Club Sale | It’s done!

[mewnew11]

I have not read the complete article as I haven't subscribed to the athletic. But just the snippets make my blood boil.

Even the Greenwood case was awfully managed. Plans to bring him back then a small media group cry and he is loaned to Getafe.

It's like the media was driving our operations or management

 

[Tom Van Persie]

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[Yakuza_devils]

Can't believe that there are posters here defended Murtough staunchly and telling everyone how great he is as a DOF for Man Utd.

 

[MonkeysMagic]

I had worked out a long time ago that the Glazers were just stupid businessmen but quite how dumb they are is truly breathtaking!

Even if you let them off for having zero interest in football, quite how they let a prized asset depreciate in value (for all those protesting at the £6billion value, Utd could've been worth double if we had sporting success like City have had!) When they had everything going for them is a remarkably dumb achievement and I'm sure there will be case studies written in business management courses and how not to run a business.

 

[cyberman]

https://theathletic.com/5151315/2023/12/22/manchester-united-fotball-news-transfers

Pretty infuriating read. Hopefully a big change is coming, because it's needed. Arnold and Murtough were acting like headless chickens, to no one's surprise. The worst part of the article for me is that we ditched the plans for both Kane and Rice because of Casemiro.

Half of these points seems to be stretched since news at the time revealed something different?
I know the ffp situation last summer was nonsense since the Athletic made a big stance in only having 100m to spend. They can’t put down being wrong as anarchy at the top. Plus Casemiro was lined up long before Brentford away

 

[edgecutter]

That article is a hard read. What a cluster feck in the background of the club.

 

[edgecutter]

Anyway I can read this article as I don’t sub?

Hit the link and turn off your Internet at the same time

 

[Yakuza_devils]

People are still wondering why a big club on par with RM, Barca and BM were being outplayed in midfield by Galatasaray, Everton and the likes.

Our football structure and people at the helm are complete clown. We are a joke in world football. It's like Liverpool fans running our club. Sabotaging us left, right, center.

Can't wait for SJR to come in and change all that.

 

[Champ]

Again you have no idea what you're talking about and your Cruyff quote has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

So what Cruyff is saying is that when you have the ball you make the pitch as big as possible within the positional play principles. And if you don't have the ball you make it as small as possible by dropping deeper and not pressing high.

wow,

No, you compact the spaces in between the lines, which actually could mean pressing high and holding a high line of defense, or could mean dropping deep, this way you make the pitch feel small, either forcing the oppo out wide or back to their GK etc.

It has everything to do with what you're talking about, you mentioned 'rest defense', which is basically about structure and having players, usually/predominantly midfielders (but not always) sitting behind the ball, waiting for the transitions. Compacting the spaces, blocking the space between the lines..

Anyhow, I'm out now as a)this is derailing the thread, and b) this discussion has gone absolutely nowhere.

 

[Berbaclass]

@Berbaclass did you get anything on discord about a Ratcliff announcement at Xmas before any of the public news said it?

I don’t know mate I very rarely use it.

 

[Adisa]

https://theathletic.com/5151315/2023/12/22/manchester-united-fotball-news-transfers

Pretty infuriating read. Hopefully a big change is coming, because it's needed. Arnold and Murtough were acting like headless chickens, to no one's surprise. The worst part of the article for me is that we ditched the plans for both Kane and Rice because of Casemiro.

The picture this paints is so grim, I’m struggling to believe it’s not a sensationalist piece.

 

[Freak]

Big day today.

 

[DON’T PANIC ™]

https://theathletic.com/5151315/2023/12/22/manchester-united-fotball-news-transfers

Pretty infuriating read. Hopefully a big change is coming, because it's needed. Arnold and Murtough were acting like headless chickens, to no one's surprise. The worst part of the article for me is that we ditched the plans for both Kane and Rice because of Casemiro.

Is there any way to read this without agreeing to £1/month?

