Pretty much this.
We'll never know how good Ronaldo could have been - perhaps the GOAT instead of one of the GOATs
Comparing the three Ronaldos
- Thread starter Luke1995
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
We'll never know how good Ronaldo could have been - perhaps the GOAT instead of one of the GOATs
Damn now that’s one of the better obscure football facts I’ve come across here.His name is literally Ronaldo de Assis Moreira.
Luis Ronaldo was called Ronaldinho when he first broke through to the Brazil's NT because there was an older Ronaldo on the team.
Just want to point out that Ronaldinho got a standing ovation from Madrid fans at the Bernabeu.
And because he was the reason I started watching football, I gotta go with my man there.
And because he was the reason I started watching football, I gotta go with my man there.
Football Italia practically carried Ronaldo's whole time in Italy - he was a prime feature and draw for people to watch the comparatively drab (but infinitely superior) Serie A. Inter, A.C. Milan and Juventus' games were routinely televised, not highlights.
The culmination being the live robbery of Inter in the title decider vs Juventus.
Wrong! The ref has seen it again and again and he swears that if anything, it was Ronaldo who fouled Iuliano! I mean, obviously getting body checked by a juventus defender in those years was a foul by the attacker, everybody knows this!
The scenes! It was incredulous.
He's considered one of the most clinical strikers ever to have played the game. His titles and goal numbers are way up there and his assists were magical. There was a reason they called him both "The genius inside the box" and "King of dribbling"
My memory is hazy but that's the show I was thinking of, on Channel 4?
Still, a little over a year until his injuries started and he was never the same again.
Ronaldo》》》Ronaldinho》》Cristiano.
Cristiano had much better career, won everything, he is a goal maschine, one of the best ever but he is just a super player. Other two are football gods.
Cristiano had much better career, won everything, he is a goal maschine, one of the best ever but he is just a super player. Other two are football gods.
Highlights program was Saturday mornings (IIRC) La Gazzetta Della Sport and then there were games on the Sunday, sometimes multiple. All the big games were on there, and if none of the big teams were playing, they'd show other league games (names) of interest, which is how the likes of Batistuta, Signori etc came into the consciousness of the average fan who otherwise would only see them at internationals.
Channel 4 wrangled themselves perhaps the greatest deal there has been as they could show what they wanted (was available on the day) without restriction and given the sheer wealth of talent dotted throughout the league, the quality was always there, even if the entertainment, in such a serious league, was lacking.
Couldn't have said it better.
Was that the case everywhere or just the UK? Also, on the other hand, over exposure can often lead to an increase in hype and brand as well, as is the case with the modern players.
I would rate them as different and hard to compare.
In terms of pure goalscoring instinct Cristiano is up there with Pelé, Puskas, Muller and Romario - but I'd say probably even better because he's proven his consistency for so long in the top-tier and across several leagues. Also he's the perfect athlete and professional - adaptable and always striving to improve himself - with a phsyique I believe most Olympians would envy. His muscles resembles that of Bruce Lee - both visually impressive and practical at the same time. If I was to buy someone to strengthen my team - he'd top every list of desirable candidates even if I extended that list to cover all of footballing history.
Ronaldo is best compared to the likes of Maradona and Messi - with the main thing seperating him from the former being longevity. He got dealt a really bad hand it that regard - his career being hampered pretty much midway through by injuries and also a serious chronic condition causing him to gain weight and suffer severe lethargy. While he was in his prime though he was untouchable and his mere presence on the field was enough to cause agony in any opposition. There was no gameplan you could deploy that would contain him - none whatsoever. His accelleration, his pace and his skill on the ball even while sprinting at full speed - all combined with his intelligence, awareness and drive... He was a class above the rest when operating at full capacity.
There's this clip where two defenders close the gap in front of him and just leaps straight through them - ball in feet. I couldn't believe it when I saw it way back when - and I've rewatched that recording over and over again and I still can't understand how it happened. Fecking magic - as if he just teleports through their bodies. He was the first player post-Maradona able to send shivers down my spine - and even now twenty years later thinking back on him i still feel it.
