Damn this album really delivered. Just as good as Part I. Good to hear Em and Nas.
Just came here to say the same. Unreal.
Nas album is fecking amazing after one listen. Got to give Hit-Boy his credits also. Beats, production, vocals, lyrics, features.. everything sounds amazing
I'm gonna stream it over the weekend, can't wait to hear the song with Lauryn!
Jada said he was top 5 DOA way back in 2008ish - i'd have him top 10 though.
Also criminal that some of his songs are not in that 'Best Hip Hop beats' thread. Knock Yourself Out & All About The Benjaminz come to mind straight away
The Nas album is great on first listen, he's talking cash shit, fully arrogant & full of bravado, it's about time his rhymes reflect his status in hip-hop, i'm only 2/3 of the way through but Rare & Store Run are amazing, of course Lauryn's verse is top tier too - only song I don't like is the one with EMPD & Eminem.
Also criminal that some of his songs are not in that 'Best Hip Hop beats' thread. Knock Yourself Out & All About The Benjaminz come to mind straight away
The Nas album is great on first listen, he's talking cash shit, fully arrogant & full of bravado, it's about time his rhymes reflect his status in hip-hop, i'm only 2/3 of the way through but Rare & Store Run are amazing, of course Lauryn's verse is top tier too - only song I don't like is the one with EMPD & Eminem.
I keep coming back to the Isiah Rashad album, it's truly one of few albums that you can just play front to back and enjoy it fully these days.
I've been listening to it while I work, while I clean the house, while I drive, at the gym - just a great project.
Score & Claymore are my personal favourites on there, Score especially. SZA understood the assignment on that one!
IDK - USEE4YOURSELF is really enjoyable too, only listened a couple of times but it sounds great and I think it's the type of album that goes under the radar and really grows on you.
I've been listening to it while I work, while I clean the house, while I drive, at the gym - just a great project.
Score & Claymore are my personal favourites on there, Score especially. SZA understood the assignment on that one!
IDK - USEE4YOURSELF is really enjoyable too, only listened a couple of times but it sounds great and I think it's the type of album that goes under the radar and really grows on you.
Loving Nas’ album, I thought it would be underwhelming but glad I was wrong.
Jada snapped on the Verzuz battle, was great to watch.
Jada snapped on the Verzuz battle, was great to watch.
Yeah Claymore is so good. I'm also loving RIP Young.
The standout song for me.
Nas is one of the greatest, I also feel he gets underrated at times, the majority of his albums are great but not always rated that way.
He's great at story telling raps.
Gotta agree, the Nas joint is very good on first listen.
I’m very biased towards Nas, so admittedly my perspective is probably skewed, but I agree, albums like Lost Tapes, God’s Son & Untitled are especially excellent.
He has found a roll with hit boy they seem to have an amazing chemistry.
I don't think there is any doubt now he is the greatest, to constantly be at the top of his game album after album year after year. There is no one else at his level. Eminem perhaps close but Nas just does it better and realer
This was an interesting song. The folklore behind the Tupac and Nas ‘confrontation’ has so many different sides and stories to it. Also shouting out the Outlawz was a nice touch.
Whatever happened when they met, the outcome seemed to be positive and it’s a huge shame that they couldn’t work on some projects together.
The Eminem feature is so weird. It just doesn’t fit a Nas album. I always wanted the collaboration but now I’ve heard it.. it just seems so off. Maybe if Eminem was trying to cram 1600 words in, it might have been better.
Liking the new Nas Album. Wasn't huge on King's Disease and struggled to understand the acclaim it got. This is a real step up for me.
Have to shout out Isaiah Rashad's new one too, cannot stop playing it right now.
Have to shout out Isaiah Rashad's new one too, cannot stop playing it right now.
I sort of reckon Nas is the best rapper. He's not my favourite, he doesn't have the best albums, or the most sales or the most success, but if you measure a rapper by his use of words and the style with which he delivers those words, then there is no one better than him. Forget any top 5 placation.
You're not gonna get an argument from me on that, Nas is undoubtedly my favourite rapper.
