Club Sale | It’s done!

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Marcelinho87

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Didn't Mourinho complain about the spending and lack of backing?

The Glazer spending has been haphazard and always with their bigger picture of keeping the scan going for as long as possible in mind
The Glazers only ever funded when CL money was in jeopardy, under a normal Glazer season this coming window we would be signing the likes of Dan James.
 

HarryP

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The Glazers only ever funded when CL money was in jeopardy, under a normal Glazer season this coming window we would be signing the likes of Dan James.
Not true. It's hard to believe the things people come out with sometimes when even a cursory moment of reflection would immediately reveal them to be wrong.

CL money wasn't seen to be in jeopardy in 2021 yet the Glazers spent serious cash on Sancho, Varane and Ronaldo that Summer.

It's stuff like this that lets the Glazers off the hook for their actual failures because they can use these obviously wrong criticisms as evidence that most fans are absolutely clueless and not worth listening to.
 

RedDevilUnited369

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Some brief thoughts on the lay of the land regarding the takeover and the transfer market:
(a) The share price at NYSE is $19 for a Man Utd share. If Sheik Jassim match Ineos' bid it should be $35-40 and if Ineos win the auction it should be around $12-15 (as before the takeover talk started, since Ineos won't buy the NYSE shares). Anyone with insight into the takeover talks and a lofty conscience could hence easily 3-4x an investment in a matter of weeks (if you know Ineos is winning, you can short the share). It is of course just guessing -- but I don't think anything is "done" yet. On avg., it's said that about 40-50 percent of Takeovers leaks before they are announced which also is my experience. At this stage with multiple bidders and so many people involved, it is just unlikely that we won't start to get leaks as soon as the odds really starts tilting in any direction. I don't think anything is done right now.

(b) If nothing is done -- what is going on? Someone is probably waiting for something, there have been enough time for everyone to make up their minds. An outside chance -- that always can happen -- is that one or two groups join forces. But odds for that is of course not high. So what are people waiting on? Could Glazer wait to announce that they won't sell to either Ineos or Jassim until after the season to avoid protests? Of course, but the thing is, the club is for sale for a reason. The fact that we finish top 4 is huge, but I can't see that it is enough. By all accounts, Ineos had the leading bid after the final deadline, and after that, Sheik Jassim's group's relations with the Raine Group fell apart and they went to the Glazers directly. First of all, for a financial advisor like the Raine Group to have a poor relationship with Qatar, is like a European football club being banned from all UEFA tournaments. They won't be able to get any assignment from a seller that has any kind of hopes for Qatar to get involved. So what can have caused Raine to not comply with Jassim's wishes in some regard? It's a straight purchase of shares. I can only see that it is about proof of funds. I.e., in an auction it is naturally a disaster if you go with a bidder, and it then turns out that they can't deliver and you have to go back to the other party and ask if it is still interested. I am just guessing, but my bet is that Jassim has told the Glazers to hold off going with Ineos until after it is decided if we get CL next season, at which point Jassim can take his business plan to the higher-ups of the Royal family in Qatar and/or other partners. I.e. that Jassim has been given a last chance to come up with the cash needed to match Ineos' bid.

(c) So things are leaning towards Ineos then? What do I know, but as I see things, I would -- not -- claim that. I think it's leaning towards a sale, but Ineos has by all accounts put forward a very lucrative offer to the Glazers that is significantly higher than Jassim's bid (for the Glazers, any other shareholder won't get a penny). Despite this -- it is not settled. That says a lot too.

(d) I think that it is quite obvious that Jassim got a fairly strict budget. I don't worry that they wouldn't spend on the club if they got it -- but the budget he got for his business plan is obviously limited. But he could of course get more backing in Qatar -- but as we heard from his dad, in the CNBC (or was it Bloomberg?) interview, its not a given that he will get it. We can discuss if the club is worth 3bn or 5bn or 6bn, but if we look at what sport franchises go for, I think that the Glazers getting just around 5bn for 100% of the club (i.e. of which they only take 69% or 3.45bn) -- is not a high offer. From Day 1, it has been known that it is any buyer's choice whether to just buy the 69% from the Glazers and get full control or the entire 100% (which is only necessary for any buyer that wants full freedom to for example develop land around OT). Any buyer willing to ant up 3.45bn can outbid this bid from Sheik Jassim. Compared to what other clubs you get for that sum, it is not that high. If the world economy wouldn't be tanking, I wonder if 3.45bn to the Glazers even get you to the second round of bidding.

