Can anyone's view on ETH change this season?

[VP89]

I wanted to ask this question to both camps:
Those for Ten Hag - what would need to happen this season for you to prefer his exit?
Those against Ten Hag - is there anything that can be salvaged this season for you to think he might be able to turn it around for us?

This is not designed to turn into an us vs them situation among posters entrenched in either side. It's more gauging what's needed for sentiment to change on both sides.

For me, I'm still backing our manager but I would probably stop trusting him & be indifferent to part ways if we exited the FA Cup to a team we should really beat + fell out of CL places by season's end. His CL disaster, poor transfer windows and open games in the first third of the season has made me question him for sure, but I want to give him a chance to turn it around in the second half. By turn it around though, I want results and wouldn't really hang my hat on injuries or circumstance any further - doubt even the staunchest defender of Ten Hag can argue with a whole season of underperformance.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Pretty sure he’ll change most peoples minds if he gets a full squad back in January and one or two signings (be on loan or not) and shows some real quality for the next 3 to 4 months.

 

[PSV]

Yeah, we could still win the league, but that would take something extraordinary.

FA Cup won't turn any heads.

Would still ditch with a scrappy top four/five.

 

[Rood]

I'd give him until the end of the season but would need a vast improvement in results (Top5 or close) and/or a cup final run to back him for another season

To move towards wanting him sacked immediately it would be a run of results that put us bottom half of the table with no chance of Europe

 

[RedSky]

For me, it's nothing about results. It's all about performances and seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. So a clear upturn in our attack with more structure in our play. That should produce better results anyway.

If we continue to plod along barely being able to score and our defense leaking goals in then it doesn't matter if he flukes the FA Cup.

 

[TrailMonkey]

Performances for me are more important than results for the rest of the season. We’ve been horrific since the cup win and I blame both ETH and the players. Also not a fan of his post-match pressers - he seems to perceive shit performances as good which I really don’t get.

 

[Reapersoul20]

Top four with improved, attacking performances would surely convince the masses.

 

[AaronRedDevil]

I just can't see it. The way we play isn't working and the players haven't a clue how to attack. So many easy decisions and they don't make it. Deciding to take on 3 defenders, lose ball. Ad infinitum. If they sort out the attack. Then something can change.

 

[RedIan]

Not sure we needed a 7th ETH thread on page 1 - but my view is, i will judge him when everyones fit and available.
However if we loose to wigan, he may be in jeopardy.

 

[GMoore23]

Even with a fully fit squad, he runs certain players into the ground. This combined with his training methods is leaving us in a constant injury crisis.

His tactics are also terrible and he has us playing sole destroying football even when the likes of Martinez and Casemiro were available at the start of the season.

Myself and quite a few others on here had pointed out even in pre season, that his tactics were woeful and that we'd possibly be in for a very rough season.

I can't see how he turns it around.

 

[GBBQ]

Honestly at this stage I want to see United play consistent football with an identity and style that is evident no matter who is picked in the starting 11. If we have injuries we should still be playing the same way even if we lose.

Make the players fit the system and not the other way around.

I hope that the structural changes behind the scenes will lead to long term improvements. I’d happily take this season as a dud, sign bo players in January and finish outside the European places if it meant that we had experts assessing the qualities of our players and manager and came up with what is needed for next season where we can start afresh.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Anyone who answers no just shows an agenda. Of course those who think we should stick with him won’t think that if we lose a load more and vice versa those that want him gone will change their mind if we have a great start to this year.

 

[Revan]

I wanted to ask this question to both camps:
Those for Ten Hag - what would need to happen this season for you to prefer his exit?
Those against Ten Hag - is there anything that can be salvaged this season for you to think he might be able to turn it around for us?

This is not designed to turn into an us vs them situation among posters entrenched in either side. It's more gauging what's needed for sentiment to change on both sides.

For me, I'm still backing our manager but I would probably stop trusting him & be indifferent to part ways if we exited the FA Cup to a team we should really beat + fell out of CL places by season's end. His CL disaster, poor transfer windows and open games in the first third of the season has made me question him for sure, but I want to give him a chance to turn it around in the second half. By turn it around though, I want results and wouldn't really hang my hat on injuries or circumstance any further - doubt even the staunchest defender of Ten Hag can argue with a whole season of underperformance.

