nani were in totally different situations, whereas you seemed to be drawing a facile comparison between the two with the picture of Zidane.

Who on Earth said they weren't different situations? Why are you running 500 steps ahead on this?

I simply said Nani was trying to control a ball, similar to the way Zidane is controlling it in that pic. What the feck is "nonsense" about that?

Please just answer me this, are Nani and Zidane trying to perform the same piece of skill/control, yes or no?


It's fine to just say "ah, ok I misunderstood what you meant" btw Liam.

 

[I'm always right]

You realize who you are arguing with?

ha ha.

 

[Liam147]

Who on Earth said they weren't different situations? Why are you running 500 steps ahead on this?

I simply said Nani was trying to control a ball, similar to the way Zidane is controlling it in that pic. What the feck is "nonsense" about that?

Please just answer me this, are Nani and Zidane trying to perform the same piece of skill/control, yes or no?


It's fine to just say "ah, ok I misunderstood what you meant" btw Liam.

Yes.

But you were comparing two totally different situations. The picture had no place within your point. It didn't add anything to your point, as no one is questioning that Nani is trying to control the ball.

Anyway, we're both obviously arguing different points.

 

[Ruud10]

The more I watch the replay and the more my blood boils as to how ridiculous the red card was.

Indeed. The cnut's only defense that I can think of is that simply didn't see the play as it actually happened, that as he saw it was a direct stamp on Abeloa's chest. Straight red for serious foul play.

That's why you need video review for a sending off decision.

 

[I'm always right]

Yes.

Thanks, then the picture proved exactly the point I was trying to make. Just because you decided to make up your own debate about something I never said doesn't change that.

 

[kps88]

A video replay in this case might have still sided with the referee when you consider UEFA and the referee are standing by the decision.

 

[I'm always right]

A video replay in this case might have still sided with the referee when you consider UEFA and the referee are standing by the decision.

No chance.

They are only standing by it now because they don't want to throw the referee under the bus. Any sane panel would see that Nani was simply trying to control a football and that Arbeloa but himself into the danger he saw before him, a danger Nani had no idea of.

 

[Chabon]

They should make clear Bicycle shots are not legi then?

That's the implication of Nani's red card, hence my jokey thread about banning Berba for life.

 

[Diabo_Sam]

I'm not over it yet

 

[I'm always right]

That's the implication of Nani's red card, hence my jokey thread about banning Berba for life.

Scissor kicks, controlling the ball like Zidane, bicycle kicks... if UEFA say Nani was a red card then all this should be outlawed.

If not, the next time someone goes for a bicycle kick, a defender should just lunch his body in there.

 

[Scrumpet]

Well, if you bicycle kick someone in the head by accident, you're getting booked.

 

[Justin]

Well, if you bicycle kick someone in the head by accident, you're getting booked.

Not always

 

[Scrumpet]

I think you'd be lucky if you weren't. Anyway, everyone with a brain knows it was a terrible decision, there's no need for people to try make it sound worse by saying silly things about how ludicrous it is that Nani was sent off for trying to control a football.

 

[Comsmit]

No chance.

They are only standing by it now because they don't want to throw the referee under the bus. Any sane panel would see that Nani was simply trying to control a football and that Arbeloa but himself into the danger he saw before him, a danger Nani had no idea of.

That is rubbish. They are standing by him because they believe he stuck to the interpretation of the law. Some people seem to forget that football is governed by laws and not the opinions of Mr Joe Public who deemed Nani was simply "trying to control the ball." There are countless incidents like this season after season and Nani is not the first player to receive his marching orders for such a clash.

I don't agree with the sending off, but I understand "why" he was sent off. You cannot escape the fact he left the ground and flew through the air with his foot at shoulder height. Whether he "saw" Arbeloa isn't the issue, it's the fact he willingly decided to jump into the air with his foot raised, hence heightening the odds he could endanger someone. It's unfair but it is part of the rules that govern football......and they are in place to prevent serious injury to the people who play the game. Players will fall foul of the rules all the time, rightly or wrongly.....you have to take it on the chin and move on. The referee is there to do a job he is paid for and he is paid to uphold the rules of the game.