(e) I am undecided about which buyer I want as long as the Glazers looses control of the club which we would get with either bidder according to the reports (nothing else makes any sense either). But I have to say that I think the talk about Jassim having "super wealth" resulting in that this club would operate in a completely different world with him compared to anyone else -- can be questioned. CFC have outspent everyone with Abramovich and Boehly. The last 4y, PSG have on avg spent 95m per season owned by Qatar and Man City have on avg. spent 157m per season owned by Abu Dabi. How about Real Madrid? The last three 3y, they spent an avg of 33m per season. The season before that, they spent 355m, but its still only 120m per year on avg. over 4 years. Without support from the owners, we can't build a stadium and we can spend about 100-150m per summer. If an owner supports us with say 600m over 4 years, we can outspend everyone else by a wide margin and make up for the head start MCFC got. By cheating, MCFC has de facto been able to -- match -- our investments in the squad, not outspend us. The problem if the Glazers stay is of course the stadium. But financing a stadium is something completely else than paying the Glazers transfer debt or creating huge debts to finance transfers. But to prevent it impacting our transfer spending -- that building must also be supported. But Boehly is building a stadium and financing transfers for CFC, why couldn't Ineos do the same for MUFC? We don't know if they will -- but I think odds are high that anyone interested in buying this club would do that. Our value is in us being a top 2-3 club in the world, its a different environment compared to when Malcom Glazer bought us as an extremely undervalued asset almost 20 years ago. The big difference with Jassim vs Ineos is probably for the city of Manchester. Being able to make infrastructure investments is what Jassim's bid is all about. Build hotels, use the land around OT, new train stations, malls etc etc etc. Are there any advantages with Ineos over Jassim? Look, for City and the Redbull group -- their multi club ownership structure has been massively lucrative. The same with CFCs youth academy. It sounds like Ineos want to create something like that. But at the same time, it of course has to be done well. Perhaps there are some soft values that would benefit us with Ineos, i.e. we wouldn't be state owned, can market ourselves as being more genuine. At the same time, Ineos' green washing aspect is genuine and its for example complete nonsense to not recognize the major impact a wide use of fracking in Europe would have on our planet.

(f) As reported by La Pais, in an article with information from a member in Jassim's transaction team, our executive management is pitching the idea that an owner can come in and spend 500m on the transfer market this summer, by using a new credit line with Bank of America that would survive a Change of Control. This is of course marketing -- but if we sell players to raise capital, like Lindelof and AWB, in addition to guys like Henderson, Maguire and McTominay, it massively impact how much we can spend under the FFP rules this summer. The FFP measures earnings, and the cost of signing a £100m player on a 5 year deal at 200k a week is £30m a year. If we sell Lindelof for 25m, it enables us to buy a player for 100m. If we sell Henderson for 20m, it enables us to buy another player for 100m. Just because Arnold is pitching this as "doable" to Ineos and Jassim, it of course doesn't mean that they have to do it. But I think odds are great that we will see a lot of spending this summer, I would bet at 300m rather than 100m. Possibly even up towards 400m. It must be done, it makes sense. But we need to sell players to enable it. This to me also explains why we are so heavily linked to a right footed CB despite Lindelof's excellent play lately, why we have been linked to a RB despite Dalot/AWB, and so forth. We need 2 strikers, 2 CMs, we are heavily linked to 1 CB and 1 RB, and we at least need a strong back-up keeper, if not a starter. I mean, that is 400-500m right there.

