ha ha, I know. What has pissed me off so much about the other night isn't the sending off as such, bad decisions happen, but it's the amount of people both in my day to day life and in the media that are saying they understand why Nani was sent off and that the referee just applied the rules. It's bonkers.
Cüneyt Çakır
- Thread starter Shane88
- Start date
Also refs can have bad decisions.
But those are the ones where they have limited view or a slit second to make a decision.
I understand they are humans but these kind of blatant decisions that really make me want to twat the ref.
But those are the ones where they have limited view or a slit second to make a decision.
I understand they are humans but these kind of blatant decisions that really make me want to twat the ref.
I wish this thread would disappear from the front page. It makes my blood boil every time I read his name.
the most annoying thing about it, is that he had about 2minutes to think about it before producing the red.
A yellow would have just about been warranted, and everyone could have carried on enjoying what was a finely poised tie.
A yellow would have just about been warranted, and everyone could have carried on enjoying what was a finely poised tie.
Which peers have backed him up? So far I've seen two retired English refs, a retired Turkish one, a retired Spanish one and a retired Danish one all saying it was wrong. The closes to "backing him up" I've seen was from another retired Danish ref who said it was "very harsh", which is hardly a stamp of approval.
The fact that he was backed by his bosses doesn't really say much.
So your argument is that there would've been no (or very few) complaints if we had gone on and won the game? I highly doubt it, considering the reactions to Fletcher's red card against Arsenal when we won the tie comfortably https://www.redcafe.net/f6/fletcher-surely-we-can-appeal-247258/
It's a poor argument at best anyway. Of course the mood on here would've been different if we had won the game and of course people would've been praising the team of winning the game despite the sending off. As pointed out above though, I'm sure there'd be plenty of people who would've found it more enjoyable if Nani hadn't been sent off and by that wrongly ruled out of the next fixtures.
Of course the red card is not the only reason as teams have managed to get a result with 10 players before, but if you don't think it was the biggest one you're a tool. Madrid hardly had a sniff before the sending off and we created a lot of chances. You also have to understand the mechanics behind a red card. I think Madrid were about to get frustrated because we've kept them relatively quiet for the entire game, but when Nani was sent off they (and their fans) saw a way to win this game. It gave them a morale boost and Mourinho was able to make a very attacking substitution. The red card also freed up Alonso, who Welbeck had kept out of the game until the sending off.
Arguing that the red card didn't change the game entirely and wasn't the main factor in Madrid's win is simply bullshit. Even the Madrid fans I've talked to agree with that.
I'd never tire of punching his face, to wipe that shit-eating grin off it. Twat.
Nah I disagree, I can see why he sent Nani off and I think you probably can make a decent case in the laws for doing so.
But, to send Nani off he had to have been looking for an excuse to get his cards out, an excuse to be centre stage and an excuse to be a twat.
It's bad refereeing regardless of if you can justify a red.
You Sir have just shut that silly boy Conduit, or whatever his name is, firmly up.
Well done.
Fergie is rightly entitled to be worried bout a young referee taking charge of a huge game, and was evidently right to be worried about his suitability. That's a world away from suggesting he was bribed or biased as a lot on here seem to believe.
It benefits Fergie to play this up - his side lost but he can rightly say they were hard done to. That will keep the players confidence high.
You should also read the last sentence again - its done now and the club will move on.
If you saw a still picture of the contact it would seem a no brainer, which seems alot of people have done.
if you watch the actual act happening though and put in the context of the build up to it, it's clearly never a red IMO.
His foot wasn't so high that it was "dangerous", and it was clearly an accidental collision.
Us and every other club. Every fan can give examples of shite decisions.
My point is that in the Chelsea game the ref awarded a harsh red which effectively killed it as a contest. He could have used his "discretion" to let him stay on, but technically had the right to send him off, and did. Common sense would suggest he shouldn't have.
The other night was similar - a challenge which technically, under the rules can be a red if considered dangerous. The complaint is that he didn't use his discretion or any common sense when he should clearly have given a yellow.
Bottom line is both decisions were poor, one went for us, the other didnt. It pisses me off as much as the next man but it's part and parcel of the game - you get good and bad luck and I'd say over a season it's usually pretty even.
Unfortunately though I think the angle where it looks worst is the angle Cakir has seen it from.
But regardless, I don't think people are criticising him for the right reasons. He made a mistake, but the reasons why he made that mistake was because he was too quick to get his cards out, and he is a smug self centred cnut, that should be why he's getting criticised.
Refereeing is a profession where the best game you can have is when nobody notices your presence, anyone that is reffing like this twat and actively trying to make themselves the centre of attention should be sacked.