Nas, Jay-z & Eminem are the clear candidates for greatest ever imo - more often when people talk about the Greatest or the Best they actually refer to their Favourite.
If i'm being objective Jay-z & Eminem have a better argument for greatest rapper of all time than Nas, that's despite me being the furthest thing from an Eminem fan, and not being a huge Jay-Z fan either. Nas is certainly top 5 DOA though, nobody can dispute that.
Neither have a better argument than Nas.
This is the same for pretty much every 'greatest' debate. When you get to the very top there is very little to separate and comes down to personal preference.
For me I've never really liked Jay Z, wouldn't make my top 5.
Unititled is one of my favourites and a good example of a underrated album.
If you're being objective I struggle to agree with this.
Yes & no, I think there are cases where despite your personal preference you can't not put someone in because of your individual views towards them.
The only thing both have over him is sales, not critical acclaim not consistency or quality of albums.
It depends how crazy that someone is, when someone clearly doesn't belong there (maybe someone like Busta Rhymes) then you can argue that. But there's a select group of rappers that all have a claim to the greatest and there is very little to separate them and that's where personal preference comes in.
I don't think Jay has a great claim in all honesty. He started popular because he was very commercial.
He then had perhaps two three albums were he could claim to be one of the best but his last three or four have been very average and he has not offered anything good in years
When you say critical acclaim do you mean awards won or general consensus & reviews? I mean it doesn't really matter which because out of the 3 Nas is the least critically acclaimed, but I'm trying to understand what you meant.
Quality of albums becomes subjective quite quickly, and i'm not of the opinion that albums alone certify someone's ability (look at Andre 3000) but it's very hard to argue against a catalogue that includes Reasonable Doubt, Blueprint, The Black Album - which are objectively classic albums. Likewise for Eminem, he has 3 albums that are objective classics too. And not classic in the watered down version where everyone rates an album they really like to be a classic.
Also I think that sales gets overlooked because people have this thing where they like to hate things & people that are popular, because they equate popularity with losing integrity or ability in order to assimilate to the masses - that's a general statement not aimed at you - I disagree with this logic, but you see it time & time again particularly in hip-hop, this idea that the best rappers are the ones that didn't 'sell out'. It's so dated particularly in an era where billions of people have access to music at a click of a button, there's gonna be rappers who are both popular & incredibly skilled. Jay-Z & Eminem fit into this category.
Also, with hip-hop's popularity a large part of that can be directly traced back to the impact of Jay-Z & Eminem.
He certainly wasn't popular in the beginning, he almost retired after his second album!
And he has definitely 3, arguably 4 classic albums. 4:44 I wouldn't class as average, nor Watch The Throne which is part of his last 3/4 releases. Also his 'The Carters' album has some fantastic songs where his ability can't be denied, likewise with Jay Electronica's album, and other random feature verses he's been on.
There seems to be an underrating of Jay-z on this forum, usually there's an underrating of Nas
I'm not even a big enough fan of his to do him justice here, but I think some of you aren't giving him his fair do's!
Hip Hop has never been solely about ‘sales’ there were rappers who outsold Rakim who were never as heralded.When you say critical acclaim do you mean awards won or general consensus & reviews? I mean it doesn't really matter which because out of the 3 Nas is the least critically acclaimed, but I'm trying to understand what you meant.
Quality of albums becomes subjective quite quickly, and i'm not of the opinion that albums alone certify someone's ability (look at Andre 3000) but it's very hard to argue against a catalogue that includes Reasonable Doubt, Blueprint, The Black Album - which are objectively classic albums. Likewise for Eminem, he has 3 albums that are objective classics too. And not classic in the watered down version where everyone rates an album they really like to be a classic.
Also I think that sales gets overlooked because people have this thing where they like to hate things & people that are popular, because they equate popularity with losing integrity or ability in order to assimilate to the masses - that's a general statement not aimed at you - I disagree with this logic, but you see it time & time again particularly in hip-hop, this idea that the best rappers are the ones that didn't 'sell out'. It's so dated particularly in an era where billions of people have access to music at a click of a button, there's gonna be rappers who are both popular & incredibly skilled. Jay-Z & Eminem fit into this category.