Essentially do all of the following:

- Go back to that form we had last season between the world cup and the mickey cup final. But do it this time for 5 months instead of two.
- Win at least a match by dominating another top team (City, Liverpool or Arsenal). Shouldn't be impossible cause two of those matches we have at home.
- Show that he can win a couple of difficult away matches against teams in the top half of the table (City, Chelsea, Aston Villa, Brighton).
- Finally start playing good football, essentially create lots of chances, and not be at the bottom of the table in almost every attacking stats (goals, xG, chances created, touches in the opposition box).
- By doing so, reach UCL (or get very close to reaching that).

Manage this and I would be happy for him to continue the next season. But not with him getting a new contract, unless shows further improvement in the next season.

I do not care much about FA Cup. Good if we win it, but it is essentially a bonus. The league and UCL are all that matter, and we already failed in one and are failing in the other.

 

[Hound Dog]

I am trying to image a Real or Bayern fan saying "what matters are the performances" into the fourth half-season of a manager's reign.

United need to become far more trigger happy, all the managers have been given too much time.

 

[Carl]

For me, it's nothing about results. It's all about performances and seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. So a clear upturn in our attack with more structure in our play. That should produce better results anyway.

If we continue to plod along barely being able to score and our defense leaking goals in then it doesn't matter if he flukes the FA Cup.

100% this. If we were playing well and losing then it could just be put down to injuries or trusting the process etc. But the football has been dreadful. Worse than anything served up consistently by any manager post Fergie.

 

[suheilsworld]

Still trust in him. Never lost faith. Hopefully the second half will see something building that carries us into the next season

 

[King7Eric]

I am in the camp that believes he should be kept on till the end of the season and then let go, using this intervening period to sort out our footballing structure and strategy.

The reason I want him gone is that he constantly alludes to the fact ( and evidence supports it) that he can only give great results if all the stars align for him. The injured players must be back, we must have the same routines again and again etc. Now such an ideal situation where we go without long term injuries is not realistic, no club has that.

So even if by some miracle everyone stays fit until the end of the season and we win all remaining 18 games, does that prove ETH can do the business when things go against him?

That's my biggest gripe with him. In his tenure so far he hasn't shown he can produce results when going gets tough. Wheb players get injured, players get sent off during a game, he is just not able to get results in spite of this. The greatest managers- SAF, Mourinho, Klopp etc were/are masters of getting consistent results in adverse circumstances. If ETH can somehow show he has that capability, then I'm all for him, but so far it hasn't been there.

In fact the time to show this has probably already passed. If he had managed to get us through the CL group and got better results in the league, even if we finished lower than last season I would still have confidence in him as he would have shown he can get results when things don't go our way. Because ultimately that's what you need to win titles, ability to get results under all circumstances.

 

[Scandi Red]

I'm on the fence because of the unprecedented injury situation. I have no idea what to expect when a team gets this unlucky with injuries. I haven't seen it before and therefore I have nothing to compare it with. The issue isn't just that most of our best players have been injured for most of the season. Even the backups have been injured a lot. This has made it impossible to field a relatively consistent starting XI. So here's where I'm at:

If we start playing well once the injury crisis is resolved, then it kind of redeems Ten Hag in my opinion. It proves that the issue was simply the unprecedented injury situation.

If we start playing well despite still having lots of injuries then I'm not sure what to make of it... Why did it take us so long to adjust?

If we keep being poor, but still have lots of injuries then I have no idea what to make of it... But I guess I'm leaning towards sack.

If we keep being poor, even with no/few injuries? Definitely sack!

 

[Leftback99]

If he got top 4 it would be a huge turnaround but there's pretty much no chance of that from our position.

 

[londonredmaniac]

For me, it's nothing about results. It's all about performances and seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. So a clear upturn in our attack with more structure in our play. That should produce better results anyway.

If we continue to plod along barely being able to score and our defense leaking goals in then it doesn't matter if he flukes the FA Cup.

I get that this may come across as a weird sort of ramble of thoughts but...I'm in this camp tbh. I want to enjoy the fecking game again.

