Well the Chinese don't consider Taiwan a neighbor ...
China-The next cold war?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Yes and they believe they own the vast majority of the South China Sea. I’m not ok with that either.
No it really is not silly, and we need to stop acting like it is. It’s only ‘silly’ if you think America is special and don’t have to follow the same rules as everyone else.
As for Taiwan (and Hong Kong for that matter) we talk about them as if they’re China being absolutely unreasonable, but look back at the history and the picture isn’t quite so one sided. Taiwan is a holdover from a civil war. If the American Civil War had ended with the Confederacy holed up on an American island just off the mainland, would we be talking about how unreasonable the US was being for wanting it back even 75 years later?
And how about Hong Kong? The British declared war on the Chinese to force them to continue allowing the trade in opium, and then forced them to hand over Hong Kong as part of the settlement. It was literally stolen from China at gunpoint.
It doesn’t matter what you think about the Chinese government and how they behave, either there’s an acceptable set of international principles or there isn’t. If there is, then everyone has to start obeying them. We can’t just sit and tell everyone else to play nice while we in the West continue to do whatever we please. That is nothing more of less than a carry over of colonial attitudes, and the east is growing too strong to tolerate it any more.
Nothing that China does had not been done by the US on the 20th century. Annexing Puerto Rico (they can't even vote their president), Guam, Samoa, playing with Philippines and Cuba, fecking over latinamerica during the 70/80 as it was their backyard. The unfair external debt that latinamerican countries had with the US is the same as China applies now with the countries along the silk route. Human rights in Guantanamo? other prisons in middle east and around the globe? different style same shit. Superpowers that will play at their convenience with other countries and will bury it the way they consider best with hollywood propaganda and lies like the weapons of massive disctruction or straight censorship with the Uighurs. They are exactly the same, but we pick US because or you live there or they are way closer to our culture and long term allies
And before were British, Spanish, Turks, mongols, romans greeks, etc...There is no "better" superpower just with who do you align
China’s worldview is not any more compatible with the US than the USSR‘s was.
I'm not ok with American hegemony but I suspect they will remain the worlds self appointed policeman for a while yet though china will probably have its own sphere of influence they stay out of ... there will be a boundary somewhere around about the carrier sinking missile range off the islands that have been built up
Can‘t justify what happened in the past as an excuse for the CCP to act the same way in the present. We cannot change history we can only deal with the present.
CCP will do anything to remain in power, their own citizens aren’t even safe from them, they are a brutal dictatorship. I believe they should be challenged and questioned for their actions. Then hopefully one day held accountable.
If you ever want progress you have to put yourself in their shoes for a minute. If you were Chinese and had just had a couple of centuries of being pushed around by the west, slaughtered by enemies and had countries grabbing bits of your country and talking to you like primitives, would you be open to being ‘challenged and questioned’ by those same countries?
Who can think as a country? Or more a corrupt leadership of a country, so no I can’t put myself into their shoes. I’m not Chinese, so I cant put myself in their position. But I can see how the CCP treat those within their boarders who are not allowed freedom of expression, or allowed to practice their religion. There’s some really heinous crimes going in China that the CCP are using to maintain order and control.
As for land, why aren’t they overly keen to take back what the USSR took? As they believe it’s theirs, so why is it only countries they believe they can bully and dominate. Seems a lot are fine with their conduct and are trying to justify it over things that happened decades or centuries ago. What they currently do, shouldn’t be justified by what happened decades ago and what they’re doing to certain sections of their population are just inexcusable.
Only insight I have is the Germans killed my great grandfather. The people and the leadership that did so are all gone now. I cannot hold the current generation of Germans accountable and nor should anyone. CCP have some very uncomfortable behaviours that the we saw many decades ago in Nazi Germany, that was allowed to happen.
You know the Chinese and Soviets actually had a shooting border conflict in the late 60’s right? And entered a war against the US that cost them 1 million lives back when they were militarily far inferior to the US in every aspect? The idea that China only mess with people they can bully is frankly bullshit.
Easy to say when you’re part of the countries who did the dominating, and not the ones that suffered from it.
None of this is justification or excusing anything, but until we start to actually practice what we preach it’s stupid to expect countries like China to just go along with our pretend morality.
The present is that US still doing exactly the same as always and on par with China. They still in Afganistan and Iraq. They provoked the ISIS crisis (Not the only guilty) and it will continue fecking the world over for their interested but in the name of freedom. China is doing the same and Russia the same as much as possible. Is not history, is present and you can't present US as the good guys, they are your guys (and mine too while I am living on western standards), but bad guys anyway
China is doing what they do to feed and educate their people. They have eradicated poverty almost completely.
What's the excuse for USA to do what they do? They are not feeding nor educating their people.
