Carrick/McKenna upgrade?

[leont]

The one common denominator is Carrick, as a player he tended to play a lot of sideways balls hence the nickname sandcrab.He was the main player in the dressing room after Sir Alex left and has always been in the background with all the managers if it was a player or assistant coach.
Look at Bruno when he first came to us,forward thinking and passing anyone noticed that's gone and a lot of sideways passing.

 

[christy87]

Indeed we really do need someone who can see what's going on from the side of the pitch and try to make an impact in games when things aren't going our way. I mean we almost never turn games around once we go a goal behind.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/punktenachrueckstand/wettbewerb/GB1

That’s actually quite amazing to be honest, take a look at the last season and you can see the change in the squad, the last 10 years when we fell behind we expected to lose but this season it felt like we’ll probably win it in the end

 

[Denis79]

Indeed we really do need someone who can see what's going on from the side of the pitch and try to make an impact in games when things aren't going our way. I mean we almost never turn games around once we go a goal behind.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/punktenachrueckstand/wettbewerb/GB1

We've turned games around by cho choing the same 11 and same formation. That was down to our players, not our coaches. But sometimes they'll need help to turn it around.

 

[stevoc]

Well set pieces looking at how many times we have been caught out this season and how to deal with a low block

What should they be telling them to do to defend set-pieces better?

I imagine there is a limit to what coaching can achieve in terms of setting a team up to defend set-pieces when we have a collection central defenders bar Maguire who aren't great in the air.

Same with breaking down defensive sides is there anything they should be instructing players to do to break teams down that they aren't already telling them?

Or is it similar to the set-piece situation where they are limited by the players available in the squad. We have no actual right wingers, AWB isn't the greatest going forward, Rashford struggles when teams sit deep as his main strength which is his pace is of little use. We have no dedicated DM forcing us to play Fred and McTominay most matches where a DM might allow us to play both Pogba and Fernandes centrally with 3 attacking players in front of them. The team the majority of which Solskjaer inherited is better suited to counter attacking football, so no wonder we have problems against packed defences.

This team is a work in progress still I believe coaching while important can only get you so far without top class players in every position.

 

[stevoc]

We've turned games around by cho choing the same 11 and same formation. That was down to our players, not our coaches. But sometimes they'll need help to turn it around.

So every time we've turned a game around and won from a losing position we haven't made any substitutions or received instructions, tactical changes or half time team talks that contributed to them?

Bold claim.

 

[Denis79]

So every time we've turned a game around and won from a losing position we haven't made any substitutions or received instructions, tactical changes or half time team talks that contributed to them?

Bold claim.

Didn't say every but many/most I couldn't see any difference in their positioning or their tactics/play.

 

[stevoc]

Didn't say every but many/most I couldn't see any difference in their positioning or their tactics/play.

Yeah you couldn't see any difference. But that doesn't necessarily mean that there hasn't been coaching or motivation instilled in the players before, during or after games by the manager and the coaches. That has lead to United gaining 11 more points from losing positions than the next best team. It's not a fluke again and again the team has turned games around this season so obviously they are doing something right.

Why is it a common theme on here that everything the team is bad at is the coaches fault but things the team is good at is all down to the players and/or blind luck?

 

[Denis79]

Yeah you couldn't see any difference. But that doesn't necessarily mean that there hasn't been coaching or motivation instilled in the players before, during or after games by the manager and the coaches. That has lead to United gaining 11 more points from losing positions than the next best team. It's not a fluke so obviously they are doing some things right.

Why is it a common theme on here that everything the team is bad at is the coaches fault but things the team is good at is all down to the players and/or blind luck?

I believe the coaches are great motivators without a doubt and turning a game isn't luck never claimed as such. I've seen the players get fired up, work harder many times this season as you say and if that's down to the coaches great. I simply believe we need proper tacticians added to the coaching team because I have yet to see us adapt tactically when things really look bad.

Edit: Adapt tactically with success.

 

[sglowrider]

What should they be telling them to do to defend set-pieces better?

I imagine there is a limit to what coaching can achieve in terms of setting a team up to defend set-pieces when we have a collection central defenders bar Maguire who aren't great in the air.

Same with breaking down defensive sides is there anything they should be instructing players to do to break teams down that they aren't already telling them?

