Cop in America doing a bad job, again

[pocco]

It's easy for you to call him stupid but you cannot guarantee how you would act if you had a gun drawn at you. There are a million things thise policemen could have done before pumping seven shots in his back.
It's a disgusting lack of respect for another person's life.

I'm sorry but I absolutely do, I wouldn't take it this lightly and I bet nearly everybody else would do as they're told in that situation. I honestly can't believe he's just ignored them. We've seen it so, so many times now. Reach for your pockets, your glove compartment, whatever, and you get shot. He simply has to know this if I do.

If I had the US police with guns at me I'd just do what they asked and would talk to them about any movement I'm about to make. It's simply a losing battle to try to resist when they can and will just end you for so little.

 

[afrocentricity]

Don't try to go down that road with me, because it's been discussed a 1000 times on here and I completely understand the main issues at play here. I'm skipping past all that (racism, guns, police brutality) and just wondering, given everything the he and we know about police over there, why he still decided to try to get into his car. We all know how their police operate, one slight false move and its over. Do you understand what I'm saying?

I'm sorry but I absolutely do, I wouldn't take it this lightly and I bet nearly everybody else would do as they're told in that situation. I honestly can't believe he's just ignored them. We've seen it so, so many times now. Reach for your pockets, your glove compartment, whatever, and you get shot. He simply has to know this if I do.

Seriously... So fecking what? Cops have fecked up regardless. Do we really have to go through the victim blaming checklist right now? People do crazy shit all the time, most of the time it doesn't end in several shots to the back.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Even if he should've known better, I don't get how it's possible to play the devils advocate in this. Just burn the fecking system to the ground and start over. Hit the reset button.

 

[Sky1981]

Should change the thread title from again to as always

 

[calodo2003]

I really don't understand why and how a cop can do this. I mean... how on earth can you defend this in any way?

I get that the guy might be reaching for a weapon in the car or something like that. But to shoot the guy in the back 7 (!!!) times? I mean.. Wow. I literally don't understand how this is possible. Why not shoot him in the leg at least? What happened to tasers? So many questions.

Are they taught to act like this? Even encouraged/obliged to by their superiors? Are the people in charge of this insane behavior (police education, higher ranking superiors, politicians) ever held accountable?

As disgusting as this sounds, there’s a decent shot they will not get in any meaningful trouble from this shooting as they will undoubtedly state they were fearful from the victim potentially reaching for a weapon in his car.

 

[Paxi]

Hope the lad pulls through. Absolutely sickening.

 

[Stack]

You've got to be stupid to do what he did. Seriously, you lean into your car where they can't see your hands, we all know what happens next in that backwards country.

People dont always act rationally when in situations of high stress however professionals such as the police trained to deal with high stress situations really should be able to handle this situation better.

 

[Rado_N]

I can’t comprehend watching that video and having my first thought be to critique the actions of the guy getting shot 7 times in the back.

 

[matherto]

I’ve gotta be honest, both sides are to blame.

Trigger happy US cops who only know to shoot when faced with adversity/non compliance and don’t consider a multitude of other options first AND a guy reaching into his car having ignored said trigger happy cops who must surely know what happens next. Obviously they’re gonna think you’re going for a gun so they’ll shoot you, why do it?

All in the backdrop of the current situation where surely both sides are aware of how things appear?

He absolutely didn’t deserve to die but it was only going to end one way given all the factors at play. To see only one side to blame in either direction is part of the overarching problem.

Just add it to the shitshow pile that is America in 2020.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Why are you pointing your gun at a guy's back while he's walking away from you?

There's only one answer, and that's that you've resolved to shoot him and not apprehend him.

 

[SilentWitness]

Guy walking to car - hey, shall we maybe apprehend him before he goes to the car and possibly gets a weapon? Nah, let's walk with our gun pointed at him while he does so and then shoot him 7 times in the back, just because.

 

[Redlambs]

I know but I doubt they would just shoot him in the leg because he could potentially try to get in his car. Playing devils advocate a bit here, but they tried to stop him getting into his car. If he had stopped then he might not have got shot.

I'm absolutely not condoning anything the police have done here, by the way. Just wondering what he was thinking. I mean, I'm not American but if I was over there and their police had their guns on me, I'd be unbelievably careful in every action I took until the situation was under control and their guns away. We know how trigger happy they are - I just can't believe he ignored everything, especially in this current climate where these issues are at the fore. I mean, it's almost like he's tried to make himself a martyr, this possibility must have crossed his mind when he ignored them. It's shit, really shit. But I feel like completely avoidable. I don't get the feeling that these police were like some of the others that were looking to kill, just following their shitty training.

I mean, at some point you need to look back at this and see the problem.

Don't get me wrong, I get what you are trying to do. However a man has been shot 7 times in the back, in a country you don't know and a situation you've never been in...Tell me, what makes you the person to play "devil's advocate" here and then go on to say how you'd react in that very situation?

