Club Ownership | INEOS responsible for the football side

[Tom Van Persie]

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[sugar_kane]

Not massively feeling these guys so far.

They've made some positive moves in getting Ashworth (hopefully), Wilcox and Berrada and setting up a committee to discuss the stadium but is any of it really beyond what any one of us would have done in the same position?

For the more nuanced stuff they've shown a lack of experience and nous, ie. fecking around over the manager decision, and dropping PR clangers everywhere eg. cancelling the end of season party, emailing staff about nonsense like untidy offices, briefs to the press about selling the whole squad at the business end of the season etc.

It's not a massive world apart from the nonsense Woodward & co used to do, except instead where Woody wanted to dazzle the world with ludicrous signings and turn us into Disneyland, Ratcliffe wants to be the big bad boss. Neither carries with it the subtlety and guile needed to manage one of the biggest sporting entities in the world.

I'm still happy we got them and not Qatar, but I hope once the trio above are in place they can just keep their noses out and let the experts run the show.

 

[Abraxas]

Not massively feeling these guys so far.

They've made some positive moves in getting Ashworth (hopefully), Wilcox and Berrada and setting up a committee to discuss the stadium but is any of it really beyond what any one of us would have done in the same position?

For the more nuanced stuff they've shown a lack of experience and nous, ie. fecking around over the manager decision, and dropping PR clangers everywhere eg. cancelling the end of season party, emailing staff about nonsense like untidy offices, briefs to the press about selling the whole squad at the business end of the season etc.

It's not a massive world apart from the nonsense Woodward & co used to do, except instead where Woody wanted to dazzle the world with ludicrous signings and turn us into Disneyland, Ratcliffe wants to be the big bad boss. Neither carries with it the subtlety and guile needed to manage one of the biggest sporting entities in the world.

I'm still happy we got them and not Qatar, but I hope once the trio above are in place they can just keep their noses out and let the experts run the show.

None of those things are clangers if they're even true in many cases. Telling office staff to raise their game, get their arses into work and stop making a fecking mess like a bunch of children seems entirely sensible. A party for what? We haven't performed, feck all worth celebrating.

The media saying the whole squad is for sale is a very easy story for the media to come up with. New owners, poor season, owners in a period of making lots of decisions equals an easy, dramatic story. It's the natural story. Doesn't mean it's true or a reflection of the true strategy.

Haven't fecked around with the manager at all, sacked before the season is even out. A manager will be in situ for preseason. What was the better option? Fecking around would be persisting with the guy.

In place a matter of months and they've swept the senior footballing leadership, including the manager, honestly not sure what else was expected mid season. That's the maximum result and we only get to look at the fruits of decisions next year. Which is the key of course, it's not how many things they do it's whether they're bloody right.

 

[Lee565]

When reading up about Brailsford transformation of England's success in cycling where they had basically had no success whatsoever in their entire history before he arrived and implemented the 1% rule of improvement that created a dynasty of English cycling, if he can have just half the impact at united then that would be good enough to see great changes at this club

 

[Tom Van Persie]

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[horsechoker]

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Interesting use of language: "destroyed"

 

[WouterWeghorst]

Interesting use of language: "destroyed"

Just a bad translation from Dutch, nothing to read into.

 

[WPMUFC]

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He's also claiming in the interview that INEOS told him directly that he would be staying for the overhaul of the club. Let's see how they respond.

 

[noodlehair]

When reading up about Brailsford transformation of England's success in cycling where they had basically had no success whatsoever in their entire history before he arrived and implemented the 1% rule of improvement that created a dynasty of English cycling, if he can have just half the impact at united then that would be good enough to see great changes at this club

It's cycling. I don't think that's a transferable skill to running a football club.

 

[noodlehair]

The only two tangible things they have done so far in relation to the team, is leak to the press that they think so little of our entire squad they would sell any of them, and leak to the press that the manager is getting sacked, the day before a cup final.