There's a small irrational part of me that actually doesn't give a bollocks about European football next year...though you'd think improved performances would mean we most likely would.

I just want to see what the plan is in how we approach games, because I currently I don't.

I can't really understand what it is we are implementing from a football pov on the pitch. When you're consistently asking 'what are these doing on the training pitch all week?' it really can't be a good look.

The issues we have had in the past is that performances haven't been consistent or cohesive under several managers but we have had limited success. So it gives credence to improvement or development.

Tbh, not one of our managers since Fergie has delivered the sort of football I want to watch personally as a fan.

Moyes football was poor, LVG style was boring as feck, Jose unattractive, Ole pretty structureless and nothing from ETH has suggested to me that we are moving towards a style of play I want to watch. I said last season we rode our luck massively, so it proved.

Whilst I've enjoyed the cup wins and successful periods can never be taken for granted, I've never quite felt that they have been building towards something in the big picture in the last 10 years at any stage (despite trying to convince myself they were).

Alot of that has been driven by the fact I've not really enjoyed the football. Has it been driven by awful ownership? Yes. Has that been driven by a lack of continuity? Yes. Has it been driven by a lack of leadership and operational structure? Yes. Has it been driven by the fact we've not appointed the right person? Yes. Has it been driven by piss poor player recruitment? Yes. From the top down it's been a shit show.

I'm sort of intrigued as to what this new football operations structure and operation will bring. I think ETH has alot of convincing to do that he is the man to deliver the vision.

I've never been in the sack camp, but it's increasingly difficult for me to say I can't see where the 'get rid of him' opinions are coming from. It's not results or performances driven....it's both. His signings have been atrocious bar Martinez and Cas (I still have hopes for Hojlund). He has spent a fecking fortune and gone nowhere so people are understandably calling that out.

All I hope is that Radcliffe and his merry men have a very clear strategy of what they want to do here. I hope they know exactly who they want structure wise and what the direction it's taking before any decisions get made about manager and player recruitment.

The amount we have got wrong on every conceivable level in comparison to our rivals is nothing short of utterly embarrassing.

Whatever the next decision is, it just can't afford not to be right, otherwise we are having the same conversation late 2025 early 2026 after appointing the next hipster flavour of the month.

I don't see the point of sacking ETH to appoint another interim and I want to see the full structure in place before another manager is given the opportunity and, if it's not ETH after this season, the board and fanbase need to stop throwing their toys out of the pram every 18 months if it's not working yet...but improvement needs to be incremental on some visible level.

I realise this poorly structured bollocks wont make sense to most, it's just a ramble of stuff. Just feels better getting it off my chest

We all want the same thing ultimately though. Not sure why folks on either side of the argument need to batter each other tbh. It's fairly obvious both points of view have genuine merit.

 

[Eric_the_Red99]

Before making my mind up, I want to see how well we do once we have a settled, full strength back four for an extended run of league matches. For me, that’s been the single biggest factor behind this season’s form compared to last year’s (there are obviously other factors, but I think that’s the biggest).

Martinez and Shaw have been the most significant absences this season. Not only do they make our defence more solid, they’re also the best we have at bringing the ball out of defence and linking up with our midfield and attack. (Although worryingly, Martinez’s form was down on last season’s even before his injury, so we need him both fit and healthy and back to his best)

 

[Rista]

I mean, it's pretty obivous. There needs to be some semblance of cohesive football and a drastic improvement in results. We can't keep losing to the likes of Forest and Bournemouth and keep going on about injuries as if other teams have no injuries and as if it's not possible to play at least somewhat decent football with players out. Couldn't care less about domestic cups. Getting kicked out of the FA cup to a weaker side is never going to be as bad as what he served in the CL where we finished bottom of that easy group so what difference does it make. In the same way that going on a good cup run wouldn't be very meaningful.

 

[noodlehair]

Another option for him to regain my support would be to pay me a vast sum of money

 

[el3mel]

No. He showed me he's incapable of leading this team to any significant title challenge or even playing watchable, entertaining football. Top 4 doesn't cut it for me anymore, sorry. Will be same crap again next year.

 

[Kopral Jono]

A top four finish and seeing us with more potency in front of goal.

