You're still not responding to any of my actual questions.
Compulsory military service re-introduced in France.
- Thread starter jackofalltrades
- Start date
Another recruit for the tinfoil army. So many contradictions within the same post it is unreal.
Seriously, have you ever asked yourself how is it possible that so few of you are smart enough to discover the truth about the armed forces, this country has produced some of the brightest minds yet only a select few have realised it and at least two are on RedCafe. Well I’ll be damned.
I don’t do my job to get recognition, this is why I couldn’t care less if you or your buddy like or respect me or others in uniform. I’m trying to educate you on some things you have no idea about yet you still are spouting your drivel about the elite conspiracy and how pawns like me ensure they stay in power. I keep rambling about how the armed forces have very little to do with combat yet you still go on about how we’re waging war and killing innocents.
I have a family too, a mortgage and have struggled to make ends meet on occasions but I don’t sit behind my keyboard blaming the elites for my misfortunes. Sure the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer but that’s the way of life, wealth will just create more wealth. Something needs to be done about the inequality but giving handouts to everyone is not the answer. And again, we live in one of the top 7 economies in the world do we really have poor people? I mean I have literally seen people eat dirt, and drink faeces contaminated water to survive and you’re talking to me about bailiffs knocking on people’s doors to collect debts that they have often stupidly accumulated by spending way more than they can afford. Go explain that to someone in Haiti, who has no home money food or water and has to literally survive against all odds and diesease every day. Go explain to them how much of a nuisance bailiffs can be. You don’t even know what the real world is like because you’re probably never been interested to find out. Like most people you’re just interested about what goes on only up to the end of your mews.
And telling me to go to a soup kitchen and really make a difference just shows how ignorant you are about what the armed forces really do.
I can’t be bothered to read much of the stuff a lot of you are posting anymore. It’s a massive waste of time.
I don’t even know what your question was anymore, so much crap to trawl through.
I’ve had way too much internet recently to the point that it’s unhealthy. Leave will end soon and I’ll be back to dealing with real world problems instead of just talking about it. lol
Grib is really making a name for himself here.
Ah yeah, it's tough to go a few posts back and find them. I guess they don't teach you that in the navy.
This thread is starting to feel like the Messi vs Ronaldo thread.
10 points for guessing who this threads' Cal? is.
10 points for guessing who this threads' Cal? is.
I was a bit tired last night. I don't see a question that I've not answered though. If you could point it out I will.
You're not really educating anybody on anything in this thread. You're just regurgitating anything I can read in an Andy McNab book. Also shitting on people in debt the way you just did explains your attitude really. You're as bad as anyone you're quoting in your arrogance, disdain and lack of empathy to any viewpoint or situation other than your own. Also nothing that you are posting is liberal, so I'm still trying to work out how you consider yourself to be liberal when everything you're posting with regards to human rights, the use of torture, economics, benefits etc is on the right.
Majority of the world's problem these days is caused by some country meddling on other countries business
If there's a neo nazi swallowing countries right left center and aiming to swallow my country I'd probably draft myself for the cause, but not for this garbage excuse and political vote instrument because it might appeal to some. Demographic somewhere
Probably why millions are drafting on wwii, even when they're not fit or underaged. Call it successful propaganda if you will but they mean business when they draft by their own free will
Do you crack immigrats stealing jobs? Do you protect food convoy? Do you defend your country against invader, from where? Patrolling the sea for illegal fisherman?
Oh do enlighten us about what you do in the navy?
If there's a neo nazi swallowing countries right left center and aiming to swallow my country I'd probably draft myself for the cause, but not for this garbage excuse and political vote instrument because it might appeal to some. Demographic somewhere
Probably why millions are drafting on wwii, even when they're not fit or underaged. Call it successful propaganda if you will but they mean business when they draft by their own free will
What exactly do you do? Enlighten me.
Do you crack immigrats stealing jobs? Do you protect food convoy? Do you defend your country against invader, from where? Patrolling the sea for illegal fisherman?
Oh do enlighten us about what you do in the navy?
The Royal Navy doesn't do much of anything it seems, apart from fixing leaky old boats:
Traditionally, Britain’s Royal Navy has been the U.S. Navy’s closest partner. The two have fought together against most every foe. So any weakening of the Royal Navy also erodes Washington’s naval power.
Today, however, the Royal Navy is a shadow of its former self. Government budgeteers have repeatedly, and excessively, cut the numbers of its ships, planes and manpower. It can barely patrol the United Kingdom’s own waters, much less project British influence abroad.
Though London officials now vow to reverse the decline, it might be too late. With morale plummeting, and its few remaining ships frequently malfunctioning at sea, the Royal Navy’s suffering might be terminal.
The timing couldn’t be worse. The West is mobilizing to defeat Islamic State, deter an increasingly aggressive Russia and manage China’s meteoric rise as a world power. The British fleet’s collapse is an object lesson for cash-strapped governments struggling to balance competing budgetary needs in a seemingly ever more volatile world.