I break down the financial aspects here:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/a-l...ir-play-rules-on-man-utd.474688/post-30591054
Your the Swedish Rumble guy from Twitter?
 

glasgow 21

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The Glazers only ever funded when CL money was in jeopardy, under a normal Glazer season this coming window we would be signing the likes of Dan James.
I think there has been enough Glazer bashing. This shitshow wasn't done on their own. They did release money up for transfers over the years but unfortunately as with lots of businesses the trusted advisors were useless. This is by no means excluding the Glazers but they shouldn't be allowed to take all the blame. Should SAF been allowed to anoint Moyes ?. Woodward whilst satisfying the sponsorship side for the Glazers was unable to make or shake with his team in the transfer dealings and seemed on the face of it "how many shirts will he sell" purchases. We were a cash cow for years and other teams and agents rubbed their hands when they saw us coming. There is still shit to sort out in the backroom offices as our transfer policy is still unconnected and more a dart game with the back pages of the daily mail on the wall. If we have a team of some 30 thirty scouts exactly what is their job? There has been endless discussion on SJR or SJ which when you get down to it who cares as along as the Glazers haven't there finger not the red button and that the new owners have the common sense to realise that finance was not the only reasons to our downfall over the last ten years. We are needing a team of mover and shakers as was in place before Pep ever arrived at City. Pep was placed in well oiled( pardon the pun) machine that had proved successful way before he arrived. ETH took over a shit show and should be 100% commended for his ability to navigate in a storm. We can only hope the systems in the background are changing and couple that with an actual sale and not another " The glazers have announced there is not value in the market and fudge a none sale" and we can breath a sigh of relief.
 
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glasgow 21

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Too pissed to rhyme. Stand by the sentiment. Shouldn't be soiling our name with this garbage.
Put a advert in the Manchester evening news for an alternative then " Wanted Boss with 6B of spare cash, Middle east based owners need not apply " and throwing spit at folk who are for a thousand reasons are not attending is bollocks.
 

whitbyviking

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Not defending the Glazers, but they have spent a lot of money, just a shame they and their appointees were so incompetent that the majority was piddled up the wall.
 

Herman Toothrot

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Put a advert in the Manchester evening news for an alternative then " Wanted Boss with 6B of spare cash, Middle east based owners need not apply " and throwing spit at folk who are for a thousand reasons are not attending is bollocks.
Nation States need not apply, from anywhere.

You can stuff your not-so-subtle accusations of racism up your fecking bollocks.
 

El Zoido

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Not defending the Glazers, but they have spent a lot of money, just a shame they and their appointees were so incompetent that the majority was piddled up the wall.
They’ve spent feck all, it’s all club revenue and they’ve been pocketing a lot of it themselves.
 

LawCharltonBest

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Not defending the Glazers, but they have spent a lot of money, just a shame they and their appointees were so incompetent that the majority was piddled up the wall.
Massively incorrect. Sort of thing pundits like Jamie Redknapp and Souness say on skysports without doing any research on what they're talking about.

They haven't spent a penny, they've allowed United to spend a fraction of what they make. If the Glazers weren't there United would have been able to spend much more
 

Von Mistelroum

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Starting to smell a lot like Glazers staying on. I'm guessing that they are waiting until after the season. They'll sanction a few signings and announce that they are staying when they think the fans will be too excited about getting Declan Rice or what have you.

Final bids have been in for a while and nothing has happened, so this seems to indicate a Glazer stay.
 

RedDevilRoshi

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Starting to smell a lot like Glazers staying on. I'm guessing that they are waiting until after the season. They'll sanction a few signings and announce that they are staying when they think the fans will be too excited about getting Declan Rice or what have you.

Final bids have been in for a while and nothing has happened, so this seems to indicate a Glazer stay.
There’s got to be big investment coming in from somewhere as no way will they sanction x3 big money transfers (Rice, Mount & Kane) all in the one window when it was reported a few weeks/months ago that we were pretty much skint going into this summers transfer window.
 

Nou_Camp99

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They’ve spent feck all, it’s all club revenue and they’ve been pocketing a lot of it themselves.
They have allowed the club to spend vast sums on transfers is what he meant.

