Can anyone who thinks we should have an overhaul or sack Mourinho post here please and explain why?

afrocentricity

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Feel free to put me on ignore if this isn't acceptable, I'll get over it.
Your post is fine. The posts I'm talking about are the obvious low effort posts that ignore any counter argument you put to them. There are loads of examples...

The guys that are getting indignant and assuming I don't like differing opinions are way off the mark but they seem to be reacting rather than posting.

Think about it, is it not more more likely that I'm putting legit suicide watch drama queens on ignore as opposed to people who have a different opinion? I've been on here over 10 years and today is the first time I've used ignore. Differing opinions is no issue for me. In fact anyone who has paid attention to any of my posts on here (probably only a few) will know that pointing out that people are different and have different opinions, experience and reactions is something I often do..... Cest la vie.
 

RedMilo

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I have two schools of thought about the subject

Firstly, does JM deserve to be sacked? The honest answer is probably not No. Any manager who has won two trophies in the last 12 months and followed that up by improving the teams league standing, doesn't deserve to be sacked.

However, I don't like the guy. I don't like his style of management. The fact he played Fellaini against Sevilla and decided to play hoof ball to him and Lukaku from the outset told me whilst disappointed me didn't surprise me anymore. Style seems to be lacking, theres no transitional fluidity to our play. He has accommodated Sanchez and our two most creative players in Martial & Pogba are suffering as a result, for example Martial was player of the month prior to the Sanchez signing but can't recall him starting on the left since he arrived. I am not criticising the Sanchez signing(it was an opportunity to bring in a quality player and weaken a rival at the same time) but the TEAM needed a CM, this was priority at the time and still is.

SBC was right about JM, he makes it all about himself, and whilst SAF carried the burden of the Glazer debt for many years, JM criticises the club for not giving him an open chequebook, moaning at every opportunity about not competing with City but yet spends £x00m's of pounds on signings with Lindelof the worst signing in recent memory.

I don't like how the clubs run at the moment, I don't like the clubs transfer policy and whilst at Old Trafford tomorrow, I will be cheering on the reds not because Jose's got us playing the way we should but in spite of the way Jose's got us playing...
 

L1nk

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He deserves to get to the end of the season, but at that point a mutual termination would be beneficial for both parties I believe, let me explain why.

After LVG nobody thought the football could get any worse, we won the FA Cup, Mourinho comes in, makes, what we think at the time some solid investments, particularly Pogba, everyone's excited to see the boy wonder come home, we've all seen what level he played to at Juventus after all. First season isn't bad, it isn't great but there is progress, good for a first season, adding a couple of, whilst not particularly big, but decent, trophies along the way and bringing us back into the CL again, all setup for Mourinho's signature second season where he kicks on. Bearing in mind when he started he was laying down the expectations for everyone of winning the league in the 2nd/3rd season. More signings in the summer, great, decent start to the season, and then what, negativity, route one long ball tactics, stagnation, seemingly falling outs with players publicly, signings aren't what we expected, they aren't performing to the level they were before they joined us, Mkhitaryan got swapped and Sanchez has been no better, we got embarassingly knocked out by a poor team in the CL, only chance of a trophy is FA Cup but even that isn't guaranteed. Only improvement is the league position really, but De Gea has dug us out of a hole in a few matches and the teams around us shouldn't of been so poor in as many matches as they have been this season.

At the end of the day i don't see progression from last season, if anything i see stagnation at best, slightly backwards at worst. It's all there for everyone to see on the pitch, i can't tell if there just isn't any coaching being applied, particularly in an attacking sense, or if the players just aren't responding to Mourinho's method anymore, i can't say I blame them when i'm looking at all our rivals play beautiful football and they are forced to play this tosh, must be soul wrenching at times.

People will say well he needs more money! Man City have spent loads! Okay? So? This is squad isn't relegation fodder and it's certainly good enough to be beating Sevilla, we've lost and played negative crap against a lot of teams with half the squad value or ours and much less investment, yet apparently the excuse is not enough money spent? Nobody is expecting champagne Man City football and barnstorming league runs just yet, but i refuse to believe the reason he's making the team play the way it is is because he thinks the squad is crap, which, lets be honest if he believes that, is partially his fault at this point anyway, a lot of money and very few players, most of which aren't performing to the standards they've set previously, and yet he's earned the trust to get another few hundred million in the summer apparently. What happens when he spends another load of money and he's still nowhere near the title next season? Let's throw more money at it again somethings bound to change sooner or later!