 

[Adisa]

Guy walking to car - hey, shall we maybe apprehend him before he goes to the car and possibly gets a weapon? Nah, let's walk with our gun pointed at him while he does so and then shoot him 7 times in the back, just because.

Bingo.

 

[Posh Red]

I can’t comprehend watching that video and having my first thought be to critique the actions of the guy getting shot 7 times in the back.

It’s disgusting.

 

[Maagge]

It's the "she was asking for it"-defence of criminal police officers.

 

[GiddyUp]

Why were their guns drawn on him in the first place???
Was it because he refused to show his ID?
I firmly believe that the cops in this country should not be carrying lethal firearms on their fat waists. Cowardly cnuts.

 

[Deery]

That’s terrible why doesn’t the cop even try to restrain the guy instead of shooting him in back 7 times?
It’s as if he has no care at all that it’s another human being..

 

[afrocentricity]

 

[Cassidy]

People dont always act rationally when in situations of high stress however professionals such as the police trained to deal with high stress situations really should be able to handle this situation better.

Pretty much

 

[Cassidy]

Sigh

 

[Cassidy]

Think I need to leave this thread for my own mental wellbeing

 

[Gehrman]

How about they equipped police with guns that fire tranquilzer darts as well? Shoot suspect without killing him.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

How about they equipped police with guns that fire tranquilzer darts as well? Shoot suspect without killing him.

Not foolproof and people will still die.

Among other things, they need to reassess their engagement model and stop shooting people who are fleeing if they aren't going to be a danger to the public. It's not like they'll be impossible to find again.

 

[Gehrman]

Not foolproof and people will still die.

Among other things, they need to reassess their engagement model and stop shooting people who are fleeing if they aren't going to be a danger to the public. It's not like they'll be impossible to find again.

I'm thinking about situations where they suspect a person to be reaching for a gun or a weapon. Not foolproof(and might lead to complications), but an improvement on empying a clip into guys who are non-compliant.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

I'm thinking about situations where they suspect a person to be reaching for a gun or a weapon. Not foolproof(and might lead to complications), but an improvement on empying a clip into guys who are non-compliant.

Fair points, I'm sure. There may also be legal obstacles to the administration of what are probably controlled substances to humans by non-medical professionals. Not sure if any of these substances would work quickly enough, either.

This video seems a decent explanation of why not:

 

[RooneyLegend]

It's scary how cheap life is in the USA. I live in a country with a very high crime rate but it honestly never feels like you could die for nothing. Can't imagine one of our cops just killing someone for entering their car with kids Inside.

 

[Gehrman]

Fair points, I'm sure. There may also be legal obstacles to the administration of what are probably controlled substances to humans by non-medical professionals. Not sure if any of these substances would work quickly enough, either.

This video seems a decent explanation of why not:

Good point. It was just an idea I floated for 5 seconds in my head where cops still get to shoot people but not(mostly) kill them. Anyway good video.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Good point. It was just an idea I floated for 5 seconds in my head where cops still get to shoot people but not(mostly) kill them. Anyway good video.

I think we both learned something from it. Good of you to raise the question.

 

[Icemav]

I’ve gotta be honest, both sides are to blame.

Trigger happy US cops who only know to shoot when faced with adversity/non compliance and don’t consider a multitude of other options first AND a guy reaching into his car having ignored said trigger happy cops who must surely know what happens next. Obviously they’re gonna think you’re going for a gun so they’ll shoot you, why do it?

All in the backdrop of the current situation where surely both sides are aware of how things appear?

He absolutely didn’t deserve to die but it was only going to end one way given all the factors at play. To see only one side to blame in either direction is part of the overarching problem.

Just add it to the shitshow pile that is America in 2020.

Just a fecking nightmare. Thank god I don't live in the US. As you say the entire incident here is a shit show and I want no part of that environment. I remember the video of the guy being executed outside his hotel room trying to be 100% compliant with a narcissist control freak cop, but he was terrified and made mistakes. No compassion, no understanding, no common sense, and ultimately he was no threat either. Executed. Then this scenario where guns are drawn on you by policeman for no truly compelling reason and then things get out of control and another execution (attempted). I mean I can't imagine how many people would be shot on a friday night in Cardiff if the same procedures were followed. Disturbance = guns drawn. But then again no citizens are walking around with concealed firearms they legally bought from their cousin at a bbq. A toxic culture.

 

[Icemav]

It's scary how cheap life is in the USA. I live in a country with a very high crime rate but it honestly never feels like you could die for nothing. Can't imagine one of our cops just killing someone for entering their car with kids Inside.

Thats how I feel.

 

[matherto]

It’s disgusting.

It's not though.

I think US Police are fecking terrible. Horribly trained, scared shitless, power tripping, racist monsters from everything I've seen.

BUT

To deny that the guy that got shot did anything 'wrong' in this scenario causes the divide and the problem.

I've no idea what he did to cause the situation to begin with and no matter what it was, it wasn't enough to ever deserve death but he literally picked a hill to die on. It's absolutely not right at all that he was murdered like that no doubt but he DID contribute to it by ignoring them and going to his car.

