Casemiro (Out)

United888

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If £50m offer comes in, do we need to consider it. £50m plus his wages means there is good amount of budget to buy talented midfielder in winter transfer window.
 

DJ_21

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If £50m offer comes in, do we need to consider it. £50m plus his wages means there is good amount of budget to buy talented midfielder in winter transfer window.
We’ll be very lucky if we get that. We paid 60-70m for him.
 

tentan

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If both him or Varane is still here come February I'll be dissapointed.
 

Thiagoal

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Case, Varane, Sancho, Antony. We could get about £200m there if we’re very lucky. Would soften the blow on having signed all that shite in the first place.
I think you’re being wildly optimistic! We’d be lucky to get £100m from all four
 

Bondi77

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If £50m offer comes in, do we need to consider it. £50m plus his wages means there is good amount of budget to buy talented midfielder in winter transfer window.
We should get on our knees and pray if we can get 50mil for him and his wages off the books.
I called this from the start that it was madness to get this guy on a long contract and so many were creaming their pants when we brought him in.
 

Sunny Jim

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We should get on our knees and pray if we can get 50mil for him and his wages off the books.
I called this from the start that it was madness to get this guy on a long contract and so many were creaming their pants when we brought him in.
i like the player, i liked the fact he joind but the terms of his contract are just crazy. This Deal was the equivalnet of Chevrolet sponsorship contract. The guy who signed it got sacked soon after.
 

DavelinaJolie

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I wouldn't rubbish Casemiro quite yet. Mainoo is the future but for now what Mainoo needs a solid 6 to learn from.
I wouldn't rubbish him, no. But if there is a chance to move him on, get those wages off the books, and use those resources to bring in a younger player that will likely command less wages, it seems the smarter play in the long run.

We need to revamp the age profile of some key players in this team and whilst I can appreciate Casemiro's quality as it was last season, he's only going to get older and lose value. If the offer is there now I think they have to take it and go younger.
 

Gordon Godot

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I wouldn't rubbish him, no. But if there is a chance to move him on, get those wages off the books, and use those resources to bring in a younger player that will likely command less wages, it seems the smarter play in the long run.

We need to revamp the age profile of some key players in this team and whilst I can appreciate Casemiro's quality as it was last season, he's only going to get older and lose value. If the offer is there now I think they have to take it and go younger.
Yes,he was another terrible signing. A dozen or so good performances for a player whose legs are going, massive salary and 4 years (?) left on a contract. Classic short term panicked signing and we will need to supplement Mainoo as well as replace Eriksen.
 

DavelinaJolie

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Yes,he was another terrible signing. A dozen or so good performances for a player whose legs are going, massive salary and 4 years (?) left on a contract. Classic short term panicked signing and we will need to supplement Mainoo as well as replace Eriksen.
I'm not sure I'd call it terrible, he served a purpose for a season, but again it speaks to our Hodge podge squad planning of the last x seasons that leads us to repeat the process and constantly fill critical gaps in the same way. Casemiro, Varane and Eriksen are the key players I was thinking of in my comment. We should not be dependent on a player like Eriksen whose legs can't take him more than 60 minutes a week, as much as I like his technical ability when he is playing well.

Signing older marquee players isn't working, and if we want to play high intensity pressing football these signings aren't going to work out. I'm strongly of the opinion that we need to go younger, and stop signing these older players to long term contracts.
 

Brophs

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From the club’s perspective, it depends on if they think the last while has been poor form or signs of decline.

If the numbers are correct, he’s on around £350k per week plus whatever extras and loyalty bonuses are on there. So the cost of keeping him would be around £18.2m per year or £54.6m for the rest of his contract, with no resale value at the end of it. So between that and the suggested £50m fee United would have around £105m+ to replace him over his remaining 3 year term. So that’s around £60-70m available in fees (these are all very simplified numbers and don’t take account of things like amortisation and payment schedules, but you get the gist) for a new signing and around £200k per week, which is around £10m a year. Presumably with a resale value at the back end.

I can see it from both sides. Personally, I’m not convinced he’ll be anywhere near the level to justify £350k a week in year or two. But I think we’re far more likely to qualify for the CL this season if we get him playing well.
 

stevoc

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Wages/playing time is whacked could have something to do with it.
Personally I'd rather have our best and most experienced centreback and midfielder potentially available for the rest of the season vs wages sitting in a bank account. But I'm weird like that.
 

Bondi77

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Personally I'd rather have our best and most experienced centreback and midfielder potentially available for the rest of the season vs wages sitting in a bank account. But I'm weird like that.
I am sure they would be in agreement with you.
 