Ronaldinho? An artist - great intelligence both on and off the ball - but as a professional I never rated him highly. Loved watching him play he added an extra layer of excitement to every game when entering the field and his skills would leave anyone amused - but I wouldn't have splashed the cash on him he was a joy to behold but not one to carry the day. Didn't see much of him though in fairness - outside European competitions and international fixtures that is - so I may not be the best to judge his overall influence.
In terms of pure goalscoring instinct Cristiano is up there with Pelé, Puskas, Muller and Romario - but I'd say probably even better because he's proven his consistency for so long in the top-tier and across several leagues. Also he's the perfect athlete and professional - adaptable and always striving to improve himself - with a phsyique I believe most Olympians would envy. His muscles resembles that of Bruce Lee - both visually impressive and practical at the same time. If I was to buy someone to strengthen my team - he'd top every list of desirable candidates even if I extended that list to cover all of footballing history.
Ronaldo is best compared to the likes of Maradona and Messi - with the main thing seperating him from the former being longevity. He got dealt a really bad hand it that regard - his career being hampered pretty much midway through by injuries and also a serious chronic condition causing him to gain weight and suffer severe lethargy. While he was in his prime though he was untouchable and his mere presence on the field was enough to cause agony in any opposition. There was no gameplan you could deploy that would contain him - none whatsoever. His accelleration, his pace and his skill on the ball even while sprinting at full speed - all combined with his intelligence, awareness and drive... He was a class above the rest when operating at full capacity.
There's this clip where two defenders close the gap in front of him and just leaps straight through them - ball in feet. I couldn't believe it when I saw it way back when - and I've rewatched that recording over and over again and I still can't understand how it happened. Fecking magic - as if he just teleports through their bodies. He was the first player post-Maradona able to send shivers down my spine - and even now twenty years later thinking back on him i still feel it.
Ronaldinho? An artist - great intelligence both on and off the ball - but as a professional I never rated him highly. Loved watching him play he added an extra layer of excitement to every game when entering the field and his skills would leave anyone amused - but I wouldn't have splashed the cash on him he was a joy to behold but not one to carry the day. Didn't see much of him though in fairness - outside European competitions and international fixtures that is - so I may not be the best to judge his overall influence.
Another fun fact about Luis Ronaldo that really tells the story of how ridiculously good he was at that age. In 1996/97, Inter's average attendance was 50 708. In 1997/98, after they've signed him, their average grew to 67 597 (the least attendance in the league that season was 57 352, 7k more than the last one's season average).
It's interesting that despite all those attributes going against Cristiano, most people would still pick him over the other 2
C.Ronaldo is a freak of nature and the best footballer to ever walk the planet.
Ronaldinho was most likely the most talented in terms of skill and passing.
Ronaldo had everything you ever wanted in a striker, speed, dribbling and precision finishing.
C.Ronaldo is the definition of practice beats talent. Even though most would dream to have his talent.
His work ethic though? Unrivalled.
Ronaldinho was most likely the most talented in terms of skill and passing.
Ronaldo had everything you ever wanted in a striker, speed, dribbling and precision finishing.
C.Ronaldo is the definition of practice beats talent. Even though most would dream to have his talent.
His work ethic though? Unrivalled.
C. Ronaldo is goat status.
The other two got cute YouTube highlight reels.
The other two got cute YouTube highlight reels.
Nah Ronaldo is not the best player to walk the planet. Not even the best of his own generation.
Most people on a Utd forum, not most people outside of that. I'd say most football fans would pick Ronaldo as top.
Oh, you're wrong, he's the greatest to ever play football. But this isn't the forum for that.
Please get back in line...
Pure ability and talent it's Ronaldo 9, hands down.
Ronaldinho the better trickster of the three and CR7 the most dangerous.
Ronaldinho the better trickster of the three and CR7 the most dangerous.
Not just that - Ronaldo averaged 10-15 games a year for Brazil from 1997 to 1999 and the vast majority of those games were shown in full on UK TV. Even without Sky Sports and before his move to Inter, you would get snippets from Ronaldo most weeks in Holland, Spain or with Brazil through Eurosport, Transworld Sport and other highlights packages. He was certainly one of the earliest players to get a decent level of TV exposure to justify the hype many folk read about.
