City show there are NO excuses for our opening day flop | Utd return the favour GW2

[tomaldinho1]

Wolves are a far better barometer in fairness given they finished near us in the league and had a similar Europa run, they took the game to City in the second half.

We have no excuse - we don't have some higher power making it harder for our players, we simply were second best in every department against Palace.

The squad depth argument is also a lie, there isn't team in the league bar Chelsea and City who have real genuine quality depth, even Liverpool see a big drop off outside of their main XI overall. The whole point of a good coach is to improve players and not just buy more and more until they strike gold.

The time for excuses is long past and we have to be able to separate the on-field performances from the issues with our owners. Neither is acceptable but the latter is not totally dependent on the former, we have to have some basic standards when it comes to match preparation, tactics and player performances.

 

[TommiHelm]

Who bloody cares about City. If they had lost 5-0 to Wolves it wouldn't change the fact that we should have no problem beating Crystal Palace at home with our squad, no matter if we're 70, 80, 90, or 100% match fit. The players that played should beat Crystal Palace (or at the very least play well enough to deserve a win). The amount of silly excuses people have for how shit we are is getting ridiculous.

 

[Toni's Left Foot]

Is there anything to be said for an auld Mass?

 

[Denis79]

Who bloody cares about City. If they had lost 5-0 to Wolves it wouldn't change the fact that we should have no problem beating Crystal Palace at home with our squad, no matter if we're 70, 80, 90, or 100% match fit. The players that played should beat Crystal Palace (or at the very least play well enough to deserve a win). The amount of silly excuses people have for how shit we are is getting ridiculous.

Agree, it's not that we lost, it's the way we lost that is unacceptable.

 

[TMDaines]

Thats a terrible line up and both you and me know that if Ole had put out those guys (and most likely lost vs Palace) he would have been torn to shreds on here. We do have a massive squad, true, problem is that outside of the obvious first XI they're not very good

It's not ideal, but with match practice and a proper pre-season behind them it would have been far better than what ambled out at Old Trafford on Saturday. It was embarrassing how far off the pace many of our players were and they were outclassed by a side that is worse on paper than the one I just listed.

 

[Alexit]

We aren't good enough. That is where we are. We are a rudderless ship. No leadership at the top. Inexperienced direction at coaching level.

This article speaks to the latter.

 

[Bobcat]

It's not ideal, but with match practice and a proper pre-season behind them it would have been far better than what ambled out at Old Trafford on Saturday. It was embarrassing how far off the pace many of our players were and they were outclassed by a side that is worse on paper than the one I just listed.

But would that been clever or even possible though? Say he sent half the squad on some kind of preseason tour while the important players were allowed holiday, thats the kind of thing that can really create a foul mood in any work environment. And was it even possible with covid restrictions and whatnot? I dont know impossible, but a lot more complicated for sure.

It was a rotten performance for sure, but i dont think there was any easy solutions to this scenario. Most of the first XI players were running on fumes the last couple of games of last season and were badly in need of a rest, so getting them back in training might be risky in terms of fatigue and injuries. We saw the other extreme where they were given a long holiday and we show up the the first game completely lacking match fitness

 

[Offside]

I’m not so sure I don’t think it’s a stand alone excuse but Palace did look extremely sharp the other night. We all know full well that we’re better than that on Saturday. It was our first league loss since January and the first time we conceded 3 in a league game since April 2019. This obviously wasn’t “same shit” from us.

Clearly we had issues beyond the quality in the team and I do think many of them were the fact that Palace were so much fitter and energetic than us.

Palace played their first pre-season game less than 10 days after we’d played our last game of last season. Pretty mental.

 

[Yagami]

I struggle to understand what is manager's job anymore.
Team looks letargic. It is on players.
Team looks without desire. It is on players.
Team "don't show up" on first half. It is on players.
Team looks tired. It is on players.
Team play badly. It is on players.
Some hugely talented players play badly. It is on them.
We start with wrong formation. It is on Glazers.
New signing flops. It is on Ed.

So, what is manager's job, ffs?

Sir Alex's retirement speech really caused a problem in this regard. Our managers can get away with murder to some.

One day - in the hopefully not too distant future - when we finally hire a modern day, progressive manager, a lot of our fans will be in for a shock at what said manager can do to a teams play style regardless of splashing £100m on superstar players.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

City looked fairly tired after 70 minutes, with Wolves coming more and more into the game. So, it is not like they where anywhere close to physically ready either. Big difference is that City and their players have a mutual understanding on how to play and are able to play as a cohesive unit and are less dependent on being extremely fit to pass the ball around. Still, they did not press hard the whole game, so the pressing was affected by their lack of a longer pre-season.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

city drew with palace last season... why are people trying to explain one result with reference to another result? we weren't at our best full stop, there isn't an excuse nor does ole need one. 'that 11 should be able to beat palace' but prime barcelona probably lost to elche or someone. what is this thread even about

 

[Lagger]

Theyve had pressure free football since Christmas. Underperforming to the point they had lost more games than we did, routinely rotating the squad as well.
Its not even close to being the same scenario.

