Chelsea 2020/21 - General discussion

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I have said it before since start of season, I never understand why lot of people are scared with Chelsea. They weren't signing Van Dijk, Mbappe or Neymar ffs. They were signings 36 years old Thiago Silva, Havertz, Werner. Some quality and talented but they are nothing special to be afraid of.

Havertz is playing too deep. His quality is when in the box scoring goals, he will be less effective if he's not playing further forward.

 

[brzez]

I can’t embed media but here’s a link to Jamie Redknapp saying that Solskjaer is a very lucky manager that shouldn’t manage Man United, yet today in Sky Sports studio, he’s begging and crying that Lampard should get more time. If this don’t prove that there’s an agenda, I don’t know what else you need.

(Around 7:00)
(YouTube) /9uNu3qS9o60

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Pretty ridiculous to have Lampards fecking cousin as the only pundit in the studio, of course he's going to defend his family!

 

[SadlerMUFC]

When I saw Chelsea's line up today my first thought was "wtf is Lampard thinking?". It was way too offensive and was going to play right into Leicester's hands. A midfield of Mount and Havertz? If he insists on playing both then one should be on the wing, not in the middle. But he's a media darling so I'm sure the pundits will continue to make excuses for him while putting down Ole at every chance they get...

 

[SadlerMUFC]

I have said it before since start of season, I never understand why lot of people are scared with Chelsea. They weren't signing Van Dijk, Mbappe or Neymar ffs. They were signings 36 years old Thiago Silva, Havertz, Werner. Some quality and talented but they are nothing special to be afraid of.

Havertz is playing too deep. His quality is when in the box scoring goals, he will be less effective if he's not playing further forward.

I thought if they could get adjusted to the EPL quick enough they could be good. There is a ton of talent on that team. Lampard just has to figure out how to use it and also realize that he can't start a game with a midfield that has both Havertz and Mount. He also has to realize that Giroud is his best #9. Hell, he can start for France so I'm sure he can start for Chelsea...

 

[charlenefan]

Has Glaston's hotel in India had a sudden swarm of Chelsea fans tonight? They're very quiet

 

[stubie]

I can’t embed media but here’s a link to Jamie Redknapp saying that Solskjaer is a very lucky manager that shouldn’t manage Man United, yet today in Sky Sports studio, he’s begging and crying that Lampard should get more time. If this don’t prove that there’s an agenda, I don’t know what else you need.

(Around 7:00)
(YouTube) /9uNu3qS9o60

They’re cousins! Not to mention Frank is guaranteed a free pass with the English media.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I thought if they could get adjusted to the EPL quick enough they could be good. There is a ton of talent on that team. Lampard just has to figure out how to use it and also realize that he can't start a game with a midfield that has both Havertz and Mount. He also has to realize that Giroud is his best #9. Hell, he can start for France so I'm sure he can start for Chelsea...

I'm not saying they are shit. You are right on there are talents and very promising but I don't see them as anything better than ours, should equal or may be slightly worse. This is where I don't understand why people overhyped them but not ours. Unless if you are talking about Mbappe, Neymar and Van Dijk signings then I can understand why people said they are scary and better than us in both current ability & talent but they weren't signing Mbappe, Neymar VVD level of players.

 

[el3mel]

They need an absolute miracle to finish top 4 this season. They're simply not good enough.

 

[Chief123]

A squad better due to one man who left.

Also Ole inherited a squad that finished 2nd the season prior.

Bit of a weird post considering Fat Frank inherited a squad which were premier league champions just 2 summers before he was made manager and majority of players still in the squad.

Ole inherited a team containing Dalot, Darmian, Young, Lingard in its most recent lineup with Martial and Pogba looking for the exit door. Don’t think there’s any excuses for Fat Frank and the shit show they are producing right now.

 

[Chief123]

I'm just baffled by the amount of money they've wasted on average players

It’s not really that baffling. They have history. They’ve become specialists at it. Shevchenko, Torres and Kepa said Hello.

 

[el3mel]

Are Chelsea fans now playing the "our squad isn't good" to defend Lampard? After the ton of money spent in the market it's a disaster they are 8th in the table and lost 6 fecking games out of 19.

 

[Dancfc]

Bit of a weird post considering Fat Frank inherited a squad which were premier league champions just 2 summers before he was made manager and majority of players still in the squad.

Ole inherited a team containing Dalot, Darmian, Young, Lingard in its most recent lineup with Martial and Pogba looking for the exit door. Don’t think there’s any excuses for Fat Frank and the shit show they are producing right now.