I really dont get why Ronaldinho is in this thread?
It's clearly Ronaldinho. I'm not sure there's ever been a player with as much natural ability as Ronaldinho. He'd be the GOAT if he had C. Ronaldo's work ethic.
I think this says it all. Absolutely amazing talent...
He's definitely not. Maybe you're looking for a line somewhere around the Madrid forum?
I think its the question of success vs pure talent
Would you dream to have the pure talent of L.Ronaldo/Ronaldinho, or success of C.Ronaldo, if you are a football player?
Most players would choose success over talent to be honest, the whole point of talent is to achieve success, no?
But as football fans, we tend to admire players with more pure talent, as we care more about "pleasing to the eyes" factors rather than success/achievement of a player.
Basically,
Talent + Hardwork + Luck = Success
Pure talent
L.Ronaldo 10/10 - L.Ronaldo at his peak before his injury is something else. No one knows how to stop him, probably the most talented 18-22 years old ever.
Ronaldinho 9.5/10 - Ronaldinho at Barca during his peak is a joy to watch, probably the most entertaining footballer ever.
C.Ronaldo 9/10 - C.Ronaldo at his early Man Utd years is very talented but not efficient, during his late Man Utd/early Real years he combined talent and end products perfectly, showing the level of skills and goals only Messi could match at that time. At his later Real years, he is displaying less talent but becoming more efficient and clutch.
Hardwork/Dedication
C.Ronaldo 10/10 - probably the most determined/hardworking/dedicated footballer ever, dominate the world football for over a decade, still contender for Ballon D'or at age 34, playing nearly 1000 games, still at the very top of world football. At 34, he is still fitter than most other players at 25.
L.Ronaldo 7.5/10 - unlucky with injuries at early peak of his career. But still managed to recover and won a WC with Brazil, and enjoyed a few good years at Real. But then with ongoing weight and fitness issue when he is approaching 29-30, he started to decline fast and went back to Italy instead, not doing much there for 2 years, and getting injured again, he is done in Europe and went back to Brazil at 33. Only played 518 games throughout his career.
Ronaldinho 6/10 - his peak at Barca is truly beautiful to watch, probably the most entertaining player ever, truly a free style happy footballer everyone loves to watch. But somehow, suddenly, when he is still around 27-28, suppose entering his peak years, he becomes shite. And then he went to Italy for 3 years, didn't impress, went back to Brazil at 31.
Luck
C.Ronaldo 8.5/10 - lucky because he play for strong Man Utd/Real/Juventus side, especially Real, winning 4 CL there. Also lucky because he won the Euro with Portugal, even though he was injured in final match. Unlucky because he has to face Messi Barca (GOAT+Team of decade) throughout his time in Spain with them dominating La Liga. Unlucky also because he plays for a weaker national side with no chance of winning WC.
L.Ronaldo 7.5/10 - lucky because he won 2 WC. 94 WC won it without playing thanks to Romario/Bebeto, 02 won it with very strong Brazil golden generation. He is also playing for strong Real side too, but somehow underachieved. Unlucky because of long term injuries.
Ronaldinho 9/10 - lucky because he play for Brazil golden generation and won the WC. Also play for strong Barca side winning La Liga and CL. He underachieved because he is lazy rather than unlucky.
Success level
C.Ronaldo 10/10 - 5 Ballon D'ors, 5 CL, 1 Euro, overall won 29+ trophies, scored 700+ goals.
L.Ronaldo 8.5/10 - 2 Ballon D'ors, 2 WC, 2 Copa, overall won 18 trophies, scored 352 goals.
Ronaldinho 8/10 - 1 Ballon D'ors, 1 WC, 1 CL, 1 Copa, overall won 16 trophies, scored 280 goals.
Would you dream to have the pure talent of L.Ronaldo/Ronaldinho, or success of C.Ronaldo, if you are a football player?
Most players would choose success over talent to be honest, the whole point of talent is to achieve success, no?
But as football fans, we tend to admire players with more pure talent, as we care more about "pleasing to the eyes" factors rather than success/achievement of a player.