I can't imagine a sentence like that being written by a United fan 10 years ago. Quite unthinkable.

 

[RonaldoVII]

There has been much said about our loss to Palace being about poor [match] fitness and a lack of pre-season due to our missing out of first week PL action because of our European endeavours.

But Man City were in precisely the same situation tonight because of European competition, and managed to get past a better Wolves side 3-1 away from home.

Not only that Phil Foden who was in similar off-field problems to Greenwood... started. And scored.

Our diabolical performance on Saturday has much to do with the level of ambition our players are seeing, and the fans are seeing, in our transfer dealings. The bull from the top filters down.

Is Ole at fault? Yes. He is an inexperienced coach that is perhaps too nice for the role he is in. You cannot make fitness the excuse as a manager when over your shoulder your city rivals are putting egg on your face.

But getting rid of him is not the solution. The solution is to change the ownership and that is not going to happen anytime soon.

He has similar experience to Guardiola. Just at a different level.

 

[Zlatan 7]

It’s so tiring seeing this thread amongst the other Ole/ team/ player bashing threads continually on the new posts page. There’s been one game played and already threads like this and sir Poch threads being bumped. No context, just instant whinging and wanting. Modern day football is a drag

 

[Munkehboi]

Rather than comparing us to City, I posted in another thread that Bayern Munich played Lyon in the CL semi-finals three days after we played Sevilla and then played PSG in the CL final 4 days later.

They then go and start their domestic season 2 days before we do and trounce Schalke 8-0 where for 80 minutes the pressed high and completely decimated them. Sure, Schalke right now are a terrible relegation side but the fitness level from their players are out of this world compared to ours.

 

[TMDaines]

But would that been clever or even possible though? Say he sent half the squad on some kind of preseason tour while the important players were allowed holiday, thats the kind of thing that can really create a foul mood in any work environment. And was it even possible with covid restrictions and whatnot? I dont know impossible, but a lot more complicated for sure.

It was a rotten performance for sure, but i dont think there was any easy solutions to this scenario. Most of the first XI players were running on fumes the last couple of games of last season and were badly in need of a rest, so getting them back in training might be risky in terms of fatigue and injuries. We saw the other extreme where they were given a long holiday and we show up the the first game completely lacking match fitness

It happens every other year with some players getting extended leave after a deep run in international tournaments.

 

[cyberman]

I can't imagine a sentence like that being written by a United fan 10 years ago. Quite unthinkable.

Was there a pandemic 10 years ago?

 

[Dve]

There has been much said about our loss to Palace being about poor [match] fitness and a lack of pre-season due to our missing out of first week PL action because of our European endeavours.

But Man City were in precisely the same situation tonight because of European competition, and managed to get past a better Wolves side 3-1 away from home.

Not only that Phil Foden who was in similar off-field problems to Greenwood... started. And scored.

Our diabolical performance on Saturday has much to do with the level of ambition our players are seeing, and the fans are seeing, in our transfer dealings. The bull from the top filters down.

Is Ole at fault? Yes. He is an inexperienced coach that is perhaps too nice for the role he is in. You cannot make fitness the excuse as a manager when over your shoulder your city rivals are putting egg on your face.

But getting rid of him is not the solution. The solution is to change the ownership and that is not going to happen anytime soon.

Football is not maths, you know. The result in one game does not prove anything about the result in another gamer. And for the record, city looked tired as well and were lucky in the end to get away with the points. Greenwood should have scored because Foden did, and they both went to Iceland? Haha.

What happened on Saturday, was that United lost a game of football - first loss in the PL since January. There are many reasons why we lost, but saying that City winning against Wolves offer some sort of proof of Ole´s inexperience or him being too nice, is just silly. City sometimes lose too. It´s football, it happens.

 

[midnightmare]

Wow. The reactions on this one! It's almost as if nobody has perspective any more. Lost to Palace? Sack the manager. If he's so inept, how do we explain his "Top 6" record? Tactically inept manager beat City home and away... Should Pep be sacked too? Our squad is so thin, we pretty much picked an unchanged 11 (barring injuries and the match vs Sevilla) in every game post-lockdown. On the manager? Sure, but if he'd played Andreas, Lingard or McTominay and lost, that would be on him too - and we'd have missed Top 4. So, we ended the season with a clearly shattered squad. We then had Pogba contract COVID and Bruno go home for childbirth. Could have rested them? Did you see the impact of playing Scott instead of the just-returned-and-therefore-not-fit Matic?

There are two sides to everything. Sure, Ole may not be the man to win us a title. But there is literally no way to assess what he can do as long as he's saddled with this squad, bloated as it is with players that just are not good enough. We saw that run we went on when everyone was actually fit. Couldn't stop scoring and winning. But look at the gulf when even a single player is not available. It's a chasm.