My preferential idea for the summer would be for Woodward and the board to wake up and stop thinking short term, learn about the actual game of football, bring in a DOF that will stop the mess of these post Fergie years from ever happening to us ever again, pair them up with Ribalta, bring in a young progressive coach (Tuchel, Jardim) that actually gets the fans excited with a modern approach to football that will bring out the best in the young exciting attacking options we have whilst we still have them and they haven't been traded away for workhorses or scapegoated to the point of wanting out. Oh and before people say oh well its gonna be another 3 years of rebuilding then if this happens, no, nobody ever does this in football apart from us apparently, every manager uses players from previous regimes and usually to good effect, so it isn't an issue.

Just sick of the deadweight football the excuses, not asking for every trophy, not asking to win every match, just simply to enjoy my football again and to see the club actually doing well.
 

haram

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How can people still argue there has been no progression?

Only improvement is the league position really, but De Gea has dug us out of a hole in a few matches and the teams around us shouldn't of been so poor in as many matches as they have been this season.
I have no idea what you are trying to say here either.
 

ash_86

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We beat Chelsea after a dominant second half display, we beat Liverpool after comprehensively outplaying them for the majority of the match, the players performed terribly against Palace but came out of the game with their pride intact and the 3 points due to a show of strong character. The fans were relatively happy at this point in the season, top 4 was all but secure, we still in the CL and winning the FA Cup was a realistic possibility. All good in the hood.... Then came that game against Sevilla and everything changed. Happiness turned to devastation in the blink of an eye.

Is it safe to assume that consecutive wins against Brighton and West Ham over the next 8 days will see our feelings on the matter turn full circle once again? Get the feeling it might. Point being this, if we have learned anything since the departure of SAF, and the general lack of success that came as a result of that departure, it's that our fanbase is fickle is feck. With that in mind, would it not be best to wait until the season is completely done and dusted before we make anymore knee-jerk decisions?
have to agree with this.
 

vangagal

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He deserves to get to the end of the season, but at that point a mutual termination would be beneficial for both parties I believe, let me explain why.

After LVG nobody thought the football could get any worse, we won the FA Cup, Mourinho comes in, makes, what we think at the time some solid investments, particularly Pogba, everyone's excited to see the boy wonder come home, we've all seen what level he played to at Juventus after all. First season isn't bad, it isn't great but there is progress, good for a first season, adding a couple of, whilst not particularly big, but decent, trophies along the way and bringing us back into the CL again, all setup for Mourinho's signature second season where he kicks on. Bearing in mind when he started he was laying down the expectations for everyone of winning the league in the 2nd/3rd season. More signings in the summer, great, decent start to the season, and then what, negativity, route one long ball tactics, stagnation, seemingly falling outs with players publicly, signings aren't what we expected, they aren't performing to the level they were before they joined us, Mkhitaryan got swapped and Sanchez has been no better, we got embarassingly knocked out by a poor team in the CL, only chance of a trophy is FA Cup but even that isn't guaranteed. Only improvement is the league position really, but De Gea has dug us out of a hole in a few matches and the teams around us shouldn't of been so poor in as many matches as they have been this season.

At the end of the day i don't see progression from last season, if anything i see stagnation at best, slightly backwards at worst. It's all there for everyone to see on the pitch, i can't tell if there just isn't any coaching being applied, particularly in an attacking sense, or if the players just aren't responding to Mourinho's method anymore, i can't say I blame them when i'm looking at all our rivals play beautiful football and they are forced to play this tosh, must be soul wrenching at times.

People will say well he needs more money! Man City have spent loads! Okay? So? This is squad isn't relegation fodder and it's certainly good enough to be beating Sevilla, we've lost and played negative crap against a lot of teams with half the squad value or ours and much less investment, yet apparently the excuse is not enough money spent? Nobody is expecting champagne Man City football and barnstorming league runs just yet, but i refuse to believe the reason he's making the team play the way it is is because he thinks the squad is crap, which, lets be honest if he believes that, is partially his fault at this point anyway, a lot of money and very few players, most of which aren't performing to the standards they've set previously, and yet he's earned the trust to get another few hundred million in the summer apparently. What happens when he spends another load of money and he's still nowhere near the title next season? Let's throw more money at it again somethings bound to change sooner or later!

My preferential idea for the summer would be for Woodward and the board to wake up and stop thinking short term, learn about the actual game of football, bring in a DOF that will stop the mess of these post Fergie years from ever happening to us ever again, pair them up with Ribalta, bring in a young progressive coach (Tuchel, Jardim) that actually gets the fans excited with a modern approach to football that will bring out the best in the young exciting attacking options we have whilst we still have them and they haven't been traded away for workhorses or scapegoated to the point of wanting out. Oh and before people say oh well its gonna be another 3 years of rebuilding then if this happens, no, nobody ever does this in football apart from us apparently, every manager uses players from previous regimes and usually to good effect, so it isn't an issue.

