Captaincy…

mctrials23

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I'm pretty outraged. New manager in and he doesn't bin off the old captain immediately before a single game. I thought things were changing. I thought by now he would have:

Reinstated peak Vidic as captain
Replaced 15 of the first XI
Won the league
Turned Rashford into Mbappe but faster

Sack him now before he makes any more of a mess of the job.
 

Someone

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Yep, you must be inside the dressing room to know he is a terrible captain.

Hypothetically speaking, if Maguire is as terrible as you say as a captain, leaders and senior players would have spoken to Ten Hag about this.

Do you actually think Ten Hag has not had a conversation about this with the players? It was actually also well publicised he will vote.

Yet, after a weeks training, speaking to the players, the manager said he is captain.

If he hadn't have had a chance to appoint a new one, he could have easily said, I did not have enough time and he will look at this.
I know he's a terrible Captain because:
  1. He provides zero leadership or influence on the pitch
  2. He's mentally weak and completely crumbled under pressure last season
You honestly believe ETH had enough time to make up his mind about who has what it takes to do it long term in just a couple of weeks? That's nonsense.

This is the right call by ETH because the future captain will need to show leadership in the dressing room and on the pitch first. The whole voting thing was just speculations from the press. Ole made a mistake by making Maguire a captain too soon and it backfired. The new captain will have to earn it. But make no mistake, Maguire is the worst captain we had since the 80s.
 

romufc

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I know he's a terrible Captain because:
  1. He provides zero leadership or influence on the pitch
  2. He's mentally weak and completely crumbled under pressure last season
You honestly believe ETH had enough time to make up his mind about who has what it takes to do it long term in just a couple of weeks? That's nonsense.

This is the right call by ETH because the future captain will need to show leadership in the dressing room and on the pitch first. The whole voting thing was just speculations from the press. Ole made a mistake by making Maguire a captain too soon and it backfired. The new captain will have to earn it. But make no mistake, Maguire is the worst captain we had since the 80s.
Right, so a player has been consistently picked by Ole, Rangnick and Southgate for big games, Euros Final, World Cup semis, CL, EL, PL, has no influence on the pitch. So you know more than them?

He is mentally weak and crumbled? so he is the sole reason we finished 6th? No other reasons at all? He was the only player to crumble under pressure?

So a manager who spent a week with the players, asking other players, speaking to them knows nothing but a fan who only watches on field 90 min games knows more?
 

Keefy18

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Hypothetically speaking, if Maguire is as terrible as you say as a captain, leaders and senior players would have spoken to Ten Hag about this.
Players wouldn't do that to a new coach and logically they shouldn't be cause it creates a toxic atmosphere! The only person who should be in charge is the manager!

I'd say he's a decent lad, but as far as leadership goes he's about as reliable as a choccy teapot!

I'll remind folks - only 3 months ago this was his self analysis on the back of his and our worst season in recent memory and we have ETH now saying he's a success. ETH is getting a pass on this for now but if he continues to play like last season and plays him constantly nothing can or will change.

 

Skills

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Captaincy is overrated & causes more issues than it solves. Maguire shouldn't have got the captaincy back when he got it - should've given it to someone like De Gea. But now the best option by far is to just keep him captain, rather than unnecessarily rock the boat and cause more problems.
 

mitchmouse

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In a way I'm very surprised. I thought ETH would go for someone more vocal. In a way, I'm not surprised because ETH can't possibly know everyone, or all their qualities yet. I wouldn't be shocked if there's a change in season two (or if maguire isn't at the club this time next year). Back in the day there three or four (possibly more) you could choose from, now not so much
 

marko goalo

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I know he's a terrible Captain because:
  1. He provides zero leadership or influence on the pitch
  2. He's mentally weak and completely crumbled under pressure last season
You honestly believe ETH had enough time to make up his mind about who has what it takes to do it long term in just a couple of weeks? That's nonsense.

This is the right call by ETH because the future captain will need to show leadership in the dressing room and on the pitch first. The whole voting thing was just speculations from the press. Ole made a mistake by making Maguire a captain too soon and it backfired. The new captain will have to earn it. But make no mistake, Maguire is the worst captain we had since the 80s.
To be fair, Bryan Robson was the captain for most of the 80's and he led by example on the pitch. None of the current playing staff have the qualities inherent in the likes of Robson or Keane or Bruce for that matter. Not sure who qualifies for the worst captain prior to Maguire
 

Tallis

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I don’t care about the captaincy as such but if he is starting this coming season, it’s bad news. I think he doesn’t deserve to be in the side just for his shambolic performances over the last year.
 