 

[Rojofiam]

Is there any way to read this without agreeing to £1/month?

https://archive.ph/MU95B

 

[Adnan]

wow,

No, you compact the spaces in between the lines, which actually could mean pressing high and holding a high line of defense, or could mean dropping deep, this way you make the pitch feel small, either forcing the oppo out wide or back to their GK etc.

It has everything to do with what you're talking about, you mentioned 'rest defense', which is basically about structure and having players, usually/predominantly midfielders (but not always) sitting behind the ball, waiting for the transitions. Compacting the spaces, blocking the space between the lines..

Anyhow, I'm out now as a)this is derailing the thread, and b) this discussion has gone absolutely nowhere.

Your Google searches aren't going to help you here. Cruyff's football didn't rely on rest defense (German word) but rather his teams controlled the game positionally both with and without the ball. His teams had the ability to throttle the opponent in possesion, and controlling the defensive transition wasn't a big deal at the time compared to what's happening in the present day EPL.

Compacting the spaces between the lines is different to applying the press high up the pitch to force turnovers. Getting Romario and Stoichkov to press would've been a difficult sell. So allowing them freedom, whilst compacting the spaces between the midfield and defensive lines was the correct strategy with the players Cruyff had at his disposal. Which was fine for the period Cruyff was coaching.

 

[DON’T PANIC ™]

https://archive.ph/MU95B

Ta

 

[Spoony]

I wonder if Frenkie de is playing well for Barca. Clearly ETH needs a decent set up behind him and not the idiots he's got above him.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

With regard to BBC’s piece about signing off before Christmas Day. Doesn’t that just leave today anyway? Isn’t the stock market shut tomorrow and Sunday?

 

[tenpoless]

The Athletic article is quite incredible. You have the Bellingham stuff, the Antony stuff, the Højlund stuff, so many bits on Murtough, but the Amad thing is unreal.

Ole supported his signing as an academy prospect, only for Murtough to fly off to Bergamo to agree a fee for him for £37m with the expectation he would soon be in the first team. feck me.

… and people wonder how Atalanta had our pants back down for the Højlund fee too.

Which is why I dont blame Ten Hag 100% for transfers. Most of the transfers look bad because we overpaid by a huge margin for the manager's 2nd or 3rd options. The effect is players that are decent as an option that we can still improve on are suddenly expected to perform like a world class player with no possible replacement (we have invested a lot so lets stick with it).

We have built a reputation of an idiot with money and whoever is in charge for transfers next will find themselves hard situation to be in when it comes into negotiation. It needs to be fixed gradually and it cant be instant.

Whoever the manager is, if this is how the club deal with transfers then no money will ever be enough. Stuck in a cycle. Paid a lot > players dont perform > keep them anyway because we have paid a lot > no more money available to go after actual top players anymore > wait till next window > repeat.

The club keeps overpaying for a bunch of 6-7/10 players to the point where it only have a few 8/10 players, with no money to spend on top top players to further improve the squad. The top level remains the same. Let out the big gun when its the right players... thats how Sir Alex did it (and even those still looked 'cheap'), not for prospects with huge question mark or aging throwaway players with inflated salaries.

And if you look at the club in the past 5 years, we didnt exactly improve that much regardless of spending. When we finished higher than previous seasons its usually because the other clubs that were supossed to be there had a shit season.

 

[miliebrowndivorceattorney]

Which is why I dont blame Ten Hag 100% for transfers. Most of the transfers look bad because we overpaid by a huge margin. The effect is players that are decent as an option that we can still improve on are suddenly expected to perform like a world class player with no possible replacement (we have invested a lot so lets stick with it).

We have built a reputation of an idiot with money and whoever is in charge for transfers next will find themselves hard situation to be in when it comes into negotiation. It needs to be fixed gradually and it cant be instant.

Whoever the manager is, if this is how the club deal with transfers then no money will ever be enough. Stuck in a cycle. Paid a lot > players dont perform > keep them anyway because we have paid a lot > no more money available to go after actual top players anymore > wait till next window > repeat.