Not only are both amazingly stupid and also an appalling way to behave to your staff, but the only possible point of hanging all the players out to dry would have been as a way to back the manager over them.

Other than that it's just been pointless gibberish about a new stadium and whining about having no money, despite being a billionaire who supposedly wanted to "invest" in the club. Like walking into a homeless shelter with a roll of £50 notes then moaning that you can't afford to buy anyone there food.

Keep finding ways to defend it though. I feel like this was the problem from the off. People are so desperate to get rid of the Glazers they've convinced themselves this is the way to do it, despite no evidence of that even being the case. And now INEOS will get a free pass to be as dumb and damaging as they want from a majority of fans until we're about 15th in December and any tiny shred of being able to pretend it's all part of some insane nonsensical plan has evaporated.

 

[AndySmith1990]

The only two tangible things they have done so far in relation to the team, is leak to the press that they think so little of our entire squad they would sell any of them, and leak to the press that the manager is getting sacked, the day before a cup final.

Not only are both amazingly stupid and also an appalling way to behave to your staff, but the only possible point of hanging all the players out to dry would have been as a way to back the manager over them.

Other than that it's just been pointless gibberish about a new stadium and whining about having no money, despite being a billionaire who supposedly wanted to "invest" in the club.

Keep finding ways to defend it though. I feel like this was the problem from the off. People are so desperate to get rid of the Glazers they've convinced themselves this is the way to do it, despite no evidence of that even being the case. And now INEOS will get a free pass to be as dumb and damaging as they want from a majority of fans until we're about 15th in December and any tiny shred of being able to pretend it's all part of some insane nonsensical plan has evaporated.

Definitely no agenda here

 

[Dion]

The only two tangible things they have done so far in relation to the team, is leak to the press that they think so little of our entire squad they would sell any of them, and leak to the press that the manager is getting sacked, the day before a cup final.

Not only are both amazingly stupid and also an appalling way to behave to your staff, but the only possible point of hanging all the players out to dry would have been as a way to back the manager over them.

Other than that it's just been pointless gibberish about a new stadium and whining about having no money, despite being a billionaire who supposedly wanted to "invest" in the club. Like walking into a homeless shelter with a roll of £50 notes then moaning that you can't afford to buy anyone there food.

Keep finding ways to defend it though. I feel like this was the problem from the off. People are so desperate to get rid of the Glazers they've convinced themselves this is the way to do it, despite no evidence of that even being the case. And now INEOS will get a free pass to be as dumb and damaging as they want from a majority of fans until we're about 15th in December and any tiny shred of being able to pretend it's all part of some insane nonsensical plan has evaporated.

You'd have to be genuinely deranged to believe the leak came from anyone at United/INEOS and not one of the many parties involved in the manager recruitment process. The journalist who broke the story is a London based Chelsea reporter, none of the people who United leak to are even able to confirm the story.

 

[Berbasbullet]

You'd have to be genuinely deranged to believe the leak came from anyone at United/INEOS and not one of the many parties involved in the manager recruitment process. The journalist who broke the story is a London based Chelsea reporter, none of the people who United leak to are even able to confirm the story.

This!

Imagine if the decision had been made to sack ETH and we did it with no contingency/preparations made? Imagine how dumb that’d make INEOS look?

It’s savage, but that’s football.

 

[El Zoido]

You'd have to be genuinely deranged to believe the leak came from anyone at United/INEOS and not one of the many parties involved in the manager recruitment process. The journalist who broke the story is a London based Chelsea reporter, none of the people who United leak to are even able to confirm the story.

Never let the truth get in the way of pushing an agenda. Forum rules.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

You'd have to be genuinely deranged to believe the leak came from anyone at United/INEOS and not one of the many parties involved in the manager recruitment process. The journalist who broke the story is a London based Chelsea reporter, none of the people who United leak to are even able to confirm the story.

Yeah these reports don't read like they are coming from United's end. No idea why people think the club are leaking all this. Doesn't benefit us in any way.

