[villain]

It was a comparison between the other GKs from the top teams. Obviously he wouldn't be number 1 in each aspect if compared to every other goalkeeper in the league, because there are teams that get absolutely demolished in defense.

Interesting because Toby, Koschielney, VVD, Stones, Laporte etc are all defenders which people regularly say are better than ours - yet their defence isn’t as good as ours, and with the exception of VVD it’s not like they have terrible keepers in goal either.

It’s fair to say that DDG is amazing, but our defence also deserves credit.
That’s all.

 

[Loublaze]

Why couldn't you just say you checked the stats rather than making out as if you just plucked those names out of the air??

Yeah, so they are #1 and #2 now but De Gea is still at joint #2 with Butland. That's still disgraceful, whichever way you look at it.

So much for the fantastic defence!

I didn't pluck them out of the air, I actually saw this on a segment recently on NBC's US version of match of the day where Robbie Earle and Robbie Mustoe where discussing top performing goalkeepers this season, those two where mentioned as having made the most saves. De gea has made too many saves though, so I agree with you on that, it still doesn't give you license to make stats up just to try and make a point.

 

[MikeKing]

Great performance and that's the response you want to see in a United-player really. Turning his run of form around after a couple of questionable performances. Extremely important in our chase for trophies this season. Hopefully carries this on against Sevilla.

Great to have Bailly back too. Jones, Rojo and Lindelof haven't taken their chances while he's been out. Hopefully him and Smalling can strike a late and great partnership now.

 

[Rossa]

I don't really care if he played with a broken toe or rib, if he wasn't in condition he should have been ruled out. Instead we were a goal down in a minute, and a game plan went out the window

It sounded to me like he was more or less forced to play. We don't know any more than that. Playing with a broken toe is stupid, but it explains why he was poor. Evra definitely played with a foot injury for a long period in Fergie's last season - it certainly impaired his game, but perhaps it was necessary...

He doesn't make any more mistakes than others. The thing is I don't want a regular CB quality at this club, I want the best. A CB that will bring assurance to the backline. A CB that will intimidate strikers with aura same as theirs. Vidic had that, Smalling will never have it. I would give 10 like Smalling for one Rio or Vidic.

This I don't disagree with. However, looking at what is out there, available, who do you think we could get that would improve us? We need to look at the defense as one unit. Without Smalling, we are awfully vulnerable in the air. For some reason, Matic is also terrible at defending corners, and there's been enough said about Lukaku. I don't want us to revert to playing Fellaini because our centre back options are too poor in the air.

I wasn't referring to that. Smalling made a clumsy challenge vs Newcastle on the age of the box that luckily for us wasn't given as penalty. The attacker was going nowhere just passing on the edge of the box and it was very stupid play.

I wasn't even blaming Smalling individually for any goal, just the lack of brain and quality among the three (Smalling, Jones and Rojo). I said we need an upgrade, and to say it again I've always rated Jones and Smalling.

Not long ago I was arguing that Smalling is better defensively that VVD, that should be a testament of how I rate him higher than most, but still I want better for this club.

All defenders make clumsy mistakes - even the best ones. The prime example of that being Ramos. Vidic and Rio also made stupid, silly, clumsy mistakes. On the other hand, Smalling can make a couple of clumsy mistakes that he should know better than to make - that I agree with.

Smalling is better defensively than VVD. I can only think that VVD is a better passer. He makes more mistakes and has no other attributes than passing and technique that he excels at over Smalling. That being said, he may be a better fit for us due to those strengths.

What I don't quite get is why our defense sits so low. We have bags of pace at the back - Rojo is probably our slowest defender (not counting Blind), and even he is pretty quick. Even so, Mourinho seems much too concerned with teams hitting us on the counter or exploiting the space in between. It leaves for a huge gap between our defense and our midfield.

 

[Ballache]

Excellent game. When he plays with aggression he is an outstanding defender.

My take is that he is such a softly spoken meek character that it doesn't come naturally to him. That is why his form fluctuates so significantly with confidence.

I agree, I don't think he realizes how much of athe physical beast he is.

 

[Revan]

Interesting because Toby, Koschielney, VVD, Stones, Laporte etc are all defenders which people regularly say are better than ours - yet their defence isn’t as good as ours, and with the exception of VVD it’s not like they have terrible keepers in goal either.

It’s fair to say that DDG is amazing, but our defence also deserves credit.
That’s all.