They're saying on Football Focus that Arbeloa shouldn't have been on the pitch after his challenge of Evra.
Well if Nani's red was anything to go by, then the ref should have sent their keeper off, for punching Vidic in the face. Granted, the keeper was going for the ball, missed and got Vidic's face. But similar in respect to Nani's red all the same.
I agree with you that it isn't a red, but his foot was neck/chin height. The only reason it catches Arbeloa in the ribs is cos Arbeloa jumped for the ball.
They both jumped.
Arbeloa studs on Evra were head height. The only reason they weren't was because they both didn't jump.
Bizarre argument.
I presume you're talking about the second red, the one for torres? In that case, agreed. The Ivanovic red card is another matter though.
The Ivanovic red was clear cut and the right decision. The Torres red was bizzare.
It wasn't that bizarre, he got a tiny hint of a clip from Evans and gave it the full electric headjolt. It looks exactly like a dive, and it was certainly 'simulation', unless Jonny has a tazer in his boot.
It's actually weird how big a scandal was made of that match, as both the decisions that went in our favour were utterly marginal, and we were already playing against ten men anyway.
It's actually weird how big a scandal was made of that match, as both the decisions that went in our favour were utterly marginal, and we were already playing against ten men anyway.
I think this should be a sticky to remind us out utterly awful the red was.
It looked like a dive because it was a dive, and a bad one at that.
Evans brushed Torres' right leg, Torres threw himself over his left one.
It's four days later and all of us, myself, should "move on". But I'm having a really hard time moving on.
Why was this referee decision so bad? After all, we see bad referee decision almost every day, right? We see a lot of bad decisions made in big games and will see bad decisions made in big games for the rest of our lives. Human beings make mistakes.
How about the Mendes non-call when the ball clearly crossed the goal line by two yards, maybe even three? The Drogba non-call when he was clearly was a yard offside.? The call on Scholes to be offside v Porto when he was not offside? Any number of dives that steal a pk? Or any number of fouls in the box that go uncalled?
What pisses me off about this one in particular is that the Turkish referee completely misunderstands Law 12. At least with Mendes, Drogba, Scholes and all the dives the referee just missed it and didn't dispute what the law is, either in what it allows or prohibits. They just got it wrong, based on what they thought they saw.
The Turkish referee not only got it wrong in real time, which was bad luck for us, but he has defended his decision publicly, which boggles the mind. With the benefit of video replay, you can ask what Nani did wrong with respect to "sending off offences" either with respect the letter and the spirit of the Laws and safely answer -- absolutely nothing. We've discussed Law 12 enough here to leave that at that.
But the thought that a referee, especially at this level of competition, can so completely ignore and reinvent the laws of the game and arbitrarily send off a player is reprehensible.
Even more shocking, UEFA apparently are so pleased with Cakir's performance that, if media reports are to be believed, they are seriously considering rewarding with the handling the CL final in May. Surreal.
Why was this referee decision so bad? After all, we see bad referee decision almost every day, right? We see a lot of bad decisions made in big games and will see bad decisions made in big games for the rest of our lives. Human beings make mistakes.
How about the Mendes non-call when the ball clearly crossed the goal line by two yards, maybe even three? The Drogba non-call when he was clearly was a yard offside.? The call on Scholes to be offside v Porto when he was not offside? Any number of dives that steal a pk? Or any number of fouls in the box that go uncalled?
What pisses me off about this one in particular is that the Turkish referee completely misunderstands Law 12. At least with Mendes, Drogba, Scholes and all the dives the referee just missed it and didn't dispute what the law is, either in what it allows or prohibits. They just got it wrong, based on what they thought they saw.
The Turkish referee not only got it wrong in real time, which was bad luck for us, but he has defended his decision publicly, which boggles the mind. With the benefit of video replay, you can ask what Nani did wrong with respect to "sending off offences" either with respect the letter and the spirit of the Laws and safely answer -- absolutely nothing. We've discussed Law 12 enough here to leave that at that.
But the thought that a referee, especially at this level of competition, can so completely ignore and reinvent the laws of the game and arbitrarily send off a player is reprehensible.
Even more shocking, UEFA apparently are so pleased with Cakir's performance that, if media reports are to be believed, they are seriously considering rewarding with the handling the CL final in May. Surreal.
feck me, if I had a pound for every time I heard a United fan bang on about that Drogba offside goal!
The Macheda handball goal is never mentioned - that was one of the worst United "big game" performances I can remember, just didn't get going that day. The fans and players weren't up for it for some reason - was very subdued at OT.
Pique's not so secret lover is a tool.
it is very well put. I think if anyone from UEFA with a bit of sense should read your post, and think hard and fast why they (who appointed incompetent referee and stuck by their mistake) are doing this to us. Any chance you and some eloquent posters here would write to UEFA to educate them? And to let them know they can't cover up any more.
