[Ekeke]

It’s not false though is it? He’s terrible with the ball at his feet and under the press, which is how we like to play now and how most teams set up against us. He’s useless playing out from the back. He’s better than Bailly, who probably only stayed because he got injured again. And he’s better than Rojo, who probably only stayed because he’s more adept in a back three and can play left back. Jones is just better, albeit more injury prone. Pretty much every manager we’ve had has preferred Jones to Smalling until injuries kicked in.

I really don’t get this clamour for Smalling. This is the best back four we’ve had since Fergie. Four defenders who Can both defend and play. Defence has looked good to me. The midfield and attack has been the problem.

Whatever our problems, Smalling is not the answer. He doesn’t fit our style of play and hopefully will have a good season and be sold for a good price.

If he's terrible with the ball at his feet when pressed I'm sure you can list 5 times that Smalling was pressed into a mistake during his long tenure at the club

 

[Bebestation]

It’s not false though is it? He’s terrible with the ball at his feet and under the press, which is how we like to play now and how most teams set up against us. He’s useless playing out from the back. He’s better than Bailly, who probably only stayed because he got injured again. And he’s better than Rojo, who probably only stayed because he’s more adept in a back three and can play left back. Jones is just better, albeit more injury prone. Pretty much every manager we’ve had has preferred Jones to Smalling until injuries kicked in.

I really don’t get this clamour for Smalling. This is the best back four we’ve had since Fergie. Four defenders who Can both defend and play. Defence has looked good to me. The midfield and attack has been the problem.

Whatever our problems, Smalling is not the answer. He doesn’t fit our style of play and hopefully will have a good season and be sold for a good price.

I've never really seen Smalling fumble or struggle under the press to the point where its caused us a consistent problem. I never seen him trip like Jones, fumble like Bailly or hide like Lindelof.

This is all just guess work & as much as you may say that certain fans are forgetting how Smalling played for us - I think that could be also viewed the other way.

All the guy has to do is make an accurate pass to the next defender on either side of him & unfortunately for us - Lindelof doesn't do nothing more than that either.

Smalling did that under LVG, released the ball on to Blind who would play good balls in to attack & the same could be done with Maguire. The need for 2 Ball playing defenders is one of the most unnecessary things needed tactically & again.

The only reason I can see why Ole decided to put him on loan is because he was the only defender with any interest or - he was so keen on the defensive counterattack that he wanted two defenders to open up channels - but again unfortunately Lindelof can't pass with any flight on the ball.

 

[Mcking]

Maguires biggest strength when it comes to defending is his ability to clear balls from crosses, both high and low. He is exceptionally good at reading the game and position himself correctly. In that respect he is miles better than Smalling.

In a 1 vs 1 duel - Smalling is better of course.

In the box? Maguire has been very good in that aspect, and has definitely contributed to our defence looking stronger and more convincing from high crosses. I would say Smalling is quite good in that aspect too. Lindelof is decent while defending loose balls and through balls on the ground, and he tends to do the basics smoothly, but once an attacker is in play, he usually comes out second best.
I would have loved to see a Smalling-Maguire partnership but don't think it is going to happen now.

 

[Zlaatan]

This is just the classic, age old example of players getting infinitely better in their absence. Until they hit the pitch, and everyone remembers why we all thought they were shite in the first place. Smalling has been at United for a long time now and he’s been largely gash the entire time. He had a few decent runs of form, mainly under Van Gaal, but in reality he’s never been good enough.

The fact he has some of the worst footballing skills, with the ball at his feet, seen in the top flight, is what hampers him more than anything. This whole playing out from the back phenomenon, is suicide with a player like Smalling; and it’s no surprise he was dumped by England, and then United.

Lindelof, on the other hand, loses a couple of 50/50 headers - conveniently the one thing Smalling is good at - and suddenly he’s shite and Smalling is the reincarnation of Beckenbaur. Fact is, Lindelof is a much better footballer and was one of our best players last season, through a bleak period. His partnership with Maguire has serious potential. Whereas Smalling is a vestige of a past era, and his time has gone.