Thinkwell

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De Gea deserve the captaincy. But for the sake of respect stripping off maguire captaincy would distruct his confidence.
 

mitchmouse

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De Gea deserve the captaincy. But for the sake of respect stripping off maguire captaincy would distruct his confidence.
DDG is far too quiet to be captain. We barely hear him call for the ball in the area (because he so rarely comes for it), so how is he going to spur on the team? First season Bruno would be an obvious choice, second season Bruno not even close. I think Scotty McT has the personality to be a captain, but whether he's good enough to be in the starting XI is a question that will rage here until the end of time...

If Varane had played more last season, he might be in with a shout but I can see the problem ETH faced. Who else is there besides Maguire once it's been decided that he will play? I almost want us to buy someone whose been a captain elsewhere - Kane would be nice! It's another reason why this time next summer we must go all out for Declan Rice - that guy's a born leader. (Cue more arguments)
 

Revaulx

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Captaincy is overrated & causes more issues than it solves. Maguire shouldn't have got the captaincy back when he got it - should've given it to someone like De Gea. But now the best option by far is to just keep him captain, rather than unnecessarily rock the boat and cause more problems.
This is spot on. ETH has had to contend with enough pointless drama without creating any himself.

If Maguire is willing and able to follow instructions he’ll be fine, and questions regarding his fitness to be captain will largely disappear. If he isn’t he’ll be benched. It’s really not complicated.
 

wolvored

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I think TH just said that because hes just started himself and hasnt even played a competitive match.
Maguire staying as captain for the moment makes sense in this scenario.
By the start of the season after team performances, transfers in, maybe some more out, he will have a better understanding of his starting 11 and subs.
The captaincy can be changed if Maguires performances dont pick up.
The deputy captain might be an interesting choice. If its a player who performs well, this could easily turn into becoming the captain, if Maguire is dropped. FDJ anyone?
 

mitchmouse

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I think TH just said that because hes just started himself and hasnt even played a competitive match.
Maguire staying as captain for the moment makes sense in this scenario.
By the start of the season after team performances, transfers in, maybe some more out, he will have a better understanding of his starting 11 and subs.
The captaincy can be changed if Maguires performances dont pick up.
The deputy captain might be an interesting choice. If its a player who performs well, this could easily turn into becoming the captain, if Maguire is dropped. FDJ anyone?
I did wonder about FdJ but possibly a bit young when coupled with no PL experience/new to the team/never captained before (to my knowledge). My guess is it will be Bruno. I've said elsewhere that next year i want it to be Declan Rice. The more I think about this guy, the more I think he is as close to Roy Keane as we are likely to find in this day and age - my only doubt is hearing Stuart Pearce saying the same thing!
 

wolvored

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I did wonder about FdJ but possibly a bit young when coupled with no PL experience/new to the team/never captained before (to my knowledge). My guess is it will be Bruno. I've said elsewhere that next year i want it to be Declan Rice. The more I think about this guy, the more I think he is as close to Roy Keane as we are likely to find in this day and age - my only doubt is hearing Stuart Pearce saying the same thing!
I think Rice is nailed on for Chelsea once he gets to his final 12 months/end of contract, depending on how hard ball WHU play. If by some chance we have a chance, then agree we should get him.
 

mitchmouse

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I think Rice is nailed on for Chelsea once he gets to his final 12 months/end of contract, depending on how hard ball WHU play. If by some chance we have a chance, then agree we should get him.
this means doing what City usually do, especially with Haaland: make contact on the very first day allowed by law and tell him we want to build around him, will give him captain's armband and will pay what he asks. Sadly, though, I agree, he's much more likely to end up at Chelsea, but we should warn him that there he could be more a Joe Cole than a Frank Lampard
 

wolvored

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this means doing what City usually do, especially with Haaland: make contact on the very first day allowed by law and tell him we want to build around him, will give him captain's armband and will pay what he asks. Sadly, though, I agree, he's much more likely to end up at Chelsea, but we should warn him that there he could be more a Joe Cole than a Frank Lampard
Yes it doesnt always work. Veron I thought would propel us to regular ECL winners. He didnt work for us or Chelsea.
 