Also, with hip-hop's popularity a large part of that can be directly traced back to the impact of Jay-Z & Eminem.
He certainly wasn't popular in the beginning, he almost retired after his second album!
And he has definitely 3, arguably 4 classic albums. 4:44 I wouldn't class as average, nor Watch The Throne which is part of his last 3/4 releases. Also his 'The Carters' album has some fantastic songs where his ability can't be denied, likewise with Jay Electronica's album, and other random feature verses he's been on.
There seems to be an underrating of Jay-z on this forum, usually there's an underrating of Nas
I'm not even a big enough fan of his to do him justice here, but I think some of you aren't giving him his fair do's!
Also Hip Hops popularity is marginally linked to Jay-Z and even less so Eminem, before Jay Z dropped an album there was already Tupac and Biggie who’s flame outshone his, there was already LL Cool J Melle Mel BDK Beastie Boys Run Dmc and a host of golden age hop icons who were far more instrumental in the progression and popularity hip hop garnered.
In fact even during his heyday of sales Jay Z was never the biggest selling rapper, Eminem is but I feel like a lot of his fans don’t even listen to rap like that.
Take it away from sales and it’s a hard argument to argue Eminem has more classic verses, more classic albums a better discography and more acclaim amongst his peers than Nas, Eminem literally came into the game copying Bas and Az flow, that was in 97, 24 years later and only one of them is putting out album of the year contenders, it’s really not a contest when you consider Nas run from 94, he came in the game before all these guys with the greatest rap album of all time and still puts out great albums great features till this day.
I never said it was solely about sales, I said denigrating sales is an incredibly outdated perspective. This isn't the 70s in Bronx basements anymore.
I also didn't say Jay-z & Eminem are the reason for hip-hop's popularity. However you can't deny that Eminem gave it crossover appeal, particularly during the radio ban years - which is why a good portion of Eminem fans aren't actually hip-hop fans , like you said.
You're talking to someone who doesn't actually listen to Eminem, however I think you're doing a big disservice to him in your last paragraph, but i'm not the one to tell you you're wrong. I don't really have much of an issue with what you said, because Nas is my favourite rapper - but considering this debate is meant to be about objectivity, I do think you're being very biased towards Nas, and it comes across like you don't rate Eminem that much.
It’s weird seeing @villain defending Em and Jay
Top 5 casual- Jay Z, Eminem, 2pac, Biggie, Lil wayne
Top 5 hardcore- Krs one, Rakim, Jadakiss/Nas, Black Thought, Kool g rap
Top 5 hardcore- Krs one, Rakim, Jadakiss/Nas, Black Thought, Kool g rap
I just think you have to put Nas at the top because the music he is putting it now is on a par with his early stuff and when that includes Illmatic the greatest hip hop album ever there cannot be much argument.
Em is close because while he went through a dodgy psych his recent albums are a very high quality.
Jay I just don't think he is doing anything even close to reasonable doubt in terms of pure hip hop quality.
It's not bad but it is a high bar that was set
Em is close because while he went through a dodgy psych his recent albums are a very high quality.
Jay I just don't think he is doing anything even close to reasonable doubt in terms of pure hip hop quality.
It's not bad but it is a high bar that was set
Andre 3k has a claim too.
JVD Vs the leg kicking cnut from kickboxer.
Had a long drive today so managed to listen to KD2, top album. Death Row East is such a good song.
Eminems verse on EPMD was class. I liked Nobody and Rare best. Great album.
I rate Eminem as a top 20 at best top 10 rapper I simply don’t think he has the consistency of catalogue and music that the other GOAT contenders have for example Nas Jay Z all have 13 + studio albums spanning near classics over 3 decades as well as arguably even more iconic verses on other rappers tracks.
Eminem for me started to decline after Eminem Show and although he is still lyrically one of the best he never put together albums on the level of Life is Good 4.44, Kings Disease 2.
If we’re taking just skills into consideration Eminem is again up there, but so is Pharoahe Monch Mos Def GZA and etc.
Can't stand either Eminem or Jay Z music. Em hates his mum and Hov has money, that's about it.
Who would be in your top 20?