Ched Evans

[charleysurf]

From what I understand his entire argument is that he disagrees with what rape actually is, the legal definition of it. He's never going to show remorse and I don't think he should be accepted back into football until he does.

So in your view anyone convicted of a crime must be punished until they admit their guilt? Whatever about Ched Evans, that seems an attitude that belongs in North Korea, or 1984.

 

[Tarrou]

Because what qualifies as a "high profile" job is such an arbitrary and spiteful concept. What if he revolutionises road sweeping or refuse collection and makes billions within a year? Do we asset strip him and stop papers publishing stories about it? The wealth and fame doesn't come into it for a reason, because it's entirely subjective.


He's making an (accurate) comment about the way she operates and behaves as a journalist. It's not a targeted, coordinated attack on her right to do what she likes within the law. They're considerably different.

Yeah I agree they are different. To be honest, I didn't know she was a journalist as I've never heard of her. What I'm insinuating is that newspapers like the Daily Mail are partly responsible for the hate created towards certain people in the public eye.

 

[Dion]

Yeah I agree they are different. To be honest, I didn't know she was a journalist as I've never heard of her. What I'm insinuating is that newspapers like the Daily Mail are partly responsible for the hate created towards certain people in the public eye.

That I agree on, which is all the more astounding that a voice of reason is coming from them. Admittedly it's probably just because they know public opinion is divided now which will give them exposure based on both agreement and outrage.

 

[Joey Mac]

He obviously has a right to work.

He has absolutely no right to expect to get work in the same way he did before he raped someone though.

 

[Dion]

He has absolutely no right to expect to get work in the same way he did before he raped someone though.

Less money, probably a worse club now, lost 2 years of his career and training. Not sure how it would be physically possible to not play for 2 years and return in the same way.

I'll ask this again: Is there any actual reason he shouldn't be allowed to return to football that doesn't involve peoples personally objection to a rapist being famous/wealthy?

 

[Getsme]

Less money, probably a worse club now, lost 2 years of his career and training. Not sure how it would be physically possible to not play for 2 years and return in the same way.

I'll ask this again: Is there any actual reason he shouldn't be allowed to return to football that doesn't involve peoples personally objection to a rapist being famous/wealthy?

No legal reason no.

 

[Joey Mac]

Less money, probably a worse club now, lost 2 years of his career and training. Not sure how it would be physically possible to not play for 2 years and return in the same way.

I'll ask this again: Is there any actual reason he shouldn't be allowed to return to football that doesn't involve peoples personally objection to a rapist being famous/wealthy?

The fact he's a sexual offender does not preclude a career in football. And he is allowed to return to football, no one is stopping anyone from employing him, simply questioning whether it's right to do so.

If he'd shown contrition for what he'd done, or at the least condemned those abusing and continuing to ruin the life of the victim, then I don't think we'd be seeing the reaction we have.

 

[Dion]

If he'd shown contrition for what he'd done, or at the least condemned those abusing and continuing to ruin the life of the victim, then I don't think we'd be seeing the reaction we have.

True, he's behaved appallingly since, however not illegally. But in what country in the world would a justice system that allowed and legislated for indefinite punishment until guilt was admitted be acceptable?

 

[Mrs Smoker]

True, he's behaved appallingly since, however not illegally.

How he behaved appallingly since?

There's really no point in him addressing the trolls, and he has shown contrition, though, as he believes he's innocent, not for the rape, but for cheating.

 

[Jippy]

He is out on license for 2.5 years so he is still serving a sentence, I don't see why he should get such a high profile job during that time.

So he's only allowed a job that presumably the baying mob believe is sufficiently menial to be beneath them?

Pretty good generally, mate, I think but I do get a bit tired of the whole 'star journalist/columnist' thing going on in recent years - I'm more interested in what they write rather than any **** of personality thing.

Know what you mean. The amount some of the columnists earn is unbelievable. She is pretty good though- still a shame the Guardian lost Charlie Brooker and Simon Hoggart (albeit for somewhat different reasons, obviously).

 

[Dion]

How he behaved appallingly since?

There's really no point in him addressing the trolls, and he has shown contrition, though, as he believes he's innocent, not for the rape, but for cheating.

Allowing the site to remain up and not condemning the amount of abuse she's getting is pretty scummy, there's no getting around it. You can maintain your innocence without shame the victim.

The correct way to attempt to prove your innocence is to go through the official appeals process, not make videos for a crass website.

 

[peterstorey]

Not notmally a Marina Hyde fan- find her restaurant reviews a bit catty, for example- but she speaks a lot of sense there.

Don't think the gorgeous, pouting Ms Hyde is a foodie. Are you mixing her up with Marina O'Loughlin: ‘Smoking Goat serves the ultimate pisshead food, bashing its way through the booze with a mighty mallet of heat and fat, spice and salt and smoke’.