mitchmouse

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Yes it doesnt always work. Veron I thought would propel us to regular ECL winners. He didnt work for us or Chelsea.
i was never a fan of Veron (from day one). Had about one good game (well, half): that mad game were we came from three down at White Hart Lane
 

wolvored

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i was never a fan of Veron (from day one). Had about one good game (well, half): that mad game were we came from three down at White Hart Lane
Was listening to it on the radio switched off half time. Couldnt believe it when i put final scores on tv. Was it RVN first game as well?
 

mitchmouse

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Was listening to it on the radio switched off half time. Couldnt believe it when i put final scores on tv. Was it RVN first game as well?
I remember exactly where I was. At three down I was miserable but I saw a score flash of our first goal and such was my confidence in the team back then, I thought: if we get another one quickly, we'll get at least a point... Not RvN's first game
 

wolvored

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I remember exactly where I was. At three down I was miserable but I saw a score flash of our first goal and such was my confidence in the team back then, I thought: if we get another one quickly, we'll get at least a point... Not RvN's first game
Oh maybe his first goal. Seem to remember they said something about RVN on tv, cant remember what.
 

Chaky_Best

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We gave it to Maguire and it was a mistake.

Then we are stuck with him as removing him the captaincy would destroy the player + cause riots in the dressing room between pro Maguire and pro new captain.

I would leave him the armband, but would replace him slowly this season, if Lindelof/Varane/(hopefully another CB) plays better than him and give to Bruno.

Also, we have the Ronaldo case, where his legend status deserves the captaincy, but wouldnt give it to him.
 

romufc

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I would leave him the armband, but would replace him slowly this season, if Lindelof/Varane/(hopefully another CB) plays better than him and give to Bruno.

Also, we have the Ronaldo case, where his legend status deserves the captaincy, but wouldnt give it to him
So your theory is leave him captain and hope he can be replaced by Lindelof / Varane, then strip the captaincy of him?

That is the worst management method if I saw one. So if you do it in pre season, it will cause riots and destroy confidence but you reckon mid season theyll be throwing a party?
 

Chaky_Best

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So your theory is leave him captain and hope he can be replaced by Lindelof / Varane, then strip the captaincy of him?

That is the worst management method if I saw one. So if you do it in pre season, it will cause riots and destroy confidence but you reckon mid season theyll be throwing a party?
If he's not good enough he should be benched, as all the players so yes, think that ETH, played it safe with the dressing room not changing this now.

When Ole came in, he had Young as captain, stood 6 month with him and imposed his own captain. So don t see any issue
 

Revaulx

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i was never a fan of Veron (from day one). Had about one good game (well, half): that mad game were we came from three down at White Hart Lane
I wasn’t, until he had a run of games in a midfield two partnered by Phil Neville during an injury crisis not long before he was sold. He looked the complete midfielder, which he hadn’t remotely done previously.
 

Mcking

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We gave it to Maguire and it was a mistake.

Then we are stuck with him as removing him the captaincy would destroy the player + cause riots in the dressing room between pro Maguire and pro new captain.

I would leave him the armband, but would replace him slowly this season, if Lindelof/Varane/(hopefully another CB) plays better than him and give to Bruno.

Also, we have the Ronaldo case, where his legend status deserves the captaincy, but wouldnt give it to him.
Bruno himself isn't guaranteed to play regularly with Eriksen lurking. I would say Maguire is in a much better position to consistently perform on the pitch and stamp some authority on the squad.

I thought Ronaldo with his profile and record as a footballer would have been the best man if we were looking to move the captaincy without much drama. With the reports about Ronaldo though, I feel Ten Hag has made the right choice sticking with the incumbent.
 

Chief123

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The Maguire lovers will be giddy over this but Maguire will not be here long term under ETH. ETH will accept he needs to ride it through to build his own team. As soon as we have adequate resources/signings in defence Maguire will be sold if a suitable offer comes in.
 