Basically,
Talent + Hardwork + Luck = Success
Pure talent
L.Ronaldo 10/10 - L.Ronaldo at his peak before his injury is something else. No one knows how to stop him, probably the most talented 18-22 years old ever.
Ronaldinho 9.5/10 - Ronaldinho at Barca during his peak is a joy to watch, probably the most entertaining footballer ever.
C.Ronaldo 9/10 - C.Ronaldo at his early Man Utd years is very talented but not efficient, during his late Man Utd/early Real years he combined talent and end products perfectly, showing the level of skills and goals only Messi could match at that time. At his later Real years, he is displaying less talent but becoming more efficient and clutch.
Hardwork/Dedication
C.Ronaldo 10/10 - probably the most determined/hardworking/dedicated footballer ever, dominate the world football for over a decade, still contender for Ballon D'or at age 34, playing nearly 1000 games, still at the very top of world football. At 34, he is still fitter than most other players at 25.
L.Ronaldo 7.5/10 - unlucky with injuries at early peak of his career. But still managed to recover and won a WC with Brazil, and enjoyed a few good years at Real. But then with ongoing weight and fitness issue when he is approaching 29-30, he started to decline fast and went back to Italy instead, not doing much there for 2 years, and getting injured again, he is done in Europe and went back to Brazil at 33. Only played 518 games throughout his career.
Ronaldinho 6/10 - his peak at Barca is truly beautiful to watch, probably the most entertaining player ever, truly a free style happy footballer everyone loves to watch. But somehow, suddenly, when he is still around 27-28, suppose entering his peak years, he becomes shite. And then he went to Italy for 3 years, didn't impress, went back to Brazil at 31.
Luck
C.Ronaldo 8.5/10 - lucky because he play for strong Man Utd/Real/Juventus side, especially Real, winning 4 CL there. Also lucky because he won the Euro with Portugal, even though he was injured in final match. Unlucky because he has to face Messi Barca (GOAT+Team of decade) throughout his time in Spain with them dominating La Liga. Unlucky also because he plays for a weaker national side with no chance of winning WC.
L.Ronaldo 7.5/10 - lucky because he won 2 WC. 94 WC won it without playing thanks to Romario/Bebeto, 02 won it with very strong Brazil golden generation. He is also playing for strong Real side too, but somehow underachieved. Unlucky because of long term injuries.
Ronaldinho 9/10 - lucky because he play for Brazil golden generation and won the WC. Also play for strong Barca side winning La Liga and CL. He underachieved because he is lazy rather than unlucky.
Success level
C.Ronaldo 10/10 - 5 Ballon D'ors, 5 CL, 1 Euro, overall won 29+ trophies, scored 700+ goals.
L.Ronaldo 8.5/10 - 2 Ballon D'ors, 2 WC, 2 Copa, overall won 18 trophies, scored 352 goals.
Ronaldinho 8/10 - 1 Ballon D'ors, 1 WC, 1 CL, 1 Copa, overall won 16 trophies, scored 280 goals.
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How about you, R.Ronaldo? fecking hell just how many Ronaldos are there?
Agree with this, Luis Ronaldo was something else, and have to say I don’t really enjoy watching C Ronaldo anymore. He’s just become very functional since he left United. So the other two win that one for me as well.
Well, like I said, you're wrong and he's definitely the greatest player ever. You may be looking for a Ronaldo haters forum somewhere, or else stay on topic and stop being ridiculous
Well I say, you're wrong and he's definitely not the greatest player ever. You may be looking for a Ronaldo lovers forum somewhere, or else stay on topic and stop being ridiculous.
This is a great debate.
Definitely isn't. And I don't have the maturity of an infant and hence don't categorize people as "haters". "On topic" isn't agreeing with the incorrect claim of him being the greatest, so jog on.
There isn't much of a debate here.
I don't know how anyone can say Ronaldinho was more naturally gifted, when the direct comparison is against Ronaldo. Ronaldo had all of Ronaldinho's tricks up his bag, but could pull them off going at the speed of lightening. That's something you can't teach.
