I watched the video and she had a knife but it wasn’t clear that she was actually going to use it. I saw somewhere on twitter that she actually called the police because she was being jumped at her own house and the knife was to defend herself.
Cop in America doing a bad job, again
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You didn't see the stabbing motion towards the pink girl? Did you see it in slow motion? It might be true that she had the knife to defend herself, but when the cops arrived at the scene you see her attacking 2 people with a knife. The whole thing looks a mess. The other dude kicks the first girl, who was attacked, in the the head, when she's down.
I’ve just seen a clearer version which has been slowed down. She does go for the other girl but I still think the officer could have used a non lethal force. He made no attempt to de escalate the situation. Didn’t even tell her to put the knife down just started shooting.
How you descalate a situation when a stabbing attack happens a few seconds after you arrive at the scene? The only completely ideal action, I can see in that situation is to tackle the girl immidiately when she lunges at the first one.
That’s what I meant he could’ve de-escalated it by stopping her before she even lunged at the girl in pink. When she attempted to stab her he could’ve tazered her or gone for the legs at most if he had to shoot. Apparently officers are taught that if in extreme cases they *must* shoot, they should aim for the legs or shoulder area.
Just so you know, none of that last part is true.
The ridiculous gun culture, combined with poor training is the main cause of all this. The reason US officers have to act differently is because everytime a suspect reaches for something, they HAVE to assume its a gun. It's indoctrinated into them. And if they've made the decision that a suspect is going for a lethal weapon, they have to act with lethal force.
It's sad, awful, unfair but thats the issue.
Cops need far better training, and so do the public. The Washington Post did an awesome job putting together a database of police killings. Take a guess at what percent of victims were unarmed. I certainly found it surprising.
Seems clear from the footage that a person was about to be stabbed, when the officer shot the girl with the knife. Maybe he could have somehow deescalated before it came to this, but the situation seems like a complete mess from the beginning.. As others have said, tazers are not completely reliable, and the same goes for shooting at the legs. He has to make a really quick decision, and using his gun does not seem inappropriate in this instance.
In any case, this is not at all comparable to the incidents involving George Floyd, Tamir Rice, Michael Brown and others, and should not result in the same levels of outrage.
In any case, this is not at all comparable to the incidents involving George Floyd, Tamir Rice, Michael Brown and others, and should not result in the same levels of outrage.
No when people's lives are in immidiate danger, deadly force is allowed.
Like some scenario's could have happened here.
1. Shoot the girl with a tazer when she's lunging a knife at the girl in pinks neck. It works and they are able to subdue her.
2. Tazer doesn't work and girl in pink gets stabbed. Perhaps dies or suffers injuries.
3. Alternatively girl in pink manages to evade the attack and the attacker gets tazered into submission.
Again it's a really tragic situation, but a extremely volatile situation where already a 2nd girl is being attacked with a knife immidiately after the 1st one and the police have to make a split second jugdement call.
I do not see how anyone can watch the footage and not accept that the girl in pink was in immediate danger of being stabbed.
In the video it appeared that the police has just arrived and there doesn't seem to have been any time for an attempt at de-escalation before it all kicks off.
From what Ive seen online there seems to be a rush to label this an unlawful killing, associate it with the guilty verdict and protest it as another black person shot by the racist cops for no reason but this one doesn't look like that to me from the footage available.
In the video it appeared that the police has just arrived and there doesn't seem to have been any time for an attempt at de-escalation before it all kicks off.
From what Ive seen online there seems to be a rush to label this an unlawful killing, associate it with the guilty verdict and protest it as another black person shot by the racist cops for no reason but this one doesn't look like that to me from the footage available.
I have just seen the slowed down video and I am not so sure. That girl looks like she was about to stab the other girl.
Again I haven't watched it, I watched Floyd's and that was enough of me watching people die.
But if all that everyone said above is true, that the victim was just about to stab someone and yet people are still calling this an unjust shooting, does anyone ever worry at some point, police will be called and they'll just not ever do what they should do our of fear of backlash?
Is there a scenario where that cop second guesses himself, doesn't fire and then that member of the public actually gets stabbed? What then?
But if all that everyone said above is true, that the victim was just about to stab someone and yet people are still calling this an unjust shooting, does anyone ever worry at some point, police will be called and they'll just not ever do what they should do our of fear of backlash?
Is there a scenario where that cop second guesses himself, doesn't fire and then that member of the public actually gets stabbed? What then?
Having watched it, I find it hard to think of any way the police officer could have done anything other than shoot or put his own life at risk to stop the other person being stabbed.
I'm not sure how effective a taser would be in that situation, perhaps someone with experience could explain.
She looked like she was going crazy with that knife.
I'm not sure how effective a taser would be in that situation, perhaps someone with experience could explain.
She looked like she was going crazy with that knife.
There is a risk of that. But unlike here in England, Cops in the US seem to be trained to use deadly force as the first option. In this case, I can't make much of an argument but I am speaking generally. Not often do you hear an officer shot someone with a deadly weapon dead over here.
For feck sake, 4:50 onwards. She has her arm back and lunges with the knife at the girl in pink. How do people not see that? Nothing tragic about someone going to stab someone and being stopped.
After Wright and Toledo I told myself not to watch yet another person dying this month, but I did it anyways. While I wish the LEO had found a way to handle this nonlethally (not saying I know a way, just being hopeful), I can understand why he shot.
Yet again, all stems from Guns.
If the officers weren't carrying they would have dealt with it differently.
You have to wonder though what was going through the girls head? I suppose being 16 years old she didn't know how to act around a policeman with a gun.
