Imagine using a one game wonder like Tuanzebe in a Varane argument
Casemiro (Out)
- Thread starter Samid
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When the manager got rid of Incey, Robbo, Sparky and Kanchelskis around 94-1995, Keane, Butt, Scholes, Beckham etc. stepped up. But they were able to step up because there were still experienced players able to take the burden of responsibility and pressure: Eric, Brucey, Pally, Irwin etc.
When the manager got rid of Ruud in 2006, Rooney and Ronaldo stepped up. But again, this was facilitated by the fact we had experienced veterans such as Giggsy, Scholesy, Neville etc. to guide the way.
Now we look set to get rid of experienced yet aging winners with warrior mentalities with nobody to occupy their position in the squad of similar status. Mistake me if I’m wrong, but should Varane and Cas be canned, our most experienced players and dressing room leaders would be: Maguire, Bruno, Shaw and Rashford.
All I can say is “yikes”. Our squad development is really confused. I understand that we can only get back to challenging for the league gradually and it will not happen overnight. But if the aim is to build a young and hungry team then the recruitment needs to be spot on.
When the manager got rid of Ruud in 2006, Rooney and Ronaldo stepped up. But again, this was facilitated by the fact we had experienced veterans such as Giggsy, Scholesy, Neville etc. to guide the way.
Now we look set to get rid of experienced yet aging winners with warrior mentalities with nobody to occupy their position in the squad of similar status. Mistake me if I’m wrong, but should Varane and Cas be canned, our most experienced players and dressing room leaders would be: Maguire, Bruno, Shaw and Rashford.
All I can say is “yikes”. Our squad development is really confused. I understand that we can only get back to challenging for the league gradually and it will not happen overnight. But if the aim is to build a young and hungry team then the recruitment needs to be spot on.
Varane, Case, and Rasford were his back last season.
The thing about him is that we as a team is not building properly yet in that we have too many holes to fill to get the squad we need to compete and him and Varane is not gonna help changing it in short time (well they did as was other signings last season but we see what happens this season). So question is should we sell him and Varane while the stock is high or we keep them?
Im leaning toward selling them while the stock is high. Lets be honest, we should use this season to plan for next seasons ahead, build squad up with younger players, athletics, power, technical and most of all press resistent (im really fed up with our players that get dispossessed easily when only apply pressure).
We can keep him but only if we have a system in mind that fit him. We cant let him play like he do for us as a midfield general, its funeral for our midfield. The way we play now is a mismatch for him. Also the big big warning is the availability of him and also Varane, they are still elite players if use wisely however, it wont help if you miss lots of games during seasons.
Im leaning toward selling them while the stock is high. Lets be honest, we should use this season to plan for next seasons ahead, build squad up with younger players, athletics, power, technical and most of all press resistent (im really fed up with our players that get dispossessed easily when only apply pressure).
We can keep him but only if we have a system in mind that fit him. We cant let him play like he do for us as a midfield general, its funeral for our midfield. The way we play now is a mismatch for him. Also the big big warning is the availability of him and also Varane, they are still elite players if use wisely however, it wont help if you miss lots of games during seasons.
No one got "rid" of Robbo.
I have no issue with him or Varane leaving. But I do have issue with they leave before the others dross we have since Ole days. With Varane gone and Martinez out we will be back with Magguire (good form, well play but still not convinced) and Lindelof. With Case gone, we are left with Amrabat, MCT and Mainoo at a push for starting positions.
Unless they explicitly wants out, I dont see any benefit to selling them now.
Unless they explicitly wants out, I dont see any benefit to selling them now.
Of course, we're not signing anyone soon - bar a possible loan or two - and the priority really is to get rid. As quickly and effectively as possible.
Sure, there's an outside chance that a fit, in better form, Casemiro would be our best midfielder for the rest of this season but it's a write-off. I'm past caring that we might scrape a Conference slot and resigned to our being mid-table at best. The focus is on a new footballing operation taking bold steps to start getting us to a better place, where we might be able to complete for the top four, giving us some sort of sustainable foundation. That's 2-3 years away. At least.