 

[Abizzz]

The only fault I find with ETH's dismissal is that it could/should have taken place months ago. And perhaps it should have been officially announced after the last league game to get on top of the news.

 

[red woppit]

The only two tangible things they have done so far in relation to the team, is leak to the press that they think so little of our entire squad they would sell any of them, and leak to the press that the manager is getting sacked, the day before a cup final.

Not only are both amazingly stupid and also an appalling way to behave to your staff, but the only possible point of hanging all the players out to dry would have been as a way to back the manager over them.

Other than that it's just been pointless gibberish about a new stadium and whining about having no money, despite being a billionaire who supposedly wanted to "invest" in the club. Like walking into a homeless shelter with a roll of £50 notes then moaning that you can't afford to buy anyone there food.

Keep finding ways to defend it though. I feel like this was the problem from the off. People are so desperate to get rid of the Glazers they've convinced themselves this is the way to do it, despite no evidence of that even being the case. And now INEOS will get a free pass to be as dumb and damaging as they want from a majority of fans until we're about 15th in December and any tiny shred of being able to pretend it's all part of some insane nonsensical plan has evaporated.

Is it proven that the leaks all came from within the club/INEOS?
I take it that you weren't 'in' for INEOS , and Ratcliffe to take over.

 

[red woppit]

The only fault I find with ETH's dismissal is that it could/should have taken place months ago. And perhaps it should have been officially announced after the last league game to get on top of the news.

Is it definite then, that Ten Hag is going?

 

[Abizzz]

Is it definite then, that Ten Hag is going?

With the guardian reporting it is 98% to me. Everyone has to judge for themselves. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if the guardian knew more about what is going on than the man himself (although I do also assume he's been told too).

 

[decorativeed]

Just had an update on the impact on staff at OT.

Basically all were told that WHF ends across the board on June 1st. No consideration made for personal or contractual circumstances, you need to be in the office.

Trouble is, as has been said before, those offices don't exist any more because the club converted some to suites for use on match day.

To counter this, they have rented desks and chairs, and these will need to be brought in after a match day and taken back out into storage before a match day ad infinitum, because they have sold tickets to those suites. This comes at a cost of thousands of pounds every time. All because email traffic at Ineos went down a bit on Fridays.

Also, the staff 'perks' that almost go some way to negating the terrible salaries for non-football staff (ie, the people who Jim Radcliffe's ownership shouldn't actually have any effect on) are being slashed. Stuff like bonuses (that have always been linked to the performance of the club on the pitch anyway), staff canteen and staff socials are all either going to be reduced or removed.

Basically Radcliffe has come in like a bull in a china shop and decided that the people to blame for the poor recruitment of players, managers and coaches are the people at the club who earn £25k working in the catering/ticketing/stadium tour departments, and they shall be punished for it.

 

[WouterWeghorst]

It's cycling. I don't think that's a transferable skill to running a football club.

To add to this, a LOT of %'s in cycling were not professionalized at the time which SKY took the team over. Stuff like staying at altitude to get better lung functions and litteraly how much you eat during races was pretty poorly done by tonnes of teams. It was very common in those days for a superior rider to lose a race because he 'forgot' to eat/drink during (parts of) a race. These are just some of the professionalization gaps they had in cycling as a sport as well.

Football, on the other hand, is very big business that seems to have already overcome many of these 'unprofessional' problems. There are of course still things that could be done better, but I doubt if those things are as big as, for instance, not eating enough whilst burning 5.000 calories.

 

[WouterWeghorst]

Just had an update on the impact on staff at OT.

Basically all were told that WHF ends across the board on June 1st. No consideration made for personal or contractual circumstances, you need to be in the office.

Trouble is, as has been said before, those offices don't exist any more because the club converted some to suites for use on match day.

To counter this, they have rented desks and chairs, and these will need to be brought in after a match day and taken back out into storage before a match day ad infinitum, because they have sold tickets to those suites. This comes at a cost of thousands of pounds every time. All because email traffic at Ineos went down a bit on Fridays.