He’s not the answer to anything, except if the question is “which footballer does the best impression of a drunken new born deer on ice?”

The bolded parts are spot on.

I'd be terrified to have Smalling on the pitch with the way football is heading right now with more and more teams implementing a high press. We all see how Young is constantly getting trapped and hoofing it to nobody time and again, and he's twice the player Smalling is with the ball at his feet. That tank turret analogy people used for Smalling was spot on and on top of that he's not getting any younger either.

What I don't agree with is perhaps the potential of our current CB partnership as I don't think Lindelöf is good enough, but if we stick with him I hope he will prove me wrong.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Massive revisionism going on here by people who I suspect haven't been watching him.

but I've also read he's been a liability at times.

Why would you need to read about it if you've been watching him?

 

[A-man]

He is weak as well. People talking about defenders being good at defending by contributing in an attacking sense. Smalling does that, more so than Lindelof. First off he actually scores goals on set pieces. Also, he is physically imposing so he wins most duels and one on ones, often contributing to keeping our attacking shape, and continue the pressure. With Lindelof we concede possession a lot, and very unnecessarily. Not just from risky misplaced passes, but simply because he avoids duels. If he gets in a physical battle he'll lose the ball, or just play it out for a throw in. He does it all the time, when he should be winning the ball and getting it forward. @A-man That is how traditional, strong defensive attributes in a player can be used to benefit the team in an attacking sense.

There's levels to what certain players can bring in certain setups. It is best to evaluate them individually for that reason, without the limiting context and different buzzwords flying around.

There is huge improvement at the back when it comes to ball handling. Never any panic. When it comes to overall defending it looks so far as they are doing better than last season, but of course it can change over the season, we will see.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

There is huge improvement at the back when it comes to ball handling. Never any panic. When it comes to overall defending it looks so far as they are doing better than last season, but of course it can change over the season, we will see.

Really? Good few times already this season there have been severe panic stations mostly involving Lindelof.

 

[Oldyella]

There is huge improvement at the back when it comes to ball handling. Never any panic. When it comes to overall defending it looks so far as they are doing better than last season, but of course it can change over the season, we will see.

I think AWB is a massive part of that. Last couple of years our cb's, primarily Smalling but also whoever else played on the right were constantly dragged out of position as our RB spot was always a liability. That's been fixed now.

Get Tuanzebe playing regularly and we can move on Lindelof too who for all his 'ball playing ability' is no better than Smalling imo, constantly shuttling ball sideways with easy passes.

 

[jackal&hyde]

If he's terrible with the ball at his feet when pressed I'm sure you can list 5 times that Smalling was pressed into a mistake during his long tenure at the club

The midfield compensates for poor passing defenders by dropping deep to get simple passes. We did that all the time when Smalling was part of the team under 3 different managers.

In a perfect World he would have stayed and Jones would have left, but if Smalling wants to be first choice, then fair enough of him to leave. In the way United wants to play he is never going to replace players like Maguire, Lindelof or Tuanzebe.

 

[brownyorkshireman]

Genuinely baffled how people think Smalling would still have a place in this united squad. The reality is nowadays you need 2 centre backs who can both pass out from the back, allowing the team to play a high line and control possession.

Putting Smalling in this team would mean having to go back to playing a low-block and that's why he has no place in this squad. Yes he's a strong aggressive defender but looking at the top teams in football nowadays, hardly any of them have aggressive defenders, because they prioritise a cb who can pass and control possession. Smalling suits Italian football quite well so hopefully Roma do make a good offer for united to accept. But no way do i ever want to see him in a united shirt again.

 

[A-man]

Really? Good few times already this season there have been severe panic stations mostly involving Lindelof.