Apparently there's a lot of unpatriotic snowflakes in parliament cutting their funding.
I’m afraid I can’t divulge much but;
You can find pleasure, search the world for treasure, learn science technology
and begin to make your dreams all come true on the land or on the sea, you can learn to fly, play in sports and sky dive, study oceanography, sign up for the big band, or sit in the grandstand, where your team and others meet.
In the navy, Yes, you can sail the seven seas, In the navy, Yes, you can put your mind at ease, In the navy, Come on now, people, make a stand, In the navy, in the navy, Can't you see we need a hand, In the navy, Come on, protect the mother land, In the navy, Come on and join your fellow man, In the navy, Come on people, and make a stand, In the navy, in the navy, in the navy (in the navy)
Basically.
Well yeah when people are set in their imagination and perceptions they won't really accept anything else. Brexit being the perfect example of that. I didn't know who McNab was and after Googling him I would probably say his account would be loosely based on what he witnessed during his time in service. Shitting on people that spend a lot more than they can afford? Yeah that's a smart thing to do, let's spend money we don't have because we've been given free money by the bank. That's who I specifically mentioned not people that fall on hard times for one reason or another like I have done myself.
I don't have anything against people receiving benefits, we should absolutely take care of those in need, you need to look thoroughly as I have debated this many times in other threads. What I referred to was the Green robin hood-esque policies of taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor when I mentioned handouts.
I don't think we should violate Human Rights, we should do our outmost to protect them not just here but abroad too, but what I said is sometimes it is understandable when it happens because one key thing about a persons rights is that they end where those of others begin. So based on that what I do find acceptable is for someone who is plotting to take other peoples basic right to life or worse does, not be afforded some of their rights in order to avert further violation of other people's basic rights if it is deemed that that is the case. You'd be speculating if you think that those decisions are taken lightly. It goes through very high up the chain of command because it could in effect a criminal offence for which every link in the chain must take full responsibility and would face the consequences. And of course advocates of Human Rights must accept Article 6 the individuals right to a fair trial. In cases where someone has tortured an individual for example in order to obtain information that would avert a terrorist act and save lives, do you really see any judge or jury convicting them? Where would the public interest be in that to even start prosecution?
We're dealing with a lot of hypothetical and given how wrong some of your (not just you I mean in general people arguing here) perceptions are about what really goes on, I would say it's not a conversation that will bring any fruitful discussion. I have my fair share of the blame for opening up a can of worms on a football forum most of all but I think some of you really ought to evalute your involvement in debates that you know little about. This is not me being condescending, this is me portraying my approach to debate in general.
So basically you sometimes think we should violate human rights then...
What I specifically do isn't really important. To entertain some of your mockery I will tell you that the Navy does not crack down on immigrants, their job is to rescue those stranded and in danger. The Navy protects shipping lines at every aspect of the supply chain from when they leave their origin anywhere in the world to when they make it to our shores. The Navy is on alert when any threat to our shores is perceived. And as a final point, the Navy, including the Royal Marines battle trafficking on a regular basis on our shores and abroad and having seen the destruction and death the drug trade brings to people's lives around the world I am absolutely disgusted at the naive idiots at the Green party who would instead opt to legalise drugs.
By nature, at least under the ECHR, you have absolute rights, limited rights and qualified rights.
Essentially some basic human rights can totally and justifiably be set aside or ‘violated’ as specified in the Convention or Statute.
It's inevitable that it happens in certain situations to protect the rights and freedoms of others.
But where it happens is questionable. Doubly so when a lot of the evidence suggests that torture doesn't really get you the answers you're looking for at all and just prompts people to say anything which will stop them getting tortured. Being asked to trust higher-ups to make the right decisions when they've constantly made wrongs ones isn't an easy ask. You can look through most major nations and see atrocities which were committed in the name of some supposed moral cause, and even in recent years we've seen the horrors of Guantanamo Bay.
But you don't even do this yourself. Which makes you just as bad as anyone else here, worse when you then get all righteous about it.
Scientific evidence concludes torture in fact does not work at all. Not only because people will say anything to make the pain stop, but also because extreme conditions like sleep deprivation, lack of oxygen or extreme physical trauma can cloud, obscure or even distort your memories.
I don't really care if they beat a suicide bomber with a heavy object or stick his head in a bucket of water, it just doesn't help to get any intel. The real world is not an episode of Homeland or 24, that's the most ironic part of this entire discussion and makes me seriously question some people's so called inside knowledge.