Ludens the Red

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I'm not sure I'd call it terrible, he served a purpose for a season, but again it speaks to our Hodge podge squad planning of the last x seasons that leads us to repeat the process and constantly fill critical gaps in the same way. Casemiro, Varane and Eriksen are the key players I was thinking of in my comment. We should not be dependent on a player like Eriksen whose legs can't take him more than 60 minutes a week, as much as I like his technical ability when he is playing well.

Signing older marquee players isn't working, and if we want to play high intensity pressing football these signings aren't going to work out. I'm strongly of the opinion that we need to go younger, and stop signing these older players to long term contracts.
Younger Like Martial, Sancho, Antony, Mount, Onana and Hojlund??

I think the truth is in the middle somewhere.

Other than the length of contract there wasn’t much wrong with that Casemiro deal. And at his best he’s been streets ahead of what these younger signings have given us. Who have all frankly up until this point been a session of disastrous signings.
We’re not going to get anywhere near our money back for Sancho, Onana, Antony and Mount so I’m not sure there’s a lot of tangible difference between having that be the case with a 30 something year old or a 20 something year old. Look at Arsenal and Pepe or Liverpool with Keita. Both ended up just fecking off on frees. We gave Martial a new contract four years ago and it’s been an absolute mess.

I’m by no means saying the club should be constantly signing older players. But it’s exaggerated how much we’ve done it and this notion that sticking to only younger players and never signing anyone over 27 is the route to success is incorrect.
If you look at our older marquee signings I’d actually argue there’s been more success than fails and again they’ve been miles better than their younger counterparts.
A few of them have also been free transfers.

I just think we’re at a point as club where we can’t turn our noses up at these experienced signings, especially with the managers we’ve had who are horrific at identifying actual decent footballers.
If we fix it above and not allow incompetent managers freedom of signings than yeah maybe we can have a more strict transfer policy but up until this point thank feck players like Ronaldo, Zlatan, Cavani, Casemiro, Eriksen and Varane were brought in otherwise we’d have been relying on absolute dross.
 

Son

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If both him or Varane is still here come February I'll be dissapointed.
Don’t get the hate for either apart from they are on high wages.

Both have performed for our club better than most of the squad the past 18 months. In fact since Varane has came back into the team he’s stabilised us a bit at the back.

I’d much rather Casemiro on the field than McTomminay that’s for sure too.

If we get big offers for either then sell but let’s not pretend they aren’t two of our top footballers. They 100% do make us stronger in the squad.
 

devilish

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Casemiro should be sold. He's a traditional type of DM, he's in his 30s and we all know that legs are the first to go. Whether we sell him now or in summer depends mostly on him, prospective buyers and the club. Does he wants to leave? Had the club identified an injury that he's carrying that might cripple a potential deal in summer if exposed? Are there any buyers willing to spend good money for him?
 

DavelinaJolie

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Younger Like Martial, Sancho, Antony, Mount, Onana and Hojlund??

I think the truth is in the middle somewhere.

Other than the length of contract there wasn’t much wrong with that Casemiro deal. And at his best he’s been streets ahead of what these younger signings have given us. Who have all frankly up until this point been a session of disastrous signings.
We’re not going to get anywhere near our money back for Sancho, Onana, Antony and Mount so I’m not sure there’s a lot of tangible difference between having that be the case with a 30 something year old or a 20 something year old. Look at Arsenal and Pepe or Liverpool with Keita. Both ended up just fecking off on frees. We gave Martial a new contract four years ago and it’s been an absolute mess.

I’m by no means saying the club should be constantly signing older players. But it’s exaggerated how much we’ve done it and this notion that sticking to only younger players and never signing anyone over 27 is the route to success is incorrect.
If you look at our older marquee signings I’d actually argue there’s been more success than fails and again they’ve been miles better than their younger counterparts.
A few of them have also been free transfers.

I just think we’re at a point as club where we can’t turn our noses up at these experienced signings, especially with the managers we’ve had who are horrific at identifying actual decent footballers.
If we fix it above and not allow incompetent managers freedom of signings than yeah maybe we can have a more strict transfer policy but up until this point thank feck players like Ronaldo, Zlatan, Cavani, Casemiro, Eriksen and Varane were brought in otherwise we’d have been relying on absolute dross.
I think signing younger players is part of what we need, but that's part of a cohesive strategy in recruitment. We currently have a range of players that don't really seem to fit in a cohesive style and that's a bigger issue with oscillating on different tactical approaches.