Just sick of the deadweight football the excuses, not asking for every trophy, not asking to win every match, just simply to enjoy my football again and to see the club actually doing well.
A beautifull nonsense post. Your last paragraph literally contradicting what you wrote before. Jose is not a failure till date. But overwhelming expectation and scrutiny from every corner has made a impression that everything he did is failure.
 

The Man Himself

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Conte being suggested as a replacement ffs. Who has moaned constantly at owners, about his own players this season :wenger:

Fwiw, I can empathize with those who think our football is not up to the mark and needs to improve but who also agree that sacking manager is not the solution. I can't take those calling for "Jose out" seriously. It is not that the top managers are lining up outside OT for job. Just cool down, relax let's see how FA cup campaign and remaining matches go. Mourinho will get funds to invest and I believe he will further improve us. Constant moaning and negativity does no good.
 

Abhinav

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For all the people who want him out despite us winning 2 trophies in first season and sitting in 2nd for the majority of the 2nd season, how much time will you give the new managerial appointment? What will be the metrics you will judge him by? Is it going to the intagible beautiful football which only certain fans get to judge and decide? Or is it going to be performance metrics that Jose and others are being judged on by the board? And till when are we going to continue this managerial merry-go-round?
 

RG 11

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Positives:
  1. We're in second 4 points clear of third with eight games to go .We have been nowhere near this position post Ferguson.
  2. Most seasons we would've been close to a title challenge at this stage. City have just been phenomenal.
  3. He's won a trophy in his first season and we could still win the FA cup and should finish second in the league which wouldn't be earth shattering but shows clear signs of progress and a decent season.
  4. He's won loads before which suggests he knows what he's doing even if at times he loses it and most people hate his approach.
  5. He's cleared a lot of Deadwood from the team. We had some absolutely horrible players left behind by LVG and the squad is of much higher quality but still lacks in areas and inconsistent.
Negatives:
  1. Dire football.
  2. Obsession with certain players like Fellaini.
  3. Prone to meltdowns.
  4. Needs a lot of money to get anything done.
Overall I feel the Sevilla loss sucks but it's not the end of the world. We've had some cup completion shockers under Fergie too (Leeds round 3 FA cup, going out in group stage against Basel etc). I can see clear progress compared to every season post Fergie.

It would be extremely premature to sack him at the end of the season especially if we do finish second. We have a good core of players and a good transfer window should have us right up there with City. We'll never get super entertaining football under him though.

I think next season he has to challenge for the title and at least make CL quarters or he's out. But till then I don't see a new manager coming in and immediately do better so I'd rather stick with him.
 
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NikSab

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The United way is massively overrated. The last time I watched United play football the United way was in 2009-10 season. Sure the manager has man up to his mistakes but I still enjoy United beating Chelsea and Liverpool at home playing counter attacking football rather than playing good football and getting no results at all. 2nd is a massive improvement over last season and in major parts minus of big games except for Huddersfield and Basel, we have improved leaps and bounds over the previous 5 years. The manager is not going to get sacked for getting us our best league position in 5 years as much as the moaners want that. Yes if we play like the Sevilla game the next season RO16, then the eyebrows will and should be raised. But after having the best league record in 2018, some people who want the manager to be sacked are just moaners and nothing can make them happy. We are on course to finish with 80 plus points with 3rd highest goals scored and 2nd least conceded. That shows consistency rather than a one off vs Sevilla which was atrocious and the manager got wrong. Had Fella taken his chance that day, things might have been completely different .
 

vangagal

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I have two schools of thought about the subject

Firstly, does JM deserve to be sacked? The honest answer is probably not No. Any manager who has won two trophies in the last 12 months and followed that up by improving the teams league standing, doesn't deserve to be sacked.

However, I don't like the guy. I don't like his style of management. The fact he played Fellaini against Sevilla and decided to play hoof ball to him and Lukaku from the outset told me whilst disappointed me didn't surprise me anymore. Style seems to be lacking, theres no transitional fluidity to our play. He has accommodated Sanchez and our two most creative players in Martial & Pogba are suffering as a result, for example Martial was player of the month prior to the Sanchez signing but can't recall him starting on the left since he arrived. I am not criticising the Sanchez signing(it was an opportunity to bring in a quality player and weaken a rival at the same time) but the TEAM needed a CM, this was priority at the time and still is.