 

[FC Ronaldo]

It's happening...

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[NotoriousISSY]

Is he meant to be appealing? I'd have thought any interested clubs would put it off until that's over and done with given the likely sponsor issues, general bad press and all the noise it'll generate.

It's not the first time Oldham have done this though is it?

 

[Marching]

I'll ask this again: Is there any actual reason he shouldn't be allowed to return to football that doesn't involve peoples personally objection to a rapist being famous/wealthy?

I can't believe this question STILL needs asking. How many more times do people have to be told that NOBODY is stopping Evans getting a job. It is down to a club offering him a contract and being prepared to take the fallout from those who protest about him returning to football and sponsors taking their money away from the club.

Both have a perfect right to protest and remove their sponsorship BUT it can not stop a club taking Evans on.

It does seem Evans father in law is stumping up the cash that Oldham will lose from sponsors jumping ship.

I'll be glad when he gets back to work and we can forget all about him.

 

[Nighteyes]

Is he meant to be appealing? I'd have thought any interested clubs would put it off until that's over and done with given the likely sponsor issues, general bad press and all the noise it'll generate.

It's not the first time Oldham have done this though is it?

In a couple of months everything will be forgotten and media will look to something else to create a massive issue about.

 

[Jippy]

Don't think the gorgeous, pouting Ms Hyde is a foodie. Are you mixing her up with Marina O'Loughlin: ‘Smoking Goat serves the ultimate pisshead food, bashing its way through the booze with a mighty mallet of heat and fat, spice and salt and smoke’.

She's a damn site more creative in her prose than John Lanchester. I think I was thinking about him- seem to remember taking Marina Hyde along to a few of his restaurant visits.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Forget the rape stuff a sec..

Why do clubs want to sign him anyway? He's rubbish!

And he will be even more so now having been out the game for a couple of years.

 

[Tarrou]

Forget the rape stuff a sec..

Why do clubs want to sign him anyway? He's rubbish!

And he will be even more so now having been out the game for a couple of years.

Nah, he's a very good striker at league 1 level.

 

[sullydnl]

I can't believe this question STILL needs asking. How many more times do people have to be told that NOBODY is stopping Evans getting a job. It is down to a club offering him a contract and being prepared to take the fallout from those who protest about him returning to football and sponsors taking their money away from the club.

Both have a perfect right to protest and remove their sponsorship BUT it can not stop a club taking Evans on.

It does seem Evans father in law is stumping up the cash that Oldham will lose from sponsors jumping ship.

I'll be glad when he gets back to work and we can forget all about him.

Nobody is actually stopping Evans but that opinion (that he shouldn't be allowed to return to football) has been advanced in various places so it's probably a fair idea to discuss even if it isn't actually being enacted.

 

[finneh]

I can't believe this question STILL needs asking. How many more times do people have to be told that NOBODY is stopping Evans getting a job. It is down to a club offering him a contract and being prepared to take the fallout from those who protest about him returning to football and sponsors taking their money away from the club.

Both have a perfect right to protest and remove their sponsorship BUT it can not stop a club taking Evans on.

It does seem Evans father in law is stumping up the cash that Oldham will lose from sponsors jumping ship.

I'll be glad when he gets back to work and we can forget all about him.

That will take a while. The story is clearly very newsworthy so the media will do their best to run story after story about him. His first game will be big news; the first protest post-signing; the first goal he scores; the first time his fans chant something vile about what he'll do to defences; when opposing managers are asked their opinion on a weekly basis; his first man of the match interview etcetc.

That's assuming he doesn't do exceptionally well for them. If so you can guarantee chairmen of other League 1 clubs will be giving interviews about how Oldham are essentially cheating other clubs; whilst those quotes will be rehashed and again put to Evans/Oldham's manager during interviews.

This one is going to become very, very boring (if it isn't already).

 

[RedRover]

Whilst I agree with the last bit. He has not served his time. He has served half in prison and is currently serving the rest in the community. For me, I think the issue is that Football today is such a privileged job for those that are able to compete at a high level. The rewards are immense and those of us doing an ordinary job can not even comprehend how much they earn. Whether people like it or not, players are role models and most probably live an a world where they believe they can do no wrong (probably through hangers on and agents etc) - though that is speculation on my part. I think it is very hard for many people who have committed a crime to restart their lives, his case is not helped by what he does for a living. That being said, I am saddened by the way some people also use the free speech and mob mentality to defend him and further ruin the life of the victim and she is a victim. He himself has shown no remorse despite being convicted and an appeal turned down.

You make valid points, but to me the issue of how much they earn shouldnt be relevant and nor should the fact that he has served half his sentence. According to the law of the land he's free to be out of prison and free to work, as anyone would be from a bloke who flips burgers in McDonalds to an offshore worker or a City Banker, the last to potentially earning more money than he will be in league 1.