City have conceded one more goal than us, while Spurs have conceded just 5 more goals. We play more defensive than both of those teams, and have a better keeper?

How exactly our defense is better than theirs?

 

[Revan]

Great performance and that's the response you want to see in a United-player really. Turning his run of form around after a couple of questionable performances. Extremely important in our chase for trophies this season. Hopefully carries this on against Sevilla.

Great to have Bailly back too. Jones, Rojo and Lindelof haven't taken their chances while he's been out. Hopefully him and Smalling can strike a late and great partnership now.

Jones - bar the Spurs game - has been easily our best CB this season.

 

[villain]

City have conceded one more goal than us, while Spurs have conceded just 5 more goals. We play more defensive than both of those teams, and have a better keeper?

How exactly our defense is better than theirs?

Because they dont have as good a defence record as we do? Simple as that.

Our defence has been among the best in the league for many years, despite us changing managers 4 times in nearly 6 years - that's not a fluke, or coincidence. Yes DDG is great, but so many people on here have the grass-is-greener syndrome as if the likes of Alderweireld, Koscielny, Varane, Bonucci, Laporte etc are incapable of making mistakes.

All I said was our defence deserves credit, which it does.

Despite some people's desperate attempts to make out as if opposing teams carve through us like butter and DDG is having to make 10 crucial saves every match.

 

[villain]

Jones - bar the Spurs game - has been easily our best CB this season.

So i'm guessing you forgot the Stoke game where he was at fault for at least 1 possibly 2 of their goals?
Or the Leicester game where he & Young went maurauding up the pitch aimlessly, leaving Smalling exposed in a 2-on-1 situation?

I don't think it's clear cut that hes been 'easily' our best, Smalling has been great this season and been much more reliable too in terms of injuries.

Also I find these tribalistic "contests" we seem to have when it comes to our players - especially our defenders, "My favourite has been better than your favourite" so childish.

It doesn't matter who you think has been the best, lets just support our players.

 

[Kostov]

It sounded to me like he was more or less forced to play. We don't know any more than that. Playing with a broken toe is stupid, but it explains why he was poor. Evra definitely played with a foot injury for a long period in Fergie's last season - it certainly impaired his game, but perhaps it was necessary...

If he wasn't able to play, he shouldn't have. I can't imagine anyone forcing him to, we ended up going a goal down in a minute, to one of the most difficult grounds for us. It was a shit show and poor decision to play in it.

This I don't disagree with. However, looking at what is out there, available, who do you think we could get that would improve us? We need to look at the defense as one unit. Without Smalling, we are awfully vulnerable in the air. For some reason, Matic is also terrible at defending corners, and there's been enough said about Lukaku. I don't want us to revert to playing Fellaini because our centre back options are too poor in the air.

Yes I agree Smalling is our most reliable defender in the air, but fecking hell, with the physics he has he should be so much better in the air. I mean he wins headers while defending but is nowhere near a threat on set pieces, I know it's not that important for a CB but his lack of football technique is evident.

If we can't find one that is an upgrade at the minute, than we should go for a young CB with world class potential. We shouldn't accept mediocrity for any position, never mind CB. I realize Smalling is a good player and an able defender, but we should aim higher.

All defenders make clumsy mistakes - even the best ones. The prime example of that being Ramos. Vidic and Rio also made stupid, silly, clumsy mistakes. On the other hand, Smalling can make a couple of clumsy mistakes that he should know better than to make - that I agree with.

Smalling is better defensively than VVD. I can only think that VVD is a better passer. He makes more mistakes and has no other attributes than passing and technique that he excels at over Smalling. That being said, he may be a better fit for us due to those strengths.

What I don't quite get is why our defense sits so low. We have bags of pace at the back - Rojo is probably our slowest defender (not counting Blind), and even he is pretty quick. Even so, Mourinho seems much too concerned with teams hitting us on the counter or exploiting the space in between. It leaves for a huge gap between our defense and our midfield.

Please don't put that overrated shit Ramos in the same bracket as Rio and Vida, he is not fit to lace their boots.

I don't agree on Rojo, didn't he have some record at the WC for the fastest LB while playing for Argentina? He certainly isn't slow. We can improve defending and pressing as a team that I agree on definitely. One thing that bemuses me, is our defending of set pieces. Mourinho teams have always been very solid and organized, yet half of the goals we concede seem to come from set pieces.