SBC was right about JM, he makes it all about himself, and whilst SAF carried the burden of the Glazer debt for many years, JM criticises the club for not giving him an open chequebook, moaning at every opportunity about not competing with City but yet spends £x00m's of pounds on signings with Lindelof the worst signing in recent memory.

I don't like how the clubs run at the moment, I don't like the clubs transfer policy and whilst at Old Trafford tomorrow, I will be cheering on the reds not because Jose's got us playing the way we should but in spite of the way Jose's got us playing...
And SBC also SAF got it damn right about Moyes right? Their preferrence manager and belove friend. Oh the irony. Lindelof not even close to be the worst signing.
You acknowledge you hate him, everything he did you will hate it no matter what because it doesnt matter anymore.
 

SwansonsTache

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Doubts are starting to sneak in on my part. I just don't think he got it in him anymore. Still a great organizer mind you, but I don't think our attack will ever click under him.

At the same time I have no idea who we could get in who would be better. It is slim pickings out there as far as managers goes.
 

Varun

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Doubts are starting to sneak in on my part. I just don't think he got it in him anymore. Still a great organizer mind you, but I don't think our attack will ever click under him.

At the same time I have no idea who we could get in who would be better. It is slim pickings out there as far as managers goes.
Yep, as much as I'd like to see what a Sarri or a Jardim can do with this squad, there's no question it'd be a gamble.
 

beingshe7don

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Same. I can accept a few bad results but the style of play is horrendous. Our players have no idea what they're doing in the final third. It has been the same for years though.

I don't think he should be sacked immediately but we should start planning to replace him as it's likely he will try and engineer his own exit before it comes to that.
This post is short and hits the nail on the head. We need someone who can motivate players and promote youth as well as play entertaining football. Tuchel is that guy.

http://outsideoftheboot.com/2015/07/24/tactical-philosophy-thomas-tuchel/
 

Raoul

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Doubts are starting to sneak in on my part. I just don't think he got it in him anymore. Still a great organizer mind you, but I don't think our attack will ever click under him.

At the same time I have no idea who we could get in who would be better. It is slim pickings out there as far as managers goes.
The job is too big for a vast majority of managers imo. The size of the club, the commercial obligations, the global fan base still to a degree living with the expectations of the past. All of that will make it very difficult for any manager here.
 

Jaap

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I don’t think Mourinho would be getting the same amount criticism if he succeeded Fergie in 2013 & Pep wasn’t running away with the League.
The standards are pretty high, especially given the way City play & because we had to endure those torturous year(s) under Moyes & van Gaal.

There is, however, no way anyone could defend Mourinho‘s style of play. Dire, boring, unadventurous.
We have so many good players, but the way he‘s set us up is so disappointing.
 

SwansonsTache

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Yep, as much as I'd like to see what a Sarri or a Jardim can do with this squad, there's no question it'd be a gamble.
Sarri would mean starting on scratch again, since his style is the polar opposite of Jose's. I have no idea about Jardim's style.

The job is too big for a vast majority of managers imo. The size of the club, the commercial obligations, the global fan base still to a degree living with the expectations of the past. All of that will make it very difficult for any manager here.
A manager that got this squad playing to their full potential and had a clear vision would go a long way. At this point in time I don't see where Jose want to take us, except for making us tough to play against.
 

Varun

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Sarri would mean starting on scratch again, since his style is the polar opposite of Jose's. I have no idea about Jardim's style.



A manager that got this squad playing to their full potential and had a clear vision would go a long way. At this point in time I don't see where Jose want to take us, except for making us tough to play against.
Not really, Sarri is not a manager that demands players X, Y, Z to implement his style. There's a famous quote of his where he says he just "gets on with it" wrt the players he's given and believes in coaching them. That said, think he's used to working in a DoF model so identifying who to get could be a shared responsibility. Not sure if he's worked all on his own in this regard in earlier jobs mind.
 

Raoul

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Sarri would mean starting on scratch again, since his style is the polar opposite of Jose's. I have no idea about Jardim's style.



A manager that got this squad playing to their full potential and had a clear vision would go a long way. At this point in time I don't see where Jose want's to take us, except for making us tough to play against.
Another problem is that we seem to be acquiring players who view coming to United as a chance to make massive wages. The likes of Zlatan, Pogba, Alexis et al. We are attracting players who come here as a business decision rather than out of passion.
 

SwansonsTache

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Another problem is that we seem to be acquiring players who view coming to United as a chance to make massive wages. The likes of Zlatan, Pogba, Alexis et al. We are attracting players who come here as a business decision rather than out of passion.
That is due to the football being played and us not really being competitive the last few years. If the team clicked and we got the results then the joy of playing for us would follow. It is much more glamorous to play for a United in City's position than it is to play for City.