Yes, really, staying calm under pressure and continue to move around the ball is one of the few very big improvements from last season. And also very important in PL football of today. I have seen all matches except a few of the cup matches, so maybe you could share which matches you think there was ”severe panic” when the 4 at the back had the ball?

I think AWB is a massive part of that. Last couple of years our cb's, primarily Smalling but also whoever else played on the right were constantly dragged out of position as our RB spot was always a liability. That's been fixed now.

Get Tuanzebe playing regularly and we can move on Lindelof too who for all his 'ball playing ability' is no better than Smalling imo, constantly shuttling ball sideways with easy passes.

Yes AWB has added a lot to this, agree. When it comes to Tuanzebe it is a little too early to evaluate. He has had two PL starts this season. One was pretty bad and one ok. He has many good features but also some that makes be doubt he will be a good partner to Maguire. Lindelof is good at covering for Maguire, but it looks to me like Tuanzebe wants to go forward in a similar way as Maguire. But we will see, so far no ody has really seen much of Tuanzebe on this level.

The calmness at the back which I see as one of the huge improvements this season, would not be possible with Smalling. Lindelof is much better in that sense, just like Smalling is much better in the air. They have very different qualities, which actually made Smalling/Lindelof a decent CB pair in many matches.

 

[A-man]

The midfield compensates for poor passing defenders by dropping deep to get simple passes. We did that all the time when Smalling was part of the team under 3 different managers.

In a perfect World he would have stayed and Jones would have left, but if Smalling wants to be first choice, then fair enough of him to leave. In the way United wants to play he is never going to replace players like Maguire, Lindelof or Tuanzebe.

The midfielders had to fall back to collect the ball. Very often it was Pogba who collected the ball which means the only creative midfielder in the team was found more or less in a cb position.

Genuinely baffled how people think Smalling would still have a place in this united squad. The reality is nowadays you need 2 centre backs who can both pass out from the back, allowing the team to play a high line and control possession.

Putting Smalling in this team would mean having to go back to playing a low-block and that's why he has no place in this squad. Yes he's a strong aggressive defender but looking at the top teams in football nowadays, hardly any of them have aggressive defenders, because they prioritise a cb who can pass and control possession. Smalling suits Italian football quite well so hopefully Roma do make a good offer for united to accept. But no way do i ever want to see him in a united shirt again.

I agree. People often tend to think it is enough with one CB who is good with his feet, but you need two to benefit fully and to be able to play around under pressure. He would be the perfect substitute though, in matches where you need to add capacity at the back or front. For example when you end up defending all the time he is perfect. Like a Fellaini sometimes was a great guy to have as a sub.

 

[fps]

Defending is acting while the other team has the ball, in ways that helps stop them scoring a goal. Its pretty simple really. It has nothing to do with when you have the ball because then you don't need to defend. You need to attack

No, that’s not correct, especially in the modern game, and also Smalling to my mind doesn’t gel with others in the back line or marshal them that well.

 

[JPB]

It would be nice if some Roma fans could chime in here with this argument. Is he a good defender or is he a liability, like some people here would have us believe? Do we even have Roma fans on our forum? I suspect they are thrilled with him.

 

[A-man]

All defenders hoof the ball at times and pass at others

Of course just like all goalkeepers make saves sometimes, doesn’t make them equally good.

Let’s say you have 10 situations where both defender A and B manage to defend.

Defender A hoofs/clears away the ball randomly 7 times and create a corner 3 times.

Defender B hoofs away the ball 2 times and control the ball 8 times.

Defender B is doing a better job imo. He is, if only looking at the data above, the better defender because he controls the ball instead of giving the other team a second chance.

 

[A-man]

It would be nice if some Roma fans could chime in here with this argument. Is he a good defender or is he a liability, like some people here would have us believe? Do we even have Roma fans on our forum? I suspect they are thrilled with him.

There have been one or two Roma fans posting here. It seems they are very happy with him and think he suits Italian football (with less pressure on the CB) much better than PL football.