Or is it similar to the set-piece situation where they are limited by the players available in the squad. We have no actual right wingers, AWB isn't the greatest going forward, Rashford struggles when teams sit deep as his main strength which is his pace is of little use. We have no dedicated DM forcing us to play Fred and McTominay most matches where a DM might allow us to play both Pogba and Fernandes centrally with 3 attacking players in front of them. The team the majority of which Solskjaer inherited is better suited to counter attacking football, so no wonder we have problems against packed defences.

This team is a work in progress still I believe coaching while important can only get you so far without top class players in every position.

Nail on head.

 

[hobbers]

Yeah you couldn't see any difference. But that doesn't necessarily mean that there hasn't been coaching or motivation instilled in the players before, during or after games by the manager and the coaches. That has lead to United gaining 11 more points from losing positions than the next best team. It's not a fluke again and again the team has turned games around this season so obviously they are doing something right.

Why is it a common theme on here that everything the team is bad at is the coaches fault but things the team is good at is all down to the players and/or blind luck?

If the coaches cant motivate or coach our players to start matches well, even the big occasions, why would they be able to motivate or coach our players to overturn comebacks?

I imagine there is a limit to what coaching can achieve in terms of setting a team up to defend set-pieces when we have a collection central defenders bar Maguire who aren't great in the air.

For instance, not going semi-zonal all the time and leaving players like Rashford, carrying a shoulder injury, to man mark the other teams most aerially dominant player.

 

[Sky1981]

I dont know what they do and how good or bad they're doing their job.

All i know is 2 years on the job and we're not seeing any improvement tactical wise. Pts wise perhaps, changing room atmosphere, fighting attitude, but the tactical approach is still lacking.

It's easier to determine whether the coach are doing their job or not by simply looking at their end product. The buck stops at the management team at the end of the day. If the coaches arent good enough it's up to the gaffer to axe them.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Think many will have forgotten there wasn’t really a pre-season and games have been coming thick and fast. Most training sessions throughout the season are probably active recovery and just working on problems other teams propose when coming to play us, or weaknesses they think we can exploit.

Surely this limits the amount of work that can be done in terms of our shape, ideals, patterns and just generally the amount of time you can spend working with players like Bruno, Rashford, Pogba and that to improve their positions and the decisions they make on the field.

McKenna is supposed to be the geek obsessed with statistics and data and watching opponents. There was an interview with Pogba where he said Carrick was doing a great job but for the cynical amongst us who knows if that’s just pr.

 

[diarm]

The one common denominator is Carrick, as a player he tended to play a lot of sideways balls hence the nickname sandcrab.He was the main player in the dressing room after Sir Alex left and has always been in the background with all the managers if it was a player or assistant coach.
Look at Bruno when he first came to us,forward thinking and passing anyone noticed that's gone and a lot of sideways passing.

Am I the only one who has never heard Carrick referred to as Sandcrab?

He was also unbelievable at picking sharp, incisive forward passes up to players in between the lines.

What a load of nonsense.

 

[Glorio]

Am I the only one who has never heard Carrick referred to as Sandcrab?

He was also unbelievable at picking sharp, incisive forward passes up to player in between the lines.

What a load of nonsense.

Similar to the claim that Bruno now plays only sideways - that post has absolutely zero truth to it

 

[stevoc]

I believe the coaches are great motivators without a doubt and turning a game isn't luck never claimed as such. I've seen the players get fired up, work harder many times this season as you say and if that's down to the coaches great. I simply believe we need proper tacticians added to the coaching team because I have yet to see us adapt tactically when things really look bad.

Edit: Adapt tactically with success.

I have no idea who is the brains behind our tactics out of Solskjaer, Phelan & McKenna/Carrick and I wouldn't necessarily disagree if you said our tactics are not the best at times. Or that they can be slow to change things up during a game both in terms of tactical switches and subs. But I don't think you can say you haven't ever seen us adapt tactically during a game.

 

[stevoc]

Am I the only one who has never heard Carrick referred to as Sandcrab?

He was also unbelievable at picking sharp, incisive forward passes up to players in between the lines.

What a load of nonsense.

No, no one ever called him that. I think you can safely disregard that entire post.