Also, the staff 'perks' that almost go some way to negating the terrible salaries for non-football staff (ie, the people who Jim Radcliffe's ownership shouldn't actually have any effect on) are being slashed. Stuff like bonuses (that have always been linked to the performance of the club on the pitch anyway), staff canteen and staff socials are all either going to be reduced or removed.

Basically Radcliffe has come in like a bull in a china shop and decided that the people to blame for the poor recruitment of players, managers and coaches are the people at the club who earn £25k working in the catering/ticketing/stadium tour departments, and they shall be punished for it.

You don't become the richest person in the UK by being a nice guy. Anyone who expected him not to be an a-hole, does not know how billionaires operate.

The stuff about renting desks is really below this club if true btw.

 

[red woppit]

With the guardian reporting it is 98% to me. Everyone has to judge for themselves. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if the guardian knew more about what is going on than the man himself (although I do also assume he's been told too).

Fair enough.

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

Come out fighting in that press conference. Hopefully that transfers to the players today. That’s what it’s all about really. Far too much focus on off field matters.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Just listening to Andy Mitten on Talksport and he says these stories are absolutely not coming from United's end.

 

[Danny]

Just had an update on the impact on staff at OT.

Basically all were told that WHF ends across the board on June 1st. No consideration made for personal or contractual circumstances, you need to be in the office.

Trouble is, as has been said before, those offices don't exist any more because the club converted some to suites for use on match day.

To counter this, they have rented desks and chairs, and these will need to be brought in after a match day and taken back out into storage before a match day ad infinitum, because they have sold tickets to those suites. This comes at a cost of thousands of pounds every time. All because email traffic at Ineos went down a bit on Fridays.

Also, the staff 'perks' that almost go some way to negating the terrible salaries for non-football staff (ie, the people who Jim Radcliffe's ownership shouldn't actually have any effect on) are being slashed. Stuff like bonuses (that have always been linked to the performance of the club on the pitch anyway), staff canteen and staff socials are all either going to be reduced or removed.

Basically Radcliffe has come in like a bull in a china shop and decided that the people to blame for the poor recruitment of players, managers and coaches are the people at the club who earn £25k working in the catering/ticketing/stadium tour departments, and they shall be punished for it.

We can't have it both ways though. Many have commented that the club needs to be transformed top to bottom so of course Radcliffe will want and need to make changes as part of the process.

Who are the staff that are working from home out of interest? Stadium tour and catering can't be surely? There is an argument that getting staff in offices can help with improving the culture so maybe that's what he's driving, and working standards.

Any business that gets new investment or people coming in like to make changes, I'm sure the staff were aware of that too. Hopefully there can be some negotiation to enable the process to be smoothed somewhat.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Just had an update on the impact on staff at OT.

Basically all were told that WHF ends across the board on June 1st. No consideration made for personal or contractual circumstances, you need to be in the office.

Trouble is, as has been said before, those offices don't exist any more because the club converted some to suites for use on match day.

To counter this, they have rented desks and chairs, and these will need to be brought in after a match day and taken back out into storage before a match day ad infinitum, because they have sold tickets to those suites. This comes at a cost of thousands of pounds every time. All because email traffic at Ineos went down a bit on Fridays.

Also, the staff 'perks' that almost go some way to negating the terrible salaries for non-football staff (ie, the people who Jim Radcliffe's ownership shouldn't actually have any effect on) are being slashed. Stuff like bonuses (that have always been linked to the performance of the club on the pitch anyway), staff canteen and staff socials are all either going to be reduced or removed.

Basically Radcliffe has come in like a bull in a china shop and decided that the people to blame for the poor recruitment of players, managers and coaches are the people at the club who earn £25k working in the catering/ticketing/stadium tour departments, and they shall be punished for it.

Surprised still are WFH.

I went back PT and with certain restrictions in late 2021. Been working most days since late 2022 and we’re a big company.

We also haven’t had perks (other than a kitchen area to make drinks, free tea and coffee) for ages. And definitely no staff socials… anything we do, we pay for.