Surely as a black man in the current climate in America with cops all pointing a gun at you, you live to fight another day and just stay down? It's awful that it's even a suggestion because it's so unjust to us but in that moment it's either that or you die isn't it? That's the choice black folk in America have right now when in that situation. Why purposely go for the option that gets you killed? If I'm a black guy in America and I get caught by the cops in 2020 with protests, rioting, looting, propaganda, bad police training, racism, everything going on, I'm complying so I don't die knowing full well even the merest hint on non-compliance and I'm dead.

We can absolutely allow for the thought that people won't act rationally in such a scenario and I hopefully will never be in that scenario so me commenting on what I personally would do is a bit rich but did the guy really think he'd get away with walking away from those monsters and going into his car? If he did then it's astonishing recklessness and a complete lack of awareness of the current climate.

Oh and the cops mightily fecked up and deserve to hang, in case you want to say I'm victim shaming. It's not nice to hear when someone gets unjustly murdered in cold blood like this but denying contributing factors from the poor victim's POV doesn't get us anywhere.

 

[NotThatSoph]

To deny that the guy that got shot did anything 'wrong' in this scenario causes the divide and the problem.

I suggest you take a look at that sentence one more time.

 

[Posh Red]

It's not though.

I think US Police are fecking terrible. Horribly trained, scared shitless, power tripping, racist monsters from everything I've seen.

BUT

To deny that the guy that got shot did anything 'wrong' in this scenario causes the divide and the problem.

I've no idea what he did to cause the situation to begin with and no matter what it was, it wasn't enough to ever deserve death but he literally picked a hill to die on. It's absolutely not right at all that he was murdered like that no doubt but he DID contribute to it by ignoring them and going to his car.

Surely as a black man in the current climate in America with cops all pointing a gun at you, you live to fight another day and just stay down? It's awful that it's even a suggestion because it's so unjust to us but in that moment it's either that or you die isn't it? That's the choice black folk in America have right now when in that situation. Why purposely go for the option that gets you killed? If I'm a black guy in America and I get caught by the cops in 2020 with protests, rioting, looting, propaganda, bad police training, racism, everything going on, I'm complying so I don't die knowing full well even the merest hint on non-compliance and I'm dead.

We can absolutely allow for the thought that people won't act rationally in such a scenario and I hopefully will never be in that scenario so me commenting on what I personally would do is a bit rich but did the guy really think he'd get away with walking away from those monsters and going into his car? If he did then it's astonishing recklessness and a complete lack of awareness of the current climate.

Oh and the cops mightily fecked up and deserve to hang, in case you want to say I'm victim shaming. It's not nice to hear when someone gets unjustly murdered in cold blood like this but denying contributing factors from the poor victim's POV doesn't get us anywhere.

No it doesn’t.

 

[Rado_N]

It's not though.

I think US Police are fecking terrible. Horribly trained, scared shitless, power tripping, racist monsters from everything I've seen.

BUT

You don’t say “but” after that. You stop and that’s it.

To deny that the guy that got shot did anything 'wrong' in this scenario causes the divide and the problem.

Shut the feck up.

 

[Maagge]

No it doesn’t.

Time for the Bors cartoon again it seems.

 

[matherto]

You don’t say “but” after that. You stop and that’s it.



Shut the feck up.

You're denying what happened.

The police shot him in cold blood seven times in the back, it's absolutely unjust, should never have happened, they should hang for what they did and absolutely nothing the victim did to cause them to pull him up warrants being murdered. We're ALL in agreement with that. That's one part of what happened that nobody can deny.

What happened to get to that stage though? Walk me through it. From the moment they drew guns on him in the first place to the moment he got shot repeatedly, what happened? We've all seen the video but what happened, did he magically get moved by some unknown, unseen force to a position where he was reaching into his car or did he do something? Anything? Before we get to the moment the officer made the choice to be an awful human being and pull the trigger, what happened Rado?

Forget apportioning blame because the blame lies with the officers shooting him. What happened? I know it's hugely uncomfortable but denying reality (i.e. no, he didn't walk to the car and reach in) isn't going to help,

 

[matherto]

No it doesn’t.

Right - he's still alive
Wrong - he isn't

There was a right way to survive and a wrong way to die, he's dead so did he do the right thing in that scenario?

Not morally right because we know morality has flown out of the window in the event and also in terms of unjust killings of black Americans by racist white police, but right to survive?

 

[Rado_N]

Shut up.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

He's not dead yet, apparently.

And he was breaking up a fight. What did he do that required the police to draw their weapons?

 

[matherto]

I suggest you take a look at that sentence one more time.

How did he get shot if he didn't do anything? Did they shoot him when he had his hands up in front of the car or did they shoot him after he started walking towards it and leaned in?

We know US cops are horrendous but they don't just idly shoot willy nilly to waste bullets, there are always contributing factors to the mess they create each time this happens so what are they in this instance beyond bad training, racism, power tripping, scared shitless, etc? How did it get from point A = victim is alive to point B = victim is dead? (EDIT - not dead)