Roy Keane was right when he referred to the rulebook on Tuesday.....it was dangerous play. As he said "don't give the referee a reason to send you off."

 

[Amir]

What Nani did is the sort of thing that falls under Dangerous Play. What happens from there is up to the referee and how he views the incident. Situations where a player accidently hits another player with a high foot never end up with a red card. At times, especially in the box, it's just a foul. Under the rules, a referee can decide a certain high foot was done on purpose and send the player off simply for serious foul play, but referees simply don't send players off for what Nani did. I can't blame him for doing something that is done every week.

 

[Liam147]

That is rubbish. They are standing by him because they believe he stuck to the interpretation of the law. Some people seem to forget that football is governed by laws and not the opinions of Mr Joe Public who deemed Nani was simply "trying to control the ball." There are countless incidents like this season after season and Nani is not the first player to receive his marching orders for such a clash.

I don't agree with the sending off, but I understand "why" he was sent off. You cannot escape the fact he left the ground and flew through the air with his foot at shoulder height. Whether he "saw" Arbeloa isn't the issue, it's the fact he willingly decided to jump into the air with his foot raised, hence heightening the odds he could endanger someone. It's unfair but it is part of the rules that govern football......and they are in place to prevent serious injury to the people who play the game. Players will fall foul of the rules all the time, rightly or wrongly.....you have to take it on the chin and move on. The referee is there to do a job he is paid for and he is paid to uphold the rules of the game.

Roy Keane was right when he referred to the rulebook on Tuesday.....it was dangerous play. As he said "don't give the referee a reason to send you off."

Caftard in common sense shocker!

The only thing I disagree with is the last paragraph. Dangerous play alone isn't enough to get you sent off, but when you know there's a player around you, and you launch yourself in the air to win the ball, the ref asks himself, did he use excessive force? Did he use more force than necessary to win that ball? You didn't see Arbeloa flying in; obviously the ref thought that Nani could've done the same thing, but in choosing not to, he used more force than necessary. It's a judgement call.

 

[Comsmit]

What Nani did is the sort of thing that falls under Dangerous Play. What happens from there is up to the referee and how he views the incident. Situations where a player accidently hits another player with a high foot never end up with a red card. At times, especially in the box, it's just a foul. Under the rules, a referee can decide a certain high foot was done on purpose and send the player off simply for serious foul play, but referees simply don't send players off for what Nani did. I can't blame him for doing something that is done every week.

I agree. The referee has to interpret the act of dangerous play....but he is paid to do that. In this instance I believe he was wrong but, as Simon Rice points out, Eboue was sent off at Old Trafford in 2008 for a similar incident (probably less dangerous than Nani.) Ironically Nani was one of the players clamouring for action to be taken that day.

Players do get sent off, in this case it has affected us in the biggest of games.

 

[Comsmit]

Caftard in common sense shocker!

The only thing I disagree with is the last paragraph. Dangerous play alone isn't enough to get you sent off, but when you know there's a player around you, and you launch yourself in the air to win the ball, the ref asks himself, did he use excessive force? Did he use more force than necessary to win that ball? You didn't see Arbeloa flying in; obviously the ref thought that Nani could've done the same thing, but in choosing not to, he used more force than necessary. It's a judgement call.

Yep totally concur, I didn't neccessarily intend to imply Nani should have received red for dangerous play....merely that Keane pointed out it was dangerous play which then puts your fate in the hands of the referee.

It's no secret Çakır is a card-happy official, we should have been aware of that at some level. I actually believe he officiated the rest of the game pretty darn well. I'm pissed off with his decision but some of the vitriol in this thread is just boneheaded.

 

[Ruud10]

A video replay in this case might have still sided with the referee when you consider UEFA and the referee are standing by the decision.

Maybe, if it's the same referee who would make the final decision, in this case the Turkish cnut who has sent off legions of English players before.

It's not a bullet proof proposal, but it's a helluva lot better than allowing one man to tell one team to fukk off without any rational basis whatsoever.

