Why would a top player signing for us now care about the CL finals or the leagues we won under Sir Alex? The United we are now doesnt a candle to the United we were then and we are obviously a club that needs work to get back to the top. As we cannot offer the same chance of winning trophies atm, why would a player pick us over Real, Barca, Bayern if we cannot surpass them elsewhere? Given these clubs are as big as us, the easiest thing to differentiate us with is the pay package.
Can anyone who thinks we should have an overhaul or sack Mourinho post here please and explain why?
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Getting a new manager doesn't necessarily have to be followed by an overhaul. When a manager comes in they have a budget, they know what changes they can afford for the squad, they can then adapt tactics to fit accordingly. Mouriniho hasn't adapted, Mouriniho has become lazy, he has it all figured out so it's never his fault. He should be sacked
They wouldn't care about the previous trophies but they would care that this is the same club that routinely wins trophies, has higher wages than anyone else, and has a bit of history behind it. The likes of Zlatan, Pogba, Alexis and De Gea could easily have gone elsewhere but opted to come/stay here.
Zlatan and Alexis didn't have the choice of joining a Real/Barca/Bayern. De Gea did and almost moved. Pogba is unique in that he shares a history with us.
I'm not sure what we're arguing about at this point
. You mentioned we pay higher wages than anyone else and that's precisely what I'm saying is our forte over the 3 other clubs at the moment because we're equals in history/stature and they are ahead when it comes to chances of winning trophies.He had a falling out with Watzke if my memory is correct. He reached 2nd and 3rd in his two seasons there. Difference is at United he will have much more backing financially.
And we'll play entertaining football
Tuchel did fall out with Watzke.
I'm sure @Sphaero can share more detail regarding that.
I imagine he'd be fine here, but it's obviously a risk(as everyone would be tbh).
I'm sure @Sphaero can share more detail regarding that.
I imagine he'd be fine here, but it's obviously a risk(as everyone would be tbh).
Quite why people think Jose will hang around with us any longer than he has at previous clubs is beyond me, his sell by date is about three years, either through his own doing, or his employers.
We are now past the half way point with this, and he isn't going to win us the title, or entertain us in not doing this, so what's the point in continuing, might as well try for the fourth time to get it right post Fergie.
We are now past the half way point with this, and he isn't going to win us the title, or entertain us in not doing this, so what's the point in continuing, might as well try for the fourth time to get it right post Fergie.
Have always been a big fan of Mourinho as a manager but have to admit that this is also exactly where I am now @Adisa.
I do, as you said yourself, we can't become such a sacking club that we bin a manager that has won trophies and improved his league position massively. We give him more time and "hope" that a couple of top class fullbacks and another midfielder will help him take this side onto the next level. And then at the end of next season we re-evaluate.
Moyes, LVG, Mourinho... so far it feels we have tried different ways of fixing the post SAF problem so I have zero confidence that say Simone would suddenly come in and be the answer. The answer has to be to allow Mourinho time to keep improving.
Care to elaborate why?
I think among the "defensive" coaches, he is the best among the lot. If we are going to challenge City and the rest, there's no point in getting coaches that are similar to theirs since the best "attacking" coaches are already taken the rest.
Not sure of your point to be honest, not sure what Moyes has got to do with JM. The point is does he deserved to be sacked NO, is he right for United NO in my opinion because he will always put himself above the club and SAF always put the club first even when we were in loads of debt. You are right in a way I just cant take to him
I don't think anyone needs to elaborate. Right now the proof is right in front of your eyes and only someone with total blind faith can say that they 100% believe Mourinho can take a team to that Barca, Bayern, City level.
Well we hired a sacked manager from a rival
Had Celta Vigo taken their chance in OT last season, we won't be having this conversation. My point? Ifs and buts mean nothing.
To be fair, we hired a a guy with an outrageous honours list. Tuchel has won one DFB-Pokal cup.Well we hired a sacked manager from a rival
The manager he replaced had an outrageous honors list no? History means nothing really otherwise LvG should still be here...
All three teams who have been trounce by counter attacking team. I think most people think playing attacking football equals trophies. If the premise of your argument is based on that, sorry to say it but you are wrong.
Mourinho won the Premier League just 2 seasons before we hired him, but that aint that point, the point is that Tuchel has won feck all of note in his career.
I believe that just like players, managers get older and they go past their peak into a decline. It's so clear with Wenger. Other examples are Capelo, Scolari, Del Bosce and Ancelotti to an extent. I feel Mourinho follows that pattern and no longer is the mastermind he once used to be.
He helped the club immensely. He gave us stability, his name attracted top players and helped us keep other top players. He improved the spirit and brought back competition for places. Managed to ship out some really dead wood.
But in my opinion he's past it. He's at the same level Arsenal were during 2008-2014.
He would keep us in the top 4, knockout rounds of CL and occasional domestic cup.
I don't see us winning anything more than that.
If we are a club, striving to dominate throughout Europe, we should be looking for an upgrade.
Get rid of the old 600 SEL and look for a latest model 63 AMG.