We've had to compensate for our lacking competitiveness with wages. When Pogba came he was the hottest item on the market, he actually had no business joining an EL team who had struggled since SAF left. Same with Sanchez, he is in the twillight of his career and are good enough to play for title winners.
 

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The job is too big for a vast majority of managers imo. The size of the club, the commercial obligations, the global fan base still to a degree living with the expectations of the past. All of that will make it very difficult for any manager here.
I agree. So many people underestimate how big United job truly is.
 

Varun

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Another problem is that we seem to be acquiring players who view coming to United as a chance to make massive wages. The likes of Zlatan, Pogba, Alexis et al. We are attracting players who come here as a business decision rather than out of passion.
Well, there are multiple reasons for it.

As @swansontache said, we haven't been at the top of late and players want a) best chance at winning things and b) $. We're having to compensate for falling short on a) by going the extra mile on b).

Also, the decline in the quality England has produced in the current batch is a big factor. Utd are unlikely to be the biggest pull for players from Germany, Spain, France, South America etc but that's where the cream is atm. So again, we gotta pay extra to tilt the deal in our favour.

In any case, I don't see it as that big an issue unless we pay this money to get players who are evidently over the hill just looking for a last pay cheque. As long as we get players at their prime, its not a problem. The likes of City, PSG etc pull players just for the money and still perform at a high level. Its not necessary that one loves the club to perform and as long as they do, I dont think fans give a feck either. A good to have really, not a must have.
 

Varun

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I agree. So many people underestimate how big United job truly is.
Its a problem, not something to be proud of. We need to do better as a club so that our managers manage the team, not the entire club.
 

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Not sure if i agree with that bit that we have to pay more because we haven't won much lately. We've won a couple of semi-big trophies in the FA Cup and the Europa and its not like we've been mid table to where no one would come here unless we bribed them with exorbitant wages. The problem started when we gave Wayne his big wages then followed up with Schweinsteiger. That set the trend for the current three an it will only get worse if we want big name players as they will simply point to Ibra, Pogba, and Alexis' wages prior to agreeing a move.
 

shield

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He deserves to get to the end of the season, but at that point a mutual termination would be beneficial for both parties I believe, let me explain why.

After LVG nobody thought the football could get any worse, we won the FA Cup, Mourinho comes in, makes, what we think at the time some solid investments, particularly Pogba, everyone's excited to see the boy wonder come home, we've all seen what level he played to at Juventus after all. First season isn't bad, it isn't great but there is progress, good for a first season, adding a couple of, whilst not particularly big, but decent, trophies along the way and bringing us back into the CL again, all setup for Mourinho's signature second season where he kicks on. Bearing in mind when he started he was laying down the expectations for everyone of winning the league in the 2nd/3rd season. More signings in the summer, great, decent start to the season, and then what, negativity, route one long ball tactics, stagnation, seemingly falling outs with players publicly, signings aren't what we expected, they aren't performing to the level they were before they joined us, Mkhitaryan got swapped and Sanchez has been no better, we got embarassingly knocked out by a poor team in the CL, only chance of a trophy is FA Cup but even that isn't guaranteed. Only improvement is the league position really, but De Gea has dug us out of a hole in a few matches and the teams around us shouldn't of been so poor in as many matches as they have been this season.

At the end of the day i don't see progression from last season, if anything i see stagnation at best, slightly backwards at worst. It's all there for everyone to see on the pitch, i can't tell if there just isn't any coaching being applied, particularly in an attacking sense, or if the players just aren't responding to Mourinho's method anymore, i can't say I blame them when i'm looking at all our rivals play beautiful football and they are forced to play this tosh, must be soul wrenching at times.

People will say well he needs more money! Man City have spent loads! Okay? So? This is squad isn't relegation fodder and it's certainly good enough to be beating Sevilla, we've lost and played negative crap against a lot of teams with half the squad value or ours and much less investment, yet apparently the excuse is not enough money spent? Nobody is expecting champagne Man City football and barnstorming league runs just yet, but i refuse to believe the reason he's making the team play the way it is is because he thinks the squad is crap, which, lets be honest if he believes that, is partially his fault at this point anyway, a lot of money and very few players, most of which aren't performing to the standards they've set previously, and yet he's earned the trust to get another few hundred million in the summer apparently. What happens when he spends another load of money and he's still nowhere near the title next season? Let's throw more money at it again somethings bound to change sooner or later!