 

[DWelbz19]

Not really. Unless he suddenly starts valuing controlling midfield matchups (something he hasn’t since he’s been here).

 

[Roane]

Being a football fan is not about being rational. I read and contribute to match day threads and you can be slagging off a player for 89 minutes and he scores in the 90th and you love him.

Similarly with a manager you can be watching us being atrocious and think sack the cnut. And some times it is the right solution and response for example Moyes. But for me in the cold light of day the answer can be completely different, depending on the manager.

I don't want ETH sacked. Play shit against Wigan and that is what I might be posting on the thread. But my real view is he should stay. Based solely on how we have been as a club since SAF left. I think the downfall started with Moyes and continued with LVG and Mourinho and Ole.

Moyes because he got rid of too many players who were leaders and UTD DNA. They may have been old but you keep them around to install that into the next lot. I see this in Evans now. Doesn't always show on TV but his looks, shouts and geeing up the crowd is there.

Ole is loved and rightly so but I don't think his tenure and giving long contracts with huge pay can be overlooked. It's got us in serious trouble and I think players since we have overpaid for is a result of that.

LVG and Mourinho may have been in the Twilight of their careers but they are old school and we should pay attention to their views. Which seems to be the club culture.

Add in injuries and things like the Greenwood, Sancho and even the Ronaldo situation and ETH has been up against it from day 1.

And yeah I appreciate the whole "but he signed Antony". But you know what managers sign shit players all the time. Issue is some can just get rid of it doesn't work out because they have a nucleus of players who can see them through it. We lose say Shaw and it goes to shit. And yeah Onana looks shit. But it took SAF a long time to find the right keeper in big Pete and then another while to find another. And that was one of the best defensive units in front we have had.

Yes Amrabat has been a disappointment. But he was a last minute loan and most players, see vidic and Evra, took a season to become what they did. ETH has no such luxury.

Not saying I'm right here. It just seems to me that we need to give a new manager some time. ETH has done a lot of good since he came in. Handled certain situations really well. Which gets lost when we see another poor performance and a loss. A bit like the slagging off a player for 89 minutes but loving him if he scores the winner in the 90th. With ETH I feel it's reverse. A good 89minutes and then a huge mistake. The focus is the mistake.

Not sure if ETH will be the one long term. But realistically after SAF we should have known we would be lost a little and then taken our time in appointing someone for the long term. An LVG there would have been better than a Moyes on a 6 year deal. Stabilise the after effects of losing SAF and then rebuild.

I feel we should let ETH stabilise now. Then look to rebuild if he isn't the long term solution.

Sorry for the ramble

 

[Robbie Boy]

I need to see massive improvements in our playstyle on a consistent basis. If we drastically improve how we play, and players start performing much better, then I'm not really fussed where we finish, within reason.

 

[Red Star One]

Of course it's theoretically possible, but there's very little to suggest ETH will magically stop being stubborn and changes his tactical and player management style. If that happens and results improve, sky is the limit, he's not getting sacked anytime soon.

 

[bond19821982]

He wants to be the best transition team -and he signed players to implement that. That means a change of tactics from last year. Did he get enough time to implement his new tactics? No, he hasn't had a full squad available for more than 5 games. Now our squad is bare bone ,means if you have your key players out you tactics just wouldn't work. Onana, Martinez, Casemiro, Shaw, Mount and Bruno are his key players. Just think how many times McT has broken down our attacks due to his poor first touch or lack of awareness.

Stop overreacting and think rationally - don't you think he needs more time to implement his new tactics ? I would judge him end of the season. We just can't keep chopping managers every 2 years.

Now does that mean he is faultless ? Absolutely no. He should have adjusted his tactics atleast until his players are back. He is way too stubborn. We should be creating more chances and his signings are questionable too.

We are actually somewhere in the middle where we now know how to play out of highpress but just cannot build up the play after the first phase.

The amount of shit he had to deal with is conveniently being ignored too. The club is a total mess. We should fix that first . Unless we are getting relegated, ETH should see the season out. By then, our new structure will be in place and they will get a good 6 months to evaluate things. Sacking him won't do us any good. It would just be another Ragnick era. If I had known Ralph would be this bad, I would have stick with Ole.