Casemiro is rapidly declining asset, where we have a likely narrow window to shift him to a Saudi club. He needs to be sold. Assuming there will be (is?) an offer, we sell. Not doing that would be an early red flag we've not changed
Amrabat goes back after his loan, Eriksen leaves on a free (wonderful player at his peak) and McTom should be flogged to whoever gives us £20m. He's another with a falling value.
None of these players can ever be part of where we need to be. Just get them out. As soon as we can.
Sure, there's an outside chance that a fit, in better form, Casemiro would be our best midfielder for the rest of this season but it's a write-off. I'm past caring that we might scrape a Conference slot and resigned to our being mid-table at best. The focus is on a new footballing operation taking bold steps to start getting us to a better place, where we might be able to complete for the top four, giving us some sort of sustainable foundation. That's 2-3 years away. At least.
Casemiro is rapidly declining asset, where we have a likely narrow window to shift him to a Saudi club. He needs to be sold. Assuming there will be (is?) an offer, we sell. Not doing that would be an early red flag we've not changed
Amrabat goes back after his loan, Eriksen leaves on a free (wonderful player at his peak) and McTom should be flogged to whoever gives us £20m. He's another with a falling value.
None of these players can ever be part of where we need to be. Just get them out. As soon as we can.
I love this guy and he's been missed, maybe he was a 1 season wonder and got to comfy who knows.. if that's the issues then he has to go..
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It is Casemiro or Amrabat for the more sitting back and counter attack 451 formation against top teams.
Against team United shall dominate. A more proactive and attack 433. I think and believe Mainoo. Back to fully fitness, top intensity and fighting spirit.
Having Mainoo + Casemiro or Amrabat will be good.
Against team United shall dominate. A more proactive and attack 433. I think and believe Mainoo. Back to fully fitness, top intensity and fighting spirit.
Having Mainoo + Casemiro or Amrabat will be good.
The least of our problems even when injured if he goes he goes but keeping him wouldn't harm us at all if we actually signed players in his position that are good not counting rubbish like Amrabat.
It'd be a mistake letting Varane and Casemiro go in my opinion. If we were to let them go, I'd do it in the summer 2025.
I think Varane is someone we could let go, free up a lot of wages and replace with someone with the requisite physical and technical skills we require at CB.
Replacing Casemiro is much much harder and something I wouldn’t be rushing to do this summer.
Both being let go would require a level of squad planning and transfer nous that we’ve sorely lacked.
Varane should face some criticism for his performances, and his fitness, I wholeheartedly agree.
But a defender of his calibre is a rarity, and we can see that in the right set up (i.e. with a partner like Licha next to him, and someone like Case in front of him), he's world class. We've only seen it in fleeting glimpses this season.
The other thing I'd say is we shouldn't be rash in letting first teamers go - given that pretty much our whole squad is and has been underperforming since the start of the season. I have no issue letting backups / 2nd or 3rd choice leave and replacing them with better - but the reality is that if we let Varane go, we're stuck playing Lindelof or Maguire for the majority of our games which isn't great or dropping a new replacement in the deep end in a tough league, with a toxic set up and rabid fanbase.
Now's the time for slow and steady squad planning in my opinion.
If Todibo is our CB target, by all means we should get him but it should be at the expense of our back ups, not first teamers for this period of time we're in.
I also agree Varane is a very very good CB.
He’s also only available 55% of the time (last I checked) which isn’t enough and his wages unfortunately are a barrier for any future investments in defence.
My preference would be don’t get rid of either and just take time to scout this properly.
I agree with this, these players aren't the problem contribution wise when fit and we shouldn't be in a rush to raplace them.
At CB it should be Maguire and Lindelof to leave for a new signing, with potential to start and then promote Kambwala for the back up role behind Varane and the New signing for RCB and them look to have Martinez, Shaw and Evans sharing the LCB role.
For DM we need to sign a bona fide Casemiro replacement/back up/competition who can do what we expected Amrabat to do for us. For the next three years Mainoo has to be managed well by starting here and there and hopefully in the summer of 25 he replaces Casemiro in the squad. At least by then he would have built up some strength and gained valuable experience.