Do it before 21 march. Hopefully united"s lawyer is onto soemthing helping.
Hold on cowboy, I'm just using examples of bad referee calls, nothing more! I'm not relitigating whether Chelsea should have been champions in 09-10. We got beat on the day at OT and that's ancient history.
Another example I forgot to mention a few minutes ago was the second yellow on RvP for "time wasting" v Barcelona. I can't recall exactly what the stopwatch said at the time but I believe I read RvP took the shot 8 tenths of a second after he heard the whistle. And got sent off -- second yellow -- for it. Still something like 25 minutes left in the game, not stoppage time. Insanity.
The point at hand is that sometime bad calls are just bad luck -- as in the referee/linesman just missed it (Scholes being called offside, Mendes not getting the goal, Drogba not called offside, Macheda not getting called for a handball, RvP getting booked a second time for time wasting and so on) but an arbitrary reinvention of the rule providing for a straight red in the case of serious foul play by virtue of using excessive force, which Nani was absolutely not guilty of.
Rather than stating it had "no problem" with the Cakir's decision to send off Nani, it should have issued a statement apologizing for the mistake -- after all, mistakes do happen -- and take responsibility for it by dropping Cakir from any further CL participation.
excpet this was a cup competition. i still cant get my head around the sheer scale of that game,it was being conducted so well by both teams, the madrid fans applauding giggs on in madrid. its such a huge cliche but i do think it was a great advert for football. tactical but never boring, world class players,tow great stadiums,200m watching and one fecking cnut ruined it all for everyone with an absolutely ludicrous decision. its nothing like clattenburgs decision in that he made a decision that torres dived,this ref made a decision that nani tried to control a ball. you should never, ever ever be sent off, straight red, for trying to control a football and not spotting a man steming in from your blind side. that decision will never be evened out as we're out.
also, i think there are times where decisions dont even out over a season. this season being one of the examples, 2009/10 the other. if the chelsea game is the strongest example of decisions going for us then the weight of poor decisions is incredibly stacked against us this season. its not "rawk like" its not "excuses",we do get our share but the fact is, this season we havent. the refs have been abysmal and there is a huge element of them fearing being seen as "pro united" due to the ludicrous claims of fans and media. webb this weekend will be a perfect example, all it takes is a a pile of fecking knobs on twitter and pics of webb in a united shirt and we havent got a decision from him since he sent off gerrard, in what everyone ignores was a fecking stonewall red. its absurd.
I get your point and granted it was a shocking decision but it does amuse me how often it is mentioned (always in isolation and never in the context that Macheda threw the consolation over the line). Fergie was even talking about it earlier in the season.
As for Webb, he gave you two penalties against us last year (the second of which was extremely soft). That's one more penalty in a ten minute period than he has given us since 2005.
The reason it's brought up was because it was such a hugely critical decision that swung an entire title race in one team's favour.
Whereas the Macheda goal was pretty much meaningless.
It's not conspiracy, it's not that no one refuses to see Macheda's goal was handball (it clearly was), just that it's shit when a clearly bullshit decision decides something so important.
Your shit performance swung the title race in our favour. You didn't turn up and barely created a chance - you were 1-0 down anyway and doing nothing. It was the most "un-United" big game performance I can remember.
It was a terrible call, granted.
That's not true, we started shit but at the time of the Drogba goal we were looking threatening.
the classic examples of the sheer fecking pig headedness of all those who despise united and love perpetuating the myth that they have some inexplicable control over the refs (think about it,who would benefit from this?how could they control them?what would be the fecking point in refs going along with it?!) are the following decisions that caused such huge outrage united suffered with decisions in the months after:
1) owens winner vs city. claim: fergie time, united allowed to play until they won. reality: the goal was scored well within the time that should have been added, clear as day proof if you want to take out your stop watch,also city got to play those minutes too,not just united.
2) berbatov penalty vs liverpool in cup. claim: clear dive,howard webb supports united. reality: berbatov went down easily after being fouled in the box by agger who was too rash and too tight to his man. penalty.
3) gerrard red card vs united. claim: never a red,howard webb supports united. reality: both feet over the ground, studs up,didnt get the ball, did get the man,wild lunge in, as clear a red card as you could see.
4) the best of all. carrick penalty v tottenham. claim: united were two down and letting lead at top slip,howard webb supports united and decided to give them a penalty. reality: gomes rushed out of his box, made a fecking insanely stupid decision,got nowhere near the ball, carrick went over eaily but you see the same decision almost every week. penalty and one could argue gomes should be punished further. also united won 5-2 and battered the shite out of spurs for 45 minutes. this penalty made it 1-2.
overall, united sustained success has made millions of fans bitter. instead of just acknowledging the incredible work of ferguson its easier,believe it or not, to claim some sort of vast conspiracy that for some unknown reason has never been brought to light. you couldnt make the shit up.