The key thing as I have mentioned quite clearly is that we are dealing with hypotheticals. You simply cannot extrapolate data from the unknown without having any sort of valid sequence to start eith. As I have repeated few times before, no organisation will give you accurate data and make a case for torture because there would be massive backlash even if the data showed that it was 100% effective. Would you change your stance on it if that was the case? I highly doubt any/many would. The fact that it continues to happen should tell you that it is deemed an effective way to gain information or that our security services are sadistic evil pieces of shit and that’s how they get their kicks. It’s not a binary choice but the answer lies somewhere beteeen those two.
Please elaborte where I have done this?
They're right in #705 - the first post of mine you replied to in this specific conversation. If you can't figure out what the questions are I don't see any point repeating them. I'll give you a few hints though: I didn't ask for a lecture on everything that's wrong with the green party and the questions are usually followed by a question mark (looks like this: ?).
I’ve answered those questions, if you didn’t understand my answer point out which parts and I will elaborate further.
And you think those cadets with 1 year basic training on marching would help you do your job? At the expense of their education, their plan, and their youth?
This thread has got so derailed that I thought to myself for a moment what on earth is he on about
These are just some of the specific things the Navy does, if conscription was introduced which I would be in favour of, it would benefit them more than the service directly for reasons stated at the beginning of this discussion, and of course you would get those who would choose to stay on and pursue a career in the armed forces. Contrary to popular belief the armed forces are not just about war there's hundreds of thousands of day to day operations that are carried out from cooking and cleaning, administration etc, all the way to testing and maintaining billion pound pieces of equipment. They are equally important interlinked jobs that ensure everything works like a well oiled machine.
You don't spend a year in basic training, most will have their qualification after 1 year. Also the time spent in the army isn't at the expense of education, you can learn a job from informatician, electrician, mechanics, translator, topography, you can learn to drive a large range of vehicles and many other things.
Its like this in the US as well. A vast majority of the jobs deal with maintaining the day to day administrative infrastructure of the organization and very few have anything to do with actual fighting.This thread has got so derailed that I thought to myself for a moment what on earth is he on about
These are just some of the specific things the Navy does, if conscription was introduced which I would be in favour of, it would benefit them more than the service directly for reasons stated at the beginning of this discussion, and of course you would get those who would choose to stay on and pursue a career in the armed forces. Contrary to popular belief the armed forces are not just about war there's hundreds of thousands of day to day operations that are carried out from cooking and cleaning, administration etc, all the way to testing and maintaining billion pound pieces of equipment. They are equally important interlinked jobs that ensure everything works like a well oiled machine.
And another thing to boot successfully completing training also means you will receive CTC or SC security clearance which already opens up more job opportunities in places like airports for example etc.
Please explain this crucial point to the people in this thread because it is excruciatingly draining for me to keep repeating myself while they keep on going on about the war waging machine.
You didn't answer either question in that post, but instead talked about the green party. Again, pay attention to the question marks - they're there to help and guide you.
I'm tired of repeating myself, if you or anyone else is looking for answers feel free to trawl through the ones already provided.
You haven't provided any.
My answer would be nothing, continue to vote for whoever you want, continue to voice your disagreement with the military. It's not going to change much but at least it keeps a certain level of morality and decency in this world.
If you're tired of repeating yourself, then maybe go back and look at the original post so you can say something different. There are two questions in the post and they're easy to spot - one is the first sentence and the other is the last. I'll help you out even more - not only are they followed by question marks, now the text is also in bold!
In what world is "Green party LOL" an acceptable answer to either of those questions?
The second question which was the culmination of the context in your post was answered in that and subsequent post by highlighting that voting the Green party isn't doing something nor is ranting about it on the internet.
The answer to the first question was in the post you quoted to write that question. The threshold is lowered to the point that the most ridiculous of things set people off.
Then answer the actual question I wrote - what are people supposed to do then?
This is not correct though, and if you actually bothered reading the whole paragraph (I suppose this is partly my fault since I made you focus on the question mark) you'll see that I make that argument. There has always been a small minority who gets upset at minor, and pointless, things. Why do you care about that small minority? It's not representative of any generation.
Possibly a daft question, but do those on military service actually fight if in a war or is it just training?
It depends on the conflicts, if it's a huge one they could eventually get involved but nowadays wars are mainly the job of highly skilled and highly specialized units. Those in military service aren't battle ready, they don't have special skills, so they are at the end of the potential list.
At what cost? Taxpayers money are used for their training, allowance, lodging, and equipment.
If it's up to me the money would be better spent on education subsidy.
The problem is those recruits are practically useless in terms of practical use. Sure you can drive a lorry, operate guns, but do you think they'd work for free or even wanted to volunteer to social service once they graduate? We'll be back to square one again.
Say france hosted a world cup. Can they force these reserve to participate in any sort of capacity without being paid? Each and everyone of them will be back to being a civilian after the training, france has no authority to tell them to do anything short of a real actual war.
From the defending the nation aspect, if really one day france is being invaded, they'd come with full equiped military, and no amount of 1 year training can really do much.