It seems people are looking to football to punish him because they dont feel that the law has punished him as much as it should. That isnt football's job and people should direct their anger elsewhere. It is not up to football to be the moral beacon for the world. That way lies madness because generally footballers, like a lot of rich young people, get up to all kinds of unsavory stuff. Dads still take their kids to cheer on racists, homophobes and blokes who shag prostitues and or do drugs.

The people berating and bothering the victim are disgusting human beings, but that is not his fault. And in terms of an apology he evidently believes he is not guilty and is pursuing an appeal - one which seemingly has legs given that is being fast tracked by the relevant review commision. He cannot therefore make any comment or otherwise when those proceedings are ongoing.

He's in a lose/lose position - don't apologise and be accused of showing no remorse, apologise and still pursue his appeal he's accused of not being sorry anyway.

Perhaps its best for everyone if he waits until the outcome of the appeal is known. That may be the best way to go, and it looks like that's what will happen anyway.

 

[Marching]

That will take a while. The story is clearly very newsworthy so the media will do their best to run story after story about him. His first game will be big news; the first protest post-signing; the first goal he scores; the first time his fans chant something vile about what he'll do to defences; when opposing managers are asked their opinion on a weekly basis; his first man of the match interview etcetc.

That's assuming he doesn't do exceptionally well for them. If so you can guarantee chairmen of other League 1 clubs will be giving interviews about how Oldham are essentially cheating other clubs; whilst those quotes will be rehashed and again put to Evans/Oldham's manager during interviews.

This one is going to become very, very boring (if it isn't already).

You're right....wishful thinking on my part.

 

[RedRover]

Judge in Liam Stacy's case. It's troubling.

It is, because the law should not be a fluid concept managed by the general public, a lot of whom are capable of being manipulated by the mass media. In general the fear there is that the better connected you are, and the more money you have the easier it is to avoid justice, and while there will always be perceived to be an element of that, it needs to be kept to an absolute minimum.

 

[RedRover]

Yeah I agree they are different. To be honest, I didn't know she was a journalist as I've never heard of her. What I'm insinuating is that newspapers like the Daily Mail are partly responsible for the hate created towards certain people in the public eye.

Not just people in the public eye - anyone from Eastern Europe, Nigeria or other central african states and the poor/those on benefits/smokers/fat people are also regular targets for the Daily Mail.

They're such hypocrites as well, trying to be the shining light of some moral crusade yet carrying pictures of teenage (and in some cases younger) celebrities ini bikini's. Its a disgusting rag.

 

[finneh]

It is, because the law should not be a fluid concept managed by the general public, a lot of whom are capable of being manipulated by the mass media. In general the fear there is that the better connected you are, and the more money you have the easier it is to avoid justice, and while there will always be perceived to be an element of that, it needs to be kept to an absolute minimum.

Indirectly the media dictate the law anyway. The media push issues; which then get people riled up; which are then consequently debated in Parliament; new laws are then made to reflect public opinion. These laws are usually just watered down policies the media have pushed, however the media would argue they merely push issues that are popular with the people, which are therefore what the electorate want.

It's basically modern democracy.

 

[sparky]

He's served his time to the extent that was required by the justice system before being allowed to return to employment. What more do you expect him to do? Wilfully abstain from employment for the next few years or demand to be allowed to serve out the rest of his sentence?

As for the point you made above about him showing no remorse, of course he hasn't. He thinks he's innocent. He has to be allowed to continue protesting his innocence even if nobody else agrees with him. In fact I'd imagine his legal team would be dead set against him showing any sort of remorse given that he's still appealing his conviction....

I did not say he should abstain from employment. I was pointing out that he actually has not served all of his sentence yet. Lots of people who are still in prison are let out to work everyday. I know, I work in one.

 

[sparky]

You make valid points, but to me the issue of how much they earn shouldnt be relevant and nor should the fact that he has served half his sentence. According to the law of the land he's free to be out of prison and free to work, as anyone would be from a bloke who flips burgers in McDonalds to an offshore worker or a City Banker, the last to potentially earning more money than he will be in league 1.

It seems people are looking to football to punish him because they dont feel that the law has punished him as much as it should. That isnt football's job and people should direct their anger elsewhere. It is not up to football to be the moral beacon for the world. That way lies madness because generally footballers, like a lot of rich young people, get up to all kinds of unsavory stuff. Dads still take their kids to cheer on racists, homophobes and blokes who shag prostitues and or do drugs.

The people berating and bothering the victim are disgusting human beings, but that is not his fault. And in terms of an apology he evidently believes he is not guilty and is pursuing an appeal - one which seemingly has legs given that is being fast tracked by the relevant review commision. He cannot therefore make any comment or otherwise when those proceedings are ongoing.