If the officers weren't carrying they would have dealt with it differently.
You have to wonder though what was going through the girls head? I suppose being 16 years old she didn't know how to act around a policeman with a gun.
No he couldn't. He wasn't close enough for one and for 2 she was in the process of stabbing the other girl. He either lets her stab the other girl or shoots her from his vantage point.
Also if he was close enough, he wasn't, to use another method of stopping her he risks being stabbed to death himself
Yup, it's a shitshow all round. But it's again one of those situations which if it happened anywhere else in the western world, probably wouldn't have seen a shooting. It's a tough one, if I'm that girl about to be stabbed and police officers turn up with guns and a taser, I'd be wanting them to pull that gun out without question and I'd assume everyone would be the same. A gun has a 100% rate of effectiveness, a taser about 50% to 75% depending on factors such as proximity, size of target, clothing etc.
If I'm an officer i'm thinking the same, but then I'm also thinking a gun is far deadlier than a knife, maybe I take the chance with the taser but then what if it fails and this woman is stabbed and DOES die and I'm seen to have been standing there and not prevented it. Now this is my review in hindsight where I've had time to think, calculate and review. This event happened in about twelve seconds.
The predominant reaction on twitter has been critical of the officer and pointing this out as more racially motivated police brutality. The sad thing is that if you changed the race of any of the two involved, these discussions probably wouldn't even be had.
But ultimately, this is the result of years and years of racism and bad policing in America, the trust is non existant, they've burned their bridges of 'benefit of doubt' and this is what you're left with.
I also feel really bad for the mother, the media have basically thrown her under a bus. Due to the circumstances of the whole thing they should have just left her alone.
Do American cops don't get tasers, surely a taser will stop a knife attacker.
I know that the girl was a bit thick but it was a dangerous shot. 9mm was designed to over penetrate and the person who was in danger of being stabbed could have been hit as well. That said, maybe this department uses 40 S&W, which has a reduced risk of that.
That's more concerning in this case. Opening fire in a crowded, uncontrolled situation like that was reckless. It's a tough call for the cop but going in guns blazing isn't a good look.
Agreed, It's a horrible situation to be in.
It's impossible to know just how the girl is feeling, if these people have turned up to her house to bully her, no wonder she is lashing out - but to grab a knife and start attacking somebody in front of a policeman is just asking for trouble.
As you say in those moments he doesn't know who is good or bad, he just sees somebody come flying out the house and attack 1 person, then run towards the other with a knife in hand.
I do think the fact he's shot her 5/6 times is very "overkill" - surely 1 to the leg, or even to the body IF necessary should do the job to then move on and restrain her and get medical assistance.
You really have to wonder what the hell the guy on the right is thinking too? kicking somebody in the head right next to a guy pointing a pistol at you. I just really don't understand people sometimes, he's lucky he didn't get shot too!
I don't know, I've seen loads of videos where tasers have been useless. But maybe ive just seen the videos where they are useless and not the ones where they work as intended. Sometimes I'm surprised as well about how long some can keep going despite having been shot a few times.
I would guess that she was pretty fecking terrified if she felt she had to defend herself with a knife. I doubt that she even knew the cops were there at that moment.
In a country with more guns that people, you'd not get many officers willing to step up without their own gun.
It appeared she escalated once the Police arrived, probably thought she could gain revenge with officers in attendance. All very sad and avoidable.
That’s really not how gunshots work in real life, unless you hit the CNS or pelvic girdle.
who said resisting arrest should result in death? I explained why a girl about to stab someone ended up getting shot. Look at all the rest of those thug wannabe’s saying the same. Ugh. Disgusting.
Obviously you haven’t read very well then.
Right, you see it in movies all the time. Serious gunshot wound and the hero is still kicking ass.
If a Police Officer is responding to this they don't know the backstory her history etc. She was the immediate threat, armed and dangerous. The whole situation is unfortunate but she was the one attacking other unarmed individuals. They only have split seconds to decide how to deescalate the situation while saving as many lives as possible . If they had hesitated she may have managed to fatally stab someone and they would have still had to shoot her. They had to eliminate the threat and decrease the amount of lives lost. Sadly the threat was a 15 year old. There are so may variables that needs to be considered before labelling anyone as wrong. We're talking adrenaline infused situations mixed with life or death decisions.
I don't think that cops are legally required to actually save lives. @Skizzo what's your knowledge on this? How are you instructed on dealing with this sort of situation.
We’re only LEGALLY required to protect the people we have in our care (prisoners, someone we may be transporting etc) or someone we created a special relationship with (traffic stops, disabled vehicles on the freeway in a bad spot etc)
I was commenting more on whether she knew the police were there. I don't think she did due to her state of mind.
Ok that sounds kinda hot.
Oh great so if someone is trying to chop my head off with an axe, you aren't legally required to help me! That's comforting. You can just sit and eat donuts.
I know. I was just pointing out how difficult it is for anyone to be aware of anything in situations like that.
AgreedOk that sounds kinda hot.
Nah don’t worry I’d try and taser them first or maybe tackle them and announce my presence. If that doesn’t stop them, maybe a well placed shot to the leg or shoulder area (or wherever else we *must* shoot in extreme circumstances). If it’s still an ongoing incident at that point, I’ll come check the caf for some well thought out responses. (Eating donuts while reading to save time of course) and see what they suggest.
All in all, I’d say you have a great chance of survival.
Down for that ridealong yet?Ok that sounds kinda hot.
Admit it, this is what your were thinking
On the back of your CHiPS motocycle, oh yesDown for that ridealong yet?
Feck that. I'll just call a social worker then to descalate the situation.