 

[Rossa]

If he wasn't able to play, he shouldn't have. I can't imagine anyone forcing him to, we ended up going a goal down in a minute, to one of the most difficult grounds for us. It was a shit show and poor decision to play in it.

I think plenty of players have played through injuries in the past. Having a centre back playing with a broken toe is just stupid, though. But considering Mourinho's statements prior to the match, and the fact that Smalling was out injured shortly after, I can only assument that he was more or less forced into playing.

Yes I agree Smalling is our most reliable defender in the air, but fecking hell, with the physics he has he should be so much better in the air. I mean he wins headers while defending but is nowhere near a threat on set pieces, I know it's not that important for a CB but his lack of football technique is evident.

Rio hardly ever scored with his head, even though he was also pretty good at defending in the air. Vidic scored some goals, but not that many. Smalling actually scores more goals than any of our defenders for some time.

If we can't find one that is an upgrade at the minute, than we should go for a young CB with world class potential. We shouldn't accept mediocrity for any position, never mind CB. I realize Smalling is a good player and an able defender, but we should aim higher.

We have Bailly, and we have Tuanzebe and TFM who both seem to be great prospects. I think we have the young and upcoming defenders covered. If you want to improve on Smalling, it needs to be a top drawer defender. I can think of Verthongen and Alderweireld, and some of those Italians who seem to love defending so much (though, Darmian...)

Please don't put that overrated shit Ramos in the same bracket as Rio and Vida, he is not fit to lace their boots.

He's still widely regarded as one of the best current CBs, and he makes plenty of mistakes. Looking at aforementioned Verthongen, he made two huge mistakes against United that we capitalised on.

I don't agree on Rojo, didn't he have some record at the WC for the fastest LB while playing for Argentina? He certainly isn't slow. We can improve defending and pressing as a team that I agree on definitely. One thing that bemuses me, is our defending of set pieces. Mourinho teams have always been very solid and organized, yet half of the goals we concede seem to come from set pieces.

Last year, Rojo was owned by Lukaku in a sprint, and Lukaku carried the ball. Previously, Smalling has outpaced Lukaku several times. I also think Rojo looks slightly slower after his recent injuries. He is far from slow - but our other centre backs are pretty rapid. Jones is also pretty fast once he gets going, but not at Smalling's level. Bailly is probably faster than Smalling even, at least on the first few yards. Therefore, I stand my ground on that one - Tuanzebe and TFM (in particular) are also rapid.

I agree completely with your sentiment on our defending of set-pieces. We are a shambles. There are many factors though. Here I think Smalling is our only positive.
1. Our world class goalie is terrible at commanding his box.
2. Matic only heads the ball skywards and then straight back down again - he also clears the ball with his feet that way
3. Jones more or less loses headers to the likes of Lennon
4. Bailly thinks it better to head with his bak than his forehead.
Valencia is also pretty decent at clearing the box, it has to be said.

 

[Doracle]

So i'm guessing you forgot the Stoke game where he was at fault for at least 1 possibly 2 of their goals?
Or the Leicester game where he & Young went maurauding up the pitch aimlessly, leaving Smalling exposed in a 2-on-1 situation?

I don't think it's clear cut that hes been 'easily' our best, Smalling has been great this season and been much more reliable too in terms of injuries.

Also I find these tribalistic "contests" we seem to have when it comes to our players - especially our defenders, "My favourite has been better than your favourite" so childish.

It doesn't matter who you think has been the best, lets just support our players.

It seems a bit odd to pick a positive comment about one of our players for this criticism, given the general tone of this thread. Given it was a reply to a post suggesting Bailly and Smalling should be our starting CB because Jones has failed to take his chances, it seemed a fairly valid point to me and isn’t actually criticising Smalling! I personally would agree that Jones has done enough to be our first choice currently. It’s between Smalling and Bailly as to who should partner him.

It is amazing though how Jones can have one bad game and Smalling a slightly error prone one and all the focus is on replacing them, completely ignoring the fact that our much vaunted midfield provided little defensive support and was primarily at fault for the Newcastle goal and also that our midfield/attack got dominated by Spurs and then contrived to mess up a lot of promising positions against Newcastle.