Feels more like club has let things go (surprise) and now being pulled to same expectations of most companies. If they have to start back from 1/6, don’t see why it’d be temp desks and chairs…. there’s no football on so are the suites being used?

 

[Varun1]

He's also claiming in the interview that INEOS told him directly that he would be staying for the overhaul of the club. Let's see how they respond.

Just listening to Andy Mitten on Talksport and he says these stories are absolutely not coming from United's end.

If they aren't planning to sack EtH, wouldn't the club put a statement out to calm things down before a cup final?

 

[Pickle85]

If it's just a story city planted with their mates in the media...

Tinfoil hat, obviously. But if they don't end up sacking him it would make you wonder...

 

[decorativeed]

We can't have it both ways though. Many have commented that the club needs to be transformed top to bottom so of course Radcliffe will want and need to make changes as part of the process.

Who are the staff that are working from home out of interest? Stadium tour and catering can't be surely? There is an argument that getting staff in offices can help with improving the culture so maybe that's what he's driving, and working standards.

Any business that gets new investment or people coming in like to make changes, I'm sure the staff were aware of that too. Hopefully there can be some negotiation to enable the process to be smoothed somewhat.

We can have things both ways. In that both ways are thus: Radcliffe helps reorganise the footballing side of the club which ultimately produces better results on the pitch, and; he doesn't have a negative impact on the rest of the day-to-day club staff in areas which are outside of that remit.

There is a terrible management culture at the club as a whole. That needs sorting, but someone needs to understand the issues and spend time figuring out who is responsible - maybe start with the management who have had the most complaints to HR, or who are in charge of departments that poison people with raw chicken, etc, and work from there. Don't instantly crack the whip on the backs of the lowest paid members of staff who have to deal with all this nonsense on top of years of Glazer penny-pinching, and who have no influence over the performance on the pitch.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

If they aren't planning to sack EtH, wouldn't the club put a statement out to calm things down before a cup final?

He's obviously getting sacked.

 

[Pexbo]

Just had an update on the impact on staff at OT.

Basically all were told that WHF ends across the board on June 1st. No consideration made for personal or contractual circumstances, you need to be in the office.

Trouble is, as has been said before, those offices don't exist any more because the club converted some to suites for use on match day.

To counter this, they have rented desks and chairs, and these will need to be brought in after a match day and taken back out into storage before a match day ad infinitum, because they have sold tickets to those suites. This comes at a cost of thousands of pounds every time. All because email traffic at Ineos went down a bit on Fridays.

Also, the staff 'perks' that almost go some way to negating the terrible salaries for non-football staff (ie, the people who Jim Radcliffe's ownership shouldn't actually have any effect on) are being slashed. Stuff like bonuses (that have always been linked to the performance of the club on the pitch anyway), staff canteen and staff socials are all either going to be reduced or removed.

Basically Radcliffe has come in like a bull in a china shop and decided that the people to blame for the poor recruitment of players, managers and coaches are the people at the club who earn £25k working in the catering/ticketing/stadium tour departments, and they shall be punished for it.

Look you might not like it but it’s going to create a really positive atmosphere in the club and get everyone pulling in the same direction.

 

[WouterWeghorst]

If they aren't planning to sack EtH, wouldn't the club put a statement out to calm things down before a cup final?

It would maybe set a precedent for journalists to get 'clout'. The club could react 5 times per week on reports. It still comes mainly from 1 journalist (this guy from the Guardian) and has not been confirmed by anyone else. I would let the media be the media and focus on doing the actual work. Next big game, some journalist can claim anything in order to get a response from the club.

 

[RedRover]

It's cycling. I don't think that's a transferable skill to running a football club.

Raising standards and holding people accountable are universal across all sports and in business.

 

[decorativeed]

Look you might not like it but it’s going to create a really positive atmosphere in the club and get everyone pulling in the same direction.

I'd laugh along at the sarcasm a lot more if this thread wasn't filled with people who genuinely believe that.