What's the excuse for USA to do what they do? They are not feeding nor educating their people.
It’s too grim and on the nose. You should watch being there instead. Somewhat apt, definitely less grim, and Peter Sellers.
Woah, hold on there pal. That’s how you play into a Republican trap.
The USSR wanted a communist world. China wants to dominate Asia and a seat at the table of world powers. I don't think a US/China clash is as inevitable as the US/USSR clash was.
I was thinking about this earlier when I read a story about the Russians testing an anti-satellite satellite. The article was talking about how angry the US and U.K. were and protesting to the Russians. Then further down the article they dropped in the small fact that 4 countries are known to be working on anti-satellite weapons including of course the US. Just pure hypocrisy.
The same is with who is allowed to have nuclear weapons and who is not....and who is the only one that used it....twice
Of course if I have to chose a superpower I will chose US as I am european and I live in Canada and culturally and from a alliance perspective I rather prefer that if someone fecks me, he knows how I like it. But criticizing China or Russia or anyone else is as you said pure hypocrisy. Same dog, different leash
So you go back 51 years to their last conflict and no mention of what’s going on now?
China is not the CCP. I take issue with their enforced leadership. You can’t state what people want in a country when any political dissent gets eradicated. The CCP are conducting land and sea grabs right now, they’re bullying and dominating their neighbours. You’re fine with that, then enjoy the feeling.
Without getting into the right and wrong and good and bad, I don‘t see much of a cold war happening. The US are bickering about who to elect and how to get re-elected and bouncing back and forth between where to go and how to get there. In the meantime, China is taking massive steps striding forward executing their plans for the future.
China’s playing the long game.
Yes, they’ll test their neighbours resolve and that of the US every now and then but their involvement in Africa and influence in other countries shows a glimpse of the their long view.
That the US is aware is obvious but I’m not sure they have the political stability to form a long term plan to oppose China so we’re faced with short sharp reactions (Huawei, etc).
Yes, they’ll test their neighbours resolve and that of the US every now and then but their involvement in Africa and influence in other countries shows a glimpse of the their long view.
That the US is aware is obvious but I’m not sure they have the political stability to form a long term plan to oppose China so we’re faced with short sharp reactions (Huawei, etc).
As a Hongkonger I have to disagree with this. Do you know why China has such a large territory nowadays? It used to be consisted of several countries and it only becomes this big because one is starting a war on one another and fighting for land. Back in those days invasion is pretty common, when you win you get territory and compensation, plain and simple. The only wrongdoing from the UK is that it returns Hong Kong to China, which is against the decision from United Nations suggesting colonies should decide their own future by their own people.
As for the Taiwan problem you have no idea how disgraceful the CCP is. The Nationalist Party (KMT) was winning the civil war all day long. Then China was invaded by the west and both parties agreed to cease fire. But the CCP breached the agreement and the KMT had to fight against the west and CCP at the same time. After the WWII KMT was significantly weakened and the CCP grabbed an easy win, while the KMT escaped and established a regime in Taiwan. Now Taiwan has developed better than China and China wants it back.
I haven't gone through every post here but it seems to me many have overrated China's ability. When they bully small countries, they claim they have the 2nd greatest GDP in the world; when they are asked to fulfill their responsibilities, they say they are a poor developing country and their GDP per capita is poor. Yes there are plenty of factories in China but they only possess low-end technology, which is easy to relocate. The problem is that they are lagging behind in high-end technology. The fact that many relatives of CCP officials reside or study in the US pretty much says it all.
To which technologies are you referring?
He said low end and hi end.
The fact that they’re accused of stealing technology tells you they maybe not developing their own, yet.
Where’s their vaccine for the C-19?
Why are we only hearing about Oxford Univ and not Shanghai? They had a head start.
Yes, fact is China has been struggling to produce a pen until recent years. In this pandemic, they have a head start but they fail to contribute. Their testing kits are unsatisfactory, let alone vaccines. Hong Kong is now buying kits from the US at the cost of HKD$600 per test rather than the cheap Chinese ones. I dare say most of the Chinese talents are now conducting researches in the US universities.He said low end and hi end.
The fact that they’re accused of stealing technology tells you they maybe not developing their own, yet.
Where’s their vaccine for the C-19?
Why are we only hearing about Oxford Univ and not Shanghai? They had a head start.
China needs to be put in its place. It is an irresponsible nation with an opaque political system that does not allow voices of freedom or dissent.
The virus and its cover up is just the icing on the cake.
The virus and its cover up is just the icing on the cake.
First of all, I need to explain that I know a lot of information about Xinjiang re education camp and have watched the reports of BBC and New York Times. I haven't received brainwashing, which is often a misunderstanding of the Chinese people in other countries.