 

[gerdm07]

I'm almost at the point of no return for him. I just don't understand these decisions:

- persisting with Rashford as CF for too many matches
- not playing 2 DMS or a 4-2-3-1 when it's obvious we can't score much
- his substitutions are sometimes nonsensical
- persisting with McT just because he scores a few goals
- playing good football just 20% of the time
- not staying with Rashford on left and Garnacho on right just because of an illness the last match
- not reigning in Bruno with his stupid passes
- most importantly, his transfers for Antony, Amrabat and Hojlund make me question his judgment regarding talent

I could think of more with time.

 

[Stuu]

There would have to be a serious turnaround and top 4 (or ~6 with an FA Cup win) for him to stay, imo. We've made some terrible decisions in the transfer market which seem to have Ten Hag's signature on them combined with a misguided focus on becoming a "transition team" (that quote with haunt him) when most of the teams we play against sit deep. If you can't score first goal to force teams to come at you then being good in transition is all for nought except for a couple times a season.

 

[Rista]

Stop overreacting and think rationally - don't you think he needs more time to implement his new tactics ? I would judge him end of the season. We just can't keep chopping managers every 2 years.

Plenty of managers who don't need that much time to implement their style without breaking all sorts of negative records and yes, yes we can. Average PL manager tenure is 2 years.

 

[greater wall]

It's a tough league. All teams are getting beaten so I expect that to continue. Would like to see us scoring a few more goals. The negative goal difference is embarrassing. We will probably sell Martial, get an injury and then resort to play without a striker or play McTominay there the way the season has gone. As long as the team is playing for ETH then that's enough for me.

 

[Amar__]

We've had full squad before, especially attacking and midfield wise, and we hardly played any great football, so people waiting for fully fit 23-25 players are in for a surprise, because then you will hear the arguments that they aren't in full form, or something like that no doubt.

He can definitely improve the team with some luck, coincidence, new players, etc., but that will not change my general opinion on him as a manager, because he has proved so many times so far that he has so many flaws that are hard to ignore, and I doubt he is willing to improve on them either considering how stubborn he is.

 

[Neil_Buchanan]

I am firmly behind the manager but if the performances don’t improve in the second half of the season with players coming back from injury and less fixtures/more time on the training pitch then it’s probably time for a change.

 

[RedBanker]

If anyone wants to know how far our standards have fallen, reading the posts in this thread is what they should do. The amount of excuses, apologies is just appalling. One would think we are a mid-level club who chanced upon a legendary manager in his prime and must protect him at all costs. People truly are putting manager before club.

 

[Chipper]

Yes, but highly unlikely. If we went on a really good run of results, with deserved victories, playing a tactically consistent and cohesive style of football that I found reasonably entertaining to watch. We'd be looking at something like 44 points or so from the remaining 54 available into the bargain. For example W14 D2 L2.

Might as well have just said no.

Seriously though, if he did that I can change my mind.

Think we have a good chance of at least starting some momentum in the league. Spurs with their high line, the one kind of team that we seem to be able to match up well against like Villa were. Missing Son and have injuries too. Wolves with no Hwang, I think he's still away then? West Ham at home, even if Moyes did recently break his awful away record duck against bigger clubs vs. Arsenal. They're usually very bad away.

Why 44 more points? 4th place currently has 2 points per game, currently on course for 76. That's what we need to aim for. I then felt 75 would be acceptable, matching last season's points tally so dropped it down by 1 point. Call me generous. Means we need 44 more points out of 54 for the remaining matches.

 

[kouroux]

Anyone who answers no just shows an agenda. Of course those who think we should stick with him won’t think that if we lose a load more and vice versa those that want him gone will change their mind if we have a great start to this year.

I disagree, what is there to gain by maintaing this so-called agenda ? I started being unconvinced since March/April last season and have always been hopeful to be proven wrong.

 

[The Urban Goose]

Yes, my opinion can. I've been giving him a lot of leeway given the off the pitch stuff, injuries etc but he needs to show something better in the second half of the season.

Having said that, Potter doesn't inspire any more than ETH at the moment so I'm still inclined to give him summer under SJR/Brailsford and see how he starts next season regardless.