But I still stand on key players brought in really shouldn't be turning the wrong side of thirty. You can't plan long term around them without already thinking about succession. I didn't see a general problem with Casemiro provided they had a strategy in place to replace him, they didn't, and it's also contributing to a financial hole that will make replacing him more difficult if we can't sell him. Not every player is going to work out but better talent ID and a better decision making will hopefully mitigate the mistakes more effectively, and it should be easier to sell on players that don't hit the mark that are younger and not on £300k a week, than players that are 30+ and are on those wages where your only option is press the Saudi button and hope.

The older players you mentioned, what have they, long term, left us with? Needing to fill the gaps they create when they drop off much more quickly and being harder to move because of their situation. We then end up signing another older player and repeating the process, and through all of that what success have they actually brought? Basically some top four finishes in some cases and maybe a cup trophy. We've been in this cycle for years and it has left us a squad that isn't really anything.

As I said our squad planning is completely scattershot. I'm hopeful this will improve with a new footballing structure in place, though obviously that remains to be seen.
 

poleglass red

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we lack pace between central defence and centre mid. Our only option out of Evans, Martinez, Maguire, Varane, Casemiro, Eriksen, Mainoo, Fernandes, McT and Mount with pace is Varane, and even his isn't, what it once quite was. We need to address that. We've had people on another post calling for De Ligt, another player, good as he is, that is not blessed with pace. We have to assume Martinez will be a starter in central defence, great player but needs pace next to him to compliment his game. We have to assume that in coming years Mainoo will be a regular, again a great player, but not the quickest.
 

Ludens the Red

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I think signing younger players is part of what we need, but that's part of a cohesive strategy in recruitment. We currently have a range of players that don't really seem to fit in a cohesive style and that's a bigger issue with oscillating on different tactical approaches.

But I still stand on key players brought in really shouldn't be turning the wrong side of thirty. You can't plan long term around them without already thinking about succession. I didn't see a general problem with Casemiro provided they had a strategy in place to replace him, they didn't, and it's also contributing to a financial hole that will make replacing him more difficult if we can't sell him. Not every player is going to work out but better talent ID and a better decision making will hopefully mitigate the mistakes more effectively, and it should be easier to sell on players that don't hit the mark that are younger and not on £300k a week, than players that are 30+ and are on those wages where your only option is press the Saudi button and hope.

The older players you mentioned, what have they, long term, left us with? Needing to fill the gaps they create when they drop off much more quickly and being harder to move because of their situation. We then end up signing another older player and repeating the process, and through all of that what success have they actually brought? Basically some top four finishes in some cases and maybe a cup trophy. We've been in this cycle for years and it has left us a squad that isn't really anything.

As I said our squad planning is completely scattershot. I'm hopeful this will improve with a new footballing structure in place, though obviously that remains to be seen.
That’s what I’m getting at. Until we actually have a proper cohesive transfer strategy and or an actual competent football manager I believe we will have to be more open to these kind of signings because they are almost guaranteed short term successes.
You state those players were hard to shift but Cavani, Zlatan both left after contracts expired. They only got 1-2 year deals. Ronaldo was always going to be bought by someone. It’s only really Casemiro we’ve put on an overly long term deal. I think at the time as well there was a lot of hope on Martial, Rashford and Greenwood and so signing someone like Cavani was seen as a good deal. Unfortunately all three of those players have let us down massively. Even after Zlatan, we had Lukaku planned as the long term centre forward and he failed. I dunno, like I get what you’re saying but I just feel where the club is now and where it will be in the next year I wouldn’t be against keeping on/bringing in those experienced been there done that pros. Until we get that core group of 22-25 year olds that we can build on for years anyway.
 

Dan_F

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It is quite funny that Casemiro is now considered past it, even though we’ve seen every single version of Ten Hag’s midfield dominated without him. Chances are it’s probably not his level dropping considerably and more likely the awful midfield set up that we are continually persisting with.

A team that is so useless at retaining possession simply cannot play a one man midfield like he was being asked to do. City don’t even do that with Rodri, they get a full back to step alongside him.
 

FerociousCorgis

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It is quite funny that Casemiro is now considered past it, even though we’ve seen every single version of Ten Hag’s midfield dominated without him. Chances are it’s probably not his level dropping considerably and more likely the awful midfield set up that we are continually persisting with.