My preferential idea for the summer would be for Woodward and the board to wake up and stop thinking short term, learn about the actual game of football, bring in a DOF that will stop the mess of these post Fergie years from ever happening to us ever again, pair them up with Ribalta, bring in a young progressive coach (Tuchel, Jardim) that actually gets the fans excited with a modern approach to football that will bring out the best in the young exciting attacking options we have whilst we still have them and they haven't been traded away for workhorses or scapegoated to the point of wanting out. Oh and before people say oh well its gonna be another 3 years of rebuilding then if this happens, no, nobody ever does this in football apart from us apparently, every manager uses players from previous regimes and usually to good effect, so it isn't an issue.

Just sick of the deadweight football the excuses, not asking for every trophy, not asking to win every match, just simply to enjoy my football again and to see the club actually doing well.
Good Post.

We need to realise that, with money always being spent, there will obviously be some progress. But I don't think that can be attributed to Mourinho.

Like, Lukaku's form in the last few matches. He has been playing well. But I get the feeling that Lukau's form is just down to him alone. There is nothing there in Mourinho's tactics and team setup which has helped him. He is still as isolated as he was earlier, still lacking support with most of our player parked deep in our half, even against mediocre teams like Sevilla and Huddersfield. It is just that Lukaku has learnt to grit it out and adjust.

After a year, Mourinho still does not know where to play his players, which players he can trust, how to set the team up and we are not really progressing. We just take each match as it is. So, if Martial is performing well, we don't look to build up on it. We take the positive result , discard any progress and try a new approach in the next match depending on the opposition. Rashford plays well, lets change his position. Lingard is winning matches, but lets rotate him. Mata is playing well, lets bench him. Pogba ??? I don't even know what the plan is or will be with him.

I mean, even with LVG, we could clearly see what he was doing, and even toward the end we had a clear indication of a team. It was Martial on the left, Rashford ahead and Lingard on the right/middle. The football was not very good, and he had to go, but there was still an earnestness to create something, to play in a certain way (even though it was never going to work out).

When I see us play today, I just feel that we don't have any strategy at all. Players look like they are improvising, instead of knowing what to do. The base line is just, get a goal somehow and defend. There is so much fear that the opposition will hurt us, that we take very few risks. We rarely push for more goals if we are leading because the job is done, we just need to make sure the opposition does not score. Modern players don't' thrive in such a system and it not the way to play to get the best out of them.

We will never be a complete failure like Moyes under Mourinho. However, I don't think we will be able to achieve any really success too.
 

In Rainbows

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I admit I never really cared for Mourinho, because I understood he wouldn't bring us entertaining football and after Moyes and LVG I really wanted to enjoy the football on display again. However, at the time he was hired I thought it made sense.

Qualities of Mou I accepted/expected:
1. He's not going to give us entertaining football 24/7. He's defensive, but his teams are usually great at countering so we should still enjoy goals and those times we counter can be entertaining.
2. He's going to win trophies for United or at the very least get United to actually compete for the biggest trophies. He usually wins in his 2nd season.

So in my view, I felt we sacrificed entertaining football for the right reasons. Above all, we needed to get back on track to compete for the biggest trophies. Mou usually won in his second second. He falls out in his 3rd season. Has this come true? No. He has not gotten us to even compete for the biggest trophies in 2 seasons. There's a difference between getting second, but ultimately losing the title and being out of the title race within 2-3 months of the season. We're second, but really weren't close to competing like in 2010 and 2012. That is why 2nd to me is meaningless. We couldn't even go down fighting against one of the top European clubs. We wen't down rather pathetically to Sevilla.

Fine. I'm willing to be patient. If he can show us #1 quality, then I can be patient for #2 quality that I expected from Mou. This is why I want him gone. Our attack looks so disfunctional, that I cannot have faith in him to bring us a title or to get us competing for the biggest trophies. I just can't. Everyone looks clueless in attack much like under Moyes and LVG. I don't see us countering like his teams in the past did. I have accepted that his football won't be that entertaining compared to say Klopp or Pep. I'm not asking him to get United to be that entertaining in attack. I'm merely asking for United to look like they have chemistry and know what they're doing. If he can get United to play like that, but keep his pragmatism then I believe he will eventually get United to compete for the biggest titles.

And I don't see it. We've improved in terms of results, but I just don't see any sign United will eventually compete for the biggest titles. In other words, I think he is close to achieving all he can with United in terms of growth.