 

[stevoc]

If the coaches cant motivate or coach our players to start matches well, even the big occasions, why would they be able to motivate or coach our players to overturn comebacks?

Why couldn't Ferguson do it? Why did we have to launch so many comebacks under SAF, do you think he was bad at motivating his players to start matches well and/or had little contribution towards the comebacks?

For instance, not going semi-zonal all the time and leaving players like Rashford, carrying a shoulder injury, to man mark the other teams most aerially dominant player.

I agree with your first point I'm not a fan of semi-zonal or even zonal marking but it's almost the standard now in the modern game. We definitely need to improve our defending of set-pieces but I still think it's largely a personnel issue. We need more aerially dominant defenders.

 

[simmee]

What should they be telling them to do to defend set-pieces better?

I imagine there is a limit to what coaching can achieve in terms of setting a team up to defend set-pieces when we have a collection central defenders bar Maguire who aren't great in the air.

Same with breaking down defensive sides is there anything they should be instructing players to do to break teams down that they aren't already telling them?

Or is it similar to the set-piece situation where they are limited by the players available in the squad. We have no actual right wingers, AWB isn't the greatest going forward, Rashford struggles when teams sit deep as his main strength which is his pace is of little use. We have no dedicated DM forcing us to play Fred and McTominay most matches where a DM might allow us to play both Pogba and Fernandes centrally with 3 attacking players in front of them. The team the majority of which Solskjaer inherited is better suited to counter attacking football, so no wonder we have problems against packed defences.

This team is a work in progress still I believe coaching while important can only get you so far without top class players in every position.

On thing would be to not play a very high line when you have a goalkeeper who is afraid to attack the ball. Very small margin of error to play that way with DDG in goal.

You have to adjust the tactics to the players you have and can't always blame it on the squad. This is not to say that Carrick and McKenna are not good enough, it might as well be the players failure to execute what they are told.

 

[stevoc]

On thing would be to not play a very high line when you have a goalkeeper who is afraid to attack the ball. Very small margin of error to play that way with DDG in goal.

You have to adjust the tactics to the players you have and can't always blame it on the squad. This is not to say that Carrick and McKenna are not good enough, it might as well be the players failure to execute what they are told.

Yeah probably why we usually don't play with a high line that and the lack of pace with Lindelof and Maguire. Henderson is a bit more aggressive with coming out to make clearances. If he is first choice next year and we manage to sign a top CB with pace playing a higher line will be a more viable option for us.

And i'm not saying all our tactical failures are down to the players not being good enough. At times that will be the reason at other times it will be the tactics or sometimes a mixture of both as is the case with every team. But I don't know how people look at this team and conclude that the coaches are at fault for almost every weakness in the team.

 

[Tiber]

You guys must attend a lot more United training sessions than I do

 

[Crashoutcassius]

People genuinely think bringing on subs is our biggest problem

 

[DULLAGHAN]

I just want a set pieces coach. We are horrendously bad at defending set pieces, it just looks like pure panic every time a dead ball gets whipped in. Between De Gea being glued to his line and Lindelof looking about as solid and powerful as warm jelly.

Our attacking set pieces aren't much better either, it's usually a violent assault on the 1st man in defence.

Improved set piece both attacking and defensively has to be worth 10 to 12 points over the season.

 

[Born2Lose]

Said it in another thread, I don't mind them there but Ole needs a real Assistant Manager, one with plenty of experience and nouse who'll challenge some of his decisions and provide some contradictory views rather than being the yes men Carrick and McKenna seem to be.

I watch them sometimes and can't help thinking it's more run by committee than Ole actually listening to views and making decisions.

SAF realised the value of a top Assistant Manager and it's surprising to me it's not dawned on Ole considering how many years he played at the club and saw it first hand.

 

[Born2Lose]

People genuinely think bringing on subs is our biggest problem

That's debateable, what isn't is that Emery made the right changes at the right time in the final and his team won the Cup.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

That's debateable, what isn't is that Emery made the right changes at the right time in the final and his team won the Cup.

I don't think it's debatable that subs is this clubs biggest problem, but good luck with it

 

[Idxomer]

The one common denominator is Carrick, as a player he tended to play a lot of sideways balls hence the nickname sandcrab.He was the main player in the dressing room after Sir Alex left and has always been in the background with all the managers if it was a player or assistant coach.
Look at Bruno when he first came to us,forward thinking and passing anyone noticed that's gone and a lot of sideways passing.