We have far too many wage thieves that need to go before we sacrifice Casemiro and Varane. Martial, Antony, Sancho, VDB and McTominay all need to go before we offload those two. Sir Alex wouldn't offload Varane, he would manage him in a way that not only prolongs his career but also see to it that he is at his best when we do need him like he did with Rio.
Disagree. Varane at 350k pw is expected to be fit for 90% of the games. Are we getting it ?
Last 3 years, games played - 22, 24 ,11 so far and will be on 28 if he play all of the remaining games.
Not good enough to me.
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With you 100%
It all depends on the deal, Varane, Casemiro, Antony and Sancho are all hurting us with FFP, if it gives us more options for bringing players in then the trade off will be worth it.
Have to also consider the amount of games where both Varane and Casemiro have been unavailable, is that going to improve? with Varane I doubt it, Casemiro who knows, thing is with Casemiro there is no guarantee what player we will be getting looked a shadow of last season before he got injured.
I have no issue letting either or both go, I think Kambwala looks promising, and obviously Mainoo is tearing it up, would be happy seeing those both developing and spending any money/FFP leeway in getting the right players to get this team going again, however if we are just going to waste the money again then would prefer they stayed.
Antonio’s going to be hard to get rid of as he’s a walking meme of a player. Not even sure Saudi are silly enough to spend money on him. Most likely outcome is a loan move IMO and we just gotta pray he does at least average so we can get something for him the following year.
Were in a bad negotiating position for Sancho given his clear position on playing for ETH and the damage he’s done with the club too in how he’s handled himself. Then there’s his wages to deal with. Again it’s looking like it’s guna be a hard job getting anything decent for him unless he has a blinder over the next few months.
Ideally Casemiro stays another year as it increasingly looks like Varane will go and losing both of their experience wouldn’t be ideal. Unless Saudi come in with a massive bid, he should stay.
On their day both Casemiro and Verane are absolutely the Rolls Royce of players however, those days are few and far between. What we need are younger, hungrier players, wanting to run through brick walls for the club and can sustain 40+ matches a season unless of course there's a freak injury.
With the wages they both command I really feel we should move them on and invest it back in strengthening the squad.
With the wages they both command I really feel we should move them on and invest it back in strengthening the squad.
Antony and Sancho? How stupid do we think the Saudis are?
I hope we don’t lose Casemiro for at least one more full season. He has a role to play guiding younger talents as they integrate into our midfield, if he can recover his form in the 2nd half of this season.
Good morning
Goody goody goody morning
Helooooo
Goody goody goody morning
Helooooo
This summer if we can shift out Sancho, Casemiro, and Varane for decent fees, we should. Nothing against Cas and Rafa but both are on huge wages and their best days are behind them. If we can recoup a chunk of what we paid, we should. The three of them will pull a ton off the wage bill, plus Martial going too. It’s over a million quid a week for the four of them. Ideally I’d move on AWB, VdB and McT too, as well as sending back Ambrabat, to really streamline the squad, and then reinvest the money in some young and hungry players.
With all that happening we’d need, 2 cbs (one young for development), 2 cms (both starting quality), a RB (starting quality), a RW (starting quality - Olise?) and a rotational striker.
That’s 7 players at a minimum. 5 of them starting quality, 2 squad/emerging talents. That’s a lot in one summer, and we’ll have to be very smart about how we go about it. Use our scouting network well, get the right people in who bring targets and knowledge with them, and use data. We’ll need to unearth some gems. If we can get some of these players in at much lower wages than the outgoing lot (shouldn’t be hard!), it’ll increase the amount we can spend in transfer fees.
With all that happening we’d need, 2 cbs (one young for development), 2 cms (both starting quality), a RB (starting quality), a RW (starting quality - Olise?) and a rotational striker.
That’s 7 players at a minimum. 5 of them starting quality, 2 squad/emerging talents. That’s a lot in one summer, and we’ll have to be very smart about how we go about it. Use our scouting network well, get the right people in who bring targets and knowledge with them, and use data. We’ll need to unearth some gems. If we can get some of these players in at much lower wages than the outgoing lot (shouldn’t be hard!), it’ll increase the amount we can spend in transfer fees.
Him and Varane are costing 30m or more a year between them in wages,, they simply aren’t worth it. Neither have covered themselves in glory this season even when fit, don’t think they would be much of a loss going forward either, especially if weigh up the FFP benefits of getting rid.