Conte is going through all this drama with his players and the board this season, and Wenger has got Arsenal playing even worst than in the past 5-6 years. Liverpool aren't exactly great and I believe Spurs have been punching above their weight due to all the crisis happening at so many of PL's top clubs. United spend much more than them. United, City, and Chelsea clearly have spent the most money in the past few years. So again, I don't value 2nd all that great. I just think he's better than the turds that were LVG and Moyes.

If I had the choice I would choose Tuchel. He had a falling out with Watzke at Dortmund and I don't think that happens with Woodward. He also will operate under a much bigger budget than Dortmund or the budget Liverpool operate under. He will get United to play more entertaining and he is a manager who gives youth a chance.
 
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Varun

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Not sure if i agree with that bit that we have to pay more because we haven't won much lately. We've won a couple of semi-big trophies in the FA Cup and the Europa and its not like we've been mid table to where no one would come here unless we bribed them with exorbitant wages. The problem started when we gave Wayne his big wages then followed up with Schweinsteiger. That set the trend for the current three an it will only get worse if we want big name players as they will simply point to Ibra, Pogba, and Alexis' wages prior to agreeing a move.
Talking about the cream of the crop players here. Why would a top player who's not affiliated to us in any way pick us over say Real, Barca, Bayern etc? They are clubs of the same stature who offer a better chance of trophies. And yes, once you pay top whack, you set a precedent. Agree with you.
 

Raoul

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Talking about the cream of the crop players here. Why would a top player who's not affiliated to us in any way pick us over say Real, Barca, Bayern etc? They are clubs of the same stature who offer a better chance of trophies. And yes, once you pay top whack, you set a precedent. Agree with you.
They would pick us because of the club. Most players today grew up with United being one of the world's biggest club who consistently won trophies. It obviously depends one where a player is from - most South Americans would obviously choose one of the Spanish clubs.
 

Varun

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They would pick us because of the club. Most players today grew up with United being one of the world's biggest club who consistently won trophies. It obviously depends one where a player is from - most South Americans would obviously choose one of the Spanish clubs.
Yes but the clubs I mentioned are as big if not bigger. If they grew up as a fan, sure, there's an affinity but if they grew up seeing us as a successful club, its no different to the other 3 and they have the advantage of being at a much better place currently.
 

haram

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Good Post.

We need to realise that, with money always being spent, there will obviously be some progress. But I don't think that can be attributed to Mourinho.

Like, Lukaku's form in the last few matches. He has been playing well. But I get the feeling that Lukau's form is just down to him alone. There is nothing there in Mourinho's tactics and team setup which has helped him. He is still as isolated as he was earlier, still lacking support with most of our player parked deep in our half, even against mediocre teams like Sevilla and Huddersfield. It is just that Lukaku has learnt to grit it out and adjust.

After a year, Mourinho still does not know where to play his players, which players he can trust, how to set the team up and we are not really progressing. We just take each match as it is. So, if Martial is performing well, we don't look to build up on it. We take the positive result , discard any progress and try a new approach in the next match depending on the opposition. Rashford plays well, lets change his position. Lingard is winning matches, but lets rotate him. Mata is playing well, lets bench him. Pogba ??? I don't even know what the plan is or will be with him.

I mean, even with LVG, we could clearly see what he was doing, and even toward the end we had a clear indication of a team. It was Martial on the left, Rashford ahead and Lingard on the right/middle. The football was not very good, and he had to go, but there was still an earnestness to create something, to play in a certain way (even though it was never going to work out).

When I see us play today, I just feel that we don't have any strategy at all. Players look like they are improvising, instead of knowing what to do. The base line is just, get a goal somehow and defend. There is so much fear that the opposition will hurt us, that we take very few risks. We rarely push for more goals if we are leading because the job is done, we just need to make sure the opposition does not score. Modern players don't' thrive in such a system and it not the way to play to get the best out of them.

We will never be a complete failure like Moyes under Mourinho. However, I don't think we will be able to achieve any really success too.
Explain the difference between our home form last year, and our home form this year then. If there is no progress or strategy like you claim.

I can remember VERY well people were dying for Rashford to play on the right when Mourinho had a plan with Mata on the right all along. How we use Mata and Lingard is one of the reasons for the turn in our home form.

Of course Lukaku’s improvement has nothing to do with the manager. Of course. Anything good that happens is not down to the manager. Of course.
 

Raoul

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Yes but the clubs I mentioned are as big if not bigger. If they grew up as a fan, sure, there's an affinity but if they grew up seeing us as a successful club, its no different to the other 3 and they have the advantage of being at a much better place currently.
Bayern certainly aren't bigger in terms of fan base or money. Ultimately, its a combination of many things that attracts players. Wages, trophies, specific personalities at the club who they may like to play with, who the manager is etc.
 