CR
Ronaldo
Ronaldinho
Ronaldo
Ronaldinho
Most goals?
Most Ballon Dor awards?
Most trophies?
Longevity?
Strongest leader?
Yes we can say that the two Brazilians gave more joy and had more flair. They may have had more natural abilities to what they do with a football than CR7.
They may have even had a higher peak? It's arguable that Ronaldo 96-98 was better than Cristiano ever was. But even that is debatable. Cristiano scored more goals in his best ever seasons than Ronaldo did in his. Plus he managed to break records in football which were never heard of (along with Messi).
Then someone says, has he won a World Cup? Well, Ronaldo has spent most of his career in weaker Portugese sides. If Cristiano was 10 years older, Portugal with Figo, Costa and co would have won a lot.
Also to counter, as much as I Brazilian Ronaldo, you can counter that he hasn't won a Champions League.
You can then say they that the Brazilian Ronaldos didn't apply themselves or that they got injured. I'm sure if you used that logic you can say that there are many people that can use that argument.
In the end, it all comes down to who has had the best career. And Cristiano has had a much better career. If we were to talk about pure ability, there are many people that we have never heard of that had great ability but where are they now?
This is why CR7 is the greatest Ronaldo. There's only one other player you can compare him to (I won't mention his name in this thread).
Most Ballon Dor awards?
Most trophies?
Longevity?
Strongest leader?
Yes we can say that the two Brazilians gave more joy and had more flair. They may have had more natural abilities to what they do with a football than CR7.
They may have even had a higher peak? It's arguable that Ronaldo 96-98 was better than Cristiano ever was. But even that is debatable. Cristiano scored more goals in his best ever seasons than Ronaldo did in his. Plus he managed to break records in football which were never heard of (along with Messi).
Then someone says, has he won a World Cup? Well, Ronaldo has spent most of his career in weaker Portugese sides. If Cristiano was 10 years older, Portugal with Figo, Costa and co would have won a lot.
Also to counter, as much as I Brazilian Ronaldo, you can counter that he hasn't won a Champions League.
You can then say they that the Brazilian Ronaldos didn't apply themselves or that they got injured. I'm sure if you used that logic you can say that there are many people that can use that argument.
In the end, it all comes down to who has had the best career. And Cristiano has had a much better career. If we were to talk about pure ability, there are many people that we have never heard of that had great ability but where are they now?
This is why CR7 is the greatest Ronaldo. There's only one other player you can compare him to (I won't mention his name in this thread).
Indeed. Was more addressing the notion you couldn't see him play on a weekly basis at the time. He was the biggest single entity in football at the time, and with the Airport ad, the first new age star who opened the floodgates for everyone else.
As @harms pointed out, he took Serie A, and its galaxy of superstars, to a level unseen as everyone wanted to see him in the flesh, and if not live, then via TV. Channel 4's coup was insane when you think about how things are now.
Longevity obviously C Ronaldo. The guys been doing it for 15 years, which is ridiculous if you think about it. Club and country!
However, in terms of ability, I have to say Ronaldo. He was just simply frightening in his prime. Unstoppable!
However, in terms of ability, I have to say Ronaldo. He was just simply frightening in his prime. Unstoppable!
I realise this thread is actually a passing of the guard, one I didn't think I'd see in 2019, and not for at least a decade more.
You have the 90's, 00's and 10's being contested and literally people who only know of Ronaldo via clips, mythos and a handful of games arguing with complete confidence against, what is for them, a concept of a player, not the actual player. It's fascinating.
Ronaldinho doesn't suffer as badly in terms of recency bias; in fact his ability is being played up and revisionism elevating his dribbling, for example, to a level it never was - to even compare his dribbling and reliance on tricks with the 90's Ronaldo is an absurdity that couldn't have happened when the latter was still in the public consciousness.
Cristiano's story is being re-worked and re-written on here over the last few years, too. Perhaps it's plaudits for his stellar career and the undeniable, quite incredible carriage into his 30's. Either way, it's an interesting character study, one that can be evidenced with a tapestry of posts documenting his career from prominence (United) through to where he is now.