An simpler solution would be to have Mexican referees handle all knockout round games. They're consistently far, far better than European referees. But this is not a practical solution. What a pity the English get stuck with shit referees every weekend, only to be screwed again on "European nights".

Who was the ref who gave RvP the second yellow card when Arsenal were playing, and managing pretty through that moment, Barcelona? That decision was even worse than this one, but this one ridiculous.

 

[#07]

Barcelona star Xavi slams Turkish ref Cakir for 'very harsh' Nani red card

 

[Shane88]

Barcelona star Xavi slams Turkish ref Cakir for 'very harsh' Nani red card

A pic from the article...

Look at the smug bastard. You can tell that he's loving the attention.

I went from rage on Tuesday night to ''ah feck it'' acceptance on Wednesday and Thursday. Now I'm back to rage again after seeing that picture.

Look at the cnut!

 

[Swaters16]

I can't believe people are saying because Nani jumped into the air there was potential for a red to be given. If that is the case any time any player ever jumps into the air and tries to bring down a ball they should be sent off because there is the potential for someone to be hurt. What about goal keepers diving for balls? They're endangering their lives, reckless stuff. Should be a red too. In fact, lets just give out reds for anything that could ever hurt someone, so that includes running. What if you bumped into someone or tripped over? They could die.

It was never a red card. That's the way it is. The ref was wrong and everyone knows it. I'm sure Uefa know it but their to corrupt to actually come out and admit any kind of mistake ever on their part.

 

[Red Dreams]

I am sure his carry on must be heavier on the return trip.

 

[Comsmit]

A pic from the article...

Look at the smug bastard. You can tell that he's loving the attention.

I went from rage on Tuesday night to ''ah feck it'' acceptance on Wednesday and Thursday. Now I'm back to rage again after seeing that picture.

Look at the cnut!

Yes I'm absolutely positive he has really enjoyed receiving death threats from boneheaded United "fans." At the end of the day he has been backed by his peers and his bosses....he will rightly feel justified.

You are channelling your frustration in a very shallow way. The referee didn't cost us the game if that is your implication.

 

[SirAF]

Yes I'm absolutely positive he has really enjoyed receiving death threats from boneheaded United "fans." At the end of the day he has been backed by his peers and his bosses....he will rightly feel justified.

You are channelling your frustration in a very shallow way. The referee didn't cost us the game if that is your implication.

Of course he has!

 

[Comsmit]

I can't believe people are saying because Nani jumped into the air there was potential for a red to be given. If that is the case any time any player ever jumps into the air and tries to bring down a ball they should be sent off because there is the potential for someone to be hurt. What about goal keepers diving for balls? They're endangering their lives, reckless stuff. Should be a red too. In fact, lets just give out reds for anything that could ever hurt someone, so that includes running. What if you bumped into someone or tripped over? They could die.

It was never a red card. That's the way it is. The ref was wrong and everyone knows it. I'm sure Uefa know it but their to corrupt to actually come out and admit any kind of mistake ever on their part.

Banged to rights there ey. Darn.

 

[Sarni]

Yes I'm absolutely positive he has really enjoyed receiving death threats from boneheaded United "fans." At the end of the day he has been backed by his peers and his bosses....he will rightly feel justified.

You are channelling your frustration in a very shallow way. The referee didn't cost us the game if that is your implication.

Of course he cost us the game. We were in front and in control of the tie before he decided to change it for good with a sending off.

 

[rufus diabolus]

Yes I'm absolutely positive he has really enjoyed receiving death threats from boneheaded United "fans." At the end of the day he has been backed by his peers and his bosses....he will rightly feel justified.

You are channelling your frustration in a very shallow way. The referee didn't cost us the game if that is your implication.

We were pretty comfortable until Nani was wrongly sent off, obviously not guaranteed progression but the ref played a huge part in the outcome.

 

[Sarni]

Anyone saying it was a red is, as I've already said, trying to provide a forced objectivity. There's nothing objective about saying Nani deserved a red card when most of the opposition fans and Real Madrid fans reckon it wasn't a red, and basically all neutrals that I know feel the same. And of course intent has to be taken into consideration.