Oh and comparing with City? Seriously? Surely there is enough to show that they are just far superior to this United team? If you have a better bunch, they'll do better. Simple. Also, do compare how many minutes each of their players has played since June. Not seen it myself, but given how Pep rotates, fair chance that every single one of our "first choice" outfield players (barring Shaw, who is coming back from injury) has played more than any of theirs.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

The excuse is we got an average manager that do not know how to set them up with so little time.
We are terrible against defensive sides like Palace too.
Brighton should give us more space, but they are also showing good form so not going to be much easier.

 

[Rolaholic]

There is a vacuum in our squad when it comes to winners. That’s why I find it appalling that Maguire is a captain. The bloke has never achieved anything of note in the game. Sums up the systematic lowering of standards at United.

You'll get attacked for that but I agree 100%. Would've faster given it Dave or Matic ahead of him after 4 months but I guess its a reflection of where we are presently I suppose...

 

[Dve]

Rather than comparing us to City, I posted in another thread that Bayern Munich played Lyon in the CL semi-finals three days after we played Sevilla and then played PSG in the CL final 4 days later.

They then go and start their domestic season 2 days before we do and trounce Schalke 8-0 where for 80 minutes the pressed high and completely decimated them. Sure, Schalke right now are a terrible relegation side but the fitness level from their players are out of this world compared to ours.

While PSG, on the other hand, had a terrible start of the season...

Irrelevant, of course, since the French league was called off, and the German league ended long before ours.

 

[LVGSdive]

City played better but their intensity dropped in the second half. They are not match fit either. Most teams are in pre season really but some play better in pre season than others.

 

[Not a plastic hoe.]

I agree with you OP! (hope the sugarcoating stops really)

 

[Web of Bissaka]

But, but... we need a nice excuse

 

[He'sRaldo]

This article speaks to the latter.

Good article. Basically explains the on pitch problem.

 

[Alexit]

Good article. Basically explains the on pitch problem.

Indeed it does.

 

[Buster15]

Their win is irrelevant, those 3 points don't matter yet.

How does that make any sense?
Isn't that the objective; to win the game.

 

[Tony247]

This article speaks to the latter.

This article has very compelling points. Can't argue with that. Although I am not sold on Poch as a replacement.

 

[Buster15]

City are a much better team

And much better prepared and much better coached with much better tactics.

 

[Denis79]

How does that make any sense?
Isn't that the objective; to win the game.

He's making a reference to an older thread where the poster called our loss to Crystal Palace irrelevant.

 

[Buster15]

He's making a reference to an older thread where the poster called our loss to Crystal Palace irrelevant.

Understood. Thanks.

 

[lsd]

And much better prepared and much better coached with much better tactics.

Not really City would still be better if we swapped Managers and coaches

 

[Lagger]

Was there a pandemic 10 years ago?

No, but 10 years United wouldn't have let that be an excuse. They'd just play hard as they always did back then.

 

[Rozay]

And any weekend where United win and they don’t, we show that there are ‘no excuses’ either. Stupidity.

 

[Fussball13251]

And much better prepared and much better coached with much better tactics.

Pep and Klopp are the best managers out there. I think it is difficult for some to accept his. That's not to downplay Ole but Pep and klopp are just the best. Ole is still learning. Ole and Lambard are still rookies. Even Rodgers is more tactically astute/mature/experienced than these two... as much as I would love Rodgers to fail.

You saw this against Luton Town.. nobody was assigned to pull the strings. But simply being far superior won in the end. But premiership teams are much better than Luton.

 

[Sky1981]

"ole was dealth with an unfit squad"

Give him a preseason and we'll see about it

-Redcafe 2018-

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

No, but 10 years United wouldn't have let that be an excuse. They'd just play hard as they always did back then.

We lost 0-1 against Everton in the opening game of Fergie’s last season, with an unfit Rooney went off injured.

I’m far from happy with OGS as manager and the results but this forum has become truly bipolar nowadays. Shit happens.

 

[0161_UNITED]

/Close Thread

Bollocks. Our club captain got arrested in Greece and was in the papers every day. Our 18 year old right winger had a media frenzy around him for the Iceland incident. Pogba had bloody COVID. Bruno was on international duty (as so many of our players were) and never got a proper vacation or downtime. I think Wan-Bissaka was quarantined as well. We shouldn't lose to Crystal Palace at home, but we don't have fans in the stadium, and City's bench and reserves is basically a B-team that would qualify for 6th and challenge Arsenal and Spurs for 6th place any day.

Bollocks.

Close this thread, it's a proper disgrace.

 

[slir32]

No matter the fitness levels there was no excuse for slow zombie passing. What does that have to do with fitness? It doesn't take energy to pass the pall faster. I didn't even see us string 4 or 5 quick passes together when we won possession palace had time to get back setup in their box order a frappe from Greece have it delivered drink it then our players arrived.