The Conte title winning team had 5 world class players. Courtois, Azpi, Kante, Hazard, Costa plus an elite creator in Cesc. By the time Lampard arrived 4 of them were gone and the other 2 were shadows of their prime self. Not to mention support players who were also important in that title win like Cahill and Pedro were also gone or declined and that's before i get into the summer window of 17 which set us back.

So no, the team he inherited were nothing like the 2017 title winning side. And i'm not making excuses for this season and i believe his jobs untenable at this point but i'm not having the playing down of last season, under the circumstances faced we did as good as about can be reasonably expected.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Bit of a weird post considering Fat Frank inherited a squad which were premier league champions just 2 summers before he was made manager and majority of players still in the squad.

Ole inherited a team containing Dalot, Darmian, Young, Lingard in its most recent lineup with Martial and Pogba looking for the exit door. Don’t think there’s any excuses for Fat Frank and the shit show they are producing right now.

I mean, the attack that took us to that title was basically Diego Costa + Hazard, neither of whom were there when Lampard took over. And if we're talking about dross in the squad, nothing tops Danny Drinkwater on a 6 figure per week contract.

Agreed that there's no excuses now for Lampard. I just think the job has changed and now it's beyond him - he was good at bringing young players through and building their confidence, but now he's clueless as to how to manage top class players from abroad. They're different problems. His approach has been non-sensical - what exactly has Zouma done to deserve being dropped like a sack of potatoes? Incidentally, for Leicester's second goal if Zouma is there that first header is going 30 yards the other way instead of being popped up in the air by Rudiger.

Are Chelsea fans now playing the "our squad isn't good" to defend Lampard? After the ton of money spent in the market it's a disaster they are 8th in the table and lost 6 fecking games out of 19.

Haven't seen that anywhere mate. Chelsea fans right now seem split between thinking we should give Lampard a chance to fix things for the rest of the season versus sacking him now.

 

[el3mel]

I mean, the attack that took us to that title was basically Diego Costa + Hazard, neither of whom were there when Lampard took over. And if we're talking about dross in the squad, nothing tops Danny Drinkwater on a 6 figure per week contract.

Agreed that there's no excuses now for Lampard. I just think the job has changed and now it's beyond him - he was good at bringing young players through and building their confidence, but now he's clueless as to how to manage top class players from abroad. They're different problems. His approach has been non-sensical - what exactly has Zouma done to deserve being dropped like a sack of potatoes? Incidentally, for Leicester's second goal if Zouma is there that first header is going 30 yards the other way instead of being popped up in the air by Rudiger.



Haven't seen that anywhere mate. Chelsea fans right now seem split between thinking we should give Lampard a chance to fix things for the rest of the season versus sacking him now.

I was talking about comparing the squad Lampard inherited to Ole's one.

I really don't see this Lampard's experience going anywhere. The target this season should have been top 3 or at least a comfortable top 4 finish. This is way below the bar set by the last marker. No reason to even think he can bring this team to a title challenge if he can't even secure a comfortable top 4 finish with all this quality.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I was talking about comparing the squad Lampard inherited to Ole's one.

I really don't see this Lampard's experience going anywhere. The target this season should have been top 4 or at least a comfortable top 4 finish. This is way below the bar set by the last marker. No reason to even think he can bring this team to a title challenge if he can't even secure a comfortable top 4 finish with all this quality.

I agree that he has no excuses and completely agree about the targets for this season. I also think that this is a new and different challenge compared to the one he had last year which is my point - Lampard objectively did a good job getting us to 4th when we were projected to be competing for a EL place. Now he's doing an objectively bad job with a team that has at worst the 4th most talent in the league.

 

[Chief123]

The Conte title winning team had 5 world class players. Courtois, Azpi, Kante, Hazard, Costa plus an elite creator in Cesc. By the time Lampard arrived 4 of them were gone and the other 2 were shadows of their prime self. Not to mention support players who were also important in that title win like Cahill and Pedro were also gone or declined and that's before i get into the summer window of 17 which set us back.

So no, the team he inherited were nothing like the 2017 title winning side. And i'm not making excuses for this season and i believe his jobs untenable at this point but i'm not having the playing down of last season, under the circumstances faced we did as good as about can be reasonably expected.

I agree in that Chelsea certainly over achieved last season and beat all expectations. Most people doubted they would even make top 6 at the beginning of the season. But I also believe that scenario benefited Frank. He had zero pressure for the season. It was a case of do as well as you can and let’s see where we end up.