The club keeps overpaying for a bunch of 6-7/10 players to the point where it only have a few 8/10 players, with no money to spend on top top players. Let out the big gun when its the right players... thats how Sir Alex did it (and even those still looked 'cheap')

Ive been saying for months that the crazy transfers shoudl not be put on Ten Hags name. He wanted Kane, they didnt bother and messed up that chance for United and Ten Hag. I can understand why his name is being put to new players, but it should be a rmeinder to us all that in modern days, the manager doesnt have a big say on who is and who isnt coming. If LvGs comments werent enough example. He, too, got toasted by this bunch of idiots.

 

[M Bison]

Many of the fans believe its all EtH's fault, not sure whats scarier, that stance or the details in that article.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Can't believe that there are posters here defended Murtough staunchly and telling everyone how great he is as a DOF for Man Utd.

Some people are convinced that managers have been our problem. For me , managers should only be the reason why we don’t win a league or CL, not a reason why we can’t consistently even qualify for the CL or get out of the groups.

This confirms what many of us have been thinking and saying for years. EVERY United manager is undermined and hamstrung. buy how United has been run.

In many ways, the big spending has been required to compensate for all the negligence and lack of a plan that has NOTHING to do with managers.

 

[Pes6Monster]

Even the Greenwood case was awfully managed. Plans to bring him back then a small media group cry and he is loaned to Getafe.

It's like the media was driving our operations or management

For the best.

It was far from a 'small media group cry', rather indignation from hard evidence of sexual and physical violence. Our own supporters had plenty to say.

You're right to allude to mismanagement but wrong to imply Greenwood is some sort of 'victim' of 'trial by media'.

He brought it all on himself and he ought to be obviated completely sooner rather than later.

https://archive.ph/MU95B

Thank you.

Many of the fans believe its all EtH's fault, not sure whats scarier, that stance or the details in that article.

Some fans think Fergie's horse is behind the current malaise. It all depends on where you get your information from.

 

[Frosty]

The Athletic article is quite incredible. You have the Bellingham stuff, the Antony stuff, the Højlund stuff, so many bits on Murtough, but the Amad thing is unreal.

Ole supported his signing as an academy prospect, only for Murtough to fly off to Bergamo to agree a fee for him for £37m with the expectation he would soon be in the first team. feck me.

… and people wonder how Atalanta had our pants back down for the Højlund fee too.

It's amazing isn't it? We are so badly run. This is why just changing a manager does nothing.

 

[Frosty]

I have not read the complete article as I haven't subscribed to the athletic. But just the snippets make my blood boil.

Even the Greenwood case was awfully managed. Plans to bring him back then a small media group cry and he is loaned to Getafe.

It's like the media was driving our operations or management

Honestly it is so good it is worth paying the £2 subscription just to read.

 

[strandty]

With regard to BBC’s piece about signing off before Christmas Day. Doesn’t that just leave today anyway? Isn’t the stock market shut tomorrow and Sunday?

Doesn't matter about the stock market. As long as it's announced during closed trading or the NYSE is given 10 minutes notice before the release of 'material news' when open it can be done whenever.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Many of the fans believe its all EtH's fault, not sure whats scarier, that stance or the details in that article.

“well Murtagh didn’t coach United to a defeat at home to Bournmouth” is the depth of understanding some of them can fathom.

They will be back with that simple minded sh*te when we lose our next game.

 

[Berbaclass]

That article kills Murtough.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Big day today.

 

[tenpoless]

That article kills Murtough.

Is it? I thought the writer did him some favour by writing about how likeable he is by people at the club and his determination to remain under new ownership, taking a lesser role. And how he is David Moyes' mate

 

[Berbaclass]

Is it? I thought the writer did him some favour by writing about how he is likeable by people at the club and his determination to remain, taking a lesser role.

It shifts a lot of blame onto him being shit

 

[SalfordRed18]

Good lord almighty.

