I still don't get how shot% ratio is important, surely time to gaol ratio is more important if you really want to break it down further.Can anyone find their respective goals to shot % ratio over the past few seasons? Think that could be a pretty damning statistic for Ronaldo despite their fairly even goals to game ratio.
Messi strikes me as a far more efficient player. When you look at all the chances Messi has laid on for his team mates over the years - only for them to miss - maybe if he was more selfish and goal-centric like Ronaldo he would have racked up more shots on goal and possibly even more goals than he has done. Which is incredible really.
Dribbling and shooting are two different things, how can they be compared?I still don't get how shot% ratio is important, surely time to gaol ratio is more important if you really want to break it down further.
If you take a very extreme case of someone who only ever shots when he gets a tap-in or a striker who shoots on sight and score much more, it's better to shoot on sight, no?
Now I'm not arguing Messi only gets tap-ins, but trying to dribble and losing the ball makes no difference from shooting from 30 yards and putting it off target.
Dribbling and gets tackled or shooting off target result in the same thing -> losing possession.Dribbling and shooting are two different things, how can they be compared?
I can see why you wouldn't be keen on that stat though because it's not going to reflect favourably on Ronaldo
Dribbling takes players out of the game. It opens up space for shots an passes. Messi usually has the most completed dribbles in Europe. Maybe not this season, but he did in something like the previous 5 seasons.Dribbling and gets tackled or shooting off target result in the same thing -> losing possession.
Ultimately it's goals that count and a Maradona against England dribble past 7 players goals only counts as much as the ball bouncing off your ass (in terms of the game).
By that logic, Barcelona should have scored lots more goals than Real Madrid. But the fact is Barca's goals are even more concentrated on Messi than Real's on Ronaldo.Dribbling takes players out of the game. It opens up space for shots an passes. Messi usually has the most completed dribbles in Europe. Maybe not this season, but he did in something like the previous 5 seasons.
It's hardly comparable to just blasting the ball at goal from 30 yards and seeing 1 in 50 fly in.
u wot m8.gifBut since Messi has A
But Ronaldo has D
u wot m8.gif
Both are like, awesome players. Simply the best players I have ever seen, since I was born in the 90s. Don't know much about the ones before, especially since football footage was so rare back then!
It's quite difficult to say who's better, Messi or Ronaldo. It certainly looks like Messi has more natural talent, but Ronaldo has been performing better. Well, it's kind of a circular argument, isn't it.
Messi is better because of A, B, C.
Ronaldo is better because of B, C, D.
But since Messi has A, Messi is better.
But Ronaldo has D, so Ronaldo is better.
But A is better than D. NOOO, D is better than A.
Well, screw you biatch. I don't think you're right, because D is obviously better than A.
NO! A is better than D.
And the process goes on.
That explains the rest of the post.Both are like, awesome players. Simply the best players I have ever seen, since I was born in the 90s. Don't know much about the ones before, especially since football footage was so rare back then!
It's quite difficult to say who's better, Messi or Ronaldo. It certainly looks like Messi has more natural talent, but Ronaldo has been performing better. Well, it's kind of a circular argument, isn't it.
Messi is better because of A, B, C.
Ronaldo is better because of B, C, D.
But since Messi has A, Messi is better.
But Ronaldo has D, so Ronaldo is better.
But A is better than D. NOOO, D is better than A.
Well, screw you biatch. I don't think you're right, because D is obviously better than A.
NO! A is better than D.
And the process goes on.
I did some research and some calculations in December, what I found:Can anyone find their respective goals to shot % ratio over the past few seasons? Think that could be a pretty damning statistic for Ronaldo despite their fairly even goals to game ratio.
Messi strikes me as a far more efficient player. When you look at all the chances Messi has laid on for his team mates over the years - only for them to miss - maybe if he was more selfish and goal-centric like Ronaldo he would have racked up more shots on goal and possibly even more goals than he has done. Which is incredible really.
in 2012/13 messi's goals per shot ratio was .28
ronaldo's was .144
pretty much messi was twice as effective.
this year cristiano's league conversion rate is 18 goals out of 123 shots.
that equates to .146
his cl rate this season is 9 goals from 35 shots, or .257. but he's only played 5 games, and that's only out of 35, so it's not really statistically significant. after the extent of 12 games in the cl last season his percentage levelled out to .148_ at 12 goals from 81 shots.
so he's always been around the .144 goals per shot conversion rate. not a bad rate, but you have the likes of van persie aguero etc at around .18 usually, then you say ibra is .2, and messi is typically .25 - .28
It's good of him to admit he is very young and has not extensively watched past greats in order to have an opinion. Most people who say Maradona was better than Messi or Cruyff better than Ronaldo have in all probability never, or watched very little of the past greats but pretend to be fully versed in the history of the game. What is certain, is that both Christiano and Messi have been delivering at a stupendous rate, that seems (statistics-wise at the very least) to far surpass almost all (if not all) of the past giants.That explains the rest of the post.
Lolz
Dribbling is a massively important skill. It commits men to the ball and frees up masses of space for teammates in an instant.Dribbling and gets tackled or shooting off target result in the same thing -> losing possession.
Ultimately it's goals that count and a Maradona against England dribble past 7 players goals only counts as much as the ball bouncing off your ass (in terms of the game).
Could someone do the stats for goals scored to minutes of team possession?Can anyone find their respective goals to shot % ratio over the past few seasons? Think that could be a pretty damning statistic for Ronaldo despite their fairly even goals to game ratio.