Those two, Sancho and Martial have probably cost about a million a week in wages combined this season. It’s no wonder wages are out of control and struggling with FFP.
Those two, Sancho and Martial have probably cost about a million a week in wages combined this season. It’s no wonder wages are out of control and struggling with FFP.
I think Casemiro was United's best player in his first season and is much better than Amrabat. Casemiro is top 3 defensive midfielder in the world. I rate him very highly
But I hear he's addicted to betting and that United are scared. You never know. Makes sense
But I hear he's addicted to betting and that United are scared. You never know. Makes sense
No love for AWB? Personally think he’s way down the list of problems, like we need a triple heart bypass but have decided to get a boob job as well whilst we’re under
He had a spell in the middle where he looked great, but he started slowly, probably to be expected, but also finished the season in poor form also. Add in his 7 games or whatever he missed via suspension, his season last year wasn't as great as some like to think. For the wages he is on, I think we need to be expecting a much bigger return than the form he has shown.
Just our luck that players start coming out not enjoying life in Saudi when we finally start selling. We can’t catch a break at all but we have been our own worst enemy with how stupid we are with money and how slow we react to situations
He was still arguably our best player last season. The exact same post could be said about Rashford (our other "player of the season"), to be honest.
His poorer performances early season have made everyone believe he is finished, but our midfield tactics all season should show people how it's not just a case of Casemiro being finished, but rather suicidal midfield strategy exposing all who play in that deeper role for us.
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25M plus a bag of peanuts?
AWB is 26 so I can't see him going anywhere near Saudi, same goes for Sancho and Antony. The Saudi League is greatly overestimating there pull.
Casemiro is 32 next month so there might be a possibility to move him on for a big last payday, but that is all it would be.
Casemiro is 32 next month so there might be a possibility to move him on for a big last payday, but that is all it would be.
if we have trust in the new group coming in to sort out the transfers/recruitment of players then it would just make too much sense if we can shift casemiro for a good amount to saudis, as well as varane.
Case, Varane, Sancho, Antony. We could get about £200m there if we’re very lucky. Would soften the blow on having signed all that shite in the first place.
Big fan of Case, I only wish we'd landed him earlier. As I said in the AWB thread - this season is a bit of a write off already. If we get the opportunity to move on high earners / dross and free up room in the budget I'd be happy to see youngsters fill in for those remaining minutes.
We're not going to get relegated and we look very unlikely to get top 4/5. I'm fine with a midtable finish so long as we properly consolidate and start actually building for once.
We're not going to get relegated and we look very unlikely to get top 4/5. I'm fine with a midtable finish so long as we properly consolidate and start actually building for once.
I wouldn't rubbish Casemiro quite yet. Mainoo is the future but for now what Mainoo needs a solid 6 to learn from.
Casemiro next to Mainoo should be our main midfield for the end of this season and next season. Coaching and the system plays a huge part, and I think it's asked far too much of Casemiro along with his own form and sharpness not being the best earlier in the season. But put the 2 next to each other, have them play as an actual pairing (ten hag has to not be an idiot with how he coaches for this one, which I'm not convinced of), and I think it'd be fine. But given his wages and probably what we could get for him in terms of transfer fee, there's a conversation to be had if we should sell regardless. Especially considering us as a club should be starting a big rebuild in the summer where we focus on building with a younger group while fixing the wage bill. Sell Casemiro, replace with a younger midfielder like Andre if we think he has big potential, and have him and Mainoo work together as a long term pairing to develop and grow. Guys like Casemiro are a bit pointless if we are rebuilding and our league target will be a top 4 fight for a few years until we are actually ready to step up as a title challenge. He's a win now guy, and we are far away from that level. So if we get enough, then we should replace with someone younger & cheaper, fix the finances a bit, fix the wages.
They gave Hendo a contract of 700k a week. So i'd say very very stupid?Antony and Sancho? How stupid do we think the Saudis are?
I hope we don’t lose Casemiro for at least one more full season. He has a role to play guiding younger talents as they integrate into our midfield, if he can recover his form in the 2nd half of this season.