What?

 

[golden_blunder]

This is up there with “what does phelan do?” In Fergies time

 

[golden_blunder]

What?

Think he’s mixed up with Ray Wilkins. Literally never heard that about Carrick

 

[Welsh Wonder]

https://www.redcafe.net/search/448080/?q=sandcrab&o=relevance

Not that famous a nickname, clearly

 

[golden_blunder]

Arteta was one of peps first appointed coaches. Now people say he hasn’t a clue

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/talkspo...aches-men-behind-title-success-including/amp/

 

[golden_blunder]

https://www.redcafe.net/search/448080/?q=sandcrab&o=relevance

Not that famous a nickname, clearly

It’s absolutely a new one on me

 

[stevoc]

Said it in another thread, I don't mind them there but Ole needs a real Assistant Manager, one with plenty of experience and nouse who'll challenge some of his decisions and provide some contradictory views rather than being the yes men Carrick and McKenna seem to be.

I watch them sometimes and can't help thinking it's more run by committee than Ole actually listening to views and making decisions.

SAF realised the value of a top Assistant Manager and it's surprising to me it's not dawned on Ole considering how many years he played at the club and saw it first hand.

You do realize though that Ole's assistant manager is the same man that was Ferguson's assistant manager for around a decade don't you?

Is Mike Phelan a top assistant manager and/or a real assistant manager? Or neither?

 

[hobbers]

Why couldn't Ferguson do it? Why did we have to launch so many comebacks under SAF, do you think he was bad at motivating his players to start matches well and/or had little contribution towards the comebacks?

SAF-era comebacks usually didn't follow the same pattern as our comebacks this season.

How many times under SAF did we not bother turning up for the entire first half? Generally speaking the comebacks under SAF were in even games against good sides, where we were not at our best. Not like this season where we looked pretty much bipolar and conceded awful goals in the first 30 minutes like clockwork.

 

[stevoc]

SAF-era comebacks usually didn't follow the same pattern as our comebacks this season.

How many times under SAF did we not bother turning up for the entire first half? Generally speaking the comebacks under SAF were in even games against good sides, where we were not at our best. Not like this season where we looked pretty much bipolar and conceded awful goals in the first 30 minutes like clockwork.

I don't know we went through periods even under SAF especially in his later years where we were slow starters. Yes we are slow starters now under Solskjaer. But all I'm saying is I don't see how you can attribute the slow starts to poor coaching yet give the manager and coaches little credit for the comebacks. It's not ideal but they are clearly doing something right as the team rescues more games than most other sides from losing positions.

 

[Luke1995]

So weird how people try to talk as an authority on things they literally have zero clue about. What experience or knowledge do you have about Carrick and McKenna’s confidence and general approach?

Hey man, I am just trying to understand why apparently their impact at the club has been so low.

 

[Dante]

They can only work within the limitations of the players.

I'm sure they're telling Lindelof to stop being beaten in the air or AWB to stop getting caught out of position or Fred to stop passing the ball to the opposition on the edge of the box. But if the players are incapable of carrying out the instructions, there's not much more they can do.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Just get someone in who knows how to organise defending set pieces for the love of God!

 

[ray24]

You do realize though that Ole's assistant manager is the same man that was Ferguson's assistant manager for around a decade don't you?

Is Mike Phelan a top assistant manager and/or a real assistant manager? Or neither?

Mike Phelan seems like an outdated coach. Even in the last years of Ferguson your team were outcoached on plenty of occasions.

 

[Foxbatt]

Mike Phelan seems like an outdated coach. Even in the last years of Ferguson your team were outcoached on plenty of occasions.

It was Rene who was the first team coach. Phelan didn't do much coaching. I had a nephew who was coached by Carrick at an academy in Manchester and he thought he was one of the worst coaches they had. Which is surprising when he was supposed to be such a good player.

 

[Amir]

It was Rene who was the first team coach. Phelan didn't do much coaching. I had a nephew who was coached by Carrick at an academy in Manchester and he thought he was one of the worst coaches they had. Which is surprising when he was supposed to be such a good player.

Not really surprising as playing and coaching are two different professions.