Of course call him racist for making a fine point about the world responding to different races.
Climate Change | UN Report: Code Red for humanity
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Didn't want to bring race in the discussion, he did and is absolutely disgusting. Everybody should be entitled to have a saying despite a race. Race should be out of the discussion
Are you purposefully being dumb or just instigative? Dunno which is worse. That sentence had qualifiers:
Privileged rich white Swedish artistic family.
Do you have a problem with me calling out a privileged white family?
He discriminates her for matters that has nothing to do with climate change. take it the way you prefer it
I don't judge people from where they come from when has nothing to do with the topic. PERIOD
The race + socio economic background was mentioned to explain her socio economic standing and status. You have no logical reply to all my posts and are just taking desperate cheap hits on something I never mentioned.
As if I said her race is an issue. How dumb.
I mean yes it should, but like I said earlier it's been 9 years and no one saved Syrian kids, it's been even more years and starving children in Africa aren't saved, it's how the world works and shutting your eyes to it because you don't want to believe it is part of the problem of course.
I don't either, until I hear them talk and their speech SCREAMS privileged white family with no exposure to the real world.
What has to do her race and status with climate change? just to descredit stupidly
But he didn't, he said that a lot of people will see it as a previliged white girl that is telling them they ruined her childhood while actual children are getting raped and killed in many disgusting ways and no one even care.
What has to do syrian kids with climate change and Greta. this is just ridiculuous. I am out of here.
If you're just gonna pick and chose sentences out of context it obviously won't make sense.
It has absolutely nothing to do with it, because those two issues are not global issues discussed, guess where, at the UN.
Again,
Being better off than others doesn't mean you don't have the right to improve or be better. White priviledge is for labour rights, gender violence and so. Nothing with the climkate change opinion is plainly stupid and just a generic excuse to discredit someone.
SOmeone is arguing better than you? " but but but she is white privileged"
And now yes. Goodbye
I'm not saying she doesn't have the right, I said in this thread before I agree with her and like what she said, but I'm just saying you shouldn't dismiss shamans opinion just because you don't like it because it's valid.
I think people care, I just dont think they know how to influence whats happening in Syria. Or Africa.
It's been 9 years man, it really hurts.
They(we) know, and they/we can. They just don't care enough to do anything.
We'll i personally dont know how to help. I wish i could
Shamans I don’t think you can accuse people of not taking climate change seriously because of their positive views on Greta Thunderberg, when you offer rubbish like the sentences I’ve bolded.
You’ve constantly provided incorrect claims in this thread, and when your mistakes have been pointed out to you you’ve either doubled down or refused to respond. You keep taking contradictory viewpoints as well. You say that there’s no point to Greta’s speeches as anyone who can be persuaded to change their views on CC will have done so by now, yet in the next post you say that she needs replacing as she’s not a competent enough orator and we need someone more polished.
You criticise the fact that she hasn’t experienced ‘the real world’ as if that invalidates what she’s saying. If someone tells me I’ve got to get out of the house because there’s a fire upstairs I’m not going to refuse because the guy who relayed the information to me didn’t serve in ‘nam. And of course she’s a meme, it’s 2019, everything’s a meme. Every prominent politician, activist, celebrity etc, they all get turned into memes. It doesn’t invalidate her, nor does it invalidate CC.
I don’t want you to feel like I’m shitting on you, you seem like a friendly guy. But I’ve found your contributions to this thread to be pretty damn poor.
1) I have seen and heard many statistics saying India + China contribute more than U.S.A. I even remember the statistics it was something U.S.A having 17 percent , China almost double and India somewhere in between. I can't find that specific graph anymore. I found another one and someone told me that's C02 emissions and not greenhouses gasses.
Anyway, even if I am wrong about the specifics people are missing my point which is the reason I didn't respond. If the argument is gonna be about details that don't matter it's all about one proving themselves right over the other and not the actual fact.
My point was there are countries other than the U.S that do absolutely nothing about global warming but hardly get the attention for it. This isn't whataboutism, it would be if I said U.S doesn't need to take action. I suppose there are no Chinese on this website and I wont offend them so let's just take China's case. No one is bothered about China and they are absolutely pounding the world with emissions.
2) How is the bold a contradiction? I am saying anyone who would be persuaded to change would have or wouldn't have or still may be able to but not due to this speech. This is not the level of urgency we need. This isn't a platform for bold kids to showcase their talents.
3) I talked about her privileges because of the style of her speech and how ineffective it was. Her speech was pretty bad imo and I attest it to the fact that she is 16 from a sheltered upbringing. Anyway, that doesn't matter. I am not saying you shouldn't listen to her BECAUSE of her background. I think he speech was bad because of it. There's a difference, but it doesn't matter.
She's become a bigger meme than any other climate change activist and I do think it's because it wasn't a very helpful way to convey the message.
Finally, I have nothing against greta herself. It's the people who organized this. I don't understand how you all can't see they are treating this as a super bowl half time show. Bring on the kids for the climate change portion and then let the big boys discuss the real issues. It's insulting towards climate change.