Tyrion

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I'm pretty outraged. New manager in and he doesn't bin off the old captain immediately before a single game. I thought things were changing. I thought by now he would have:

Reinstated peak Vidic as captain
Replaced 15 of the first XI
Won the league
Turned Rashford into Mbappe but faster

Sack him now before he makes any more of a mess of the job.
A lot of fans here hate this team so much they don't want the manager to turn them around, they want the manager to basically cull the team. I get that but ETH can't just announce that he wants to bin all these jokers, especially when most football clubs are strapped for cash.

Ideally he'd help improve Maguire (for example) until we can find a better defender or let his contract run out.
 

mctrials23

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A lot of fans here hate this team so much they don't want the manager to turn them around, they want the manager to basically cull the team. I get that but ETH can't just announce that he wants to bin all these jokers, especially when most football clubs are strapped for cash.

Ideally he'd help improve Maguire (for example) until we can find a better defender or let his contract run out.
Its an odd one isn't it. I think Ralf wasn't joking when he said most of the team needed replacing but I think he was basing it on what he saw and the attitude and application issues of last season. I don't think he would have had the same opinion if he was assessing the team the previous season.

I think that many of these players will ultimately find themselves at other teams in the next few years but that will be for lack of desire to fight rather than a lack of ability for some of them.

Livepool are a great example of a team that has consistently taken average players that no one really cared about and made them look top class. The system allowed them to do this and thats why I have such high hopes for United under ETH. Liverpool have some quality players in key positions but they also have a bunch of workhorses that are elevated by the collective efforts of those around them.

We need to support ETH and if the fans support him then perhaps the players might support him a little more as well. We have already seen the massive positive impact of simply appointing a manager that makes the players happy. Oles first few months were great. It only started to fall apart when the players were realising that feel good only gets you so far. If ETH can make the team better and we start to see good results with good play then the rest of the pieces will quickly fall into place. Its easy to work hard when you enjoy your job and feel like you are moving towards something.

Its too early to say how good ETH will be but he is the first manager since Fergie who I genuinely believe has the talent and relevance to the modern game to take us back to the top. How long that will take I have no idea but I believe.
 

Tom Cato

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Frankly Im loving the damage control fanfiction as to why Ten Hag has stated Harry Maguire is the captain.

Ill put out my own radical theory: Harry Maguire is the captain because that is the status quo, and there is no reason to change it until it needs changing.

If any of you actively disagree, youre essentially saying that you know better than Ten Hag.
 

georgipep

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Its an odd one isn't it. I think Ralf wasn't joking when he said most of the team needed replacing but I think he was basing it on what he saw and the attitude and application issues of last season. I don't think he would have had the same opinion if he was assessing the team the previous season.

I think that many of these players will ultimately find themselves at other teams in the next few years but that will be for lack of desire to fight rather than a lack of ability for some of them.

Livepool are a great example of a team that has consistently taken average players that no one really cared about and made them look top class. The system allowed them to do this and thats why I have such high hopes for United under ETH. Liverpool have some quality players in key positions but they also have a bunch of workhorses that are elevated by the collective efforts of those around them.

We need to support ETH and if the fans support him then perhaps the players might support him a little more as well. We have already seen the massive positive impact of simply appointing a manager that makes the players happy. Oles first few months were great. It only started to fall apart when the players were realising that feel good only gets you so far. If ETH can make the team better and we start to see good results with good play then the rest of the pieces will quickly fall into place. Its easy to work hard when you enjoy your job and feel like you are moving towards something.

Its too early to say how good ETH will be but he is the first manager since Fergie who I genuinely believe has the talent and relevance to the modern game to take us back to the top. How long that will take I have no idea but I believe.
Which players did Liverpool get and made look top class that other teams didn't care about?
 

phelans shorts

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We gave it to Maguire and it was a mistake.

Then we are stuck with him as removing him the captaincy would destroy the player + cause riots in the dressing room between pro Maguire and pro new captain.

I would leave him the armband, but would replace him slowly this season, if Lindelof/Varane/(hopefully another CB) plays better than him and give to Bruno.

Also, we have the Ronaldo case, where his legend status deserves the captaincy, but wouldnt give it to him.
When the other names you mention are Bruno and Ronaldo surely it’s no surprise to realise that Maguire is the best option
 

Revaulx

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Frankly Im loving the damage control fanfiction as to why Ten Hag has stated Harry Maguire is the captain.