Not giving our managers money to spend isn't something we can accuse them of doing. They have all been backed.

Everything else is the issue. The debt, not employing the best in class in senior leadership roles etc.
 

Nou_Camp99

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Starting to smell a lot like Glazers staying on. I'm guessing that they are waiting until after the season. They'll sanction a few signings and announce that they are staying when they think the fans will be too excited about getting Declan Rice or what have you.

Final bids have been in for a while and nothing has happened, so this seems to indicate a Glazer stay.
Probably because it's not a sale of a bag of crisps. It's an asset worth 5bn plus. These things take time.

Don't see them staying tbh. Not after going this far with the process. The fans will riot like never before if they don't relinquish control now.

I think it's over for them we just got to wait for everything to be sorted officially. Our CL place not being secure until last night could have been one of the things holding up the deal too.
 

VP89

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The Guardian is certainly not reliable. I've friends who work there


Appreciate the in-depth post.

Reading between the lines I get the impression/feeling that it boils down to this:
If Ineos wins the bid, the Glazers get more money initially, get to stay on, but Jim won't go mental with the spending regarding transfers/stadium etc

If Jassim wins the bid, the Glazers don't get as much money, get kicked out the club, but will be like a kid in a sweetshop buying players/new stadium thereafter.

I could wrong, haven't had my morning cuppa and Weetabix yet, but that's what it sounds like.
Uh, no
 

El Zoido

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They have allowed the club to spend vast sums on transfers is what he meant.

Not giving our managers money to spend isn't something we can accuse them of doing. They have all been backed.

Everything else is the issue. The debt, not employing the best in class in senior leadership roles etc.
I know what he meant, but the Glazers deserve no credit. As if we should be grateful they didn’t pocket the whole bloody lot. Oh thank you kind Glazers for allowing the club to spend a fraction of the revenue generated. And we’ve had plenty of barren transfer windows where the funds weren’t available. They are parasites.
 

cheekybackheel

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Starting to smell a lot like Glazers staying on. I'm guessing that they are waiting until after the season. They'll sanction a few signings and announce that they are staying when they think the fans will be too excited about getting Declan Rice or what have you.

Final bids have been in for a while and nothing has happened, so this seems to indicate a Glazer stay.
Not surprised if they did stay on, just reading the posts from the miserable feckers on here constantly complaining would see to that.

Qatar ain't good enough because of their human rights...blah blah blah
Ineos aren't good enough because of their green credentials...blah blah blah

Feck me.

If I was a Glazer reading this thread I'd come to the conclusion that most United supporters are a bunch of miserable b*stards that are never happy, so what's the point in selling??? They already hate us so we may as well stay put and just carry on taking out dividends for another 10 years.

Be careful what you lot wish for.
 

MarkoDolohov

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Bank Holiday Monday coming as well so maybe it'll be a slow news weekend, not that it will stop me from keeping eyes on the Caf.

Very strange how its just gone radio silent from when the Qataris did the whole 11hour shenanigans on May 16th. 10 days on and we are yet to hear a peep. If I was a betting man, despite my hearing wanting Sheikh Jassim, my head is saying it'll be Jim Glazer as his offer appeases the most people. The other Glazers can ride off into the sunset with about 700m each, Avram & Joel get to stay for a bit whilst the Brexit Rat buys 51% of the club for now.
 

TrebleChamp99

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I think it’s fanciful we’ll get news today , the very earliest the Monday after the FA cup final, the very earliest.
 

VP89

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There’s got to be big investment coming in from somewhere as no way will they sanction x3 big money transfers (Rice, Mount & Kane) all in the one window when it was reported a few weeks/months ago that we were pretty much skint going into this summers transfer window.
Can be very plausible if its minority investment
 

Herman Toothrot

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Not surprised if they did stay on, just reading the posts from the miserable feckers on here constantly complaining would see to that.

Qatar ain't good enough because of their human rights...blah blah blah
Ineos aren't good enough because of their green credentials...blah blah blah

Feck me.