If this helps climate change, I am all for it. If I am wrong about this and this really is helping climate change then good and my opinion shouldn't matter. I think its not helping at all and further adding to the casual approach we all have towards climate change. The image of "meh, climate change? You must really be out there. Are you the sort that don't wear shoes? haha" and "meh a kid talking about climate change. She'll grow out of it" -- UNFORTUNATELY does get propelled by such speeches in my opinion.
China signed the Paris agreement and has made policy changes such as restricting coal consumption to meet its targets.
It honestly sounds like you know absolutely nothing about any of this.
Are you arguing with me that China is doing more than any other country regarding climate change?
of course not
I'm not even going to bother explaining my post again, you know what it meant
I don't know what it meant because signing the Paris Agreement doesn't mean anything. That agreement has received a lot of criticism because it has no enforcing mechanism. In fact, I think none of the big players who signed it have done shit about anything mentioned in it.
What does China signing it mean when right now China is fecking the world with worst pollutants.
Firstly you are parroting (excuse the pun) a Donald Trump falsehood. Yes turbines do kill birds, but there are ways to prevent that. One is using using a sonic beacon that emits a sound that forces the birds to fly around the structure. Another is netting around the windmill and another is lighting that ensures the birds fly away or around the structure. You will be saying windmills cause cancer next. Any excuse to repeat Republican scare tactics to preserve their money train from their vested interests.
However, you have a fecking nerve and are a fine one to talk about windmills killing birds whilst producing energy yet you promote and defend owning guns that kill people and kids at school all because, in your own words, "They are fun to shoot, and... its fun shooting shit"
Solar works at night too ffs. Solar works on photons and the light reflected from the moon from the sun at night can be used with solar panels. Anyway, that's a moronic argument as solar panels often produce more electricity than is required per home that has them on their roof. Also, wind can be utilised far better and more money can be put in to hydro power. The UK is an island and wave power and the sea can 100% be the way forward except those with a vested interest in oil, petrol and diesel obviously don't want to divulge that information.
What a cynical and bitter person you must be to criticize and ridicule a 16-year-old who believes in something and is trying to do something about it. When you add the fact that that something is important to the entire planet, it becomes insanity.
Like I said those policies aren't getting enforced last I checked. If China is what's setting the example we sure are screwed.
nonsense
If you’ve seen and heard many statistics that prove it then share some. It wasn’t CO2 emissions (you’d sill be wrong on that front too) you sent a graph about air pollution. These details do matter Shamans what you said and what graphs you sent were completely different things. You tell people not to listen to Greta who’s message is ‘listen to the scientists on climate change’ and yet you post verifiably untrue things about CC and we’re here listening to you.
No one missed your point, it was just not a very well thought out point is it. China and India haven’t gone to bed mommy why the hell should I?!?
It’s a contradiction the same way your paragraph here is a contradiction mate
She has become a bigger meme than any other climate change activist. Can you tell me of a bigger climate change activist?
What part of her speech highlighted her privileged upbringing?
Here’s some information regarding her impact I stole from Wikipedia, please read it if you have time. Find her annoying or whatever, it’s subjective. But to deny her impact is you putting your hands over your ears and screaming lalalala at the top of your voice.
Thunberg has inspired a number of her school-aged peers in what has been described as the "Greta Thunberg effect".[52] In response to her outspoken stance, various politicians have also acknowledged the need to focus on climate change. Britain's secretary for the environment, Michael Gove, said: "When I listened to you, I felt great admiration, but also responsibility and guilt. I am of your parents' generation, and I recognise that we haven't done nearly enough to address climate change and the broader environmental crisis that we helped to create." Labour politician Ed Miliband, who was responsible for introducing the Climate Change Act 2008, said: "You have woken us up. We thank you. All the young people who have gone on strike have held up a mirror to our society … you have taught us all a really important lesson. You have stood out from the crowd."[7] In June 2019, a YouGov poll in Britain found that public concern about the environment had soared to record levels in the UK since Thunberg and Extinction Rebellionhad "pierced the bubble of denial".[53]
In August 2019, a doubling in the number of children's books being published which address the climate crisis was reported, with a similar increase in the sales of such books—all aimed at empowering young people to save the planet. Publishers attribute this to the "Greta Thunberg effect".[54]
Inspired by Thunberg, wealthy philanthropists and investors from the United States have donated almost half a million pounds to support Extinction Rebellion and school strike groups to establish the Climate Emergency Fund.[55] Trevor Neilson, one of the philanthropists, said the three founders would be contacting friends among the global mega-rich to donate "a hundred times" more in the weeks and months ahead.[56]
In February 2019, Thunberg shared a stage with the then President of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, where he outlined “In the next financial period from 2021 to 2027, every fourth euro spent within the EU budget will go towards action to mitigate climate change”.[57] Climate issues also played a significant role in European elections in May 2019[58] as Green parties nearly doubled their vote to finish second on 21%,[59] boosting their MEP numbers to a projected 71.[60] Many of the gains came from northern European countries where young people have taken to the streets inspired by Thunberg.[59] The result gives the Greens a chance of becoming 'kingmakers' in the new European parliament.[60]