He's in a lose/lose position - don't apologise and be accused of showing no remorse, apologise and still pursue his appeal he's accused of not being sorry anyway.

Perhaps its best for everyone if he waits until the outcome of the appeal is known. That may be the best way to go, and it looks like that's what will happen anyway.

Not sure if his appeal has legs, he lost his last one. I wonder what he is appealing on? Hopefully not a technicality. Yes it probably is best to wait. But you know what really gets me? I have seen people who have committed fraud get longer sentences for rape and they usually go straight out to a decent job.

 

[sullydnl]

I did not say he should abstain from employment. I was pointing out that he actually has not served all of his sentence yet. Lots of people who are still in prison are let out to work everyday. I know, I work in one.

Ha, I didn't actually think you wanted him to abstain from employment, my point was that I'm not sure how the fact that he hasn't served his full sentence is relevant when he's obviously served enough of his time to satisfy the justice system. I've seen a few people make that point but I don't really get what the practical application of it is here. What difference does it make?

 

[Señor]

Oh God, this is getting boring. Can't even turn on the news without seeing something about Evans.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

A small sample of the opinion of some Oldham Athletic fans:

http://www.owtb.co.uk/index.php/topic/46522-the-boycott-of-home-matches/


Presumably Lee Johnson has pushed for this offer to be made to Ched Evans, that decision could end up leaving a taint for the remainder of his career.

 

[FujiVice]

Why would anyone put their neck on the line for Ched Evans? You cant even make the argument about "well, Suarez is a great player". This is likely to do Oldham far more harm than good. From sponsorship, licensing and general perception Oldman are going to be far worse off for bringing him in.

 

[Jippy]

A small sample of the opinion of some Oldham Athletic fans:

http://www.owtb.co.uk/index.php/topic/46522-the-boycott-of-home-matches/


Presumably Lee Johnson has pushed for this offer to be made to Ched Evans, that decision could end up leaving a taint for the remainder of his career.

Opinion appears pretty split tbh. An opportunist here too.

As someone who struggles to make every home game nowadays due to finance issues. If any season ticket holders don't wish to attend. Maybe we could agree on a deal for the no longer used ticket?

Maybe getting way ahead of myself but I will be going when I can no matter

 

[mu4c_20le]

Why would anyone put their neck on the line for Ched Evans?

I for one find it refreshing that a club is standing for what they believe in. Our society is not run by an angry, vocal minority.

 

[stu_1992]

Shame on Oldham is what I think. I've said it before, of course you can't stop someone from working once they have served their time, but it should not be such a public job where he is in a position to be a role model to children. Makes it very difficult to support a club like that, and this could blemish a few people's reputations there.

 

[FujiVice]

I for one find it refreshing that a club is standing for what they believe in. Our society is not run by an angry, vocal minority.

If you want to take the high ground and make a stand against "THE MAN", probably better off starting with something other than a convicted rapist in fairness. I'm all for standing up for what you believe in. There's a world of difference between standing up for what you believe in and gainfully employing a rapist.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

I for one find it refreshing that a club is standing for what they believe in. Our society is not run by an angry, vocal minority.

Cynically acquiring a footballer on the cheap you mean, with him desperate and most unwilling to go near?

 

[sullydnl]

Shame on Oldham is what I think. I've said it before, of course you can't stop someone from working once they have served their time, but it should not be such a public job where he is in a position to be a role model to children. Makes it very difficult to support a club like that, and this could blemish a few people's reputations there.

The role model debate is an interesting one.

On the one hand there's no doubt that clubs do like to present their players as role models, which definitely counts against their protestations that they're being held to a higher standard than everyone else. Basically, if you put effort into presenting yourself as a community based club with excellent values then you can't complain when people object to you hiring a convicted rapist.

On the other hand, I see no reason to believe that the hiring of Ched Evans will corrode the morality of the children supporting the club. Is there any actual evidence to support that idea?

 

[Dion]

On the other hand, I see no reason to believe that the hiring of Ched Evans will corrode the morality of the children supporting the club. Is there any actual evidence to support that idea?

Of course not, because if there was it would be on the list of regulated activities.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Shame on Oldham for even thinking about offering him a contract, they are going to pay for their decision with lost sponsors and I suspect lost fans.
While I do think that once you have paid for your crime and done your time you should be left to get on with your life, but this arsehole has not done his time and he is showing no remorse for what he did, not even a sorry, if fact he sticks to the line he did nothing wrong.
In have not read the ins and outs of the case and to be honest I dont want to, should the women gone to the hotel room with him , no possible not but she did and the rest is history.
Maybe the offer from Malta would of been the best one for him.