If I was a Glazer reading this thread I'd come to the conclusion that most United supporters are a bunch of miserable b*stards that are never happy, so what's the point in selling??? They already hate us so we may as well stay put and just carry on taking out dividends for another 10 years.

Be careful what you lot wish for.
Yeah, I can imagine the scenes.

"Yo, Joel, have you been reading that Man United message board?"

"Avram, nobody has used message boards since the mid 2000s. Anyway, what are they saying?"

"Some people are upset about us selling to a nation state and others are upset we might sell to someone who isn't a nation state"

"Maybe we shouldn't sell then?"

"And miss out on $6bn?"

"But the message board"

"Good point."
 

Loon

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Not defending the Glazers, but they have spent a lot of money, just a shame they and their appointees were so incompetent that the majority was piddled up the wall.

Massively incorrect. Sort of thing pundits like Jamie Redknapp and Souness say on skysports without doing any research on what they're talking about.

They haven't spent a penny, they've allowed United to spend a fraction of what they make. If the Glazers weren't there United would have been able to spend much more
Yup. I don't know why so many people get this wrong.
 

Brophs

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Given the way the process has gone, it does seem like a very likely issue is that there’s a genuine divide among the family as to what to do. And perhaps not even along the Avram & Jewel v the rest lines that we’d been led to believe.
 

Rood

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Some brief thoughts on the lay of the land regarding the takeover and the transfer market:
(a) The share price at NYSE is $19 for a Man Utd share. If Sheik Jassim match Ineos' bid it should be $35-40 and if Ineos win the auction it should be around $12-15 (as before the takeover talk started, since Ineos won't buy the NYSE shares). Anyone with insight into the takeover talks and a lofty conscience could hence easily 3-4x an investment in a matter of weeks (if you know Ineos is winning, you can short the share). It is of course just guessing -- but I don't think anything is "done" yet. On avg., it's said that about 40-50 percent of Takeovers leaks before they are announced which also is my experience. At this stage with multiple bidders and so many people involved, it is just unlikely that we won't start to get leaks as soon as the odds really starts tilting in any direction. I don't think anything is done right now.
Don't understand why you think the share price will be double/triple if Jassim wins as opposed to INEOS?

It won't be as the price will be mostly set by whatever price the Glazers agree to sell at - there could then be some difference since Jassim commits to buy all the shares but it won't be anywhere near that

The rest of your theories are possible but complete speculation and much of it based on info from questionable sources (El Pais etc)
 

Nou_Camp99

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I know what he meant, but the Glazers deserve no credit. As if we should be grateful they didn’t pocket the whole bloody lot. Oh thank you kind Glazers for allowing the club to spend a fraction of the revenue generated. And we’ve had plenty of barren transfer windows where the funds weren’t available. They are parasites.
We've spent as much as City have. Lack of transfer funds is not a thing we can throw at them. We've spent more than enough to compete.

What we've done is wasted it and they have to take the blame there because ultimately they decide who are the people who are spending it and they have the ability to replace somebody like Ed Woodward and they didn't
 

Water Melon

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Yeah, I can imagine the scenes.

"Yo, Joel, have you been reading that Man United message board?"

"Avram, nobody has used message boards since the mid 2000s. Anyway, what are they saying?"

"Some people are upset about us selling to a nation state and others are upset we might sell to someone who isn't a nation state"

"Maybe we shouldn't sell then?"

"And miss out on $6bn?"

"But the message board"

"Good point."
Thank you Sir for your humour. You made my day.
 

Von Mistelroum

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Probably because it's not a sale of a bag of crisps. It's an asset worth 5bn plus. These things take time.

Don't see them staying tbh. Not after going this far with the process. The fans will riot like never before if they don't relinquish control now.

I think it's over for them we just got to wait for everything to be sorted officially. Our CL place not being secure until last night could have been one of the things holding up the deal too.
They definitely won't though. There'll be a few yellow and green scarves extra and that will be that. The Glazers know this.
 
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