1) owens winner vs city. claim: fergie time, united allowed to play until they won. reality: the goal was scored well within the time that should have been added, clear as day proof if you want to take out your stop watch,also city got to play those minutes too,not just united.
2) berbatov penalty vs liverpool in cup. claim: clear dive,howard webb supports united. reality: berbatov went down easily after being fouled in the box by agger who was too rash and too tight to his man. penalty.
3) gerrard red card vs united. claim: never a red,howard webb supports united. reality: both feet over the ground, studs up,didnt get the ball, did get the man,wild lunge in, as clear a red card as you could see.
4) the best of all. carrick penalty v tottenham. claim: united were two down and letting lead at top slip,howard webb supports united and decided to give them a penalty. reality: gomes rushed out of his box, made a fecking insanely stupid decision,got nowhere near the ball, carrick went over eaily but you see the same decision almost every week. penalty and one could argue gomes should be punished further. also united won 5-2 and battered the shite out of spurs for 45 minutes. this penalty made it 1-2.
overall, united sustained success has made millions of fans bitter. instead of just acknowledging the incredible work of ferguson its easier,believe it or not, to claim some sort of vast conspiracy that for some unknown reason has never been brought to light. you couldnt make the shit up.
I thought it was an exaggerated contact rather than a dive, which is something you see often and refs usually wave them off without giving a yellow card. Certainly when a player is on a yellow and they're down to ten men already, I think that would've been the preferable course of action. On the other hand, Torres couldn't complain about it as it was a foolish thing to do on a yellow. But the ref didn't have to show the card.
Still not the same as the Nani case though, that's just never a sending off.
We have lots of stuff that does not go our way. Difference is being the fantastic side we are, we go on to win most of those games anyway and it all gets forgotten
People need to stop saying shite like "it evens itself out" or "you win some you lose some"; this was a match of huge importance, it bothers me how people are failing to see that. Fergie has won 12 PL titles, but only two CL ones. The club itself only has 3. It's obvious that every year that goes by with Fergie in charge and a great squad of players at his disposal is seen as a massive missed opportunity to win it. This year would have been one of the best opportunities, with Bayern the only other true contender left in it in my opinion.
UEFA have backed him, Collina (UEFA assessor) marked him down only for his failure to deal with Rio for the sarcastic applause (which was great by the way!). If you study the context of my post you would understand I'm suggesting in Çakır's view he has been backed by the people that matter most to him....his employers. In his eyes being backed by his bosses vindicates his decision. He isn't going to care what football pundits feel, or Manchester United fans......why would he?
Completely different scenario. The game against Arsenal was already comfortably secured and everyone knew this. Fletcher would miss the final after a terrific performance and a terrific season. If Nani was out for the first game of the quarters no one would be in mourning. We would just be grateful to have progressed after a backs-to-the-wall job.
I do believe it was the defining reason....as I suggested in the last sentence. It was the collective reaction to the decision that cost us at Old Trafford. As stated previously though...there are other reasons we did not progress, that much is obvious.
That's good then we agree here....seen as I've not argued otherwise. I simply suggested it was not the only reason we didn't qualify, which it isn't.
This is obviously absurd. It doesn't really even itself up in a league and it certainly doesn't even itself up in a knock out competition. We're out, that's that. There's no evening things up.
Eh, what? Think you might want to rewatch the incident.
I agree with the rest though. Webb has made some terrible calls in our favour and some terrible calls against us. Somewhere along the line the "Webb loves United!!!" started and it's stuck ever since regardless on what has actually happened in the games. I was at a gold wedding at my girlfriend's grandparents a few weeks back and there was an 11 year old (Danish) Chelsea supporter who believed this "Webb favours United" shit as well. I just laughed at him and turned away.
UEFA backing him had made it alright then? It will surely shut us up then. Why would he care? No, dont think he care a bit. He will care about the spanish team not United for sure. But coming from your mouth?!!! Have you any moral? You think it's alright as long as he's backed by his employer? Has UEFA ever not back their employees or better yet, admitting their own incompetence in appointing unfair and useless referees? Why are you still insisting this Cnut is alright and we should not bother any more?
No it's not the only reason we were defeated. There are thousands of other reasons we got beaten, like maybe Evra having a stomach cramp or Rooney having a moment's lack of concentration or..... The list goes on, but it has nothing to do with us not doing our best when down with 10 men. Please stop giving excuses for the Cnut because you failed miserably!