Varun

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Bayern certainly aren't bigger in terms of fan base or money. Ultimately, its a combination of many things that attracts players. Wages, trophies, specific personalities at the club who they may like to play with, who the manager is etc.
Yes and when you fall short on one aspect, you need to overcompensate on the others. We are lagging behind in terms of recent success.
 

Raoul

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Yes and when you fall short on one aspect, you need to overcompensate on the others. We are lagging behind in terms of recent success.
I don't think you do at all. Its not like we haven't won the league since the late 80s or something. We have won the league and FA Cup and Europa over the past five years and been in 3 CL finals over the past decade. I seriously doubt players are saying "Pay me 30% more because you haven't won anything lately".
 

togg

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The job is too big for a vast majority of managers imo. The size of the club, the commercial obligations, the global fan base still to a degree living with the expectations of the past. All of that will make it very difficult for any manager here.
Totally agree. In fact, I think if one could sit with Mourinho privately and ask him, he'd say 'bloody hell this was a much bigger job than I imagined". I don't think he truly understood the depth of the past ingrained at the club. I just think Ferguson's legacy is as much a milestone around any new managers neck as it was when United hadn't won the league for decades. Ferguson cracked that one and I still believe Mourinho could be the guy who could pull us back up, albeit roughly. But yes, I think any decent manager would find it tough, even bloody Pep!
 

Acole9

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He deserves to get to the end of the season, but at that point a mutual termination would be beneficial for both parties I believe, let me explain why.

After LVG nobody thought the football could get any worse, we won the FA Cup, Mourinho comes in, makes, what we think at the time some solid investments, particularly Pogba, everyone's excited to see the boy wonder come home, we've all seen what level he played to at Juventus after all. First season isn't bad, it isn't great but there is progress, good for a first season, adding a couple of, whilst not particularly big, but decent, trophies along the way and bringing us back into the CL again, all setup for Mourinho's signature second season where he kicks on. Bearing in mind when he started he was laying down the expectations for everyone of winning the league in the 2nd/3rd season. More signings in the summer, great, decent start to the season, and then what, negativity, route one long ball tactics, stagnation, seemingly falling outs with players publicly, signings aren't what we expected, they aren't performing to the level they were before they joined us, Mkhitaryan got swapped and Sanchez has been no better, we got embarassingly knocked out by a poor team in the CL, only chance of a trophy is FA Cup but even that isn't guaranteed. Only improvement is the league position really, but De Gea has dug us out of a hole in a few matches and the teams around us shouldn't of been so poor in as many matches as they have been this season.

At the end of the day i don't see progression from last season, if anything i see stagnation at best, slightly backwards at worst. It's all there for everyone to see on the pitch, i can't tell if there just isn't any coaching being applied, particularly in an attacking sense, or if the players just aren't responding to Mourinho's method anymore, i can't say I blame them when i'm looking at all our rivals play beautiful football and they are forced to play this tosh, must be soul wrenching at times.

People will say well he needs more money! Man City have spent loads! Okay? So? This is squad isn't relegation fodder and it's certainly good enough to be beating Sevilla, we've lost and played negative crap against a lot of teams with half the squad value or ours and much less investment, yet apparently the excuse is not enough money spent? Nobody is expecting champagne Man City football and barnstorming league runs just yet, but i refuse to believe the reason he's making the team play the way it is is because he thinks the squad is crap, which, lets be honest if he believes that, is partially his fault at this point anyway, a lot of money and very few players, most of which aren't performing to the standards they've set previously, and yet he's earned the trust to get another few hundred million in the summer apparently. What happens when he spends another load of money and he's still nowhere near the title next season? Let's throw more money at it again somethings bound to change sooner or later!

My preferential idea for the summer would be for Woodward and the board to wake up and stop thinking short term, learn about the actual game of football, bring in a DOF that will stop the mess of these post Fergie years from ever happening to us ever again, pair them up with Ribalta, bring in a young progressive coach (Tuchel, Jardim) that actually gets the fans excited with a modern approach to football that will bring out the best in the young exciting attacking options we have whilst we still have them and they haven't been traded away for workhorses or scapegoated to the point of wanting out. Oh and before people say oh well its gonna be another 3 years of rebuilding then if this happens, no, nobody ever does this in football apart from us apparently, every manager uses players from previous regimes and usually to good effect, so it isn't an issue.

Just sick of the deadweight football the excuses, not asking for every trophy, not asking to win every match, just simply to enjoy my football again and to see the club actually doing well.
The same Tuchel who got sacked from Dortmund? No thanks.