But as soon as the big money came in the summer, the pressure was immediately on him to get the best out of them as he had no excuses now. In that aspect he has failed miserably. Werner and Havertz have been terrible so far but on the same hand they aren’t as bad as they are showing. Frank is clearly out of his depth right now and investing so much in all the players he wanted in the summer has not paid off and could be a very expensive failure because no doubt any new manager coming in will not want half the signings and will want similar investment himself.

 

[Dancfc]

I agree in that Chelsea certainly over achieved last season and beat all expectations. Most people doubted they would even make top 6 at the beginning of the season. But I also believe that scenario benefited Frank. He had zero pressure for the season. It was a case of do as well as you can and let’s see where we end up.

But as soon as the big money came in the summer, the pressure was immediately on him to get the best out of them as he had no excuses now. In that aspect he has failed miserably. Werner and Havertz have been terrible so far but on the same hand they aren’t as bad as they are showing. Frank is clearly out of his depth right now and investing so much in all the players he wanted in the summer has not paid off and could be a very expensive failure because no doubt any new manager coming in will not want half the signings and will want similar investment himself.

Can't argue with that apart from the signing's bit (get to that in a minute), when you consider the expectations last season compared to this he's almost for all intents and purposes had a move from a middle ish club/team to a huge one, overachieved when the heat wasn't on but now it's cranked up can't cope well, dare i say similar to Moyes when he went to United.

Regarding signing's i'm still convinced all will come good with a proper system in place and high quality coaching, we have some excellent players that are all looking confused in their roles, 1 or 2 you can blame the individual but all of them? That"s on the coach.

 

[Murray3007]

I'm not saying they are shit. You are right on there are talents and very promising but I don't see them as anything better than ours, should equal or may be slightly worse. This is where I don't understand why people overhyped them but not ours. Unless if you are talking about Mbappe, Neymar and Van Dijk signings then I can understand why people said they are scary and better than us in both current ability & talent but they weren't signing Mbappe, Neymar VVD level of players.

think what most people were thinking is they brought in players they were needing like a GK, CB, LB, RW, ST. Havertz signing to me was just to show people what they could do in the transfer market still. Just never really had all his players fit together or found any form or tactics.

 

[Tapori]

When I saw Chelsea's line up today my first thought was "wtf is Lampard thinking?". It was way too offensive and was going to play right into Leicester's hands. A midfield of Mount and Havertz? If he insists on playing both then one should be on the wing, not in the middle. But he's a media darling so I'm sure the pundits will continue to make excuses for him while putting down Ole at every chance they get...

Letting Loftus-Cheek go, as developing as he was, was a poor move.

 

[Tapori]

I have said it before since start of season, I never understand why lot of people are scared with Chelsea. They weren't signing Van Dijk, Mbappe or Neymar ffs. They were signings 36 years old Thiago Silva, Havertz, Werner. Some quality and talented but they are nothing special to be afraid of.

Havertz is playing too deep. His quality is when in the box scoring goals, he will be less effective if he's not playing further forward.

Chelsea's main problem is their midfield.

No bite or balance.

 

[RedSky]

5 losses, 1 draw and 2 wins in the last 8 league games for Chelsea.

Loss number 18 for Frank, which is 2 more than Ole despite having managed 20 league games more than Frank.

 

[Chief123]

Can't argue with that apart from the signing's bit (get to that in a minute), when you consider the expectations last season compared to this he's almost for all intents and purposes had a move from a middle ish club/team to a huge one, overachieved when the heat wasn't on but now it's cranked up can't cope well, dare i say similar to Moyes when he went to United.

Regarding signing's i'm still convinced all will come good with a proper system in place and high quality coaching, we have some excellent players that are all looking confused in their roles, 1 or 2 you can blame the individual but all of them? That"s on the coach.

I’ll be honest, I personally had us missing out on top 4 this season and Chelsea getting top 4 comfortably and possibly challenging for the title.

We were both in very symmetrical situations in the summer. Both ended the season on virtually the same points. Both had managers who were previous legends but inexperienced and only at the club for a year. So all eyes really were on who would perform the best in the transfer market. Chelsea literally bought a whole new team worth of players with 6/7 who would walk straight into the starting lineup. We (Utd) basically had a non-existent transfer window. We bought no one who walked straight into our team. We essentially ended up with virtually the same team as last season. Telles and VDB haven’t done anything of major impact yet. Cavani has had his moments but nothing regular or major.