A team that is so useless at retaining possession simply cannot play a one man midfield like he was being asked to do. City don’t even do that with Rodri, they get a full back to step alongside him.
i mean were we even "dominating" the midfield even with Casemiro last season? I dont recall that being the case, could be wrong with how long ago that feels. Even with Casemiro last season we were incredibly up and down throughout the season. A good offer comes in from Saudis and we would be absolutely foolish not to take it
 

Dan_F

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i mean were we even "dominating" the midfield even with Casemiro last season? I dont recall that being the case, could be wrong with how long ago that feels. Even with Casemiro last season we were incredibly up and down throughout the season. A good offer comes in from Saudis and we would be absolutely foolish not to take it
We were better, but he was playing out of his skin for a few months after his debut, masking the actual quality of the set up. We did play a bit more conservatively too.
 

Dr Foo

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It is quite funny that Casemiro is now considered past it, even though we’ve seen every single version of Ten Hag’s midfield dominated without him. Chances are it’s probably not his level dropping considerably and more likely the awful midfield set up that we are continually persisting with.

A team that is so useless at retaining possession simply cannot play a one man midfield like he was being asked to do. City don’t even do that with Rodri, they get a full back to step alongside him.
Correct me if I am wrong, but don’t we also try to get our left back to tuck in, just that we don’t do it well/ don’t have the right players for it/ don’t push up together high enough etc
 

stepic

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The more money we can reinvest into younger players the better. Get rid please. His value will only continue to drop as he regresses further
 

MJay

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Find it very bizarre how the narrative around Case has changed this fast. Is it Carragher's weird obsession of convincing everyone that it is the biggest waste of money in PL history? Last time Carra did it was in the latest Overlap episode.

The man played 10 matches in total, 8 in the premier league, in a very disjointed system that isolated him and made him, and would have made any player on earth, look off the pace and struggling to cover 30 and 40 metres of grass every time the opposition wins the ball.

Of course he deserves criticism for not playing well YET this season, in 8 matches. With the recent tactical tweaks, and the reports of Sir Jim demanding top 4 (or 5), I think ten Hag will revert to a system that fits and is built around the best players in the team, including more protection for Casemiro.

It's also worth remembering he was scapegoated plenty of times at Madrid. He would then end up being the most important player that season, nearly every single season.

8 matches! Finished? Come on.
 

Dan_F

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Correct me if I am wrong, but don’t we also try to get our left back to tuck in, just that we don’t do it well/ don’t have the right players for it/ don’t push up together high enough etc
We tried it properly earlier in the season and it was a disaster. Dalot does it occasionally now.
 

horsechoker

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Find it very bizarre how the narrative around Case has changed this fast. Is it Carragher's weird obsession of convincing everyone that it is the biggest waste of money in PL history? Last time Carra did it was in the latest Overlap episode.

The man played 10 matches in total, 8 in the premier league, in a very disjointed system that isolated him and made him, and would have made any player on earth, look off the pace and struggling to cover 30 and 40 metres of grass every time the opposition wins the ball.

Of course he deserves criticism for not playing well YET this season, in 8 matches. With the recent tactical tweaks, and the reports of Sir Jim demanding top 4 (or 5), I think ten Hag will revert to a system that fits and is built around the best players in the team, including more protection for Casemiro.

It's also worth remembering he was scapegoated plenty of times at Madrid. He would then end up being the most important player that season, nearly every single season.

8 matches! Finished? Come on.
He hasn't played alongside Mainoo yet right?
 

MJay

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He hasn't played alongside Mainoo yet right?
No sir I don't think he has. The opportunity to even try it has barely been there due to injuries and other circumstances.

I'm pretty sure EtH spoke about Amrabat being able to play alongside Casemiro when he was first signed. Amrabat has not had the chance to have a good run in the team, therefore I see no reason why EtH would not apply the same thinking to Mainoo. In fact, I think he's nearly obliged to do that at this point as he has tried all combinations in midfield, none of which have been a success, except Mainoo- Casemiro.

Not to be overly dramatic but.. ten Hag will probably lose his job if he insists on it being either Case or Amrabat or Mainoo as a single holding midfielder. I hope it does not happen, but if ten Hag is replaced, I can bet on the next manager playing them both in midfield from the first match.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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I wouldn’t sell. Glad to have him back and while he was slightly rusty, he wasn’t bad overall today. Much better than watching McTomminay play!
 

Buster15

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I wouldn’t sell. Glad to have him back and while he was slightly rusty, he wasn’t bad overall today. Much better than watching McTomminay play!
Quite agree.
Mainoo looked much more assured with Casemiro along side him.