 

[Eugenius]

Genuinely baffled how people think Smalling would still have a place in this united squad. The reality is nowadays you need 2 centre backs who can both pass out from the back, allowing the team to play a high line and control possession.

Putting Smalling in this team would mean having to go back to playing a low-block and that's why he has no place in this squad. Yes he's a strong aggressive defender but looking at the top teams in football nowadays, hardly any of them have aggressive defenders, because they prioritise a cb who can pass and control possession. Smalling suits Italian football quite well so hopefully Roma do make a good offer for united to accept. But no way do i ever want to see him in a united shirt again.

That's just revisionism. We played a high line and passing game under LvG and he was player's player of the season. He actually was worse in Mourinho's low block defensively. His best attribute is winning the ball back high and early, and his recovery pace.

 

[JPB]

That's just revisionism. We played a high line and passing game under LvG and he was player's player of the season. He actually was worse in Mourinho's low block defensively. His best attribute is winning the ball back high and early, and his recovery pace.

Don't bother. You're wasting your time. I'm pretty sure people don't watch United themselves. They just copy what other people wright on this forum. It's hilarious.

 

[Mcking]

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[11101]

That's just revisionism. We played a high line and passing game under LvG and he was player's player of the season. He actually was worse in Mourinho's low block defensively. His best attribute is winning the ball back high and early, and his recovery pace.

We had 2 defensive midfielders at all times that season to cover our defence.

Honestly i don't know why people can't accept he was not good enough and he's gone. We don't have perfect players now but as a unit we are definitely better, and it seems he is better suited to Serie A.

 

[Skills]

Genuinely baffled how people think Smalling would still have a place in this united squad. The reality is nowadays you need 2 centre backs who can both pass out from the back, allowing the team to play a high line and control possession.

Putting Smalling in this team would mean having to go back to playing a low-block and that's why he has no place in this squad. Yes he's a strong aggressive defender but looking at the top teams in football nowadays, hardly any of them have aggressive defenders, because they prioritise a cb who can pass and control possession. Smalling suits Italian football quite well so hopefully Roma do make a good offer for united to accept. But no way do i ever want to see him in a united shirt again.

Wait, what are we playing now?

 

[romufc]

We had 2 defensive midfielders at all times that season to cover our defence.

Honestly i don't know why people can't accept he was not good enough and he's gone. We don't have perfect players now but as a unit we are definitely better, and it seems he is better suited to Serie A.

This is what alot of Manutd "fans" seem to miss.

He has been here for a while, not just 2/3 seasons and yet he hadn't established himself as a top CB? If he was as good as some people making out to be, he would be first choice for managers and Jose woulnd't have tried to keep signing CB's and Ole too. Plus he doesn't make it into the England team either in an area where the national team isnt blessed with the greatest talents.

The same applies to Lukaku, we need to let go some players before we can move on.

 

[Hammondo]

This is what alot of Manutd "fans" seem to miss.

He has been here for a while, not just 2/3 seasons and yet he hadn't established himself as a top CB? If he was as good as some people making out to be, he would be first choice for managers and Jose woulnd't have tried to keep signing CB's and Ole too. Plus he doesn't make it into the England team either in an area where the national team isnt blessed with the greatest talents.

The same applies to Lukaku, we need to let go some players before we can move on.

They tried to buy other CB's because Smallings partners were poor.

He was first choice for all the other managers.

 

[Eckers99]

He's a very good defender. Decent in the air, strong, very good 1v1, pretty quick. However his inability to pass to anyone other than the nearest full back (Young), which often put the whole team under pressure, was a real problem last year. If it had been up to me, he wouldn't have been the first defender out the door. That said, I'm not overly arsed he's left.

 

[romufc]

They tried to buy other CB's because Smallings partners were poor.

He was first choice for all the other managers.

Not by choice, he tended to be the only one who was fit.