Just due to the above, I feel the difference in situations between the two clubs right now is inexcusable and ultimately is going to cost Frank his job. But it also highlights what a freak season it’s been. We could literally draw or lose a couple of games and be down next to Chelsea with just a few points between us. A lot of this season is going to be heavily reliant on luck and injuries. I do think the whole situation at Chelsea would probably be different if they started the season with a fully fit squad and no injuries which is what we did benefit from on the whole. Having ziyech, Silva, Chilwell, Havertz, Pulisic all fully fit at the beginning of the season could have led to a very different situation. I dread to think where we would be if we started the season with Bruno missing for the first couple of months.

 

[Robbie Boy]

They need an absolute miracle to finish top 4 this season. They're simply not good enough.

I mean, we finished top four having looked totally out of the top four race last season. They have 57 points left to fight for and are 5 points off top four. Yeah they badly need to put a run together to gain some momentum, but with 57 possible points left, they can do it.

This season is crazy and there's a whole 6 points between 1st and 7th. Chelsea were mentioned as possible title contenders only a few months ago. I expect a-lot more twists and turns this season. Leicester are top tonight ffs after everyone being convinced 7/8 weeks ago that Liverpool would walk it. Liverpool are now 4th.

 

[GifLord]

I can’t embed media but here’s a link to Jamie Redknapp saying that Solskjaer is a very lucky manager that shouldn’t manage Man United, yet today in Sky Sports studio, he’s begging and crying that Lampard should get more time. If this don’t prove that there’s an agenda, I don’t know what else you need.

(Around 7:00)
(YouTube) /9uNu3qS9o60

Jamie: Sack Ole


Jamie: Give my relative time

 

[CM]

Watching Chelsea tonight was genuinely like watching Arsenal of the last few years.

When the second goal went in you just knew they were done. They looked soft, it was all tepid and there was no fight left in them. Leicester didn't have to weather out any period of pressure and were more or less strolling about the pitch themselves towards the end.

I find it very difficult to believe Lampard will survive this. The Fulham performance was flat anyway and with Avram Grant being brought back the other week Lampard's got the grim reaper watching over him.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

I keep hearing people talk about Rodgers being a possible replacement for Lampard and I have to ask, why on Earth would Rodgers leave Leicester to join Chelsea???

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Are Chelsea fans now playing the "our squad isn't good" to defend Lampard? After the ton of money spent in the market it's a disaster they are 8th in the table and lost 6 fecking games out of 19.

No different to plenty of United fans on here last season (spent a shit load, 8th after 19, lost 5, 1 point less than Frank).
If you think Ole deserved time, you have to say the same about Frank.
I’d personally sack him tomorrow, but I’d have sacked Ole in December 2019 and for the moment, that looks stupidly rash, so what the hell do I know?

What I will say is that after our poor start this season, the likes of @Leftback99 were genuinely arguing that we couldn’t expect much more because the likes of Spurs and Chelsea had much better squads. Make of that what you will. I think it’s natural that fans who really believe in a manager, will, for whatever reason, always play down their own squad and big up others.

 

[Dancfc]

I keep hearing people talk about Rodgers being a possible replacement for Lampard and I have to ask, why on Earth would Rodgers leave Leicester to join Chelsea???

For the same reason Kante did when they were champions and we weren't even in Europe. With all due respect to Leicester and their incredible growth in the last few years we're the better resourced and more likely to win a title in the future, even this season there's a small chance we could sneak back into the race if we can build some momentum under a new manager.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

And his Chelsea history of course, back to where it all started as youth coach.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

For the same reason Kante did when they were champions and we weren't even in Europe. With all due respect to Leicester and their incredible growth in the last few years we're the better resourced and more likely to win a title in the future, even this season there's a small chance we could sneak back into the race if we can build some momentum under a new manager.

I'm not questioning the ambition of the club. I'm questioning why Rodgers would leave his job at Leicester. Kante can't get fired inside 6 months. The management position at Chelsea is a poisoned chalice...

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I keep hearing people talk about Rodgers being a possible replacement for Lampard and I have to ask, why on Earth would Rodgers leave Leicester to join Chelsea???

I think he would. Maybe not this season but Chelsea in general have much more lofty ambitions and resources than Leicester so it's an easy decision for any manager.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

For the same reason Kante did when they were champions and we weren't even in Europe. With all due respect to Leicester and their incredible growth in the last few years we're the better resourced and more likely to win a title in the future, even this season there's a small chance we could sneak back into the race if we can build some momentum under a new manager.