Edit: case in point just two posts below. People glad to see average local employees shat on in the hope that it somehow makes it more likely they'll get to watch their team lift a trophy on the telly.

 

[RedRover]

He's also claiming in the interview that INEOS told him directly that he would be staying for the overhaul of the club. Let's see how they respond.

Wouldn't surprise me if that had been the intention originally but performances at the end of the season caused a re-think.

 

[diarm]

Just had an update on the impact on staff at OT.

Basically all were told that WHF ends across the board on June 1st. No consideration made for personal or contractual circumstances, you need to be in the office.

Trouble is, as has been said before, those offices don't exist any more because the club converted some to suites for use on match day.

To counter this, they have rented desks and chairs, and these will need to be brought in after a match day and taken back out into storage before a match day ad infinitum, because they have sold tickets to those suites. This comes at a cost of thousands of pounds every time. All because email traffic at Ineos went down a bit on Fridays.

Also, the staff 'perks' that almost go some way to negating the terrible salaries for non-football staff (ie, the people who Jim Radcliffe's ownership shouldn't actually have any effect on) are being slashed. Stuff like bonuses (that have always been linked to the performance of the club on the pitch anyway), staff canteen and staff socials are all either going to be reduced or removed.

Basically Radcliffe has come in like a bull in a china shop and decided that the people to blame for the poor recruitment of players, managers and coaches are the people at the club who earn £25k working in the catering/ticketing/stadium tour departments, and they shall be punished for it.

The people working in catering, ticketing and stadium tours are working in temporary suites at Old Trafford? I very much doubt it.

For one thing, those are departments in which the vast majority of workers won’t have been working from home anyway. It’s difficult to give a stadium tour, or cook a burger remotely.

The whole club is bloated and inefficient. It isn’t the fault of the unnecessary people who were hired, but Ineos had to start somewhere and what we’re hearing is same whinging you hear whenever a badly performing company overhaul takes place.

People will leave, and many of them will be upset. Those who stay will see the benefits down the line, when the club is operating like a cohesive business again.

 

[decorativeed]

The people working in catering, ticketing and stadium tours are working in temporary suites at Old Trafford? I very much doubt it.

For one thing, those are departments in which the vast majority of workers won’t have been working from home anyway. It’s difficult to give a stadium tour, or cook a burger remotely.

The whole club is bloated and inefficient. It isn’t the fault of the unnecessary people who were hired, but Ineos had to start somewhere and what we’re hearing is same whinging you hear whenever a badly performing company overhaul takes place.

People will leave, and many of them will be upset. Those who stay will see the benefits down the line, when the club is operating like a cohesive business again.

I didn't say they were. Hence those bits being in different paragraphs.

 

[Plant0x84]

The whole club is bloated and inefficient. It isn’t the fault of the unnecessary people who were hired, but Ineos had to start somewhere and what we’re hearing is same whinging you hear whenever a badly performing company overhaul takes place.

People will leave, and many of them will be upset. Those who stay will see the benefits down the line, when the club is operating like a cohesive business again.

And of course because it’s United everything is magnified and picked apart by the media to sell rags and get clicks.

 

[diarm]

I didn't say they were. Hence those bits being in different paragraphs.

Your last paragraph says “the people at the club who earn £25k working in the catering/ticketing/stadium tour departments, and they shall be punished for it”.

What Ineos are doing isn’t targeted at those people at all. It’s targeted at the needless bloat that crept in under the watch of Woodward and his banker mates. The offices in London as well as Manchester and the inefficiencies in non-football crucial areas of the club.

It’s easy to say they should just sack all the managers (they have sacked a lot of them) and leave all the workers alone, but that’s too simple and infantile an argument. Changing a broken culture in real life isn’t that simple.

Why not give them the benefit of the doubt, and see what the place is like to work at in 3 years time. Throwing the toys out of the pram now, when they’ve only been in a wet week and have inherited a shitshow doesn’t make any sense at all