Ill put out my own radical theory: Harry Maguire is the captain because that is the status quo, and there is no reason to change it until it needs changing.

If any of you actively disagree, youre essentially saying that you know better than Ten Hag.
Yeah. A lot seem to be insisting that he’s “chosen” Maguire to be captain. No he hasn’t.

It’s not like he’s announced that “my captain shall always play”. If Maguire fails to adapt to the ETH Way I have no doubt he will be benched, while also remaining captain; at least for the time being.
 

mctrials23

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Which players did Liverpool get and made look top class that other teams didn't care about?
Wijnaldum - alright but quality at Liverpool
Fabinho - Plenty of interest from other teams but turned into one of the best DMs around at Liverpool
Milner - Journeyman player when they bought him but has been integral to their team for years now
Matip - No one rated him until liverpool
Henderson - no one rated him highly before Klopp
Salah - Wasn't in massive demand when he went to pool, had already been in the PL at Chelsea and didn't make the cut
Mane - Most people didn't think he was that great. Good player but nothing special until he went to pool.

Like it or not, Liverpool have taken a lot of decent players and made them part of a world class team.
 

georgipep

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Wijnaldum - alright but quality at Liverpool
Fabinho - Plenty of interest from other teams but turned into one of the best DMs around at Liverpool
Milner - Journeyman player when they bought him but has been integral to their team for years now
Matip - No one rated him until liverpool
Henderson - no one rated him highly before Klopp
Salah - Wasn't in massive demand when he went to pool, had already been in the PL at Chelsea and didn't make the cut
Mane - Most people didn't think he was that great. Good player but nothing special until he went to pool.

Like it or not, Liverpool have taken a lot of decent players and made them part of a world class team.
We wanted Fabinho, among other top teams.

Milner literally went to Liverpool from City.

Henderson was linked with us too.

Salah was at Chelsea, then made a name at Roma.

We wanted Mane too.

I think you are underestimating these players massively.

Even Wjnaldum was always a big surprise to be at Newcastle.

I'll give you Matip.
 

mctrials23

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We wanted Fabinho, among other top teams.

Milner literally went to Liverpool from City.

Henderson was linked with us too.

Salah was at Chelsea, then made a name at Roma.

We wanted Mane too.

I think you are underestimating these players massively.

Even Wjnaldum was always a big surprise to be at Newcastle.

I'll give you Matip.
Which of those players haven't massively exceeded expectations? I'm not suggesting that some weren't considered decent, I am saying that if you compare what standard they were considered when they arrived vs their standard for Liverpool there is a large gulf.

Milner was never considered good enough for City and I think plenty of us thought he would just be a squad rotation/back up at very best at Liverpool
Henderson was never considered anything but average until Liverpool
Salah did well at Roma but his poor stint at Chelsea meant there weren't teams lining up for him.
Mane was just another good player in an alright smaller PL team. No one thought he would become anything like as good as he did.

Like I said, I'm not saying they bought championship players and made them world class but they have bought a lot of average/decent players and made them stars that any team would want.
 

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Milner has always been a very good player.

He’s not liked by United fans because he’s spent a lot of his lengthy career playing for hated rivals.
 

georgipep

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Which of those players haven't massively exceeded expectations? I'm not suggesting that some weren't considered decent, I am saying that if you compare what standard they were considered when they arrived vs their standard for Liverpool there is a large gulf.

Milner was never considered good enough for City and I think plenty of us thought he would just be a squad rotation/back up at very best at Liverpool
Henderson was never considered anything but average until Liverpool
Salah did well at Roma but his poor stint at Chelsea meant there weren't teams lining up for him.
Mane was just another good player in an alright smaller PL team. No one thought he would become anything like as good as he did.

Like I said, I'm not saying they bought championship players and made them world class but they have bought a lot of average/decent players and made them stars that any team would want.
You wrote "taken average players that no one really cared about and made them look top class."

I don't think these were average players before coming to Liverpool, at all. Otherwise there wouldn't have been interest from us.

As for Milner, Pep wanted him to stay and he played in 32 PL games and 8 CL games in his last season at City. If that doesn't scream 'important player' I don't know what does.
 
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