An established CB who is first choice I think of when managers are changed are:

Kompany, John Terry, Rio, Ramos - where doesnt matter who the manager is, they know who the first name on the team sheet is.

Smalling was never that, and it was time to get rid of him. He was an OK CB.

He had enough time to develop himself into a CB.

 

[poleglass red]

Issue with Smalling is, as a defender he's decent, can do a good marking job on a top player and do well. That's fine playing the likes of City and Liverpool. His problem is when we play teams who sit back. Even in our current poor situation, many teams will park the bus against us. In these types of games his lack of composure on the ball is highlighted. Ole obviously wants to play more from the back, as does Southgate for England and Smalling doesn't fit that system. No-one saying he's a bad player, he's not. In fact I'd of liked to have kept him for certain games, but at this stage of his career he needs to be playing regular football, and he won't get that with us.

 

[Oldyella]

This is what alot of Manutd "fans" seem to miss.

He has been here for a while, not just 2/3 seasons and yet he hadn't established himself as a top CB? If he was as good as some people making out to be, he would be first choice for managers and Jose woulnd't have tried to keep signing CB's and Ole too. Plus he doesn't make it into the England team either in an area where the national team isnt blessed with the greatest talents.

The same applies to Lukaku, we need to let go some players before we can move on.

Oh bollocks to that. Sorry but just because some fans rate a player or not. We are mostly all Utd fans here so putting it in " " is a cheap dig that's not needed.

 

[Hammondo]

Not by choice, he tended to be the only one who was fit.

An established CB who is first choice I think of when managers are changed are:

Kompany, John Terry, Rio, Ramos - where doesnt matter who the manager is, they know who the first name on the team sheet is.

Smalling was never that, and it was time to get rid of him. He was an OK CB.

He had enough time to develop himself into a CB.

He was always that until Ole. That is total nonsense, he was picked constantly because he was clearly the best. His teammate was changed so often because the rest were poor, and no one could decide which was the least bad to play with him.

 

[romufc]

He was always that until Ole. That is total nonsense, he was picked constantly because he was clearly the best. His teammate was changed so often because the rest were poor, and no one could decide which was the least bad to play with him.

If you say so, but the fact is Ole is the manager now and is not a fan for numerous reasons.

If you are a first choice Manutd CB and cannot get into the National team then it says alot about the quality of the CB. John Stones who is not a regular at City gets in ahead of him.

Maguire is first choice for Manutd and England.

 

[Bwuk]

He was always that until Ole. That is total nonsense, he was picked constantly because he was clearly the best. His teammate was changed so often because the rest were poor, and no one could decide which was the least bad to play with him.

No he wasn't.

Jose tried with Blind & Bailly before injuries.

 

[11101]

They tried to buy other CB's because Smallings partners were poor.

He was first choice for all the other managers.

He was usually benched for the first few games of a season, until the alternatives picked up injuries and then he was back in the team. We were always trying to replace him.

 

[Renegade]

He was usually benched for the first few games of a season, until the alternatives picked up injuries and then he was back in the team. We were always trying to replace him.

till the alternatives turned out to be worse you mean?

 

[tenpoless]

Only in RedCafe exists a massive revisionism for a massive revisionism.

The truth is somewhere in between. He's not Kross, Ramos or Irramendi of football. He's not a trash player either. He played so many times because He was the most reliable (not injury prone, know how to defend) out of a bunch We had. But He's not a modern CB and while I'd still pick him ahead of Rojo and Jones, We can do better for first choice CB (which is why We signed Maguire).

 

[A-man]

He was usually benched for the first few games of a season, until the alternatives picked up injuries and then he was back in the team. We were always trying to replace him.

I think he has played because he was always one of the top two options. But at thirty he has reached his prime and I don’t see any chance he will develop much further. Since he is not at the level needed, and dont have the qualities that Ole seems to want for his players, it makes sense to move on.

 

[Oldyella]

If you say so, but the fact is Ole is the manager now and is not a fan for numerous reasons.