It isn't unfair to say Cristiano is also an idol for numerous United (and very probably Madrid) supporters - those who literally grew up with him being the man. Not sure how things would look on a neutral board, but I have my doubts they'd turn out like they have here.
As ever, to state as a disclaimer, what C.Ronaldo has done is nothing short of incredible - he is one of few who has eeked out every ounce of latent potential and maximised his talent. It's something you could argue very few in history have done the same, break down for example:
Puskas, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho (weight)
Garrincha, Best (alcoholism)
Maradona (drugs)
Beckenbauer, Platini, (Indifference/selective effort)
The likes of Pelé, Charlton, Di Stefano, Matthews we might say were the forefathers of tee-totality, but I don't think Di Stefano or Matthews maintained their intensity in the manner Cristiano has, and the others wound down earlier than Cristiano, although one might argue the number of games on those old pitches with those old kits and boots wore the body down as well as sports technology not being a scratch on what the Portuguese has at his disposal.
Anyway, I digress. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
You have the 90's, 00's and 10's being contested and literally people who only know of Ronaldo via clips, mythos and a handful of games arguing with complete confidence against, what is for them, a concept of a player, not the actual player. It's fascinating.
Ronaldinho doesn't suffer as badly in terms of recency bias; in fact his ability is being played up and revisionism elevating his dribbling, for example, to a level it never was - to even compare his dribbling and reliance on tricks with the 90's Ronaldo is an absurdity that couldn't have happened when the latter was still in the public consciousness.
Cristiano's story is being re-worked and re-written on here over the last few years, too. Perhaps it's plaudits for his stellar career and the undeniable, quite incredible carriage into his 30's. Either way, it's an interesting character study, one that can be evidenced with a tapestry of posts documenting his career from prominence (United) through to where he is now.
It isn't unfair to say Cristiano is also an idol for numerous United (and very probably Madrid) supporters - those who literally grew up with him being the man. Not sure how things would look on a neutral board, but I have my doubts they'd turn out like they have here.
As ever, to state as a disclaimer, what C.Ronaldo has done is nothing short of incredible - he is one of few who has eeked out every ounce of latent potential and maximised his talent. It's something you could argue very few in history have done the same, break down for example:
Puskas, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho (weight)
Garrincha, Best (alcoholism)
Maradona (drugs)
Beckenbauer, Platini, (Indifference/selective effort)
The likes of Pelé, Charlton, Di Stefano, Matthews we might say were the forefathers of tee-totality, but I don't think Di Stefano or Matthews maintained their intensity in the manner Cristiano has, and the others wound down earlier than Cristiano, although one might argue the number of games on those old pitches with those old kits and boots wore the body down as well as sports technology not being a scratch on what the Portuguese has at his disposal.
Anyway, I digress. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
This is a crass, stupid debate.
You can't use both arguments because they contradict each other.
Ronaldo made some bad choices and was unlucky with injuries robbing him of what could have been the greatest career in this sport. By the time he joined the woefully mismanaged 'Galacticos', he was already a pale shadow of the player he once was - and even with that he was still one of the best strikers in the world (Henry, Shevchenko being the others), which just goes to show you just how damn good the guy was before that.
Bear in mind teams weren't as stacked and there were far less 'super teams' - yes, a large majority of the reason that two teams have won about 8 of the Champions Leagues between them this decade is Messi and Ronaldo, but you had a lot more talent spread out within each league itself, nevermind across the various leagues. There was no PSG of course, but the Dutch, Portuguese and German leagues were on the whole a lot more competitive in Europe around that time.
Even in the 2000s, when he joined Real Madrid, you had Valencia winning two league titles, Deportivo winning the 1999/2000 season. Real finished quite low a few times in about a 10-12 year period from the mid/late 90s to the mid/late 2000s.
And the Barcelona and Internationazle he joined during what are now considered his peak years, weren't quite the Barca circa Messi era and Inter circa Mourinho. Remember, Barcelona had only won ONE European Cup up until 2005/2006.
On top of that, you didn't have the "top 4" from the three big leagues gaining automatic qualification back then.
Yes, it is a blemish against his name - but just putting it into context - and also pointing out that you can't use both arguments in that case.