Believe nothing! It’s all fake PR!! (Unless it’s bad news, then we believe that all day long)

What?

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Many of the fans believe its all EtH's fault, not sure whats scarier, that stance or the details in that article.

I don't know a lot of fans who actually believe it's "all ETH's fault". Pretty much everyone acknowledges our structure is fecked due to clowns like Woodward (previously) and Murtough, and that there's a ceiling to how much we can achieve with them around. Those extenuating circumstances don't give the manager a free pass though.

 

[UnitedSofa]

That article kills Murtough.

My boy not as good as i thought he was! I’ve been betrayed!

 

[TrebleChamp99]

He said when discussing Ben Jacobs' Tweet "we can also confirm they're not writing today off" and "I think it will get announced this afternoon". He genuinely knows feck all but loves playing the game to make it sound like he does.

Big fan of marks since the early days but lately been very poor from him.

All the focus on useless transfer rumours that will never happen and in the grand scheme mean nothing over the ownership which is a genuine shift for the club.

Also not impressed how every single article is considered “spin” this latest one being very well researched and gives genuine insight and he spent most of the morning show saying it’s all spin to be positive ahead of a INEOS takeover.

Considering the size of the audience I would have expected some insight into how its full control and staggered takeover but nothing.

 

[Berbaclass]

A strategic review inside a strategic review. Brilliant.

 

[klayton88]

Is it? I thought the writer did him some favour by writing about how likeable he is by people at the club and his determination to remain under new ownership, taking a lesser role. And how he is David Moyes' mate

Yeah the later part read as if Murtough was the source of the article and he was blowing smoke up his own arse.

 

[Frosty]

I don't know a lot of fans who actually believe it's "all ETH's fault". Pretty much everyone acknowledges our structure is fecked due to clowns like Woodward (previously) and Murtough, and that there's a ceiling to how much we can achieve with them around. Those extenuating circumstances don't give the manager a free pass though.

No they don't at all, but I am still of the view that sacking the manager will mean nothing until we start to sort out the backroom operations. They doesn't mean we have to wait 2 or 3 years until the football side is up and running with some success. It does mean that I am willing to wait until we actually have the start of a coherent structure and logical transfer plans before replacing the coach. If that means next Summer, so be it.

 

[Matt851]

“well Murtagh didn’t coach United to a defeat at home to Bournmouth” is the depth of understanding some of them can fathom.

They will be back with that simple minded sh*te when we lose our next game.

You know it is possible to think that the general lack of a competent management structure is the biggest issue at the club, and also think that Ten Hag isn't doing his job particularly well either.

Regardless of the fee you have to question why he thought Antony was good enough to start in the Premier league, or why he thought mount playing as a an advanced 8 alongside bruno would work or even why he keeps leaving just one player in the centre of midfield every game this season.

 

[Champ]

Your Google searches aren't going to help you here. Cruyff's football didn't rely on rest defense (German word) but rather his teams controlled the game positionally both with and without the ball. His teams had the ability to throttle the opponent in possesion, and controlling the defensive transition wasn't a big deal at the time compared to what's happening in the present day EPL.

Compacting the spaces between the lines is different to applying the press high up the pitch to force turnovers. Getting Romario and Stoichkov to press would've been a difficult sell. So allowing them freedom, whilst compacting the spaces between the midfield and defensive lines was the correct strategy with the players Cruyff had at his disposal. Which was fine for the period Cruyff was coaching.

Whatever pal, you do you and carry on with your patronizing manner, which quite frankly is embarrassing.

Will just leave you with a few more explanations of 'Rest Defense' and yes, these were found on Google, probably from websites that you love to regurgitate also.

Rest defence is a tactical term we use to describe the attacking team's structure
Rest defence refers to the defensive structure that “rests” (remains static)
Rest-defence' is another translation of a German word – 'Restverteidigung'. This refers to how a team's structure in possession allows them to immediately defend upon losing the ball.

Note the term 'Structure' in all definitions.
But of course, I'm always wrong,