First of all, the same event, when you use a different perspective to explain it, will have a completely different impact.
The following news reports about many violent attacks in Xinjiang.All of these incidents happened before the construction of the education camp.[1]
May 22, 2014: an explosion occurred in the morning market of Gongyuan North Street, saybak District, Urumqi, which is a serious violent terrorist case of extremely bad nature. It is preliminarily understood that at about 7:50 on May 22, the mob drove two vehicles to break through the protective fence, smashed and crushed the crowd, detonated the explosive device, killing 31 people and injuring 94.
2014-5-1: an explosion occurred in the South Station of Urumqi railway, which was a serious violent terrorist attack. The mob held a knife to kill the people at the pick-up place at the exit of the South Station of Urumqi railway, and detonated the explosive device at the same time, causing 3 deaths and 79 injuries, including 4 serious injuries.
March 1, 2014: 29 people were killed and 130 relatives were injured in a serious terrorist incident at Kunming railway station. More than 10 uniformed thugs, wearing masks and knives, killed innocent people in Kunming Railway Station Square, ticket office and other places.
2014-02-14: two people and seven policemen were injured in a police attack in Wushi County, Xinjiang. Eight people were killed and one was arrested by the police. Three suspects were killed in a suicide bombing at the time of the crime.
January 24, 2014: an explosion occurred in a beauty salon and a vegetable market in Xinhe County, Aksu District, Xinjiang, killing one person and injuring two others. The public security officials quickly sent out police to deal with the situation and arrested three suspects. During the containment of a suspicious vehicle, the vehicle exploded and two people were killed.
On January 26, the public security officials were attacked by rioters throwing explosive devices in the process of handling the violent terrorist cases in Xinhe County on January 24. Police killed 6 rioters and captured 5. 6 rioters died of self explosion when they committed crimes. One police officer was slightly injured and no casualties were found. A batch of explosive devices and crime tools were seized.
2013
On December 30, the Public Security Bureau of Shache County in Kashgar region of Xinjiang was attacked by violence and terrorism. Nine violent terrorists attacked with machetes, threw explosive devices and set fire to police cars. Police decisively dealt with it, killing 8 people and catching 1.
On December 25, the "12.15" terrorist attacks in Shufu County, Xinjiang
At about 23:00 on December 15, when the police of Shufu County Public Security Bureau in Kashi District of Xinjiang arrested the criminal suspect in saybage Township, several mobs threw explosive devices and attacked with machetes, resulting in the death of two police officers. Police have decisively dealt with it, killing 14 rioters. They have arrested 6 suspects and seized a batch of explosive devices, self-made guns, knives, etc.
According to the preliminary determination of the police, the "12.15" case of Shufu County in Kashgar, Xinjiang is an organized and premeditated violent terrorist attack. Since August this year, a terrorist gang with 20 members has gradually formed, led by Aishan Simayi. The group has gathered for many times to watch violent and terrorist videos, publicize religious extremist ideas, manufacture explosive devices and guns, conduct trial explosions several times, and premeditate violent and terrorist activities.
On November 16, police station in Selibuya Town, Bachu county was attacked
At about 17:30 on November 16, 2013, nine thugs, including abraahiti, attacked the police station in Selibuya Town, Bachu county with swords and axes, resulting in the death of two policemen.
Besides these, there are hundreds more. It can be said that these violent terrorist attacks led to the destruction of local people's lives in Xinjiang.
I have to mention two major terrorist attacks. These two things have changed the whole Chinese view of Xinjiang.
1.July 5, 2009 serious violence in Urumqi
Urumqi is the capital of Xinjiang. It was a peaceful day. But many Uighurs began to march on the streets, and then began to kill people and make fire. Even the old people who took the bus to the park for a walk were not spared.
This is a photo recorded by passers-by with mobile phone. The mob did no difference to innocent civilians
The violence killed 197 people, 1721 people were injured. most of them Han. A large number of Han shops were robbed and cars burned down. I once watched a video that the western media never published: those violent people cut at the sight of people, blood flowed on the ground, and then the army came, and they still rushed forward, until the army fired in order to prevent the self-defense warning, they were shot to the ground.
I've experienced Tibetan riots, and I know the horror of religious fanatics losing their think.
I used to have a little bit of hope for them until it happened.
2.March 1, 2014: terrorist attack on Kunming Railway Station
The capital city, which is 4100 kilometers away by train, is a complex railway station where every civilian has been destroyed. The mob carries a pig killing knife. When he sees someone, he will cut it. (this is exactly the same way as the genocide in Rwanda)The terrorist attack killed 31 people and injured 141.