In June 2019, Swedish Railways (SJ) reported that the number of Swedes taking the train for domestic journeys had risen by 8% from the previous year, reflecting growing public concern about the impact of flying on CO
2emissions that is highlighted by Thunberg's refusal to fly to international conferences. Being embarrassed or ashamed to take a plane because of its environmental impact has been described on social media as 'Flygskam' or "Shame of flying", along with the hashtag #jagstannarpåmarken, which translates as #istayontheground.[61][62]
In August 2019, a doubling in the number of children's books being published which address the climate crisis was reported, with a similar increase in the sales of such books—all aimed at empowering young people to save the planet. Publishers attribute this to the "Greta Thunberg effect".[54]
Inspired by Thunberg, wealthy philanthropists and investors from the United States have donated almost half a million pounds to support Extinction Rebellion and school strike groups to establish the Climate Emergency Fund.[55] Trevor Neilson, one of the philanthropists, said the three founders would be contacting friends among the global mega-rich to donate "a hundred times" more in the weeks and months ahead.[56]
In February 2019, Thunberg shared a stage with the then President of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, where he outlined “In the next financial period from 2021 to 2027, every fourth euro spent within the EU budget will go towards action to mitigate climate change”.[57] Climate issues also played a significant role in European elections in May 2019[58] as Green parties nearly doubled their vote to finish second on 21%,[59] boosting their MEP numbers to a projected 71.[60] Many of the gains came from northern European countries where young people have taken to the streets inspired by Thunberg.[59] The result gives the Greens a chance of becoming 'kingmakers' in the new European parliament.[60]
In June 2019, Swedish Railways (SJ) reported that the number of Swedes taking the train for domestic journeys had risen by 8% from the previous year, reflecting growing public concern about the impact of flying on CO
2emissions that is highlighted by Thunberg's refusal to fly to international conferences. Being embarrassed or ashamed to take a plane because of its environmental impact has been described on social media as 'Flygskam' or "Shame of flying", along with the hashtag #jagstannarpåmarken, which translates as #istayontheground.[61][62]
https://e360.yale.edu/features/air-pollutions-upside-a-brake-on-global-warming
@shamans
The air pollution, which is choking and killing Indians and Chinese, which is made in the process of manufacturing goods that serve a large part of the west's consumer demand, in fact has resulted in a net global cooling effect because it blocks a portion of incoming solar radiation.
You have been shown to be wrong on many levels in this thread, perhaps to the level that you don't know the difference between regular pollution like smog and the mechanism of global warming. Here's another.
@shamans
The air pollution, which is choking and killing Indians and Chinese, which is made in the process of manufacturing goods that serve a large part of the west's consumer demand, in fact has resulted in a net global cooling effect because it blocks a portion of incoming solar radiation.
You have been shown to be wrong on many levels in this thread, perhaps to the level that you don't know the difference between regular pollution like smog and the mechanism of global warming. Here's another.
Re: Greta, if there was ever a bigger instance of trying to shoot the messenger, I’d love to see it.
The fact that shamans is so focused on the "she is becoming a meeeeeme" part is a fairly good indicator of the circles in which he travels. Who cares, basically?
I like how China’s being bashed for emitting more than the US. They emitted 6,5 tonnes of CO2 per capita in 2018, the US? 15 tonnes.
They’ve got almost 4 times as many people, y’know.
They’ve got almost 4 times as many people, y’know.
She's raising awareness in the west where she's from and many children in the future will be influenced to be more active, she'll be one of many around the world and probably already is. There's a huge drive from the younger generation that are concerned about the climate and want to do something, and that's the key, if the industry won't lead then people will have to change their lives forcing the industries and economies to change and adapt
Sadly throughout history around the world there's wars and people suffering, doesn't mean we can't stop the planet from being uninhabitable for the entire human race.
Sadly throughout history around the world there's wars and people suffering, doesn't mean we can't stop the planet from being uninhabitable for the entire human race.
Again, why not look at per capita? Without even looking up whether your numbers here are correct, I can tell you this: If China are emitting twice as much CO2 (it's the letter "O", by the way) as the US in total then they're emitting about half as much CO2 as the US per capita. And where does that leave India? Much better, unsurprisingly.
Also, China are putting up a heck of a lot of solar panels. From having barely anything in 2010 to now having about a sixth of the World's solar power in 2015 (that's in just five years). Which is about what you'd expect with their population (without taking climate into account).
I think this is a key point. China are the worst emitters but at least they're trying to do something about it. They're far from perfect (more coal plants being opened) but unlike the US they are actually developing renewable energy sources, constantly expanding their public transport etc.
The US is going backwards. It's impossible to get public transport built there, they're producing more and more oil every year, they're a disgrace.
I largely agree with you, I'd just like to add a slight bit of nuance to the concept of being the "worst emitter". In @shamans view he wants China to cut their emissions before the US because they're emitting more CO2 in total. What that statement implies is that he wants the average Chinese person to lower their standard of living in spite of them already having a lower standard of living than the average American person. What sort of ethics is that?
And that's really what we're talking about here until everything can be done in a CO2 neutral fashion. That won't happen until we let go of economic growth and we figure out steady-state economics.