 

[villain]

It seems a bit odd to pick a positive comment about one of our players for this criticism, given the general tone of this thread. Given it was a reply to a post suggesting Bailly and Smalling should be our starting CB because Jones has failed to take his chances, it seemed a fairly valid point to me and isn’t actually criticising Smalling! I personally would agree that Jones has done enough to be our first choice currently. It’s between Smalling and Bailly as to who should partner him.

It is amazing though how Jones can have one bad game and Smalling a slightly error prone one and all the focus is on replacing them, completely ignoring the fact that our much vaunted midfield provided little defensive support and was primarily at fault for the Newcastle goal and also that our midfield/attack got dominated by Spurs and then contrived to mess up a lot of promising positions against Newcastle.

Not really it's more to demonstrate that all of our defenders are capable, and have been responsible for individual errors that have led to goals this season, also it just leads on from the prior comment about rating other teams' defenders higher than our own. All defenders will make mistakes, they are human no team goes through a season without conceding goals here and there - the problem is that we often score so few goals that conceding 1 goal becomes a mission for us to overcome, especially if we concede first.

I'm in the camp that our defenders are fine - and sure we could improve to get ones which are easier on the eye and can play silky cross-field passes and the rest of it.
But our midfield isn't good enough, and imo DDG isn't a sweeper keeper, he doesn't come off his line, he isn't commanding of his area he doesn't possess those skills. Plus our fullbacks are only useful in every other game. There's so many other aspects to our play that doesn't suit playing out from the back - yet we just latch onto 'ball playing cbs' because they are the easiest to scapegoat.

A pair of fully competent fullbacks, a settled midfield, and DDG playing further off his line - we will see much more fluid attacks, keep hold of the ball more, and dominate games.

 

[Doracle]

Not really it's more to demonstrate that all of our defenders are capable, and have been responsible for individual errors that have led to goals this season, also it just leads on from the prior comment about rating other teams' defenders higher than our own. All defenders will make mistakes, they are human no team goes through a season without conceding goals here and there - the problem is that we often score so few goals that conceding 1 goal becomes a mission for us to overcome, especially if we concede first.

I'm in the camp that our defenders are fine - and sure we could improve to get ones which are easier on the eye and can play silky cross-field passes and the rest of it.
But our midfield isn't good enough, and imo DDG isn't a sweeper keeper, he doesn't come off his line, he isn't commanding of his area he doesn't possess those skills. Plus our fullbacks are only useful in every other game. There's so many other aspects to our play that doesn't suit playing out from the back - yet we just latch onto 'ball playing cbs' because they are the easiest to scapegoat.

A pair of fully competent fullbacks, a settled midfield, and DDG playing further off his line - we will see much more fluid attacks, keep hold of the ball more, and dominate games.

More or less agree with this. I’m not convinced yet by Rojo or Lindelof but I think any two of the other three are fine for a top club - I wouldn’t turn down an Alderweireld or Varane but I’m not convinced blowing a significant chunk of our summer budget on a central defender is the way forwards. A Kroos type player seems the absolute priority to me.

 

[MikeKing]

Jones - bar the Spurs game - has been easily our best CB this season.

I disagree with that. He hasn't even been playing as good as he did in that form-period last year, imo. Everybody says he always has been this great defender and its just the injuries standing in the way of him being a leader and hero, but i disagree with that and he lacks in many areas defensively, as well as technically. He hasn't played enough to convince me really, and I've never actually seen him having a MOTM performance at this level.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

He's been doing good.

 

[Rossa]

One of the few reasons we are not losing. Good game so far.

 

[All 3 United]

What? He completely left his man(number 20) for that free header? Totally clueless some of you lot.

 

[buckooo1978]

good performance until he lost Muriel at end there - a top defender doesn't do that

 

[arnie_ni]

What? He completely left his man(number 20) for that free header? Totally clueless some of you lot.

He went to cover the nearest threat.... the man unmarked in the center. Valencia who was standing watching should have slide over and marked miguel.

You always defend near post back. Smalling done his part pushing onto the unmarked man in the center. Valencia didnt

 

[Ultimate Grib]

Did well for all of the half then had the characteristic Smaling brainfart™ moment and we were lucky De Gea saved it.

 

[All 3 United]

He went to cover the nearest threat.... the man unmarked in the center. Valencia who was standing watching should have slide over and marked miguel.

You always defend near post back. Smalling done his part pushing onto the unmarked man in the center. Valencia didnt

Seriously. You do not let your man run into the 6 yard box unmarked. Valencia stood there in amazement at what he just witnessed from his CB and had no chance of covering.