If you are a first choice Manutd CB and cannot get into the National team then it says alot about the quality of the CB. John Stones who is not a regular at City gets in ahead of him.

Maguire is first choice for Manutd and England.

Good job we didnt think the same when Bruce played. Who gives a F about whether players can play for their national teams or not?

I think he has played because he was always one of the top two options. But at thirty he has reached his prime and I don’t see any chance he will develop much further. Since he is not at the level needed, and dont have the qualities that Ole seems to want for his players, it makes sense to move on.

Yup. Ole is the boss and the club have to back his calls. I would have kept him but Ole needed to move someone on and I cant see any of our other players getting too much interest.

 

[The Cat]

Only in RedCafe exists a massive revisionism for a massive revisionism.

The truth is somewhere in between. He's not Kross, Ramos or Irramendi of football. He's not a trash player either. He played so many times because He was the most reliable (not injury prone, know how to defend) out of a bunch We had. But He's not a modern CB and while I'd still pick him ahead of Rojo and Jones, We can do better for first choice CB (which is why We signed Maguire).

That's spot on. And it's no coincidence Jones and Rojo are still here and Smalling got a move.

 

[11101]

till the alternatives turned out to be worse you mean?

Doesnt really matter. He still wasn't good enough for where we wanted to be and we have finally found a better pairing.

 

[romufc]

Good job we didnt think the same when Bruce played. Who gives a F about whether players can play for their national teams or not?

There is a major.. with capital M difference between Bruce and Smalling.

If you think Smalling is on that level then I am sorry mate, I completely disagree.

 

[simonhch]

He was always that until Ole. That is total nonsense, he was picked constantly because he was clearly the best. His teammate was changed so often because the rest were poor, and no one could decide which was the least bad to play with him.

The only manager who picked him as first choice was LVG in his second season. Even he started out preferring Jones until his injuries kicked in. Every single manager has had him 3rd choice at best.

 

[MadDogg]

Putting Smalling in this team would mean having to go back to playing a low-block and that's why he has no place in this squad. Yes he's a strong aggressive defender but looking at the top teams in football nowadays, hardly any of them have aggressive defenders, because they prioritise a cb who can pass and control possession. Smalling suits Italian football quite well so hopefully Roma do make a good offer for united to accept. But no way do i ever want to see him in a united shirt again.

That's definitely not the case. Smalling was always at his best when he was playing a high line, where he could really isolate the opposition strikers and just dominate them. He played his own part in that by constantly winning the ball back all the time and instantly getting us back on the ball and attack, even if he wasn't good at contributing to the attack itself. He was always a bit weaker (still comfortably our best, but definitely a lower level) when playing a low-block and having to be more reactive.

He was always that until Ole. That is total nonsense, he was picked constantly because he was clearly the best. His teammate was changed so often because the rest were poor, and no one could decide which was the least bad to play with him.

Nah, it was quite obvious that Mourinho in particular wanted to replace him, but each time the replacements failed (sometimes injury, sometimes poor form) so Smalling would come back in and stay in until he got injured. Then it would start all over again, with Mourinho trying the other combos until they inevitably failed and he'd come back to Smalling again. Even after Smalling was by far the first choice in the second half of 17/18 (every match was basically Smalling plus a different partner), the next season Mourinho started with the Bailly/Lindelof partnership for a couple of games before Bailly was just too bad and Smalling was quickly bought back in.

Obviously in a perfect world we want our defender to be better on the ball than Smalling which is why our managers always tried the other combinations first. But up until now (and a decent argument can be made that it is still the case) the other options simply weren't as good overall as their slightly better ball-playing ability was not worth the decline in actual defensive ability.

It's what many of us were expecting to happen again this season, with Ole obviously starting the season with the Maguire/Lindelof combo but there being something like a 50/50 chance that Smalling would end up overtaking Lindelof. Letting him go out on loan was a surprise that hopefully won't come back to bite us in the arse.