Did Kante leave Leicester mid season? Only when the season ended. Rodgers has no reason to leave now in mid season, he signed long contract and building the Leicester into solid team. He knows the Leicester squad that he built is better as a team and better chemistry. Chelsea has more problem than just manager & coaching, although the main one is obviously manager and coaching. If it's in the summer Rodgers will take the job.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

I think he would. Maybe not this season but Chelsea in general have much more lofty ambitions and resources than Leicester so it's an easy decision for any manager.

If I'm Rodgers, and I'm sitting comfy at Leicester and have a good team, the last thing I would do is leave that comfy job to go join a club that I will be fired from inside of 2 years. I get that it's a more ambitious club, but if I were to leave a club like Leicester it would have to be for a club that I can see a future for myself at and not just be their next victim...

 

[Tallis]

Jamie: Sack Ole

Jamie: Give my relative time

l

The media excuses for Fat Frank have been something else and is one of the most glaring / obvious examples of their bias.

I am not suggesting that he be sacked because I generally advocate more time for managers but pointing it out for the benefit of Man Utd fans who believe too much of what they hear from the media.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

think what most people were thinking is they brought in players they were needing like a GK, CB, LB, RW, ST. Havertz signing to me was just to show people what they could do in the transfer market still. Just never really had all his players fit together or found any form or tactics.

Quality over quantity mate, overrated. If they were rated on par with us at the start of season then I would say fair but they were rated above us which I called it overrated squad. And also there were question marks whether Lampard actually signed the right player for his style football. I saw this coming.

I questioned the Werner signing on June 2020 as I knew there is doubt whether he will fit into Lampard's style (post below):

Werner is more effective playing in counter attack side. Lampard’s Chelsea isn’t a counter attack team, let’s see how he’ll get the best out of Werner.

Lampard also either didn't have clear plan when he signed his players or he had and still has no clue what type of players he was targeting players or he just signed.

Imagine spending their transfer record fees on Havertz who plays in the same position as Mount who had decent or good last season, what was he thinking? I can understand if his plan was to play Havertz as no 9 like a false 9 but clearly it wasn't the plan. Havertz at best playing further forward because his quality lies in the opposition box but Frank doesn't seem to understand it and he plays Havertz deeper. The guy didn't even play as CM once last season with Leverkusen.

On top of that Chelsea fans were overhyping 36 years old Thiago Silva. I wouldn't say bad investment for Chelsea but bad investment for Lampard for sure. This is why money doesn't guarantee you perform better, all the Chelsea fans thought Lampard would do better than last season since he was given much more money but in reality we have seen managers who have given more money than their previous season and gotten worse and got sacked like Pochettino in his final season for example.

 

[city-puma]

I can’t embed media but here’s a link to Jamie Redknapp saying that Solskjaer is a very lucky manager that shouldn’t manage Man United, yet today in Sky Sports studio, he’s begging and crying that Lampard should get more time. If this don’t prove that there’s an agenda, I don’t know what else you need.

(Around 7:00)
(YouTube) /9uNu3qS9o60

He probably has too much PT

Jamie: Sack Ole


Jamie: Give my relative time

He showed zero respect to Ole. Probably too much PTSD to carry from his playing time.

 

[Number32]

No different to plenty of United fans on here last season (spent a shit load, 8th after 19, lost 5, 1 point less than Frank).
If you think Ole deserved time, you have to say the same about Frank.
I’d personally sack him tomorrow, but I’d have sacked Ole in December 2019 and for the moment, that looks stupidly rash, so what the hell do I know?

What I will say is that after our poor start this season, the likes of @Leftback99 were genuinely arguing that we couldn’t expect much more because the likes of Spurs and Chelsea had much better squads. Make of that what you will. I think it’s natural that fans who really believe in a manager, will, for whatever reason, always play down their own squad and big up others.

United have had history giving managers time to develop, but Chelsea don't. They used to sack the manager immediately after a bad result even he was the only manager who gave them the first and only CL trophy. It's completely different.

 

[Dancfc]

United have had history giving managers time to develop, but Chelsea don't. They used to sack the manager immediately after a bad result even he was the only manager who gave them the first and only CL trophy. It's completely different.

I wish you gave Moyes "time to develop".

 

[Number32]

I wish you gave Moyes "time to develop".

Yes we did, he should had gone in January to save our season not signing Mata.