Kunming citizens are praying. The slogan means: don't cry in Kunming
Every Chinese is afraid. Because terrorism has gone out of Xinjiang. Even if they are far away, they will still happen. And all people are afraid of their actions, because they kill people indiscriminately and without reason at all. As a result, almost all citizens choose to support the government to take a stronger approach.
At the same time, through this incident, I have known the double standards of Western media.
On the left is the Kunming terrorist attack and on the right is the London terrorist attack on May 22, 2013.
Xinjiang people are flooded with terrorism. They have received training from Al Qaeda. Most terrorists are only finish the junior high school. They are easy to be incited and kill indiscriminately.
Western media ignored the problem. But it still exists, and if it is not solved, more people will die in the future. So China has set up a transformation camp.
The idea was put forward by the team of Chen Quanguo, a former governor of Tibet. There were frequent violent attacks in Tibet, but he managed it successfully.
The education camp has new and good facilities. They can play basketball and watch movies. In the BBC Documentary, we can see their national dance performances. The government provides them with job training and ideological education to prevent them from being affected by extremism again.
Even after visiting the education camp, many Islamic ambassadors expressed their support for China.
Only the West has been opposed.
I don't deny the problems in the re education camp. If you want to ask me if I have been mistreated, I think there will be, after all, the contradictions among ethnic groups have been intensified. But this is not officially allowed, and abusive managers will be severely punished. The Chinese government does not want to deepen the hatred among nations again. At the same time, these education camps cost a lot of taxpayer money and created a high-pressure atmosphere in Xinjiang. But it's all bitter. We need to swallow it. I don't know if these camps will work in the long run. I think Chinese government officials still need to improve their policies and attitudes and improve their relations with Uighurs. But like most Chinese, I still support the re education camp. When the whole region is in violence, only this measure of the government can protect my safety. I don't want to be cut to death when I go out to eat one day, which happened every day in Xinjiang.In addition, at least until August 2019, Xinjiang has not had a terrorist attack in 23 months.
I believe that security as a law-abiding citizen is more important than the human rights of terrorists.
Erm approved for military use and
https://www.google.com/amp/s/medicalxpress.com/news/2020-06-chinese-coronavirus-vaccine-military.amp
Perhaps your not hearing about the Chinese vaccines because you have a very usa / uk bias in your news sources
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.trtworld.com/life/china-leads-covid-19-vaccine-race-37959/amp
Fair enough. I had heard about the Chinese military guinea pigs but not much else. Fair play if they can produce a vaccine quicker, which again they should.
It’s true my media is western biased but that’s probably more typical as I‘m european and I don’t read Chinese.
China isn't doing anything that Western nations haven't been doing for the past 50-100 years.
Won't happen. US and EU fed the monster by relocating factories into China so they can access cheap slave labour, and now the monster has grown and you cannot shoot him down. Simply put: world economy would have another even bigger collapse if companies had to create their factories from scratch outside China.
Ironic how liberal capitalism ended up being the responsible for financing the rise of the communism to world economic domination.
Ironic how liberal capitalism ended up being the responsible for financing the rise of the communism to world economic domination.
China has pretty much always been an economic world power other than... a... temporary set back... a momentary lapse
It'll have to happen slowly but surely.
China 's largest trading partner is still the US (by far) and way the tensions are growing, I can also see a rapid decoupling. EU as a trading bloc is also a big partner for China but its importance is nowhere close to US.
Not to mention xenophobia, which is at an all time high in the world and particularly the US, with terms such as Kung flu and China virus being thrown around very casually.
That's why countries like Japan and the US are funding companies to relocate their factories back in their countries. The cost of setting up and maintaining a factory in China has also been increasing in recent years, some companies are considering to relocate to other Southeast Asia countries.
This is actually a funny one.
If the US consumers don't mind rising prices for relocating the factories and for the big corps to actually create employment in countries where workers have rights, then it could start right now.
What companies have the US government funded to set up back in the US?
The move into other SE nations was inevitable incidentally as production costs rise in China due to the cost of living improvements there. I look forward to the day when the west runs out of low cost labour markets to exploit.
Ah so they're the master of them slave labors....
dont hold your breath... africa is pretty big and has a lot of people (though after the last colonisation perhaps its chinas turn to have a go in africa this time)
Japan is leading the campaign and Kudlow is urging the US to follow. If cheap slave labor is the only thing that China's got, it's inevitable their advantage is diminishing.
https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/Japan-reveals-87-projects-eligible-for-China-exit-subsidies
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrap...merican-companies-leaving-china/#34e3531e13c6
It’s not the only thing they’ve got though is it, they have massive natural resources, a gigantic population and through theft and now investment are starting to finally rival the west technologically and educationally. Their end game was never to stay as the west’s cheap labour, just to catch up and become a comparable market.