Messi strikes me as a far more efficient player. When you look at all the chances Messi has laid on for his team mates over the years - only for them to miss - maybe if he was more selfish and goal-centric like Ronaldo he would have racked up more shots on goal and possibly even more goals than he has done. Which is incredible really.
Ever since the start of the year 2014, Messi has been in amazing goalscoring form, scoring 26 goals and made 6 assists in 26 games.Hasn't Messi scored more goals since Ronaldo won the Balon D'or again?
Or has that changed in recent weeks? Certainly Ronnie went off the boil for a bit prior to his last injury scoring wise.
In terms of consistency and delivery, no one could ever match Messi or Ronaldo, just none.It's good of him to admit he is very young and has not extensively watched past greats in order to have an opinion. Most people who say Maradona was better than Messi or Cruyff better than Ronaldo have in all probability never, or watched very little of the past greats but pretend to be fully versed in the history of the game. What is certain, is that both Christiano and Messi have been delivering at a stupendous rate, that seems (statistics-wise at the very least) to far surpass almost all (if not all) of the past giants.
That's a bit rich, pardon the pun. Napoli of that period with limited resources? They spent a world record transfer fee on Maradona in 1984 (approx. 13.5 billion lire or £5M)In terms of consistency and delivery, no one could ever match Messi or Ronaldo, just none.
But then players like Maradona and Cruyff, they did reach the pinnacle of the game that no one could ever surpass ("Singled handedly" won the world cup and Serie A, best league ever, with a team under "limited" resource in perfect style, revolutionize the game with total football the world have never seen and influence the game no one could ever match etc)
None of the Messi fanbois will be too keen on that stat...Could someone do the stats for goals scored to minutes of team possession?
fanbois? and what are you? a true and unbias observer?None of the Messi fanbois will be too keen on that stat...
Did I ever say I'm unbiased?fanbois? and what are you? a true and unbias observer?
Probably not, and yet, all these other statistics keep popping up. I know stats show that Messi loses possession on the dribble more than almost anyone, and that seems fairly comparable to Ronaldo, who takes more shots. [People dwell on the Ronaldo stat, but not the Messi stat -- if there was someone scoring 10 goals a game because he never gave the ball away, I'm sure he'd be noticed too.]None of the Messi fanbois will be too keen on that stat...
Try goals per hissy fit/girly preen/petulant wankCould someone do the stats for goals scored to minutes of team possession?
It's not as simple as that. A team which usually plays with 75% possession is more likely to have a packed defense in front of them than the team wihch has 50% possession. That's just one confounding variable.It seems that Messi, who's on a team with typically 75% possession (it's a guess at that number) would have many more chances than a team with 50% possession (made that number up too).
I'd like to know if someone's ever quantified the advantage Messi has in this regard.
Are we talking for posters or players here? I think the Messi fans definitely have the hissy fit corner mastered. I can't say for preening or wanking...Try goals per hissy fit/girly preen/petulant wank
That's the clear message here, some people go on and on about how dribbling retains possession and shooting does not yet fail to account for failed dribbles.Probably not, and yet, all these other statistics keep popping up. I know stats show that Messi loses possession on the dribble more than almost anyone, and that seems fairly comparable to Ronaldo, who takes more shots. [People dwell on the Ronaldo stat, but not the Messi stat -- if there was someone scoring 10 goals a game because he never gave the ball away, I'm sure he'd be noticed too.]
It seems that Messi, who's on a team with typically 75% possession (it's a guess at that number) would have many more chances than a team with 50% possession (made that number up too).
I'd like to know if someone's ever quantified the advantage Messi has in this regard.
Well, those people are Messi fanboys so what do you expect?That's the clear message here, some people go on and on about how dribbling retains possession and shooting does not yet fail to account for failed dribbles.
That's a fair point and I also agree with another poster's view about how Messi's unsuccessful dribbles are comparable to Ronaldo's unsuccessful shots. I'm not a Messi fan boy but I do rate him as the better of the two and I guess that really does come down to personal preference at this point. These two could possibly go down as the two GOAT. They're both remarkable professionals and will be idolised by generations to come.They're like the yin and yang of football from an attacking sense and all future greats will be compared to these two, not pele nor maradona.Could someone do the stats for goals scored to minutes of team possession?
No. The all time trophy is between Pele, Maradona and Messi. Ronaldo has to fight his corner against Di Stefano, Cruyff, Platini, Ronfataldo etc..all future greats will be compared to these two, not pele nor maradona.
I would consider di Stefano to be higher than Ronaldo. Imo the only reason di Stefano is not considered to be alongside maradona and pele is because he never got to play at a world cup due to being not being eligible for two and also getting injured before another. The closest he came to playing in one was when he represented spain but in the end they did not qualify. Its hard to think of many players that had a better career than him and I have read interviews where both pele and maradona have called him the best. Im not saying he was the best ever as that is impossible to say but he would have to be ranked higher than Ronaldo imo and not far off pele and maradona, maybe messi too. He is not out of place being mentioned alongside pele and maradona imo.No. The all time trophy is between Pele, Maradona and Messi. Ronaldo has to fight his corner against Di Stefano, Cruyff, Platini, Ronfataldo etc
It gets difficult when you cross TV generations. There's a fair amount t of footage of Pele, practically none of di Stefano, grainy shit of Maradona, Beckenbaur et al, and full every fart in sensaround of modern players. Ronxaldo is definitely tier II IMO.I would consider di Stefano to be higher than Ronaldo.