He helped the club immensely. He gave us stability, his name attracted top players and helped us keep other top players. He improved the spirit and brought back competition for places. Managed to ship out some really dead wood.
But in my opinion he's past it. He's at the same level Arsenal were during 2008-2014.
He would keep us in the top 4, knockout rounds of CL and occasional domestic cup.
I don't see us winning anything more than that.
If we are a club, striving to dominate throughout Europe, we should be looking for an upgrade.
Get rid of the old 600 SEL and look for a latest model 63 AMG.
He got sacked partially because of the bus attack and he apparently has a temper. His football was good and he had good results.
Think the difference is that all those other teams clearly showed chemistry in attack. We look clueless.
I'm not sure where to start replying to this. Every side in history has been on the end of a hiding at some point.
And fwiw, the Bayern team that annihilated Barca were one of my favourite non-United sides ever. That team was so slick in attack and the transitions were something to be in awe of.
Yep. That Bayern team was my favorite. They could dominate possession and at the same time (depending on the opponent) could just counter attack exactly how you described the Barca match.
I read an article about how Jose prefers not to hand hold the attacking players but instead construct training drills to force the players to think for themselves. I think that's a double edge sword considering it will work wonders if the players are thinkers and are really desperate to improve themselves. Sadly, is a long and sometimes frustrating process. I do not know how's the dialogue between players and Jose but based on my own experience working with a coach, he always had me thinking of ways to overcome my own weaknesses.
I agree. So why are we discounting Jose's methodologies considering he has won a lot? Some of the supposedly better managers have won less but are heralded as messiahs because they play eye candy football. I think our current biggest weakness is that our transitioning is so weak.
Yup, and that's how you beat Guardiola in the long run. Build a team comfortable dominating possession that can also transition to blistering counter attacking football.
Do I have faith that Mourinho can build a side as good as that Bayern one, right now, no. Do I think he deserves more time to try? Yes, definitely. I think we'll already start looking a different side with two proper top class full backs.
We're not, you're just creating your own straw-man.
Myself and a couple of other posters, after years of watching Mourinho and especially this season at United, just don't have the blind faith that he can build a Pep-buster team like that Bayern side.
It's difficult because I have no idea who the club in that situation can go for and who's available. I do hope we are looking and sounding out candidates though.
100% agree with this.
We are saying the same thing.
Wow, threading such a thin line but then turns it around by blind faith. You're just standing on the fence. You previously said that you do not believe he is capable of turning things round to bring us to the level of Barca et al. When pressed, you say he might be able to do so but does not have the "blind faith" that some do. If you do not believe he is capable, you are basically discounting his methods since he came here to win.
Mourinho is currently our best bet to beat Pep.
Vintage United under Fergie basically. His teams could quite often do both and would.
I loath to call what Jose does as counter attacking football, and when people compare it to Fergie it’s cringe as they are nothing alike. When Fergies team countered they went full throttle at a team and they flew forward including our fullbacks. We also didn’t sit as deep, and the wide men didn’t become fullbacks. For me this isn’t a counter attacking team at all or if it is supposed to be it’s poor at it.
I would also say Jose’s comments on Chelsea and Conte last year were weird as he was complaining about how people enjoy their counter attacking football but when he does it they call him boring and he doesn’t get lauded like Conte was. To me that said a lot about himself and that he can’t see the difference between that form of countering and what he does. Watching him recently has really had me asking how on earth has he been so successful through out his career.
Meh, I had zero confidence in SAF bettering Guardiola either, he learned nothing from that first final.
So by your logic we shouldn't of got Mourinho then who had just been sacked by Chelsea for leaving them towards the bottom half of the table. Tuchel wasn't sacked because of reasons on the pitch and they weren't for ones that would be particularly detrimental to this club either.
There's that straw man again. Here's the quote I agreed with:
This discussion is going nowhere with your straw man, so leave it be. I actually agree with you that Mourinho is our best bet, just read any of my previous posts.
Being our best bet however means nothing when it comes to having "faith" in him taking us to the level to challenge City and other top clubs, judging by his years since leaving Madrid and his time here, I no longer having complete faith in his tactics taking us right to the top.
I hope I'm wrong because I really like Mourinho, and I had full faith in him being the right man to do it when he took over in 2016.
It was all luck.
No doubt.
Thread keeps delivering.
You need a big overhaul
Start by selling Pogba to real madrid
Then you can do what you want honestly
(You need a CM or two, a CB and the FBs. Sign good ones and you'll be good)
Start by selling Pogba to real madrid
Then you can do what you want honestly
(You need a CM or two, a CB and the FBs. Sign good ones and you'll be good)
Can we have Varane, Asensio and Kroos then? Maybe throw in Isco for free?You need a big overhaul
Start by selling Pogba to real madrid
Then you can do what you want honestly
(You need a CM or two, a CB and the FBs. Sign good ones and you'll be good)
He will spend another 200 mil this summer and I bet we will keep watching that same dreadful football and then hear that same ridiculous excuses next season. I hope I'm wrong.