 

[Dorris]

Seriously. You do not let your man run into the 6 yard box unmarked. Valencia stood there in amazement at what he just witnessed from his CB and had no chance of covering.

Calling people clueless then coming out with that. Oh boy

 

[arnie_ni]

Seriously. You do not let your man run into the 6 yard box unmarked. Valencia stood there in amazement at what he just witnessed from his CB and had no chance of covering.

Valencia has to be more aware and closer to his cb to begin with so when smalling slides over to cover the unmarked player in the middle Valencia just slides over and takes that guy.

Valencia, like against Chelsea marked the man at the very very back post. Thats the man that should be left free.

You defend inside out not outside in

 

[Kag]

Seriously. You do not let your man run into the 6 yard box unmarked. Valencia stood there in amazement at what he just witnessed from his CB and had no chance of covering.

You couldn't be more wrong. Smalling did his job and covered the incoming man.

This is really basic defensive stuff.

 

[arnie_ni]

You couldn't be more wrong. Smalling did his job and covered the incoming man.

This is really basic defensive stuff.

Thank you. Valencia was caught napping.

If the man in the middle scored we would be blaming smalling for not stepping in and taking him. Yet here we are blaming him for doing exactly that

 

[Kag]

Thank you. Valencia was caught napping.

If the man in the middle scored we would be blaming smalling for not stepping in and taking him. Yet here we are blaming him for doing exactly that

Some of this lot should take up tiddlywinks.

 

[All 3 United]

Valencia has to be more aware and closer to his cb to begin with so when smalling slides over to cover the unmarked player in the middle Valencia just slides over and takes that guy.

Valencia, like against Chelsea marked the man at the very very back post. Thats the man that should be left free.

You defend inside out not outside in

Matic was goalside of the other attacker. Smalling ended up doing absolutely nothing went forward then back and by that point his man had completely left him. Terrible defending.

 

[Amar__]

It's pretty much the same situation like for the Messi goal against us in CL final. Defender back then was prime Rio Ferdinand so make of that what you want.

 

[All 3 United]

You couldn't be more wrong. Smalling did his job and covered the incoming man.

This is really basic defensive stuff.

I’m not saying Valencia shouldn’t have been further over but the fact is he wasn’t, so no way should Smalling go to a man that was already being marked by Matic.

 

[arnie_ni]

It's pretty much the same situation like for the Messi goal against us in CL final. Defender back then was prime Rio Ferdinand so make of that what you want.

Any clips, blocked it out

 

[arnie_ni]

Matic was goalside of the other attacker. Smalling ended up doing absolutely nothing went forward then back and by that point his man had completely left him. Terrible defending.

Matic was pushing the man with the ball. Lindeloff wasn't involved at all. Matic was playing 2nd cb

 

[All 3 United]

Matic was pushing the man with the ball. Lindeloff wasn't involved at all. Matic was playing 2nd cb

Also Valencia’s man was on the far post (number 11). Awful mistake by smalling.

 

[arnie_ni]

Also Valencia’s man was on the far post (number 11). Awful mistake by smalling.

Defend inside out. Leave him free. If he scores it a case of the extra man scoring. Nothing you can do there.

 

[All 3 United]

Matic was pushing the man with the ball. Lindeloff wasn't involved at all. Matic was playing 2nd cb

Matic, was not pushing the man with the ball he picked up the other forward that for some unknown reason Smalling ran toward.

 

[All 3 United]

Calling people clueless then coming out with that. Oh boy

Yep. Clueless.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

What? He completely left his man(number 20) for that free header? Totally clueless some of you lot.

You mean Valencia right?

 

[All 3 United]

You mean Valencia right?

Smalling even checked where HIS man was seconds before running off to cover the man Matic was already goalside of. Valencia was covering for the back post ball (their number 11).

 

[arnie_ni]

Smalling even checked where HIS man was seconds before running off to cover the man Matic was already goalside of. Valencia was covering for the back post ball (their number 11).

I can't post anymore. You defend inside out. Smalling and Valencia should both move across. Smalling did. Valencia didnt.

 

[All 3 United]

I can't post anymore. You defend inside out. Smalling and Valencia should both move across. Smalling did. Valencia didnt.

I’m fully aware of how you defend and in that situation, Smalling should stay with his man. There was no danger in the area he was for some bizarre reason running into. Matic had it covered.